The Messy Middle Matters podcast shines a much-needed spotlight on what it takes to work in, survive in, and even thrive in the messy middle.
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Hey! I’m your host Cassie Covey. In this podcast we talk about everything faith, family, and fitness. We’re going in those uncharted territories of the messy middle. The part of it all that we wanna skip over because it takes work, the boring yet necessary work we don’t wanna do. Let’s go there…let’s do this!
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What happens when two moms—who’ve never met in real life—slide into each other’s DMs and build a soul-deep friendship rooted in faith, honesty, and a shared heart for helping other moms? This podcast. From late-night prayers to early-morning carpool runs… from perimenopause to parenting adult children—we’re diving into the conversations no one’s having, but everyone’s living. This space is for the moms doing too much with too little. For the women who love fiercely, lead with heart, and are ...
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The Messy Middle Isn’t a Detour. It’s Your Pathway to Thriving! This podcast is for women leaders who are holding it all together, but know deep down, there’s more. Hosted by leadership coach and former media executive Amy Wilkins, this is your weekly exhale and power-up. It’s for the ambitious, big-hearted leaders navigating change, craving clarity, and ready to rise—even when it’s messy. Thriving isn’t about perfection. It’s about alignment over achievement, peace over proving, and growth ...
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Business is a freakin’ roller coaster and Messy in the Middle is here to take you along for the ride. Join your host Haley Johnson from Propegy as she and her guests navigate the uncomfortable, unfamiliar, and sometimes unmanageable parts of running a growing online business. From hiring and team support to finances and accounting, to just wanting to cry sometimes – not enough people are talking about the messy middle of life and business (so that’s what we’re gonna do here).
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Ep 27: Incentives, Outputs, and Organizational Disconnects
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27:10In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack a workplace tension that’s all too familiar: what happens when incentives, outputs, and motivation aren’t aligned. They begin by defining key terms: intrinsic incentives (such as purpose or pride), extrinsic incentives (like pay or praise), and outputs (the tangible results of one…
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Episode 18: Hormonal Balance, Wellness Tips, and the Balance Your Body Method
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33:23In this episode of Motherhood in the Messy Middle, hosts Robin and Nicole explore the real challenges women face in midlife—hormonal imbalances, weight changes, and the pursuit of overall wellness. Through personal stories and practical advice, Robin introduces her Balance Your Body Method, a holistic approach combining meditation, mindset, movemen…
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Ep 26: Career Growth vs. Team Cohesion
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18:52Belonging to a team can be deeply fulfilling, but what happens when that sense of loyalty starts to conflict with your growth in your craft? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the tension between short-term team alignment and long-term career development. They explore what it means to be loyal to your project team, your department, or your cr…
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Episode 17: The Mental Load of Travel: Why Family Trips Feel Like Full-Time Jobs
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27:17In this episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, Robin and Nicole dive into the complexities of planning family travel. They discuss how managing trips can feel as challenging as running a small business, from logistics and schedules to managing meltdowns and emotions. The hosts share personal stories and practical tips on how to prepare mentall…
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Ep 25: When Everything is a Top Priority
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31:12Why does everything feel urgent all the time — and what does it cost us? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the toll of poor prioritization on teams, leaders, and organizations. From the illusion of decision-making to the chaos of shifting priorities, they explore the mental and operational burnout that comes when no one says no. They offer p…
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Episode 16: Navigating the Emotional Weight of Back to School
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27:58In this episode of 'Motherhood and The Messy Middle,' Robin and Nicole explore the emotional complexities of the back-to-school season. They discuss the mix of excitement and anxiety that accompanies sending children back to school, varying parenting styles, and the logistical challenges involved. They delve into the different ways families handle …
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Ep 24: Seniority as a Euphemism
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17:58What do people mean when they say someone is “too senior”? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the layered, often coded ways the word "senior" is used in hiring and professional contexts. From recruiter conversations to team dynamics, the term is frequently a stand-in for other qualities—such as executive presence, high salary expectations, an…
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Episode 15: Surviving the Summer Sizzle: Strategies for Moms
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27:01In this episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, hosts Robin and Nicole discuss the challenges moms face during summer when routines collapse, and the home is always bustling with kids. Sharing personal anecdotes, they explore strategies for managing sensory overload, creating small structured routines, and setting realistic expectations to main…
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Episode 14: Navigating Estrangement: A Journey of Heartbreak and Hope - Part 2
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27:39In this episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, Robin and Nicole continue their deep dive into the complexities of estrangement. They discuss the emotional layers, offer compassionate support, and share small steps forward for those experiencing distance or silence with their children. Nicole opens up about her personal journey, emphasizing the…
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Ep 23: What to Do When There’s Nowhere Left to Grow
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25:02What do you do when a talented team member has outgrown what your organization can offer? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the rarely discussed topic of supporting team members who are ready to move on, not because they've failed, but because they’ve grown. From recognizing career ceilings to embracing talent mob…
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Episode 13: Navigating Estrangement: A Journey of Heartbreak and Hope - Part 1
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28:39In this vulnerable conversation, Nicole opens up about her personal journey of navigating the heartbreaking estrangement from her oldest daughter. Together, they explore what estrangement really means, the emotional toll it takes—not just on moms, but on the entire family and the spiritual lessons God continues to teach in the midst of deep grief. …
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Episode 12: Why Do Family Gatherings Feel So Complicated?
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33:15⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode includes discussion of domestic violence and the loss of a parent. Please take care while listening. If these topics are sensitive or activating for you, feel free to skip this one or listen when you feel emotionally safe. In this episode of 'Motherhood and the Messy Middle', Robin and Nicole explore the complex emo…
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Ep 22: Why Hire Smart People if You Won't Let Them Think
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26:04In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into a frustrating contradiction many professionals have experienced: the same companies that go out of their way to hire the brightest minds often turn around and disempower them the moment they arrive. From micromanagement to fear-based leadership, they examine the organizational …
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Episode 11: Ever feel like you’re meant for something bigger?
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23:13Embracing More: Navigating Gratitude and Desire in Motherhood and Midlife In this heartfelt episode of 'Motherhood and the Messy Middle,' Robin and Nicole tackle the complex interplay between gratitude and the desire for more in the journey of motherhood and midlife. They explore the societal pressures on women to remain content and avoid 'taking u…
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Episode 10: My Pants Don’t Fit and I Might Cry — Navigating the Body Shifts No One Warned Us About
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24:09Perimenopause, mood swings, weight gain, and unexpected chin hairs—welcome to the midlife plot twist no one warned us about. In this honest and hilarious convo, Nicole and Robin unpack the physical and emotional shifts of perimenopause and menopause, from body image to hormone havoc. You’re not alone—and you’re not losing your mind. Probably. 😉 💛 G…
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Ep 21: Rockstars, Unicorns, and Other Hiring Myths
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27:02In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee explore the language used in hiring, specifically the overused and often problematic terms “rockstar” and “unicorn.” They unpack how these labels, while meant to signal excellence, can set unrealistic expectations and perpetuate individualism over collaboration. Along th…
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Episode 9: Holding Space – What It Really Means and Why It’s So Hard to Do
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24:48You’ve heard the phrase “holding space”… but what does it actually look like in the chaos of motherhood, midlife, and messy emotions? In this episode, we’re diving deep into the powerful, misunderstood, and often uncomfortable practice of holding space—for our kids, our friends, and ourselves. Holding space means showing up with presence, not press…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 14: One Cookie Didn’t Ruin Your Progress Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today’s episode is for the woman who ate the cookie… and immediately thought: “Well… I blew it.” If you've ever let one snack, one “off-plan” meal, one skippe…
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You’re Not Addicted to Food — You’re Disconnected: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 13)
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 13: You’re Not Addicted to Food — You’re Disconnected Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today’s conversation is for the woman who feels like she’s constantly “failing” with food. If you’ve ever wondered… → “Am I addicted to food?” → …
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Eating in Secret — and the Weight of Being Everything to Everyone: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 12)
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 12: Eating in Secret — and the Weight of Being Everything to Everyone Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today’s episode is for the woman who hides when she eats. The woman who sneaks into the pantry, the car, or the laundry room… not…
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When Your Cravings Are Telling You Something: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 11)
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 11: When Your Cravings Are Telling You Something Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today we’re diving into something that every woman has dealt with at some point — cravings. And not just the craving itself — but the guilt, confusion…
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How the “Good Girl” Diet Warps Your Self-Worth: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 10)
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 10: How the “Good Girl” Diet Warps Your Self-Worth Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. If you’ve ever been praised for your discipline… Applauded for skipping dessert… Or admired for your ability to always say no… But no one ever stopp…
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Episode 8: Why Is Friendship So Hard in Midlife?
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31:21Friendship wasn’t supposed to be this complicated. But somewhere between school drop-offs, emotional overload, and trying to keep up with everyone's needs… it’s easy for friendships to fall to the bottom of your never-ending to-do list. In this heart-opening episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we dive into the real talk about why making—and…
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Guilt After Eating — Even When You’re Not Full: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 9)
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 9: Guilt After Eating — Even When You’re Not Full Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Have you ever eaten something small — maybe a sandwich, a snack, or just a regular meal — and immediately felt like you messed up? You weren’t stuffe…
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When Tracking Becomes a Burden: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 8)
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12:03You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 8: When Tracking Becomes a Burden Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today’s episode is for the woman who’s burned out from tracking. Maybe it started as a tool. A way to stay on track, learn your portions, or feel more in control. Bu…
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Ep 20: More Than a Resume: Building Your Digital Presence
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33:33In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee delve into the evolving landscape of personal branding, beginning with the notion that LinkedIn is no longer just a digital resume. From resharing posts to publishing thought leadership, today’s professionals are expected to build a visible, credible presence that extend…
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Episode 7: Grieving the Past While Embracing the Present
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25:39Do you miss a season that’s already slipped away-when your kids were smaller, life was slower, or you felt more like you? In this tender episode, we talk about the bittersweet ache of motherhood transitions and how to hold space for both grief and gratitude. Nicole shares what it’s like to parent four kids across four life stages, and Robin reflect…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 7: It’s Not Willpower — It’s Your Lifestyle Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today we’re talking about something I know you’ve felt before: You start strong. You’re committed. You’re doing everything “right.” And then… your habits f…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 6: The Monday Reset Shame Loop Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. If you’ve ever said the words, “Okay… I’ll start again Monday,” then this episode is for you. We’re talking about a cycle that so many of us know — and silently hate: T…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 5: You’re Not Lazy — You’re Running on Empty Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today, we’re having a conversation you probably need more than another workout tip or food rule. If you’ve ever called yourself lazy, unmotivated, inconsi…
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Welcome to Thriving in the Messy Middle — the podcast that champions the courage, clarity, and creativity it takes to navigate life’s in-between moments. Hosted by Amy Wilkins, each episode explores what it means to show up fully in the middle of transitions, transformations, and the tension between what was and what’s next. Whether you’re reimagin…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 4: When You Don’t Know How to Eat Anymore Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today, I want to talk to the woman who stands in front of the fridge and thinks… “I don’t even know what I’m supposed to eat anymore.” After years of trackin…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 3: Fear of Carbs, and the Beliefs That Fuel It Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today we’re diving into a food group that so many women fear — but secretly crave. Carbs. Bread. Pasta. Rice. Bagels. Cereal. Potatoes. If you’ve ever f…
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Episode 6: Reclaiming Your Spirit in the Chaos of Motherhood
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24:22Motherhood has a way of pulling us in every direction-except inward. In this episode, we’re talking about what it looks like to reclaim your spirit when life feels messy, loud, and exhausting. Because what sustains us in the thick of midlife and motherhood isn’t just strategy, structure, or even sleep-it’s soul. Robin and Nicole unpack the power of…
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Emotional Eating Isn’t What You Think: (Breaking Free: 14 Days to Food Peace - EP. 2)
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15:32You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 2: Emotional Eating Isn’t What You Think Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today’s episode is one I know will hit home for so many of you. We’re talking about something that most of us have done… but almost none of us talk about with…
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Ep 19: The Craft of Meeting Notes
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33:15Taking notes isn’t always busywork; it can be a power move. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the underrated but essential skill of effective note-taking in the workplace. They reflect on how their own approach has evolved from admin duty to strategic tool and explore why the person writing the notes often holds more influence than you think…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 1: Breaking the Weekend Binge Loop Are you tired of starting over, afraid of food, and ready to feel like themselves again? I’m so glad you’re here. Today we’re diving into something I know so many of us have said… “I’m so good during the week… but I always blow it on the weekend.” If you’ve ever felt that — thi…
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Episode 5: Mental Health in Motherhood—When It’s You, When It’s Your Child
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30:23What do you do when your mental health is struggling—and so is your child’s? In this vulnerable and powerful episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we’re talking about what it means to parent through anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, and recovery—while navigating your own emotional challenges at the same time. We explore: 💛 Mothering through…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 14: Your Body is Not the Enemy—It’s the Starting Point I spent years treating my body like it was the problem. The obstacle. The thing standing between me and the life I wanted. And if you’ve felt that too? If you’ve looked in the mirror and thought, "If I could just fix this body, everything would be better…" T…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 13: No Gym? No Problem I once believed I needed a fancy gym, the perfect program, and the right equipment to finally get it together. But what I learned? Changed everything. You don’t need the gym. You don’t need equipment. You don’t need more time. You need permission to begin where you are. And today, I’m givi…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 12: You Don’t Need Motivation—You Need Momentum I used to wait around for motivation like it was a magic switch. I’d scroll, I’d plan, I’d think about starting… but the moment never came. The feeling never hit. Until one day, I realized: You don’t need motivation. You need momentum. If you’ve been stuck in the “…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 11: Cardio or Strength? Stop Overthinking It If the confusion around where to start is paralyzing you from starting at all—this episode is for you. We’re going to break down: What each one does for your body, How to choose based on your energy and lifestyle, And why the best workout isn’t the one that looks best…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 10: It’s Not Just a Workout—It’s a Comeback If you’ve ever had to start over more times than you can count....This episode is for you. Today we’re talking about that very real, very raw moment that so many women avoid because of fear, shame, or perfectionism: The first workout after a long break. Welcome to Stro…
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Episode 4: When Your Child’s Path Looks Different Than You Expected
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19:35What happens when your child’s life path, diagnosis, or identity doesn’t match the future you dreamed of? In this honest, episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we talk about what it’s like to parent a child whose journey—because of neurodivergence, mental health, or other challenges—looks different than expected. Whether you’re raising a chil…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 9: Movement as Self-Respect, Not Punishment If you’ve ever: Worked out to earn food Exercised to undo a “bad” weekend Pushed through pain because you felt like you deserved it... This episode is for you. Today we’re talking about something deeper than sets and reps. We’re talking about healing your relationship …
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Ep 18: The Meeting About the Meeting About the Meeting
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33:06We've all been there—staring at a calendar invite with a cryptic title and no context, then spending the meeting trying to figure out why you're even there. In this episode, Indra and Amanda tackle the all-too-familiar plague of purposeless meetings. From weekly leadership check-ins to post-meeting debriefs about the next meeting, they unpack the h…
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How to build a workout routine when you’re already burnt out: (Stronger Than You Think - EP. 8)
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10:28You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 8: How to Build a Workout Routine When You’re Already Burnt Out If you’re listening to this today thinking, “I want to move my body, I want to feel better… but honestly? I’m just too damn tired." This episode is for you. Because what you need isn’t another rigid plan. It’s permission to build something flexible.…
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Episode 2: Motherhood Isn’t Just About Raising Kids-It’s About Raising Ourselves
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16:37What if motherhood was never just about them… but also about you? In this episode, we open up about stepparenting, infertility, trauma, healing, and the unexpected ways motherhood transforms us. From living room wrestling matches to late-night tears, we're naming the real stuff—and the growth it brings. For the mom navigating big feelings, growing …
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Episode 3: The Messy Middle: Why the In-Between Is Sacred
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16:58What if the space between who you were and who you’re becoming isn’t a problem to fix—but a place to grow? In this heart-level conversation, we dive into identity, perimenopause, parenting tweens/teens, and the holy tension of the "middle." It’s raw, real, and redefining. For every mom navigating grief, growth, or just straight-up chaos… you’re not…
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You DON'T want to miss this! Episode 7: The Truth About Lifting Weights and ‘Getting Bulky' If you've ever thought that lifting weights would make me bulky, masculine, or “too much.” Spoiler alert: It won't Today we’re going to bust one of the most damaging myths still floating around the fitness world: The fear that lifting weights will make you b…
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