Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135 ...
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Episode 756: Hannah Russell, Asexual Latter-day Saint
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My friend Hannah Russell (married mother of three, PhD, lives in Cincinnati, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to share her story of being asexual out of a desire to help others not feel alone. Hannah starts realizing she is different and falsely concluding “I am not a divine child of Heavenly Parents” because I don’t have any sexual interest. Hann…
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Episode 755: Kate Kendrick and her non-binary child Morgan
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My friends Kate Kendrick (she/her) and her non-binary child Morgan (they/them) join us to share their story. Kate, who is no longer active LDS, joins us to talk about her journey to become an LGBTQ ally and then fully love and accept her sixteen-year-old non-binary/pansexual child who goes by the pseudonym "Morgan." (who is age 16). It is a beautif…
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Episode 754: David Ostler “Healing our Divides: Answering the Savior’s Call to be Peacemakers.”
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My good brother David (author of “Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question”) joins us to talk about his new book which gives readers a gospel-based framework and tools to navigate the increasingly polarized and contentious landscape of modern society. In the podcast, David talks about why he wrote the book, who is the audience, and how he hopes i…
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Episode 753: Arthur Wiseman, Recently Returned Gay LDS Missionary
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My friend Arthur Wiseman (who returned from his successful mission in Gilbert Arizona in Dec of 2023, plans to become a therapist, and returned to live in Arizona) shares his mission experience. Arthur (who knew he was gay since age 6 and planned to tell no one) shares what it was like starting his mission and feeling spiritual promptings (many tim…
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Episode 752: Kyle Jones, M.D., Author
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** This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**Guest host Tonya Miller interviews Kyle Jones, M.D., who talks about his most recent book, “When All Hope Seems Lost: A Gospel Perspective on Mental Illness in Youth,” which will be released later this month. Kyle is a Family Practice physician who works primarily wit…
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Episode 751: Jashon Fabia, Author: “Swirling in the Eddy: LDS, Filipino, & Gay”
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My friend Jashon Ray Fabia (Age 33, single, LDS, RM, BYU-H grad in Psychology and Music, finishing Master's in Music Therapy) bravely shares his story as a queer Filipino Latter-day Saint (our first guest from the Philippines) and his new book (see show notes). Jashon shares the shame he felt which continued until he came out to himself in his mid-…
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Episode 750: Erik Thompson, Gay Latter-day Saint, Overcoming Addiction, Finding Hope in Christ
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**This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988** My friend Erik Thompson (Age 40, single, active LDS, RM) bravely shares his story with a heart full of desire to give others hope. Erik vulnerable and bravely talks about: Being a survivor of sexual abuse at age 13.Spiritual OCD (Scrupulosity).Porn and masturbatio…
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Episode 749: Cameo & Cooper Johnson, LDS Parents of a Queer Daughter
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My friends Cameo and Cooper Johnson (LDS parents of 4 children, live in Flagstaff AZ, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioners) join us to share their story from the perspective of both LDS parents of a queer daughter (RM, engaged to another RM woman) and their professional work specializing in supporting LDS LGBTQ individuals and families. In…
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Episode 748: Nate Miller, Gay, Age 26
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My friend Nate Miller (grew up in Davis County, lives in Salt Lake County, Philippines RM, U of U graduation, no longer attending church) joins us to share his story. Nate starts with reading a powerful journal entry/letter during his mission that shares his journey (since age 6) of navigating being different and eventually realizing he is gay. Nat…
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Episode 747: James Smart, Gay Latter-day Saint, Recent RM, BYU Student
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My friend James Smart (RM, age 20, from Rexburg Idaho, Santa Rosa CA missionary, at BYU) joins us to bravely share his story. James starts with reading his powerful and well-written coming out post sharing his story growing up knowing he was different, dealing with shame and associated coping mechanisms, deciding to serve a mission, and finding gre…
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Episode 746: Cameron Staley, Ph.D. – New Book “Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher.”
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This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Dr. Cameron Staley, Ph.D., who talks about his most recent book: “Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher.” Cameron is a clinical psyc…
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Episode 745: Jacob Guy, Gay Latter-day Saint, New Book: “The Scorpion Unit”
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**Warning: This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Jacob Guy (RM, age 23, Senior at Weber State, shared his story on Episode 613) joins us to talk about his new book “The Scorpion Unit” a story that Jacob hopes will help people considering suicide. In the podcast, Jacob talks about why he wrote t…
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Episode 744: Stacie Proctor, Survivor of Mental Health-Related Trauma.
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This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Stacie Proctor, who joins us to talk about her life as a mom, wife, business executive, and active member of the Church, who also l…
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Episode 743: Dale Schafer, Convert, RM, Same-Sex Marriage, Deep Testimony of the Church/God
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My friend Dale Schafer (California Convert, Adelaide Australia ’79-81 RM, Twice Excommunicated, Lives with his husband in Hudson Valley, NY) joins us to share his story his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. Dale starts with his childhood of feeling like an outcast/not belonging because of his sexual attraction to men. Dale talks about his conversatio…
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Episode 742: Scott Grover, Gay British Latter-day Saint, Left Church for 18 Years, Returned
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My friend Scott Gover (late 40’s, lives north of London, left church in his 20’s, returned 18 years later, active for last 11 years) joins us to share his story. Scott starts with his growing up years having a deep testimony of the Church and also realizing his was gay. After many unanswered prayers to change his sexual orientation, Scott concluded…
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Episode 741: John Gustav-Wrathall, Same-Sex Marriage, Believes In and Attends Church
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This episode is guest-hosted by my friend Steven Kapp Perry from the “In Good Faith” podcast. He interviews John Gustav-Wrathall (a dear friend and mentor) who appeared in an early episode—Episode 49—which we’ll link to below. John shares some of his earliest spiritual experiences, which gave him a solid faith in God, and then describes his journey…
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Episode 740: Jacob Troxel, Recently Retuned Gay Missionary
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My friend Jacob Troxel (who recorded this podcast three weeks after his successful mission in Canada Edmonton) joins us to bravely share his experiences as a gay Latter-day Saint and one of the first openly gay missionaries in the Church (which is noted on his Facebook profile). Jacob (who grew up in Camarillo) talks about realizing he might be dif…
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Episode 739: Lindsey Sais, Same-Sex Marriage, Believe in Savior/Church, Overcoming Addition
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My friend Lindsey Sais joins us to share her powerful story. Lindsey (early 40s, married for 5 years to her wife Connie, lives in Raleigh NC) joins us to bravely share her story of being divorced at age 23, coming out as gay that same year, working through addiction, being an ex-felon, and suicidal ideation. Lindsey talks about how addiction is not…
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Episode 738: Josh and Jen Rollins, LDS Parents of 3 LGBTQ children
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My friends Josh and Jen Rollins (married for 26 years, parents of 5, live in Riverton Utah, active LDS) share their story of their middle child Aiden coming out as gay, then their oldest children Jace coming out as gay and later transgender, and then their second-oldest Chelsea coming out as bisexual. Josh (who was serving as Bishop during much of …
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Episode 737: Lily Prisbrey, Powerful Missionary Homecoming Talk
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My friend Lily Prisbrey—who recently returned from both a proselyting mission (Philippines) and a service mission (Utah). She joins us to give her farewell talk. In this talk, Lily bravely talks about:Her journey with scrupulosity and faith-related guilt.Finding a loving, accepting, and NOT “ever-disappointed” God.Finding God in the Filipino people…
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Episode 736: Zak Hazlett, The Outdoor Therapist
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My friend Zak Hazlett (Masters Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from BYU) joins us from his home in Moab, Utah to talk about his life mission to bring more kindness, love, understanding into our community. Zak (who grew up running rivers in Southern Utah) talks about merging this love of the outdoors and his desire to help others into a career…
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Episode 735: Ben Schilaty
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Our friend Ben Schilaty (who recently turned 40 and is co-host with Charlie Bird on the Questions from the Closet podcast) joins us to talk about his decision to date men, his commitment to our Church and the gospel of Jesus Christ, his decision to leave BYU (on good terms) and start his career as a therapist (Ben has a Masters in this field) focus…
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Episode 734: Sam & Jen Norton, London FSY Directors, New Book “Come as You Are,"
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My British friends Sam and Jen Norton (married parents of four, living near London England) join us to talk about their work to help younger Latter-day Saints feel welcome, needed and that they belong—allowing them to bring their individuality to help build Zion and access the Atonement of Jesus Christ to bring healing to themselves and others. Sam…
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Episode 733: Kurt Francom, New Book “Is God Disappointed In Me?”
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My friend Kurt Francom (founder and executive director of Leading Saints) joins us to talk about his new book called “Is God Disappointed In Me? Removing Shame From A Gospel of Grace”. In the podcast, Kurt (who has done 100s and 100s of interviews with local Latter-day Saint leaders) talks about why he wrote the book, the need for this type of book…
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Episode 732: Camille McConnell, Son Died in a Choking Accident, New Book to Bring Hope
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My friend Camille McConnell (married LDS mother of 5 who was on episode 292) joins us to talk about her new book called “Let the Angels Carry You: Coping & Connecting When Loved Ones Pass On." In the podcast, Camille talks about how to connect with our loved ones who have died and have them be part of our lives. She also talks about how to find hop…
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Episode 731: Richard Ostler Solo, Allegory of the Olive Tree, Personal Update, 2024 Podcast Focus
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*** Trigger Warning: This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 *** In this solo episode, I talk about the focus of the podcast going forward, the Allegory of the Olive Tree/Vineyard (Jacob 5) and how it applies to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, and a personal update. Thank you for all your support of our podcast. L…
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Episode 730: Jana Spangler, Stages of Faith
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My friend Jana Spangler (Certified Integral Profession Coach at Symmetry Solutions, alumnus of The Living School, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about stages of faith using Brian McLaren’s 4-stage model of simplicity, complexity, perplexity, and harmony. This is a powerful model to understand the various roads Latter-day Saints are walking. Jan…
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Episode 729: Adam, Conversion/Electroshock Therapy Survivor, Same-Sex Marriage, Active Non-member
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**Trigger Warning: This episode talks about electroshock therapy and suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Adam joins us to share his story of coming out in the early 90’s in a church where we generally believed that “something had gone wrong” with someone having same-sex attraction that could be identified and then ‘f…
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Episode 728: Ben and Rebecca Lesue, Parents of a Queer Child, Faith Journey to Stay in the Church
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My friend Ben and Rebecca Lesue (parents of nine, recently moved from SW Missouri to Monument Valley Utah, non-binary/queer child) join us to share their story. They start with their journey to understand LGBTQ Latter-day Saints following Rebecca’s brother coming out as gay. They then share the story of their own child coming out as queer/non-binar…
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Episode 727: Clare Dalton, Curriculum Curator for Gatherings
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My friend Clare Dalton (who shared her story as a gay Latter-day Saint on episode 583) joins us to announce the exciting news of a companion curriculum from Gather and Lift+Love to help LGBTQ+ individuals and families see themselves in the 2024 Come, Follow Me study of the Book of Mormon. Clare talks about the accessibility of this program (which i…
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Episode 726: Liz and Ryan Giles, Two Gay Women, Same-Sex Marriage, Attending Church
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My friends Liz Giles (from Yakima Washington, RM, BYU Grad) and Ryan Giles (from South Jordan Utah, RM, BYU Grad) join us to share their story. Liz and Ryan start with becoming friends at BYU, accidentally falling in love, and then* figuring out their sexualities. Ryan states, “You don’t fall in love with a girl unless you are wired for girls.” Liz…
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Episode 725: Andrew Davis, SSA Latter-day Saint, Host of Podcast “Sons of God”
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My friend Andrew Davis (age 31, self-employed, active LDS, same-sex attraction, podcast host) joins us to bravely share his story. Andrew (who is a son of my awesome mission companion Jamison Davis) courageously talks about his growing up years navigating his attraction to men, porn use, anxiety, and fear—and his prayers for this all to be taken fr…
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Episode 724: Jessy Markowitz, LDS Convert, Sexual Assault Survivor, Finding Healing
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** Trigger Warning: This podcast discusses suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My brave friend Jessy Markowitz joins us from Las Vegas to share her story. Jessy starts with the realities of her life resulting in immense pain and, at times, loss of hope. Jessy talks about her father’s death at age 4, being sexually assaulted, …
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Episode 723: Dallin Patton, Gay Latter-Day Saint, Mid-20s, Utah State University
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My friend Dallin Patton (from Tucson, Kansas Wichita Mission RM, Senior in Social Work at Utah State University) joins us to bravely share his story. Dallin discusses the years before his mission (navigating his identity, some conversion therapy, and mostly putting it in a “box at the back of his head”). These were difficult years for Dallin. Dalli…
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Episode 722: Margaret Olsen Hemming & Fatimah Salleh: Book of Mormon for the Least of These, Vol. 3
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My friends Margaret Olsen Hemming and Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (who was on Episode 710) join us to talk about their latest (and final) volume of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These, Volume 3: Helaman-Moroni.” Margaret and Fatimah share some of the behind-the-scenes story of working together to write these books, their personal journeys with t…
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Episode 721: Sofia Jones, Convert, Lesbian, Asexual
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My friend Sofia Jones (from Bakersfield California, joined Church in March 2021, mid-20s) join us to share her story. Sofia (who grew up Christian) talks about changing her initial assumptions about Latter-day Saints and being willing to meet with the missionaries, read the Book of Mormon, and be baptized. It is a beautiful conversation story with …
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Episode 720: Dr. Heidi Hastings, Understanding and Navigating Betrayal Trauma
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My friend Dr. Heidi Hastings joins us to talk about her research around betrayal trauma for women in marriages (largely around a husband’s pornography use) She is married, LDS, mother of 4, lives in Frisco, Texas, sex and marriage researcher/educator, teaches Family Stress and Coping for BYU-Idaho online, Master’s and Ph.D. degrees in Human Develop…
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Episode 719: Meagan Skidmore, Parent of Trans Child, Life Transitions Coach
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My friend Meagan Skidmore (lives in Dallas, LDS parent of a transgender son, life coach, podcaster) joins us to talk about her 4+ year journey of parenting a LGBTQ kiddo. Meagan, in one of the most heartfelt podcasts we’ve done, talks about what parents can do to support their LGBTQ child and what parents can do to take care of themselves. Meagan t…
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Episode 718: Katherine and Jeff Wise, LDS Parents of a Gay Son, Founders of The Hearth
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My friends Katherine and Jeff Wise (parents of six sons and one daughter, living in the Bay Area ) invite us into the sacred space of their tender story of their youngest son Talmage coming out as gay at age 17 in 2013. Katherine and Jeff (who was serving as a Bishop at the time) talk about their fears, reactions, things they wish they did better, …
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Episode 717: Sean Stansberry, Convert, Age 21, SSA, Preparing for Mission
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My friend Sean Stansberry (living in New Bern, North Carolina; college student, joined the Church in April 2021) joins us to share his story. Sean starts with joining the church during coronavirus and getting baptized 2.5 weeks later. Sean talks about receiving the priesthood, blessing the sacrament, and attending the temple and being part of young…
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Episode 716: Seth Larson, Age 25, Gay Latter-day Saint
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My friend Seth Larson (BYU grad, Bolivia RM, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about trying to date women in hopes of making the typical path work in the Church and his desire to have a family and fully participate in the Church. Seth talks about feeling suicidal and “sub-par” because of being gay and not bein…
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Episode 715: Meka Reed, Black LDS Convert, Suicide Survivor, New Book
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My friend Meka Reed (baptized with her husband in October 2020, Lives in Ohio) joins us to talk about her conversation story and her new book called “My Dot Matters: Rediscovering Faith by Realizing Self-Worth”. Meka starts with her life being defined by suicidal ideation and being in the psych ward—and how they all changed when she read the Book o…
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Episode 714: Drew Young, LDS Author “Wonderful Counselor”
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My friend Drew Young (married father of two, author, certified life coach) joins us to talk about his powerful new book called “Wonderful Counselor: A God Who Will Help Us Through Our Darkest Times”. Drew talks about how his own life experiences (his molding years) have helped him understand the limitless role of Christ in our lives to be our “Coun…
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Episode 713: Kevin Ahlstrom, Two Gay Brothers, Ally
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My friend Kevin Ahlstrom (married father, mid-30’s, active LDS, attorney living in Southern California) joins us to talk about his journey to understand and love his two gay brothers Kyle and Keith. Kevin talks about his earlier years and learning to put aside past conclusions by listening to queer people and then be in a better position to underst…
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Episode 712: Marcus Bowers, Single Latter-day Saint, mid 40s, Bishopric Member
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My friend Marcus Bowers (BYU grad, two master’s degrees, never married/straight, early release missionary, once suicidal, Iraq veteran) joins us to bravely share his story. Marcus starts with coming home from his mission after two weeks (because of his emotional health) and feeling his path was not to return to full time missionary service and how …
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Episode 711: Madison Frederick, New Book
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My friend Madison Frederick (in her early 70s) joins us to talk about her new and important book about narcissism. Madison talks about her story to identity being in a narcissistic relationship (father and former husband) and her journey to understand the controlling behavior and the negative impact on her and the relationship. In the book (which t…
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Episode 710: Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh
1:06:08
1:06:08
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1:06:08
My friend Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (PhD in Mass Communication, Master’s degree in Public Communication, Master of Divinity from Duke, Married Mother of Four, LDS Author, Grew Up LDS/RM) joins us to share insights about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fatimah (co-author of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These” a three-volume series; and her new boo…
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Episode 709: Jacob Yates, Gay Latter-day Saint
1:27:22
1:27:22
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1:27:22
My friend Jake Yates joins us to bravely share his story. Jake (mid 30’s, RM, father of two, recently divorced, in same-sex relationship, respectful of and believes in the Church) joins us to share his story. Jake starts with the early years (growing up in Sandy, Utah) realizing he was different. Those feelings continued through high school and his…
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Episode 708: Brooke Booth, Mixed-Faith Marriages, Life Coach
1:13:32
1:13:32
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1:13:32
My friend Brooke Booth (no longer participating LDS, husband is active LDS, married mother of four, RM, BYU Grad, Lawyer) joins us to talk about her work to help couples navigate being in a mixed-faith marriage. Brooke’s work is not to pull people out of the LDS church—but rather to use principles, practices, insights, and her own lived experiences…
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Episode 707: Tami Carson and Marshall Shearer, Utah Foster Care
1:09:01
1:09:01
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1:09:01
My friends Tami Carson (married mother of 7, active LDS, employee at Utah Foster Care) and Marshall Shearer (married transgender man, foster parent, adopted 5 children) joins us to talk about Utah Foster Care and LGBTQ youth. Marshall starts with his story of being a transgender man and his journey to love and accept himself. Marshall then talks ab…
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