49. Omisade Burney-Scott on Being Sweet to Your Damn Self

The Codependent Millennial Podcast

The Black Girls' Guide To Surviving Menopause Read Omi's Zine! Follow Omisade on instagram. Watch Omi's interview with Stylikeu. Other Inquiries: [e-mail] About Omisade: Omisade Burney-Scott is a Black southern 7th generation native North Carolinian feminist, mother and healer with decades of experience in nonprofit leadership, philanthrophy, and social justice. She is a founding tribe member of SpiritHouse and previously served as a board member of The Beautiful Project, Village of Wisdom, and Working Films. Omisade is the creator of The Black Girl’s Guide to Surviving Menopause, a multimedia project seeking to curate and share the stories and realities of Black women and femmes over 50. She is a graduate of UNC-Chapel Hill, the proud mother of two sons, and resides in Durham. Transcript:

Sophie Shiloh You're listening to the codependent millennial podcast with Sophie Shiloh episode 49 Omisade Burney-Scott on being sweet to your damn self

Hello, my love. So nice to be talking to you so happier here right now. Today's episode is a treasure. It's a conversation I had with a woman named Omisade Burney-Scott. I want to read to you the words that she uses on her website to self identify. But I think powerful introductions are about so much more than someone's bio resume or a list of all their most notable accomplishments and she has many. But I think it's really important when introducing someone to emphasize the impact they've had on your life. And so that's what I want to do here in this intro as well because while I've only known that Omisade exists for like, two weeks, she really has had an incredibly profound impact on my life. I learned about Omisade and her multimedia project called the Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause a few weeks ago on YouTube, I was watching those amazing style like you interviews and one really stood out there was this radiant, gorgeous woman on the thumbnail. She just looked electric. She was radiating. And then I saw the title. It said my body was screaming at me how depression saved Omisade Burney-Scott's life. And that's my story. So immediately, I was just like, Okay, this is a human that I need to learn from immediately. It was such a moving interview, but I was left with so many questions. So I went to her website started devouring podcast episodes, started seeing all of the incredible things that Omisade is doing out in the world and I was just overwhelmed and inspired and enlightened by her work. So go to the shownotes to find everything that she has going on because there's a lot and it's all really good. She has a zine called messages from the menopausal multiverse. She has an amazing podcast called The Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause. She has essays on grief and love and liberation and so much more. Her website is Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause calm. Her podcast is Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause and you can find her on Instagram at oceans sweet and sour, sweet and sour ocean sweet and sour. I'm seriously so honored that these women that I admire and appreciate and call on as guides want to talk to me. My intention with that statement isn't to belittle myself at all. But after the conversation with John on the last episode and this conversation with Omisade and with a couple of other things that I have in the works like I'm just blown away, really by this huge web of a community that you don't even realize exists before you dip your toe in. Please don't wait a single moment or talk yourself out of it when you feel the spark of wanting to get in touch with someone even if your brain tries to tell you that they're too important and smart and busy and powerful and cool to talk to you. I just recorded interviews with two of my heroes in the span of 30 days so you can literally do anything. Trust me. Trust me. Before I roll this interview with her I'll read to you her own words about who she is and what she does. Omisade Burney-Scott is a black southern Seventh Generation native North Carolinian feminist mother and healer with decades of experience in nonprofit leadership, philanthropy and social justice. She's a founding tribe member of spirit house, and previously served as a board member of the beautiful project village of wisdom and working films. Omisade is the creator of the Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause, a multimedia project seeking to curate and share the stories and realities of black women and femmes over 50. She's a graduate of UNC Chapel Hill, the proud mother of two sons and resides in Durham. Now, without making you wait another moment, please enjoy this conversation that I had with Omisade. Omisade Burney-Scott, you are amazing. I want you to give a little bit of an introduction. I'm going to introduce you of course before this, but I want you to tell my audience who you are what is really important that people know about you.

Omisade That's a great question. And thank you for having me. So I think the things that are really important to me, that I want your listeners to know is not what I do, but who I am and who I'm trying to be. So who I am. I am a seventh generation North Carolinian so I'm southern who I am As I'm A I, my parents daughter, and my parents or ancestors have been deceased now for almost 20 years or more. So, I move in the world as somebody whose child but not somebody who's here physically anymore. I am a sister. I have older siblings and a younger sister. I'm mom to two spectacularly beautiful black boys, who aren't boys anymore. My oldest son will be 30 next month, my youngest son will be 14 in October. But they they've taught me so much about like, how to love and how to love myself and be more soft and open and gentle with them and with me. I am an Aries. Me Sue. Yeah, but with a Leo moon and Leo rising. So I am fire fire in fire.

Sophie Shiloh Incredible. That's so powerful.

Omisade I think that's important for folks to know.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah, exactly what they're getting into,

Omisade you know, just just be prepared. And I'm a really passionate person around healing. My own healing, and the healing and safety of my people, black people. Healing of our country, healing of our culture is my my thing. I think that liberation and radical love, like is at the core of healing. So that's really important to me. And like who I'm trying to be, it's just a really happy, vibrant, safe, joyous, young person. That's who I'm I'm trying to be?

Sophie Shiloh Can I ask you to elaborate a little bit about radical love and what that means to you how you embody that how you use that in your relationship with you?

Omisade Yeah, so I think, you know, I had a very traditional kind of view of what love is, I have older parents, who were both born during the Great Depression, and raised in Jim Crow South. And so a lot of the ways that I experienced love from my parents was, you know, providing you something, right, like you have a home, you have a safe place to live, you have a safe place to lay your head, you you are going to school, you'll get to go to college. You're safe, like your physical safety, in terms of like stability was like a really important thing. But kind of emotional vulnerability was not something that was always available to them. And I understand why. And I also feel like for me, I didn't think that I could be as sensitive as I am emotionally, I felt like that was problematic. So I started to try to figure out like how to mask my emotions or mask my sensitivity, not very successfully, honestly. And so as I've gotten older, and also have been on a pretty consistent journey around my mental health and my wellness, radical love looks like me actually allowing myself to be much more curious and open to my authentic self. Like, who is she? What does she want? What does she desire? What does softness look like? What does intimacy and vulnerability look like? In all relationships, I choose to do have access to that, because I don't think that everybody should have access to it. I think boundaries are really important. But I think that the radical part of it is like, what does it mean for me to be vulnerable to myself, and allow myself to have whatever kind of thoughts I might have? And be curious about the origins of those thoughts without shaming or being embarrassed? Or if I am feeling some embarrassment for a thought or if I am feeling some shame or whatever, for thought to allow that to just be released from me in his time, you know, and not like you're failing you have to hurry up and get over this thought, like no, I'm not feeling I'm like this thought has is here for a reason or this feeling is here for a reason. And so I think the radical part of that is like, working everyday to suspend judgment working everyday to sit to alleviate shame, working every day to be more open to who I am in who I allowed to have access to my authentic self. So.

Sophie Shiloh So that is a beautiful lead into just me saying just for a second about how I discovered you, because I found out about you five minutes ago, essentially. And I really, I saw your style, like you interview and I was immediate. I'm like, I'm done, like, so I'm done. It's, I was blown away. And so I haven't had the chance yet to like, listen to quite every single podcast you have. But I just dove in immediately and started gobbling them up. So the the thing you said the phrase you said, that kind of hit me and just told me that I had to reach out to you and talk to you and learn everything you have to say. And all of that was you talking about just being sweet to your damn self. And part of that, you know, includes not coming to yourself with judgment and shame, like you just mentioned, which is amazing. I want you to talk more about that. But that there are so many ways for us to be sweet to our damn selves. And you also had an interview with blue now, who was that interview? Everyone has? That's just, it's prerequisite information for like, a woman on earth. You know what I mean?

Omisade I think so too. She was a absolute hoot when we interviewed when he was in her night dress, like she was actually like, anybody gonna see this? I was like, no, no, I'm in my pajamas. As it's fine. I'm in blue. Now it's fine.

Sophie Shiloh For her to just show up so much as her that she didn't even check before. Like, that's just so powerful. And so. So this concept of being sweet to your damn self, talk a little bit about that, because coming out of, you know, a childhood, where you're describing you were shown certain kinds of love, and you were probably not shown how to love yourself in other various important ways. So like, what is what does it mean to you to be sweet to your damn self? Now? How do you do that? How have you learned that over the course of you know, having kids experiencing menopause? This simple question should only take, you know, one or two sentences to answer. It's no big deal.

Omisade Maybe maybe 12 or 13. But um, so I want to say something, you know, I my parents worked really, really hard, really hard. And my, my mom was super lovey. And like a huge cheerleader of anything that my younger sister and I wanted to do in terms of like, extracurricular activities, if we wanted to do dance, if we wanted to, whatever she was like, yes, let's do it. Let's make it happen. And I think that was born out of her not having access to so many things as a kid, like they were really, really, really poor. The thing that I didn't see my mother do was take good care of herself. She was always extending that out to other people. Are you good? Are you hungry? Are you cold? Are you sleepy? Let me take you here. Let me take you there. I didn't see my mom rest until my mom gets sick. And that that felt like a really, really important part of my framing of like, what does it look like to take care of yourself? What does it look like to be sweet to yourself? What does What does rest with this care look like? She just did not read. And she wasn't the only one that I observed doing that inside of our family? Like, none of the black women inside of my family? Didn't know. Yeah, that they were always in

Sophie Shiloh the concept was just like, foreign entirely. You know,

Omisade the concept is foreign. Because it's not a luxury that black women are afforded in many ways. It's definitely that generation. Right? Like I said, my parents were not boomers. My parents were the greatest for

Sophie Shiloh Yeah, so that was not even a question.

Omisade Absolutely. What do you do you work hard? Yeah. And you take care of your family. And you're in constant motion, you're cooking, you're taking someone to this class or someone to this club, there's always something going on. And so my relationship with rest to me is like an exemplar of a place where I wasn't I didn't know how to be sweet to myself, like rest to me is such a really important part of my sweetness practice now. And I think that what are the unintended outcomes of the pandemic, is that it allowed me to lean in more deeply into the fact that I don't know I don't know how to rest. I still struggle sometimes even working remotely even still working primarily from home Like carving out times in my day, where I'm just in a place of just rest and ease, and not in motion. Even inside my house, you know, I teased that, you know, the virtual world that we kind of operated now I feel like I'm in a long hallway and I'm running from one Zoom Room to the next, you know, Oh, are we on Zoom? Are we on Google me? Are we on Google meet? Are we on Skype, and I'm just running around in this virtual space. And like, giving myself an opportunity to stop in this virtual space and go outside and get to stop and to lay down even if I'm not taking a nap. Like if I don't close my eyes to go to sleep, but just to, to recline. Yeah, and let my body soften and be quiet and just settle in. I listened to music all the time anyway. But to put on some music that just lets me just like time travel or relax? Yes, time travel. Yeah, all the time, all the time, whatever it may be. So the being sweet to myself, right now primarily looks like the ways in which I allow myself to rest. And I think it's still a journey of figuring out these things, and unlearning a lot of what I saw growing up as a kid. Yeah.

Sophie Shiloh So unlearning. Let's pause there for a minute, the undoing you mentioned that in your interview with Dr. Jenn from decolonizing therapy, you talk about the undoing of so much of what we were taught, the disguises that we put on ourselves in order to survive and the, you know, just the various habits of either not resting or telling yourself that you're not allowed to not giving yourself permission to do all of this. Like, I think it relates also to sovereignty, having sovereignty over your own body in your own life. Literally just living it as if it is yours because it is it is so tell. Tell talk a little bit more about what you have to undo what you have to unlearn in order to be a happy woman. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, that's really the essence of it.

Omisade I mean, you know, I want everybody to be happy people, however, right? Cis, hetero woman, whoever's listening to your podcast may not identify that way. Exactly. Everyone who listens to you to know that what hat for me, the undoing or the unlearning? Absolutely kind of exists inside of these constructs that we live in, in this country. Right? So capitalism tells you gotta be like producing, producing, producing, producing, I'm a genetics kid, right? So it's like, Where is the evidence that you are a valuable person? In? Did you go to college? Where did you go to college? You know, there's always the bar of like evidence of your legitimacy. Or if you're fraudulent, like, it feels like it's like one of those kind of like Whack a Mole situations like you can never actually get it right. So it's like, okay, inside of a capitalistic construct, what does success look like? You got to go to college, you got to go to a particular kind of college. You got to have a particular kind of degree or a particular kind of job, but you got not just have any job. What's your title in your job? What do you do? What are you responsible for? Are you a supervisor, like how many people use provides? Do you have a budget? Well, how big is your budget? Like it's always like,

Sophie Shiloh proof and also the competition of how much do you overwork this masochistic competition?

Omisade masochistic competition of like, I literally put in 65 hours, I'm killing myself. Yeah. Right. And if you being like, Oh, my God, I put in 80 hours last week, and then they're like, but I'm getting to go to Cabo. So I feel so much better about it. So it's like, Well, why do you have to do that? Yeah, like, it's very bizarre way in which we're in the hyper productivity, hyper, you know, hyper speed of work, like you have to prove your worth. Yeah. And I you know, and because I operate with an intersectional identity of someone who is a black who's black, who's a woman who sits who's heteros college educated, who I feel like has been pretty successful and being able to take care of myself most of my adult life, not all of my adult life. Most of it, yeah, you know, you you move in a way where you're like, you also realize how much white supremacy and patriarchy is like jacked you up.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. And that hits you and then you're like,

Omisade Alright, and so the unlearning is why am I doing this? Yeah. Am I actually really happy don't want to do this. Well, if I stopped doing this what what will I lose? Am I'm willing to lose whatever that is? Like cuz some But what I think I will lose is like, actually not real anyway. So like, how do I give myself permission? To be very clear, I've never worked in corporate America. I've always worked. I worked in higher ed. And I've worked. I've worked in social justice in the nonprofit sector. And so in the US think, Oh, well, that doesn't happen inside of the social justice nonprofit. That's not true.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. Oh, god. No, I mean, ya know,

Omisade the hyper hyper work that exists inside of nonprofits is to me again, an example of like, how capitalism and white supremacy work ethic, like, what have you working seven days a week? Every Dragon, I

Sophie Shiloh come from that world to it,

Omisade and I'm talking to you, so drag, my oldest kid is to drag him to every single meeting every single action, every single protest every single phone game, you know, every single board meeting, you know, he, for the longest time, che was always the only kid in the room. Yeah. You know, and, you know, there was some, you know, I don't know, honor in being like, oh, yeah, right.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. Which I mean, it honestly, that does make sense. Because like, fuck, yes, you're raising this incredible aware child who's engaged and who sees the impact of how he and how his mom walks in the world. But then there's like, what you what you're saddling yourself with, when you allow yourself to live only in that way. There's, there's no rest, there's no connection with hand, there's, like,

Omisade no rest, and there's no there's no boundary, right? There's no boundary, there's no like, somebody could call me at nine o'clock or 10 o'clock at night. And when, especially with Che, because my boys are 16 years apart. Yeah. So Jay, you know, focus, disrupt whatever time that I should have been really dedicated to being in mommy mode with him. Yeah. And be like, Listen, I need to talk to you about this, or I'm working on X, Y, and Z. And, you know, he just learned to go with the flow with it and be like, you know, snuggle up underneath me while I'm working, um, or, you know, take care of himself and be in his room. And you know, both my boys are very, Loki, chill, chill as kids. So I'm very blessed in that way. But I also know that the way that I sometimes showed up for him, I won't do that with Taj. I've changed with Taj. And I think that, and che sees that we've talked about it, too. We've talked about that, as he's an adult, and what that was like for him. And, you know, talk about that with ties, you know, and I'm very clear with people who are working with me now, like, I'm, I'm not available to talk to you after a certain time. Yep. And I will not allow that time to take away from ties. Yeah, it's very important to me now, I'm, I'm divorced. I've been divorced now, for nine years. And so it's really important to be in a healthy co parenting relationship with his dad. And it's really important to be in a healthy relationship with both my boys as I'm still parenting an adult child and a teenager. Yeah. And so those boundaries became even more clear to me with my depression around really needing to take care of myself and really needing to be at home and comfortable with my kids and math and my family and allowing them to take care of me and be be open to that.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. So one of the most challenging things for women to do, I think, just based on observational and, and personal experiences, receiving love, receiving care, not only from ourselves, but from others as well. So, how have you been able to really sort of surrender to that and say, No, I'm not going to be a martyr anymore. I'm not going to, you know, base all my worth on how much I'm willing to sacrifice anymore. I'm not going to play this masochistic competition game of how much can I suffer? How much can I work? How much can I sacrifice? Um, you know, talk a little bit about your experience of just saying no, I'm, I'm going to allow myself to exist and exist beautifully and exist with joy.

Omisade Hmm. Well, the first thing is I don't have any illusions of perfection. What's that quote? that perfection is the thief of joy. Yeah, so I don't know. Sophie. I'm still figuring that shit. Yeah. Like I legit. Don't know. Like, fully. Like, I'm just I know what I do know is I'm committed. Yeah, I know that. It's a practice for me. And so I know that every day I'm like, I wantOmisade to be happy. I want Omisade to be whole. I want Omisade to be safe. I want Omisade to be creative. I want Omisade to be committed. But I, every day, I am trying to disrupt any illusions of perfection. And some days I feel really good at it some days I suck the entire. Yeah, some weeks, I sucked the entire week where I'm just like, oh, this was just like, pushing a boulder up a hill all week long around all of my imposter syndrome, all of my ways in which fraudulent even at almost 55 years old. Yeah. All the ways where I feel like I'm still in my own little anxious attachment style, dancing as hard as I possibly can to get people to be like, aren't you just the sweetest little lovable thing, right? And then that doesn't happen and be like, dance faster, dance harder, be more shiny, you know? And then maybe someone will be like, Oh my God, did you see this person over here, just dancing, and sweating profusely? Let's give them all the love that they need. Let's protect them. Let's Let's offer them resource. So they can feel really, really good about themselves. And so I don't have a perfection. I don't have a way that I will say to someone. This is this is the life hack. Here, look, here's the plot twist. Sophie, there is no life hack. Yeah, there is no life hack. I think the life hack is if you decided that the way you've been moving in the world is detrimental to your spirit, to your soul, to your happiness to your heart to your mind. And you just got to figure out ways to cut that shit out. Just cut just figure out everyday, how am I gonna disrupt this? What's a real simple thing I can do to disrupt this today? How can I disrupt tomorrow and just be in a constant place of oh, if something pops up, and I realized that I'm dancing again. I'm dancing really hard. And you're like, What are you doing? Oh, are you tired? Are you? Um, does this feel like a familiar scenario? You feel like you're time traveling right now back to Yeah.

Sophie Shiloh Like where'd you go? What happened? urge you go,

Omisade come back, come back, come back. You can actually breathe. Take a moment. Like I need a moment. Let me hit you. All right back. Take a break. Take a walk, take a nap, drink some water. chill out for a second. And then decide what you need. Like yesterday, I was on a call with some folks that I work with. I trust so much. I've trust them, respect them. I love them so much. And I was feeling really crispy and tired. And so I asked for support, which is not something I would have done. Previously, I would have likely just been sitting on the zoom with pinched eyes. Mm hmm. Oh, and like, headache brewing behind my eyes. And they would say, Oh, me, so are you cool to do that? I'm like, sure. Yeah, no problem. I'll get something to y'all tomorrow. And yesterday, I was like, Y'all, I cannot I need someone else on this team of people who I believe in and trust and nor fully capable to take this piece for the next couple of weeks. I can't do it. I have too much on my plate. And I will not only will I not do it. Well, I'll be resentful if I have to do it. And they were like, nice. Thank you for being honest and asking, of course, we can take that for you. And I was like, thanks. I really appreciate that.

Sophie Shiloh so valuable. That honesty, that self awareness to self knowledge. Yeah. And I just want to also honor how and thank you for doing that. Because when when women who younger women like me look up to do that. It really does. I know, blah, blah, blah permission is something you can only give yourself, you know, whatever but but it's also not, you know, it is really really valuable and helpful for us to see. strong, capable, confident, beautiful women or genuinely people of any gender identity, none of this matters, you know, etc. But seeing you do that knowing that you have that experience of doubting yourself in that moment saying no, I really should over extend. No, I really do want to bend myself until I break here but you don't. And that gives us permission not to as well. It's just I just want to thank you. It's really powerful.

Omisade It is so important. Yeah, love is it is so important and I think that we often see people in front was we see them doing it, we can we can see bear witness to folk engaging in the back bend in the breaking in the hype speed in the hyper productivity. And we also we watch, we are bystanders, yeah, in order for there to be reciprocity in this healing in this unlearning, where we actually extend ourselves to the folks that we care about in the book that we're working with are being created with and say, Listen, I'm noticing that you've been really doing a lot of work. Are you taking care of yourself? Is there something I can take off your plate, you know, and it's really ironic I, you modeling that will transform how you show up in the world, and also the next generation. Case in point. A couple of weeks ago, I was working, I had a really, really long day, working with a client with my consulting practice. And I had been in my little office space all day long. And Taj came home from school, and I was still here and I said, Listen, I'm just going to be a long evening, so I'm going to actually just ordered some food and he was like, no problem. Then he came back upstairs. He said, Is there anything that I can do for you? And I was like, um I don't know. He said, Is there anything around the house that you need done that I could just take care of for you? And I was like, what the kitchen cuz you some support. He was like, considerate that. He's 13. Oh, like, Consider it done. So this kid goes downstairs. Oh, me. It should. Anyway, that's his job. But we got there, cleaned the kitchen, took the trash out. Just and then I ordered the food. He unpackaged the food put on a play. It gave me some sugar. And was like, wow, I was like, I love you too sweet. And that that's a big deal for me. Because this this kid was like, I know she's got some stuff. She's She's committed to I had a deadline and I couldn't like yeah, wiggle out of that. Yeah. So he was like, was there anything I can do to take something off? You're

Sophie Shiloh like, we're on the same team. Mom, you're going to pull an all nighter? What can I do? Yeah, I got you. Yeah.

Omisade I think is important for us to extend that kind of care to the folk who are in our lives. Yes. We're doing work with to be able to say to someone, look, Sophie, I see you're working really hard. Sweetie. Is there something I can take off your plate? As opposed to just watching you burn? Yeah, we watch each other burn all the time as as women we watch each other burn. We like who she is just, she's gonna crash and burn. Don't stand there and observe

Sophie Shiloh dad there. Yeah. witness to that and then be like something. I knew you were gonna crash

Omisade and burn. I was I was concerned. Were you really not

Sophie Shiloh helpful? Were you really? Yes.

Omisade Really? Like, that's a big Aflac.

Sophie Shiloh I didn't hear from you.

Omisade I was like, stretched out to you like I was concerned. But I figured if you was doing it, you knew what you were doing.

Sophie Shiloh Like, I told you to reach out if you needed anything like, yeah.

Omisade Which is another thing that we do when we see somebody in kind of in a grief cycle. Yes, exhibiting their their post traumatic stress are their trauma responses. And so we just watch,

Sophie Shiloh don't wait for them to ask for help. Yeah, you cannot do that. And you know, it's so trendy for people now to talk about being trauma informed. You can't be trauma informed. If you talk about relying on this hyper individualistic method of healing. It's just Yeah, I know that we could just rant on that forever. Really

Omisade good. You really could I think that, you know, some of the ways in which I feel like people are talking about trauma informed work, or trauma informed activism, sometimes feels very passive where you're watching someone and you're like, oh, what I'm observing right now is their trauma. So I'm just gonna have their trauma, as opposed to, oh, what I'm observing right now, is this person operating in their trauma? And that can activate me to speak to this person and say, I'm observing some things. I'm curious about some things. Are you open to us having a conversation about it? And also, this is what I'd like to offer you. Are you open to that? Like it's always to me like, I don't just want you to be curious and observing the from a kind of like an anthropological study.

Sophie Shiloh Yes. A voyeuristic kind of No,

Omisade no, I want you to actually be engaged and invested. So I know I can't expect that from every thought, everybody. I'm not gullible enough to think that that's available to everybody. But the people who actually say that they are down for me, and I'm down for them, I would prefer if they see me operating from a place of my trauma to be like, Oh, me, I have noticed. Yeah, last couple of months or the last couple of weeks, XYZ. You want? Can we talk about that? Do you feel open to talking about this with me? And is there something I can do for you? This is what I'd like to offer. And I'm always that person. When I'm talking to folks that I work with, or that I'm in relationship with us? I will. What do you need? Do you need me to listen? Do you? Would you like me to reflect when I'm hearing? Yeah. And can I offer you something? Yeah. So you know, I'll say, Would you like to take a walk this weekend? I'd love to walk with you? Or would you like to have some tea? We'll have tea outside? Or do you feel comfortable having tea inside? And want me to send you a playlist? You know, I think I'm a DJ Sophie, I'm the you know, people. I'm a curator of vibes.

Sophie Shiloh I was gonna ask you for your music earlier. And I was like, I don't know if she'd give me her personal Spotify, but I'm gonna need

Omisade it and I will send you my Spotify. Curator of vibes and I will say to someone you want me to make your playlist?

Sophie Shiloh Um, that's, that's like a special kind of love.

Omisade That's deep. That's like a 21st century mixtape? Are you kidding me? That's,

Sophie Shiloh that's intensely special. If someone does that for you,

Omisade if somebody thinks enough of me to curate a playlist for me, I think we go together. I think you want to say yeah, like, do you want to do that?

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. Are you like, what's going on here? What do you what kind of messages are you sending? Yes, but this, this is huge. You also talk about music like that. That is, okay. So when you ask someone, how do you want me to support you right now? How can I show up for you? So many times, we don't know how to ask, we don't know what to say we don't know, like, especially if you're at the very beginning, like clients, when I first start working with someone, oftentimes, they don't know what they like to eat. They don't know what kind of music they like, they've lost themselves, they've abandoned themselves for so many years. They just they don't know. But for you to say, hey, here are some of the ways that I like to, to connect to nature to my self, that I like to ground. Let me let's do some, like that's extremely helpful for people who just have gone so far off the path of self love that they do not know how to care for themselves. They need like, let me show you how to do this. Let me like, yeah, it's a, you need Wayshowers I think,

Omisade though, you need Wayshowers. And you need wayfinding tools like to get back on your path. You know, and it's sometimes you're, when you're off your path, it can feel really scary and isolating it to have someone look at you and say, I'll go with you. Yeah. And you're like, you will be like, Yeah, sure. I'll go, let's go, let's go.

Sophie Shiloh Let's go, this path is one that you can walk, it's not going to kill you. It's gonna, it's gonna be the best thing that ever happened to you this actually. Okay, let me ask you this question. Because that reminds me so much of the language that I use for this question be being afraid of something and it actually working out beautifully. So, um, oh, okay. So what do you wish you could tell your pre menopausal self yourself in your 20s or 30s or 40s? yourself during your most confused or uncomfortable? So like, when you were on your path, and you were the most confused or the most discouraged, the most lost from yourself? What do you think helped bring you back? What were your wayfinding tools? What helped you bring or come back to yourself? Does that question make sense?

Omisade It does. Yeah, I have I, you know, I'm having this visualization right now of, you know, times, especially in my 20s and 30s. My, you know, my parents passed away in my early 30s. And I felt very much like wow, like, how am I moving in the world now, without parents like, this is such a hard thing. I still have so many questions and so many things I want to know and I'm, and I'm grateful that I actually developed it and started practicing African traditional religion that allowed me to develop a really deep relationship with my ancestors. And so, one of the things if I could time travel back to myself in my early 30s, I would say you can slow down, slow down for a second. I have a seat at the seat. Here, drink some cool water. Take a couple of breaths. I'm holding your stomach and let your stomach just before. Just relax, soften your belly, soften your jaw, relax, your ancestors are all around you, your parents are all around you. They might not be here with you physically, but you can still talk to them, you can still have a deeply loving relationship, you can still heal with them. And you're going to get to know them better. Now that they're not physically here, you're going to be surprised by some of the things you learned about them in the next 20 years. And it's true, there have been things that have been revealed to me, inside of our family about my parents, in particular about my mother that I didn't know, until, like you before last, during the big things brought to my attention, things were revealed really important things. Yeah. Understand her more as a woman, not as my mom. Yeah. But as a woman.

Sophie Shiloh Right, that distinction is everything, I think,

Omisade is the complexity of who we are as people. And when we get relegated to a one dimensional or two dimensional identity of just like, oh, well, they're a mother or their partner or their XYZ, like your your, we engage in a ratio all the time. Oh, yeah. All the ways that wait, the people show up. And so I would want to time travel back to myself and be like, you're getting ready to find out some things that are gonna help you understand yourself better. All of who you are, what makes you tick, what you need, what you deserve, what you actually want, and give yourself permission to say out loud what you want. Without hesitation. Right. And so, I do think that it is an ongoing journey of returning to yourself. I used to be in this place where I felt like if I was evolving as a person, I was leaving parts of myself behind, which also in you know, if I'm being honest, I was like banishing parts of myself. Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm evolving. And so it was like hateful. Oh, it was just like, Oh, she was so problematic. 16 Ooh, she was so messy of 25, blue sheep, or whatever, at 30. As opposed to being like, Oh, I kind of understand why the 16 year old did this, or why the 25 year old this or why the 30? Or the 35? Did this. All of the avatars, all of the versions of myself were invested in keeping me safe? Yeah. And some of the ways that I tried to keep myself safe. Were like, ill informed. Yeah, or immature. Right. And so

Sophie Shiloh they were the highest capacity that you had at that time, at that time.

Omisade And so what I get to do is engage in reunification of all my avatars. Listen, I love the 16 year old. I love the 25 year old. I love the 30 to 35 to 40 to 50 year old, I love all the versions of myself, and I have like, invited all of myself to be the CO conspirators of me being happy and safe and unhealthy and whole. And when I get peaked, or trauma response shows up and that 15 year old Omisade shows up and she's like, bout it bout it. I'm like, listen, you're actually safe. It's not a real thing. Is not 1982 You don't have a right. You can you can just show this. Okay? That's that was 40 years ago, I get why you were doing that. You don't have to do that. Yeah, what's wrong? Let's talk about it. Let's drink the water. Just walk outside. And then I'm not and I'm not mad at you. And I'm not putting you out. And I'm not pushing you away. I'm actually inviting you in. And then the 15 year old gets to relax. And be like, Oh, this is cool. Okay, you know, you're not bad for almost 35 year

Sophie Shiloh old version. Yeah, she learns that you're not going to punish her not gonna punish

Omisade her. I used to punish her. You have to apologize to her because I was punishing all these younger versions

Sophie Shiloh of mine and abandoning them and yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you brought up two really important things. This for unification. I want to ask you about what or whom you've had to walk away from in order to choose you in order to walk towards you, you know, what you've had to walk away from in order to walk closer to yourself. And also you mentioned stating what it is that you want when you when you finally admit to yourself and say out loud in no uncertain terms what you want. There's obvious power in that and I want you to talk about that. And you know, because we don't so often or we don't for years, or we do it very indirectly in a very apologetic way. So yeah, I mean, take all of that and run with it.

Omisade Right? You know, the thing that I, I definitely feel like the thing that I had to walk away from it wasn't a person, it was a belief or a mindset. And the mindset that I had to walk away from that I'm still walking away from is that I don't inherently deserve love or care unless I am performing. Unless I'm sparkly, unless I'm producing something that's so amazing that you can't find someplace else. And so this like anxiousness that gets attached to the performing the anxiousness that gets attached to producing that anxiousness that gets attached to, I got to do it better than anybody else has ever done, I got to do something that's like spectacular, because if I don't, at some point, so whoever I'm engaged with, whether it's a co worker, whether his collaborator, whether it's a lover, a partner, or an ex spouse will look at me and be like, you know, you're not that great. You know, I changed my mind. I don't mind appealing. I actually don't love you. I don't think you deserve my love. I don't want to keep you safe. Right? So this this mindset was like, Oh, shit, well, let me just keep doing this, you know, Glamour you to glamour myself to glamour, these folks. So that way, they're always like, wow, there's just a whole lot of activity going on here. Oh, my goodness. Oh, let me shut is just so fantastic. And she's so bright, and she's so sparkly. She's got this big personality, and she does things big. And so Oh, cool. Oh, my goodness. It's just like, overwhelmed with all the stimulation that I'm providing right on the stimulation, new sexual stimulation as well. Like,

Sophie Shiloh oh, yeah, all kinds of stimulation. Yeah. Oh, she's right. She got it all.

Omisade I'm trying to keep you distracted. So you don't see me?

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. Yeah.

Omisade Really see me? Full Face. No makeup. No judging. No mask? Yeah, no dancing. No sexy. No

Sophie Shiloh performance, no performance. No amazing

Omisade speaking, or training or facilitation or whatever that I'm engaging in. And you just looking at me? Straight on, that you won't find me wanting that you won't look at me and say, Oh, I don't know if I'm bad. Nevermind, change my mind. Onto the next thing. Good luck. Right. And so that had to be the thing that I was willing to walk away from. And also the thing that I needed to be willing to turn to which was my more authentic self, right? To know that it is okay for me to remove the mask. You know, there's some masks I'm gonna hold on to because I'm a black woman live in this country? Yes, yes. Yes. Look like me here. So there's a max that I do keep that I will always keep? Yeah. You know, I would I wish I could say that in my lifetime that that mass Osco also could be discarded that I could be like, Oh, I can move in this, this world in this country and feel safe as a black woman. But I don't know if that's actually going to be a true statement for

Sophie Shiloh me. Yeah. I mean, we're not going to be alive. Long enough for No, that's Yeah.

Omisade Right. So there are some that are very functional. Yeah, I understand. But there are also some masks that were just really choking the air out of my body. Yeah. Was not allowing me to see myself fully and also the folk that I would actually like to see me fully. You know, once you want, yeah. I get to choose who my enemies are. Yeah, I can choose who I want to expose, reveal. Lean into with my vulnerable, authentic, soft open heart itself. Right. And so the decision to know that oh, you know, that I am sparkly, I think naturally. And then that's an

Sophie Shiloh obvious like emanates, you know,

Omisade I appreciate that. And I also am I have a very strong performative mask, and so like to be able to really level down into a more authentic place has been such a beautiful, hard, generous journey for myself. I feel like I'm extending myself a lot of generosity in this space, a lot of grace.

Sophie Shiloh A lot of respect, you have to be courageous,

Omisade like Yeah, like very scary thing to be like, Oh, here you go, this is just look, this is me, here I am, when I'm going to write this thing, oh, when I'm feeling really good about myself, and also when I've messed up, like, you know, to be able to be like, that was not okay, I need to fix this, I need that I need to apologize, I need to take responsibility be culpable for situation,

Sophie Shiloh or now that you know how to treat yourself without shame. And you don't approach your own self with derision and hatred anymore. You can take accountability and take responsibility and apologize in like a restorative way, in a collaborative way, you know, it doesn't feel horrible or like an indictment of who you are.

Omisade It doesn't feel like an indictment. But it can still feel hard. I had a recent situation where somebody shared with me some really important things that they experienced with me that was hurtful to them. It was hurtful. And I'm grateful that they were honest with me. I'm grateful that they were vulnerable with me. And I felt it in my chest. I felt sick. I was like, Oh, I cannot believe that I did that. Right. And my initial reaction was to be defensive. And to be like, well, that's not what I meant to do, or that's not that's not that's not what I really feel like. But that's not useful. And it doesn't actually matter. Yeah. So it doesn't matter.

Sophie Shiloh It doesn't matter.

Omisade So like me centering my feelings, exactly. Who was courageous enough to say to me, Oh, me, there's something that you do that's hurtful to me

Sophie Shiloh doing it? And what a friend. That's powerful.

Omisade Right, which lets me know that this person actually loves me. Yes. Right. Like they have our relationship and they want our relationship to be stronger, more

Sophie Shiloh unlike guess what, oh, me, I love you. And I love our relationship, even when you do something that hurt me, like,

Omisade invite you to stop doing it. And I want to talk with you about it. So the first thing I did was, you know, give myself permission to feel my feelings. You know, like, I kind of walked around, you know, I needed to get myself together. And then I responded and was like, Thank you. Yep. And I'm sorry. And I take responsibility. And I'm committed to fixing this. And we can talk about this when you're ready. I got there's work I gotta do.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. And that's so simple.

Omisade It's so simple. I was all the rage of emotions. I felt like crying. My heart was just racing, shaking. And, you know, I also was trying to be very, very vigilant in my response. I was like, I want them to know that this is not a knee jerk reaction. Take your time. Take your time. Take your time. This is important. Like, again, there is no perfection, we will hurt people. Yeah. We will mess up. People will hurt us. They will mess up. And like they this person model for me how I can also let people know when I feel harmed by someone's actions or words to say, Listen, I really care about you. And I care about this relationship. There's some things that you've done that really hurt me. Yeah. And I'd like for us to talk about

Sophie Shiloh I think that having those kinds of conversations, in friendships and relationships and in, in professional relationships with colleagues is becoming more normalized and more accepted. And I think that's so exciting because you can have, we don't have to have relationships anymore that feel like putting on a mask for 30 years.

Omisade Right? Right. Or waiting for you know, part of my my shadow side of my fire is I would allow myself to get angry. And then my main three will be the fuel for my honesty.

Sophie Shiloh Yes. Yeah. I mean, as an Aries. Literally you're just speaking my soul. Yes,

Omisade I know lighter as all the way up. Like I was like, wait until I am like looking like Jack Jack from the incredible. Yeah. And then I'm gonna let you have it. Yeah. And I was I'm gonna be honest, like brutally honest and say, everything that I've been holding on to, as opposed to like giving myself permission all along. To be like, that was not okay. I'll feel good about that. You know,

Sophie Shiloh when I was always open, and

Omisade anger and rage is a real emotion that I also don't want to deny myself or act like I'm not exclusionary. Yeah. And also that that gives me more information again, about where I'm at what's going on with me. I'm experiencing your rage, which I think is scary to not scary about It's been problematized like, yeah,

Sophie Shiloh if you are, it's been pathologized. And yes, of course, Italy has Sophie. So like, if you are, I cannot even Yeah, it's it's horrific like for, for me to talk about, like how I'm like healing my relationship with anger. It's one thing but I'm like, I cannot even understand a black woman or healing her relationship with anger, like, when you've been told by everyone in in all areas, you're not allowed to have this. If you do, it will be like we said, pathologized and you'll be legalized. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Omisade The indictment is really intense. And the punishment is really intense is just like, what,

Sophie Shiloh if you're going to actually punished for having emotion

Omisade actually be punished for having emotions that happen generationally?

Sophie Shiloh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that is a lot to overcome. So you know what, let's, I know, we're like at the end of the hour. Um, and as far as I know, you're not free for the rest for the next eight hours of the day to keep.

Omisade I'm, like, be like, let's go get some tea, and come back and continue this conversation. And don't be like, get some wine and continue this conversation.

Sophie Shiloh Let's just keep going and going, seriously, I love talking to you. Um, but I do want to, like in the in this next transition to the end of the conversation, where I want you to tell everyone how they can find everything from you, and learn from you and all of the things that you have to offer. But also just, this is gonna be where we started the conversation, but it wasn't in discussing decolonizing, menopause, and decolonizing, healing and decolonizing what it means to just be a person in the world. What, tell us tell us a little bit about what how you'd like to end this conversation on that note.

Omisade Mm hmm. I think that, you know, a lot of people have been using the moniker of decolonization as it relates to a lot of constructs that we move inside of, in our culture, right. So people talk about decolonizing fitness, they talk about decolonizing aging. But the decolonizing construct was first introduced to me by my indigenous brothers and sisters who talked about the decolonization of an of an indigenous mine and an indigenous land indigenous bodies, right? It's like, what does it mean for someone who is not a part of your culture, who did not originate from the land, the space, the region are, who you are, to come in, Co Op, and take your land, and then also engage in the erasure and the genocide of your, of your people? Like intentionally, right? So the decolonization systematically

Sophie Shiloh intentionally for centuries? Yeah.

Omisade So the decolonization language was first introduced to me through indigeneity. It's like, what does it mean for indigenous First Nation people to be engaged in the decolonization not only of the land, but of their culture and their people, right. And that requires deep study in history. It requires a deep understanding of constructs and systemic oppression. It requires a commitment to this radical liberatory healing and love and what is possible in terms of reunification and really understanding who you are. And so when I talk about decolonizing, menopause, I really begin by thinking about what has been the journey of women, women identify people or gender expansive people's bodies, in our culture, and how our bodies have been problematized? In particular, black bodies, right. So what's been our experience with not having agency over our bodies? What's been our experience of not being believed about how we're experiencing our bodies, whether that is pain, right, where the best is comfort with an S concern or fear, and being told, well, that couldn't possibly be true. That's not you can't be experiencing that amount of pain. You're Yeah. You're fine. And the implications can range from like, just real confusion and discomfort to death. Yes, of course. Yeah. No, the outcome can be death. Yeah. And so if we are decolonizing, menopause and aging, it kind of lives inside of this rubric of like, what does it mean for you to have agency over your body? And what were you told about your body? Who told you that? Where did the message Yeah, about your body? What your body can do as your body continues to evolve. Your body is always changing and evolving. From the moment you take your first breath to the moment you take your life. And in between all of those moments, we have been told as black people as black women, that your body is a problem. Your body is a problem the way is shaped, your size, your sex, your sexuality,

Sophie Shiloh your, your hair, every everything,

Omisade everything is a problem. And so that you find yourself in at this stage of your life where you're aging, your body shifting and changing again. And then people are telling you what menopause is the whole shit show.

Sophie Shiloh You're going to be hot problems get different and worse.

Omisade It's going to awful awful in your your vagina is going to dry up and then you're going to die.

Sophie Shiloh Yeah, that's it. No one's gonna ever love you again. And

Omisade absolutely not. You were not lovable. You weren't lovable to begin with. But now you're

Sophie Shiloh now you're extra disgusting. Yeah. Right.

Omisade And so the decolonising have added the deconstructing of that and pulling the pulling apart and looking in. I'm always I'm always a student of history. I love I love history, I'm a student of culture, I pay attention to the way culture moves, and the way we treat each other and what we value what we don't value. And then so the framing of decolonizing, menopause, decolonizing aging decolonizing. The Crone is to deconstruct through my understanding of history, and contemporary constructs, what we believe about our bodies and our value and our ability to have agency our ability to choose our ability to evolve, and love and heal and be safe, and experience, pleasure and joy, all those things.

Sophie Shiloh So let's end with talking about the word beautiful, because when I hear you speak, and when I read your words, and when I look at you, that word just flashes in front of me, I mean, so unbelievably, unspeakably beautiful. But you mentioned in your style, like you interview which everyone should go listen to that that's not a word you use to describe yourself. So and I'm also obsessed with, with women and, and female bodied people finding value in finding identity and things that have nothing to do with physical beauty. You know, for so many reasons, we could talk about that consumption, etc. But how do you describe yourself? What are the words that you love to use to describe? Only Shodai?

Omisade I do think I have a beautiful heart. I think I have I call myself lionhearted. Because I think I'm very courageous. I think I'm very generous. And I think I'm very protective of the people that I love. So that's definitely one of the first things that I would describe myself as. I also think I'm funny as hell, like, I think I'm a hoot. And I have a quick, quick body sense of humor. So I enjoy that I enjoy the quips that I can pull out to bring levity to the situation or just just enjoy and be raucous. Yeah, I have a rock if the sense of humor, I think I'm also very sensual person. Enjoy touch. I enjoy being touched, and I enjoy touching people. I like the sensory experience of pleasure. So smell and touch and music. So I think that I'm not always I don't always say it in that way. But I do think I'm a very sensual person. You know, as far as my aesthetic is concerned, I still wouldn't say that I'm beautiful in terms of what people would see physically. I think I'm striking. I think that I sassy, sexy, even, um, but not Not, not beautiful. I think there's someone will look at me like, Oh, she's striking, but not like, Oh, she's really beautiful. You know, I don't know why that still feels that way. I'm still committed to exploring that and being open to seeing myself beautiful inside and out. Yeah. I think that I am a very emotive, emotionally sensitive person. So, you know, a lot of people these days are using the language of Empath, or empathic, or empathetic. I think I have a certain sensitivity to energy. And so when I see someone struggling, I want to understand what's going on. I want to be helpful. If I see somebody happy or excited, I want to be excited to be like, This is so good. We should talk about this. I want to celebrate, like I'm definitely like, we should share that. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely my mood can be affected by the people who I really care about in their, in their, their joy and in their sorrow. I have a particular sensitivity in that way and I'm a lucid dreamer. So I Eve in the spirit realm. I'm very spiritual. I have a deep spiritual practice. And I know that I sometimes receive messages through my sleep, that I know our dreams. And I'm a lucid enough dreamer that sometimes I'll even talk to myself in a dream and say you should pay attention to this part of

Sophie Shiloh this. Yeah. Well, that's helpful. That's convenient that you have that. It is helpful it like pay attention.

Omisade But sometimes it doesn't lend itself to actually restorative deep sleep because I'm just busy all night long.

Sophie Shiloh All night long. Yeah. Is with myself. Yeah, that is true, then you'll wake up and you're like, I just I was at work all night. Right. And I was getting shit done.

Omisade getting stuff done. And I need to think about what I was getting done. And I need to figure out what this means.

Sophie Shiloh Right? Yeah. Seriously? Oh, that is so funny. Yeah. Completely. Oh, my goodness. Well, I cannot thank you enough. I think that this was a really important conversation that I wanted to have. And I really wanted you on my podcast because when I think about it, I I have to be obsessed with what is going to help my clients stop wasting their 20s on people pleasing and start being alive and start loving their lives free from codependency free from all the codependent bullshit, not having boundaries, feeling insecure, not living life as fully as it wants us to live it. And so you were the perfect person I was like she has to come on my any of the millennial women who are struggling with codependency needs to hear about how Omisade is done fucking around, not living a beautiful life that you savor all the time. And I again, I cannot thank you enough for your example, in that. And for all the guidance you've given us. Everyone has to go listen to your podcast. It's genius. And I want you to tell us where we can learn from you. Tell everyone your offerings now please do that.

Omisade I appreciate Sophie so much being able to have this conversation I absolutely enjoy the relationships I have with the millennial women and women identify people in my life. I learned so much from them. Yeah, well, you can check us out on our website is WWE dot Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause, you can listen to the first three seasons of the podcast wherever you listen to your podcast, whether that's on Apple, or Stitcher or Spotify or wherever we are about to launch season four in March. So we're really excited about that. And we just had our first interview episode interview for season four is going to be so juicy overview I

Sophie Shiloh cannot wait.

Omisade Oh good. Um, yeah, and you can follow us on social media. You can follow me at Oshunsweetnsour that's Oshunsweetnsour or you can follow Black Girls Guide at Black Girls Guide to menopause on IG So yeah, that's where you can check me out.

Sophie Shiloh And regardless of your racial identity or your age, I want every you know tiny little like Chinese 16 year old high school student to listen to Black Girls Guide to surviving then it's like your everybody is welcome. Everyone who has a child, anyone who has a daughter like everyone has to listen to it. It's genius. Oh me thank you so much for today. I hope you have a beautiful day and I'll talk to you soon.

Omisade Absolutely Beloved. Thanks so much.

Sophie Shiloh Bye gorgeous. Thank you so much for listening. If you love this episode, which I don't know how you couldn't go find everything Omisade related in the show notes. Go follow her on Instagram at Oshunsweetnsour. Go listen to her genius podcast Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause and you can also find all of her work and how to hire her and connect with her at Black Girls Guide to surviving menopause.com To learn more about me and the work that I do with my clients to heal their codependency and to apply for one of the last few spots in my next group coaching round. Find me on Instagram at codependent millennial, or visit my website at codependent millennial.com. You can also text me at 216279 4035 And yes, it's really me, I promise. Until next time, have a really, really lovely time being alive and I'll talk to you very soon. Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai