Why we need Ladybird (Interview)

The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source

Andreas Kling and Chris Wanstrath have joined forces to form a non-profit called Ladybird Browser Initiative to manage the newly forked Ladybird browser. We discuss what it’s going to take to get to alpha, the why behind Ladybird, avoiding incentives other than those of the users, their plans for incremental adoption of Swift as the successor language over C++, and of course what they hope Ladybird can achieve as a truly independent open source browser that’s for the people.

Join the discussion

Changelog++ members get a bonus 4 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!

Sponsors:

• Sentry – Code breaks, fix it faster. Don’t just observe. Take action. Sentry is the only app monitoring platform built for developers that gets to the root cause for every issue. 100,000+ growing teams use sentry to find problems fast. Use the code CHANGELOG when you sign up to get $100 OFF the team plan.
• Paragon – Ship native integrations to production in days with more than 130 pre-built connectors, or configure your own custom integrations. Built for product and engineering. Learn more at useparagon.com/changelog
• 1Password – Build securely with 1Password - 1Password simplifies how you securely use, manage, and integrate developer credentials. Manage SSH keys and sign Git commits. Access secrets stored in 1Password. Automate administrative tasks. Integrate with third-party tools. Also, check out our INFRASTRUCTURE.md file for more details on how we do secrets with 1Password.
• Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.

Featuring:

• Andreas Kling – Twitter, GitHub, Website
• Chris Wanstrath – Twitter, GitHub, Website
• Adam Stacoviak – Mastodon, Twitter, GitHub, LinkedIn, Website
• Jerod Santo – Mastodon, Twitter, GitHub, LinkedIn

Show Notes:

• Ladybird announcement (from Chris Wanstrath)
• Ladybird.org
• Ladybird Browser (on GitHub)
• The Changelog #10: All things GitHub with Chris Wanstrath
• Changelog Interviews #554: The serenity of building your own OS with Andreas Kling
• Swift.org
• Crafting Interpreters by Robert Nystrom (book)
• Click (2006) Official Trailer (from Adam Sandler)
• Plug: Void.dev
• Plug: Andreas Kling on YouTube
• Plug: Cozy lofi from Katalin Kult (ghost whiskers)

Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Fejezetek

1. Welcome to The Changelog (00:00:00)

2. Sponsor: Sentry (00:01:26)

https://sentry.io/

3. Starting with OG shirt nostalgia (00:04:51)

4. Back to talk about Ladybird (00:05:57)

5. How Andreas and Chris met (00:09:04)

6. The summer of 2026 (00:14:18)

7. Will the web change? (00:16:13)

8. Why climb the mountain? (00:17:14)

9. Two years is not a long time (00:19:03)

10. What about mobile? (00:22:20)

11. Where can the roadmap go? (00:24:20)

12. From SerenityOS to Linux and Mac (00:26:04)

13. Sponsor: Paragon (00:29:14)

https://www.useparagon.com/changelog

14. Making use of 3rd party libraries (00:32:53)

15. Language evaluation (Swift) (00:36:23)

16. The right lang for the job (00:40:09)

17. How Apple tethered is Swift? (00:41:15)

18. Making the right lang choice (00:44:51)

19. Are you treading water? (00:48:18)

20. Supporting Ladybird (00:49:57)

21. Who can use it today? (00:51:53)

22. Build instructions (00:53:15)

23. Ladybird is meaningful to Chris (00:55:08)

24. GitHub PTSD (00:56:17)

25. Write code and make video games (01:01:17)

26. Chris' anonymous GitHub profile (01:02:44)

27. Chris on coding for Ladybird (01:03:52)

28. Making a serious browser (01:04:47)

29. What is your Alpha? (01:06:17)

30. Sponsor: 1Password (01:11:06)

https://1password.com/changelogpod

31. Click! Ladybird in the future. (01:14:12)

32. Room for privacy features (01:19:31)

33. "Help us build Ladybird" (01:27:24)

34. GitHub x Braintree (01:29:07)

35. Donate and sponsor (01:31:15)

36. Plug: void.dev (01:32:02)

https://void.dev

37. Plug: Cozy lofi from Katalin Kult (01:32:29)

38. Andreas Kling on YouTube (01:33:20)

39. Wrapping up (01:34:30)

40. Closing thoughts and stuff (01:34:57)

41. ++ Teaser (01:37:01)

42. Cozy lofi from Katalin Kult (01:38:45)