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Importance of Allyship: Beth Sammons, Business Operations Chief of Staff 44:42

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Beth Sammons, Operations Chief of Staff and MAVEN Chapter Lead. Beth's journey from attending the Naval Postgraduate School to 15 years in the private sector before joining Oracle. Beth shares how her experiences shaped her appreciation for pace and purpose, and the importance of bringing people together to stay grounded in our impact and goals. We also highlight a book that emphasizes the value of diverse skills in boosting both personal growth and the ability to contribute to the needs of others.…

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Finding You: Vector Accelerator with Michael Halterman 54:22

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We're excited to bring back Halty for a discussion surrounding The Honor Foundation’s growth and success that includes Vector Accelerator - Accelerating the veteran journey to clarity, confidence, and conviction for life. If you’re a service member within a year from separation or a veteran from any branch of the US Military, you’ll want to hear this episode and learn why you would want to consider leveraging this program to support your transition. Do you have a family member, friend, co-worker who fits into this category? Share it and support the possibility of them finding ways to learn more about themselves in different ways they may not have realized possible. https://www.vectoraccelerator.org/ https://www.youtube.com/@VectorAccelerator https://www.linkedin.com/company/vector-accelerator/posts/?feedView=all https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelghalterman/ --------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:39:07 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the main podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode I'm joined by Michael Halterman, vice president of the Honor Foundation's Vector Accelerator. I'm excited to bring back Hall T for a discussion surrounding the Honor Foundation's growth and success that includes Vector Accelerator accelerating the veteran journey to clarity, confidence and conviction for life. 00:00:39:09 - 00:01:00:12 If you're a service member within a year of separation or a veteran from any branch of the US military, you want to hear this episode and learn why you would want to consider leveraging this program to support your transition. Do you have a family member, friend or coworker who fits into this category? Share it and support the possibility of them finding ways to learn more about themselves in different ways they may not have realized possible. 00:01:00:15 - 00:01:24:20 We have all we need to become the person we want to be. Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family Hall. These contact details are in the podcast description along with the links to the source of all the information you need to know to learn more about Vector Accelerator. 00:01:24:22 - 00:01:48:21 Paul T, What's going on? It's good to see you again. Chris Great to see you. Things are well, Good. Yeah, it looks like significant change is going on around you. And you know, and I think when you and I were talking because we kept in touch, you know, sporadically, but intentionally over the last three years. Now September 2nd is when I look back and know how long has it been and it's September crazy how fast, right? 00:01:48:23 - 00:02:14:25 Yes. Yeah. And, you know, it started out getting introduced to chef Jerry Bhatia, coworker, but also friend of mine here at Oracle, who runs the Oracle Veteran Internship program. You know, he and I were talking several years ago and he's like, you need to come down to San Diego and I'm gonna introduce you to some people. So he introduced me to psych armor, the good folks over at Psych Armor, which is just close to you, and then. 00:02:14:28 - 00:02:37:14 TMF Heather Kelly now. TMF And then, then you all and yeah, as fate would have it, you know, he had a scheduling conflict, so he sent me in to talk to I think it was just Jesse at that at that moment. But she brought union and we had that conversation. And then Hillary came in and we sat down at the table and kind of just shared vision. 00:02:37:16 - 00:03:08:00 Yeah, Took off from there. Yeah. And it's crazy. You know, half was half the size in terms of what who was serving. We had five campuses back then trying to figure out how to create the now five more campuses that we have. We're our team was probably a third the size so yeah non nonstop acceleration as we've continue to grow and now we've expanded because it's always been in our heart. 00:03:08:00 - 00:03:28:29 It's really hard when you go pitch take off and they soldiers, sailors, airmen Marine from broader military comes up to you and says, hey, do you have a program for for you know, all military? And at that time we did not. But it's always been in our heart to have it because it's really hard to turn folks away. 00:03:29:02 - 00:03:50:19 And so during that time period, we have been quietly working on this project known as Vector Accelerator. And yeah, and it feels really good to every veteran that comes up to you and says, Hey, I need help in transition. Say yes, brother, sister, I've got you. Let's talk about it. Let's let's get you into the services that we provide. 00:03:50:21 - 00:04:19:03 Yeah. And I and I agree because it's, you know, so if we can go back to that in the in the conversation that we're having, you know, as much as I was, I thought I was aware of what DHS was doing. I went to the site and I saw the mission and those things. I didn't have the intricacies as far as like the details and format, the intention, who's involved and what, what you know, what type of professionals are you bringing in to help support the program in and out of? 00:04:19:06 - 00:04:56:00 If you know? And so maybe maybe it'll do us some service too. If you could just recap initially to have the format and all of those types of things and then and then it will help others see why. Because for me, you know, really quickly slide it in. There is immediately after I started to hear more about it, it's the structure of it was so similar to the logic and common sense I think was in my head of how to get somebody in to see more about what it is that's going to bring value to that individual through a process that is the structure and stability that is often needed, you know, and pull it 00:04:56:00 - 00:05:26:01 out, you know, help nudge them towards the discomfort and then get them comfortable with that next evolution of their life. Yeah, Yeah. So quickly, quick overview. You know, I was ten years old. We've been serving special operations in a very specific way, Special Operations veterans, and really were trying to get to the active duty service member somewhere between eight and 12 months before they leave active military service, because the best time to get a job is when you still have a job. 00:05:26:03 - 00:05:50:25 And working through the transition while still on active duty. Service, we find is far more efficient and what's best for the service member. You want to find yourself in crisis with no answers. You want to work through a lot of the the really the transition is a a tremendous number of individual steps. There is a lot of change management. 00:05:50:25 - 00:06:19:10 But then there's also the transition piece, which is the psychological how do I in my heart and head deal with this massive transformation that's happening in my life? And so the way we do that is, again, try and get to them early before they've left uniform and we help them with the change management stuff that is necessary, but completely insufficient for what is really going to happen in the transition. 00:06:19:10 - 00:06:36:18 And I thought that was amazing that Heather Miller brought that up in a previous podcast and that was her favorite book. I didn't know that was a book. I've got to go search that thing out now because it's it's commonly known that is, there's a lot of unnecessary things. And just because it's on the checklist doesn't mean that it is completely what you need. 00:06:36:18 - 00:07:00:18 There's more to it. And so how do we tackle that at takeoff? We have a three month phased approach. Each phase is approximately one month long. It's changed slightly since we began, but essentially so you get three phases. But we start with the one place that kind of no other foundation starts with or veterans per organization is Who are you? 00:07:00:18 - 00:07:23:15 Chris When the title and the rank goes away and no one no one cares any longer that you're a pilot, a sniper, a logistician, a, you know, fill in the blank. The thing that you did in the military that matters very much to you when no one cares about that. Who's Chris again? You need to identify who you are and what matters most. 00:07:23:17 - 00:07:46:15 What are your values? What are you not willing to give up about you and what and and how do you articulate that? When you sit down, interview and you shake hands with somebody and they say, thank you for your service and that's it, And now it's how do you interview and how do you show up to that? Ready and prepared because you know yourself. 00:07:46:17 - 00:08:16:07 Unknown And so we spent a month with those active duty service members and veterans trying to figure that out in a very structured way. Once we've done that, then we take them into phase two, and that's where we do kind of the the necessary tactical change management things of LinkedIn and resumes and how to dress and really diving into how to pitch yourself, which are 32nd pitch, which are five minute, you know, and so on and so forth. 00:08:16:15 - 00:08:48:14 And then phase three is where we put all of the information together and then give them opportunities to get engaged with other veterans who are out in the workforce, civilians who have never served, who are doing things like sales, marketing and all the other different verticals. You'll find this stereotypical business across multiple industries so that they have different touchpoints and have gotten to utilize these skills in kind of a safe space to make the, you know, to to have the UPS's. 00:08:48:14 - 00:09:07:28 And and I need to work on this pitch and I mean, I need to change my language because the language I'm using is still Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps and it's not civilian yet. So let me work on that before we release them into the wild and all the way through that, we don't let them do it alone. 00:09:08:01 - 00:09:39:27 That's such a key and fundamental portion of all of this. We layer in humans support at every layer we can. And so as soon as they come into the classroom, we put them in triads. So they've got swim buddies or rock buddies that they're going through the whole class with, and they do some pretty deep, intimate, rough work together to really help each other because some of these pieces and parts out, every individual gets a coach and those coaches help them with their individual needs in the transition. 00:09:39:27 - 00:10:08:14 Because even though you and I might be going through the course together, we're having wildly different transition experiences. Lots of things overlap. But like you've got kids and I do not. You live where you live and you want to move somewhere and mine's going to be different. You're looking at the tech industry and I'm looking at nonprofit, so we're all those differences we cover with giving them a professional coach and then once they get to a certain point, we drop them into the overall alumni pool, which is a it's pretty close to 3000 right now. 00:10:08:16 - 00:10:33:18 And then they can reach out to all of those alumni. We're spread throughout the United States and they can start answering and asking questions. And so support, support, support all the way through. Then obviously, our staff are very much involved at different levels and in different ways. And so, you know, the big takeaway is diving into who you are is probably one of the most important things to do. 00:10:33:20 - 00:10:55:09 And we fundamentally make sure that they're supported all the way through, that they don't ever feel alone all the way through the hiring process. And even in like the first years of employment and that's where our mission statement really comes alive. We serve others with honor for life. So the next mission is clear and continues to impact the world. 00:10:55:09 - 00:11:15:11 We will serve you for the rest of your life once you graduate with THC from any of the programs. We're always going to be here. There's always going to be levels of support available to you. We're never going to forget about you. You can always come back and take a class, talk to alumni, get answers, and yeah, that's that's the basics of what we do. 00:11:15:13 - 00:11:46:24 Yeah, that's, that's a great, great recap. I mean, the key, the key thing hearing this is the support that's in place, the human centered focus. And as you were speaking, I realize and you probably know this, but I realized, like you're kind of stripping away the things that help compartmentalize how to how to use your past and your experiences, but focus on the like you have the future, but you're also you becoming. 00:11:46:24 - 00:12:17:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that starts with some of the the defining moments that occur is probably the realization like I've, I found myself to be consistent. These areas I've been this is the way I've been the whole time. Yeah. Just added layers, accumulated things in such a way over my experiences, however long you were in. And now I'm leveraging that, you know, and then, you know, being able to understand when to use the tools that I've developed over the years. 00:12:17:27 - 00:12:41:12 But you know, the right tool, right, right job and then build new tools and then but the, the amazing thing is the number of people that will continue the new the new tribe as they develop and now the scenarios playing in their head of who they can look to left and right for the new the new evolution, you know, face to face you wherever you are in your life stage. 00:12:41:12 - 00:13:09:18 And that yeah, that's probably something that. Do you think it requires a lot of investment in trust what do you think the main I guess contributor to being able to establish that is it's all relationships and relationships are all trust at the end of the day. Right. The the deeper the trust, the better relationship. And that's from friends to partners to, you know, you name it, whatever, whatever title you want to put on it. 00:13:09:18 - 00:13:41:07 It all begins with can I trust you? Right? And we try and build that in at every single layer. Now, you know, back when I joined and came on staff in 2018, I had had really long conversations with individuals about why they should, why they should come through to achieve. And we've built trust over time with the community because now we're ten years old and we have thousands of individual examples and we love seeing alumni. 00:13:41:07 - 00:14:04:17 Unknown A LinkedIn posting, I got this new job, I've been promoted. I made a career switch. When most people don't make a career switch because I knew how to do it and I did not feel stuck, right, Because I had a I had a community around me of that alumni network that allowed me to go from, you know what, this this whole real estate thing is not working out. 00:14:04:19 - 00:14:24:27 And I'm not finding a passion here. And but I'm not stuck. I can get to Oracle because I know one or two folks that work there. They're also alumni and I can have a conversation with them. The trust is already built, and now I get to have a conversation with the hiring manager because of, again, trusting relationships. And we all say it's networking, right? 00:14:24:27 - 00:14:52:18 But I think the reality is it's community building. And the more communities you can build, the more you can link those disparate communities together and the more together all of us can get harder and more complex things done. Yeah, that's that's a great a great flip on on the term, right. So networking in some traditional, conventional thinking, we you know and it's from could be generational I don't know but you know we say networking most people understand that. 00:14:52:18 - 00:15:18:13 Many people understand that for for what it used to mean. But it doesn't really get to the essence of what it is. And that's what you're saying I'm hearing is the relationship and trust is the community building you're just establishing now another extension of the things that you had into the things that you want or need. And there's the incentive is personal, right? 00:15:18:13 - 00:15:38:28 Whereas networking probably doesn't describe it like that. Networking, I think, sometimes can feel transactional to a degree. Yeah, right. It can feel transactional. But the reality is all the veterans that I've had the privilege of working with, they don't want a transactional relationship. They really want to help you. And they're asking for a little bit of help also. 00:15:38:28 - 00:16:08:14 And them asking for help is really hard. Like, it's really hard because you get taught regardless of which branch you went through, be self-sufficient, figure it out, do it yourself. And so being able to have it build a community where the trust is reciprocal and knowing that if I if I extend my trust in saying that I'm vulnerable and I need your help with this, that it will be reciprocated with, you know, helping me find the answer to that thing. 00:16:08:14 - 00:16:37:09 And and certainly that veteran is going to help you And in return. Yes. Yeah, that was you articulated that better than I did. Yeah. It's it's that I've had time to think about it. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. All right. So, so then, you know, so when, when did the what sparked the idea then, to feel like now's the time to spin off into doing something that was in your hearts? 00:16:37:12 - 00:16:59:13 It has been, I would say, simmering in the background probably since the very beginning. I would give credit to all the way back to the founder because it was simmering in his head. Matt Stevens, our current CEO, has been here now for coming up on six years. He he it has always been in his mind and but it's always how right? 00:16:59:13 - 00:17:29:20 Because no matter no matter what you want to do, whether it's Oracle or real estate or finance or you're always resource constrained, always right. So we had to scale to a certain point to where we had enough resource, mostly time to be able to work on a world class curriculum that was right for a broader audience. We knew that the curriculum works because we have a we have ten years of of test case with special operators who are pretty tough customers. 00:17:29:23 - 00:17:54:23 They're going to give you harsh feedback in the moment. The critical piece. Yeah, the absolute critical piece. You know, when the time allocation, the money allocation, the most critical thing though, was the human and that was Casey Volunteer. Casey volunteer is a master builder of technology products. And this is only her second one. She's on her. She's moved on and she's on to her third one now. 00:17:54:26 - 00:18:18:01 But everything she touches, it's not gold. It turns to platinum. I mean, it just so everything that you see that's built out in there from the marketing, the language, the colors, the fonts, she just did a tremendous job. And then making it all work and work the first time from the get go. So she handed off an amazing product to me. 00:18:18:03 - 00:18:46:18 But I absolutely have to say, you know, she was the critical piece that made this happen. So having the resource of time, having a few more members on the team, some great, great, great civilians here who got passionate about it and do various parts of business, worked on it in their spare time. And then we started to collaborate, you know, then we started, you know, then you get some technology around it and you start sharing ideas in one space and it got some real momentum. 00:18:46:18 - 00:19:13:12 And then we we got some funding and then that's where that was the big change, right? So resource allocation and and the need to show up in the market, if you will, with a world class product, right. Oracle can't just launch something willy nilly. It has to be of of Oracle value before the world can see it, right. 00:19:13:12 - 00:19:34:03 Even though it might be a minimum viable product. Your minimum, I'm sure at Oracle is is much different than anyone would conceive of at this point. We feel the same way, right? It really has to be world class as a minimum viable product and we're going to make the changes as we get the customer feedback. But it's an it's got to be good from the jump. 00:19:34:03 - 00:20:06:09 So a lot of little individual things had to coalesced. And we have not officially launched yet. We're we're still quietly making it happen. And you'll see like an official launch 2025 and and a lot of co-branding from Daughter Foundation and Vector Accelerator and other great partners and I think there is there and and you're saying it without saying it is you know because the pride you're taking in the work and then the outcome, you know, you want to make sure that that trust and the brand that's been built. 00:20:06:11 - 00:20:33:22 Yeah. And then the trust that's been established isn't diluted with, you know, hasty thinking or a haphazardly effort. Right. Just to try to push something out. I mean, it's taken as long as you've said to get to that part where the risk is high because what what will happen will, you know, does it does it dilute the uniqueness of DHS program if by extending it? 00:20:33:22 - 00:20:54:13 Did that occur, that QUESTION Yeah, yeah, I know that's a valid question and that's absolutely something that the staff has struggled with to, you know, how how do you maintain high value, high touch, Right. That's one of our internal mantras, high value, high touch to every single fellow, every single alumni, every single coach, every single partnership and all the communities we build. 00:20:54:16 - 00:21:20:28 And how do you do that in a completely modality? Because we're going fully online, there's almost no human touch. So how do you do? High value, high touch when it's completely asynchronous online and, and, and there's no all these levels of support we've built in all these in-person opportunities. You can't scale that to 200,000 every single year. You have to make tradeoffs. 00:21:21:00 - 00:21:50:00 And so going into this completely different modality of completely online, we really took some painstaking look at the details and how exactly does this information in this format lands with the individual and is it actually serving them? So we had we had to answer a lot of those questions up front. And they have to believe then the risk is the risk reward factors, because now it is online. 00:21:50:03 - 00:22:28:06 Your reach has a higher potential, which is that's huge. And then by design, Right, Right. And you can tell I've gone through it and, you know, maybe talk about later my experience, whatever, maybe don't. But the idea, though, I mean, it's it's fantastic because the fact that now you can extend the reach and you're talking about, you know, if you're within a year of separation or after and maybe because of what you talked about earlier, you know, my choices were including relocating to this place where access to a physical place isn't isn't available. 00:22:28:08 - 00:22:49:21 And you're allowing people to be able to have that option. And then because the brand and the trust that's been established, you can invest, taking a chance and going through it, which I'm biased because I've gone through it. So with the extension of now having it being accessible. And when, when did you first when was it first made available? 00:22:49:25 - 00:23:16:18 How long has it been in play to where you've had the time to go through some of the pilot programs and talk a little bit about the experience? Sure. So we we did the first, we did an alpha and a beta test internal to the staff and then external to go to great partners like yourself. And, you know, veterans who have experienced the transition, know what it's like and allowed everyone to give their inputs. 00:23:16:19 - 00:23:38:09 Hey, change happened to glide change, small dog to puppy. This doesn't make sense. Like all of those little things. And then there was some very tough feedback right up front like this. This flow of these chapters does not work like you need to flip this around. And so we took that. All of the feedback from the Alpha and Bravo tasks and then we moved it into a pilot. 00:23:38:09 - 00:24:02:00 We did a pilot one and two, and then we really focused on folks that did not know each draft. This is the first time there. Or maybe they have heard of a takeoff for the brand, but they haven't. They've never touched the product. And so it went out to veterans in transition or active duty military members in transition, and veterans who have already transitioned, who have no in-person experience with have got their feedback. 00:24:02:00 - 00:24:28:15 Again, those little tweaks, some bigger tweaks even occurred. We got offered the idea that, hey, maybe you should do some video, some extra material. So we decided, okay, let's to a podcast in conjunction with and we'll do the whole first season on the chapters. So if someone has time, they want to get in depth about a chapter now, then go listen to a podcast episode that is focused on that chapter. 00:24:28:16 - 00:25:02:28 They can really dive in. And then and then after that there was a bit of a pause. Cassie decided to take a new opportunity with it. With another company. We had a shift internally who's going to take it over ultimately was decided on myself. And so for the last approximately four months, we're kind of in a we're ramping back up to really and I'm trying to drive awareness largely right now, do some recruiting, but really to give us some momentum going into 2025 and then that'll be are our kind of official launch date. 00:25:02:28 - 00:25:30:09 I think we'll we'll probably place in the history books. This is when it actually started. So a little bit of a convoluted answer, but we've been we've been working on it and it's been exposed to about just shy of 200 folks in 2024 with what we're looking to. You know, my internal metric for success is can I get a thousand graduates in 2025? 00:25:30:11 - 00:26:04:00 I think that's achievable based on throughput and and rates of completion. Yeah, I agree. And that yeah it sounds pretty typical of right people right time and you know achieving a certain threshold and then a change right and it's and it's it makes sense because it's evolving and it's scaling and then you know where that where the the experts can come in and certain phases is key. 00:26:04:00 - 00:26:22:00 And what's nice about it is the continuity. I mean, what I heard, what you were saying is there's still continuity in all of this and there's still from the focus is still trying to strive to improve the small things because there is that logical flow when you're an impressionable moment that you probably are hyper focused on those little things. 00:26:22:00 - 00:26:40:27 And those are the one those are the things that get you to have the confidence, to want to do the things. Some of the things that you talk about, you know, allow myself to be vulnerable, allow myself to ask for help, allow myself to go through a thing where I'm guided through somebody else that has to know me just enough to keep me there to learn more about me. 00:26:40:29 - 00:27:02:02 And then we can start to get into the meat of who you who you were, who you are, who you thought you were, who you think you are, that you want to be. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. It's interesting. I heard a quote most recently that we are, and it was by a psychology a I forget the I forget who it was exactly. 00:27:02:02 - 00:27:42:20 But essentially she stated, We are nothing more than the few stories we tell ourselves, but we are also nothing less. So be careful the stories you tell yourselves. And on the surface you can kind of swipe that away and like whatever. Like you can kind of. It's not. But when you really dig into that and you really start to analyze how you talk to yourself in your own head all day, every day, and what is the consistency of the story, How you maybe don't talk to yourself so nicely or how you you think and tell yourself about your past military service, your past career, whatever your career was is. 00:27:42:22 - 00:28:06:26 It's interesting how that plays out in your day and how you show up to the next thing. And then I started to realize, like, I am just but nothing less than the stories, the collection of stories that I tell myself about myself. So be careful. Yeah, because you can convince yourself either side it's worse or it's better than the reality of it. 00:28:06:28 - 00:28:31:16 Absolutely. And it is why we work on the stories inside of Vector Accelerator that you tell yourself so that you're telling the right story. When it goes external. Yeah. And that perspective. So I'm glad we landed there because we probably skipped over the excitement of talking about the stuff that we have. But so let's, let's talk about, you know, it went from takeoff. 00:28:31:16 - 00:29:01:23 It shifted over. There was a there was context in a theoretical approach to improve and extend. But now it translated into this, you know, a vector accelerator. So the the typical rundown vector, the mission, you know, the program, the pragmatic approach, you've touched on all that stuff, but that summarize it and construct kind of give people a clear vision on what it is, what you're trying to achieve, how you're doing it specifically and the timing and and things like that. 00:29:01:25 - 00:29:22:24 So who's it for? It is for active duty service members about one year from transition. So that means if you're getting out today or you're getting out about a year from now, you're the right person and we would love to catch you earlier than later. If you're a veteran, there's 18.1 or 18.2 million living veterans, according to the most recent VA. 00:29:22:24 - 00:29:50:01 And since this study of 2023, it's for you too. There are 18.1 or 2 million open seats in available. So if you're in nine or ten and you're like, I want to take a seat from a young soldier, young airman, you're not. It's for you too. So if you fit that in those categories or in that in that category, then please join. 00:29:50:03 - 00:30:17:09 It's 100% free. It's 100% online. There are no mandatory due dates that you have to show up to. We do offer a right now it's only once a week, but we do offer a once a week check in called Azimuth Chat. So anybody who's going through the course at any point in the course can just check in and have a human interaction with other folks doing the same thing, thinking about the same things as you. 00:30:17:12 - 00:30:39:21 And then you get to start to build your community because then you can hear from other soldiers, sailors, airmen, marine guardians about what their transitions like the resources, the other resources they found, what is working for them in the curriculum, and maybe what's not working for what is sticking that just doesn't feel right in the curriculum. So what's the curriculum? 00:30:39:21 - 00:31:29:10 It is ten chapters and the idea of the ten chapters is not to again help you with LinkedIn or resum√©s or any of those things explicitly, but implicitly. What it does is help you build the idea in your own mind of who you were in your time and service and how that plays through who you are today. Understanding your value, your values, what your priorities are in terms of when I talk about priorities, you're going to have endless opportunities come at you, and the immediate pressure is going to be, I have rent, I have a mortgage, I have the obligatory bills, I've got kids, I've got to get through college. 00:31:29:10 - 00:31:52:11 If you're at that stage or or on and on, and you're going have a lot of financial obligation, more than likely, where am I living? And on the Maslow hierarchy of needs, that one's really important. It's the base, right? You've got to take care of that. But the reality is it goes through all the way through Maslow's hierarchy of needs of who do I want to become, what makes me successful? 00:31:52:16 - 00:32:40:00 When I look back at my life and I tell my story about myself, and so what we're really trying to do is not so much help you with the change management of get a LinkedIn, check that box, get a resum√©, check that box, get an interview, check that box. We're trying to help you with the transition that is going on in your head and in your heart about who you are and who you're becoming, utilizing everything that you've learned over the last four or 30 years in the military so that you can move that into the next phase of your life, not feeling lost, confused, bewildered sometimes about how did I end up with this 00:32:40:00 - 00:33:00:19 job? Or how did I end up in State X? I took this opportunity and it's the wrong opportunity. We want to help you filter through all of that and go on this journey before you have to do it. All the deadlines are right upon you because you just got your 2014 and it's crunch time and you haven't thought about any of this. 00:33:00:21 - 00:33:23:06 So that's really what we're trying to do in a nutshell. Yeah, so that's the substance behind this, the top layers of activity for prep. You know, you're talking about the tasks oriented focus of the resume and the profile and the, you know, the typical like we talked about the networking component to make yourself marketable, to show people the perception of you. 00:33:23:08 - 00:33:57:00 This this is more focused on the depths of you being comfortable and confident in knowing more about what you want to do, the way you want to do it, how you want. You're more in control of it. Whereas before it might have been at the mercy of orders, whatever they may be, location or role, you know. But but you're it sounds like you're also continuing to establish and maintain the core of the person itself that, yes, retains those things. 00:33:57:00 - 00:34:21:06 You're not using the things that you've acquired. You're just learning how to leverage those things in the new scenarios in your life stage. Absolutely. And so I can tell a personal story going into networking, going into community building, going into building my LinkedIn and all of those things on the surface. I didn't want to do any of it. 00:34:21:09 - 00:34:41:10 I just didn't. All of it was new is foreign. There was a lot of critical. It felt like very critical decisions I had to make. Where's my headshot? What is my title? How do I explain myself to the world? What happens when I make a post? What happens when I follow somebody? What happens when I put the wrong? 00:34:41:12 - 00:35:03:27 What if I put the wrong line of information on the resume? And that's the thing that gets me. You know, to miss an opportunity. You get hit with all of these seemingly critical decisions that you have to make in mass. And these are all decisions you haven't had to make before. And it wasn't until I had done a lot of other veterans for organizations, and they're phenomenal. 00:35:03:29 - 00:35:51:00 They do a great job hiring heroes, great organization, hire our heroes, great organization, and many, many others. But it wasn't until I went through the Honor Foundation and I went through phase one and really started to pull myself apart. And this is what we're doing in Vector, pulling myself apart, really understanding my own story. It wasn't until at the end of that, plus a little bit more time having comfortable conversations with fellow veterans, working on talking about myself, quite honestly, that I could go have a conversation, intelligent conversation with someone like, I don't know, someone who's been in banking as a VP of banking for 20 years at Wells Fargo, or someone who's been doing 00:35:51:00 - 00:36:15:13 real estate for 30 years. Like I had a really hard time and I see this happen with all of my brothers and sisters in the veteran space. They don't feel comfortable because they don't know who they are yet. They don't know how to talk about themselves. But as soon as they they they figure that out, the the switch flips and they're just they're able to navigate those social environments so much better. 00:36:15:16 - 00:36:40:23 And then you're building communities and it just it works. Thanks for that. And and you're right, once once you get to the part, because I'm not trying to oversimplify it, I'm trying to find the right words to explain it. But you know that the ability to do the task itself is less the issue, right? The comfortability, the unknown of now it's different. 00:36:40:23 - 00:37:09:28 I mean, if you I mean, comparatively, probably this is not doing it justice. If I'm if I'm serving and I'm in going to a new unit. Do you have a relationship with some NCO somewhere else or it doesn't matter you have a relationship with somebody else, maybe where you're going and then you reach out. And the point of that, I think, is the essence of what we're really talking about is the the understanding of the known is one thing, but the the acceptance of the unknown and the confidence to maneuver through that when it's now affecting things differently. 00:37:10:00 - 00:37:32:21 A mission is things I'm no I'm going to go execute whatever the mission is. But if it's going to affect me personally or my family, we sometimes convince ourselves that there's higher risk. I have to do it differently. And maybe you do, maybe you don't. But this is just clearing the pathway for you to see that. Now you have a common the Common Core understanding of what it is that is going to be needed. 00:37:32:21 - 00:37:55:27 And some of it is not too much different than what you already know to do. You're just now seeing better about how you can, you know, establish facts in your head to tell yourself what it is that you need to do so you don't get distracted with the abyss of the unknown because that that can be consuming as the two extremes can happen, you can feel like a total imposter. 00:37:56:03 - 00:38:16:09 Yes, and I did. I felt like a total imposter. I'm talking to a senior vice president of corporation acts or executive vice president. I don't know if I'm supposed to call her Stacy or Mrs. So-and-so or senior vice. Like, what do I call this person? Right? I got an opportunity to talk to CEO. What do I call you, Bob? 00:38:16:12 - 00:38:43:26 I don't know. And then you get the other stream. I was a pilot, right? I've made thousands of critical calls. Like anyone's going to want me at their company. Like, there's. They're like the two extremes in that you've got to figure out how to build trust with other humans and and do it in a social situation and understand their language and adapt to it. 00:38:43:28 - 00:39:08:21 And then the nuance of the language of that industry. And you can't do any of that confidently if you can't show up authentically you and open and willing to take in new information and adapt, but be able to tell your story. Yeah, settle in, settle into the second step. The first step is saying yes to an opportunity, Right? 00:39:08:21 - 00:39:29:22 And that's it. In this case, I want I want help, I want support. I want to do something, whatever it is. Second step. Now you can just settle into hey, that that felt right. More. I still have a question. So now I'm again comfortable being curious and out loud, I guess is the best way to say yes to the out loud. 00:39:29:22 - 00:39:52:08 Yeah, right. I mean you know, this this intuition, right? This intuitive approach that I know. I feel like I know what needs to be done but in that but is the thing that which I guess we can kind of just narrow it down to what we talk about that but is now your hesitation, your procrastination, your self-doubt, you know, for whatever the cause is this is the construct that helps you through that. 00:39:52:08 - 00:40:13:04 So what what are what are some of the common mistakes that still occur? We've probably touched on in here, but explicitly, what do you think the common mistakes on two ends and the individual in this situation and then the people that are making it clear after we won't talk about the ones that make no effort to help support anybody in the communities or what have you. 00:40:13:04 - 00:40:45:21 But we'll talk about the ones that are trying to what are some of the common things that we can pay attention to to help provide or shed light on? You know, we're still doing this and we need to do it differently or and then companies or organizations trying to help. We're still doing this and we can do this differently understanding that every single veteran who comes, if you're trying to recruit veterans, if you're trying to bring that goodness into your company, regardless of the size of the company, realizing that every single veteran has a heart to serve. 00:40:45:23 - 00:41:08:24 I mean, we are service members. It's in our name right? We are service members. And so the only thing that we're looking to genuinely do is find a new hard problem that is complex and we want to help you solve it because we want to provide value. We're 100% team driven, motivated individuals who really want to work well with the team. 00:41:08:24 - 00:41:41:21 And we we want all of those things because whether we did it for four or 40 years, that's what we were doing. We're solving really complex global problems with great teams and that's that's all we want to do next. So the gap, the area that could really help recruiting efforts and retention efforts and great American companies that are looking for for veteran talent is have a training pipeline and really, really think about it. 00:41:41:21 - 00:42:07:15 You know, build it the best you can. But they get a veteran on board to lead that thing for you because they're going to be able to help you navigate what it should really look like to get someone to go from years of service into what it's like being at Oracle and you have to do that because their entire life's context to that point has been in it just a different industry, right? 00:42:07:15 - 00:42:51:15 They're making an industry change, so help them understand your company, the insides, the the, the nuances, the culture, how things actually get done, if that's what culture is, how things actually get done. And if you do that, you've fully empowered them to be the most successful they can be. And look, we we know this works. How do we We can absolutely pick a date in history and say, yeah, this whole veteran thing works because the millions of veterans who came back from World War Two have put our entire country on a a bull market largely for decades. 00:42:51:15 - 00:43:30:10 And they all just came right back years of war in places all over the globe and came right back to be management. Frontline workers starting their own companies, going into academia like we know it works. An entire generation did it. And so if companies spent some time investing and training and making sure that the veteran understands how things work at your account, at your company, and how they can lay out how they can be successful, help them work on figuring themselves out a little bit and give them a little grace while they're doing that. 00:43:30:12 - 00:44:10:20 Veteran or Vector Accelerator would love to be a partner in that. Yeah, I think you'll see much higher recruiting, retention and success rates overall, do you think? Thanks for that. Do you do you think that there's a portion of folks that maybe had held formal leadership positions that, you know, as as they shift? Do you believe that maybe there's an emphasis by certain organizations in general to maybe leverage the leadership from them, expect leadership from them like they want. 00:44:10:23 - 00:44:33:20 They have this desire to be a formal leader versus now that they're coming out because of how exhausting or for whatever reason, they might have shifted their mindset. Today, I just want to be an icy, an individual contributor. I know I have the capabilities, I know have the potential and the skill sets and those things. But I want to break how do you how do you navigate that scenario when there's an expectation of certain kinds? 00:44:33:22 - 00:44:58:23 Well, I guess what I would offer the best way to do that is just have an honest conversation and build build a real relationship with that individual at the individual level, not just blanket. We're going to treat all veterans. Here's the box. We're going to put them in and we're going to once they're in that box, there's always going to like, Hey, Chris, I know you've been the Army now for 30 years and you're getting out as an six colonel. 00:44:58:25 - 00:45:24:11 You shows on your resume that you've led upwards of thousands of people for even up to a year at a time in a complex combat environment. Do you want to continue to lead at that level, or would you like some time as just an individual contributor on team? Because really what we're trying to do with our company is make sure that you're in the right spot so that you can be the most successful. 00:45:24:13 - 00:45:45:26 And if you don't want to lead right now and you want to take some time, you should feel empowered to do that. And conversely, if you're ready to just jump straight in and you want to we want to put you on a leadership track sooner. Well, let's talk about what that could look like. I mean, in my mind, that is that is how simple it could be. 00:45:45:28 - 00:46:10:24 Yeah, that's that sound. And it is simple. And I think that's and thanks for sharing that because that does share the perspective. You know, you as as in your role now taking on the leadership position which carries the influence on the style, the approach. It's good to hear your perspective on that because it does account for those those subtle differences, you know, and then sometimes you just take it for granted. 00:46:10:24 - 00:46:29:04 And now the opposite of that would also be the fear of not doing that. And that probably gets broken down in the process of your ten chapters to where you can identify maybe you don't realize that you don't want to do that, but you felt compelled. That's the only thing that you feel the need establish since then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:46:29:04 - 00:46:50:00 I one of the questions we ask is, Tell me something. You're great at that you never want to do again. And people have promoted you because of this. You've won awards potentially for this. But what do you never want to do again? And it is an opportunity for someone to take a deep breath and go, you know, I've done adult day care for a really long time. 00:46:50:03 - 00:47:06:15 I no longer desire to do adult day care. I want to be an I see I want to be an individual contributor on a tremendous team solving hard problems. But I'm just not in the phase right now where I want to make those hard decisions. Maybe I just need about a year. Maybe they won't even be able to articulate this part. 00:47:06:18 - 00:47:33:13 I need a year at Oracle before I feel comfortable in that position. I need to really understand the language and the nuance, how a vertical, how to verticals collaborate together or how potentially they don't, but how you navigate that political environment. And then after a year, I might come back with a different answer. You know, that's that's definitely something we work on. 00:47:33:16 - 00:48:00:28 Yeah. Do would do do you or has there been in your weekly calls a conversation where you either observed the need or been asked to connect dots in the scenario of, Hey, I'm in the situation, I've, I've been out, I'm in the situation at work wherever I work. And this is the scenario. This is the the organizational scenario, whether it's a company or a business or a team. 00:48:00:28 - 00:48:29:22 Here's the organizational scenario I'm in. Can you help me? Can you help me navigate that where you're you're taking a process from separation focus and then you're actually tailoring now to their individual situation? And have you ever had to deal or had to address that? I would say that's that's come up more than once. There's a gentleman who's at another tech company right now who's gone through that a little bit. 00:48:30:00 - 00:48:54:09 And he's he's been a civilian now for about four years. And, you know, he's he's still trying to figure out it's a very large tech company, much like Oracle. So trying to figure out the the culture and the totality of the how you get things done in a monolithic size company where naturally, I think veterans want to move fast. 00:48:54:09 - 00:49:15:24 They want to they want to from we call it from flash to bang. We want it to be very fast. But things move slower in corporations of larger sizes and for good reason. Right? There's share prices involved and so on, so forth. So yeah, I would say that's the stereotypical conversation, maybe a bit episodic, but it definitely happens. 00:49:15:27 - 00:49:36:00 Yeah, Yeah, I would imagine. And that's part of it. D d as we, as we kind of wind down the conversation d Where's the sweet spot for transition that in your experience, because there's no science to it and I'm going to ask you to speculate too, where it now gives somebody the impression on the timeline because it is different for everybody. 00:49:36:00 - 00:50:14:02 But where's a sweet spot that you found in your experience, individual experience, yours or self? Excuse me? And then those that your help supporting their transition. Yeah where you see it's a it's clear this shift is occurring and so there's a I'm six years into it right myself I'm six years into I'm coming up to that in January officially as a transition service member and I would say that it goes in phases and it's, it's, it's like, like a sine wave. 00:50:14:02 - 00:50:39:18 There's there's highs and lows. You have epiphanies and moments. I remember about two years into two years into my transition, I woke up one morning, literally my eyes popped open. My first thought was, I think I made it. I've been paying my mortgage now for two years. My relationship with my partner is stable. I have teammates that I love. 00:50:39:18 - 00:51:18:08 I love what we're doing together. Both of those things were extremely important to me. Love, Love what you do, love who you work with are things that a lot of veterans are looking for, but not necessarily. And it finally hit me like, I think I've made it like this. This is it. And so fast forward two more years and I found myself having interesting conversations with other veterans who are kind of at that four and six year and even ten year mark of of having a epiphanies of I've really become somebody else. 00:51:18:08 - 00:51:45:13 And now I'm wondering potentially what the next chapter is. And I feel empowered about that, at least the ones that if not through THC or the ones that have found success and know how to multiply that success. And so going back to the original question, like where's the sweet spot or where's how long does transition take? Maybe as another way of of asking that question. 00:51:45:13 - 00:52:20:03 I think it unfolds over time. I think veterans arrive at a different places and I think when you surround them with support and you give them some structure to, you know, we don't say we're a psychology or health and wellness program, but the reality is we are I mean, we just we are we're using best known practices in journaling and really deep self work to help you get to where you need to be next. 00:52:20:05 - 00:52:44:05 So when you surround people with opportunities like that, even if they're not veterans, you're going to find that they're going to progress. And the stories they tell themselves are going to be inherently more positive and they're going to find the story that says, Here's the direction I'm going and here's how I'm going to get there, which empowers them to do it solid. 00:52:44:07 - 00:53:16:07 What if it wasn't that? What's the the thing as we wrap that you want everybody to know? As I've gotten older, no longer a young man, I'm probably a middle aged man is probably the right way to put it. I've realized that there are so many things that I not only don't know, I'll never know. And then if I can concentrate on truly knowing one thing, it should be myself. 00:53:16:09 - 00:53:47:02 Because if I know myself at up, I can show up better to help others. And we find our best selves when we're helping others. Like talk about the most satisfaction we can find, the most purpose, the most meaning in our lives. It's when we really show up authentically and do something for someone else. Solving a hard, complex problem, making a big win in business, showing up for your partner, showing up for your children, whatever that is. 00:53:47:04 - 00:54:14:01 Doctor Accelerator is here to help you find the most authentic you and help you move into the next chapter of your life. Solid. And we'll leave it at that party. It's a pleasure. I always feel I'm smarter when I walk away with a conversation from you. Thanks for your time. Congratulations on coming up. Six years of transition that is never ending. 00:54:14:03 - 00:54:21:20 Thank you. All right, everyone, keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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People Focused: Mike Reavy, SVP Security Engineering at Electronic Arts and US Air Force veteran 48:46

25 weeks48:46

48:46

Mike’s clear line of sight into the small things that gave him the tools to be successful is credited to his humility, self-awareness, and commitment to leading people. We talk mentors, change, commitment, integrity, patience, and much more! This is definitely an episode you’ll want to make time for! Mike Reavy - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mkreavey/ David Cross - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-b-cross-b856657/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;25 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve what one of the main podcast, I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode I'm joined by our cohost David Cross, senior Vice President and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;27 - 00;00;51;11 And today we are joined by our special guest, Mike Reavy, Senior Vice President for security engineering at Electronic Arts, and also an Air Force veteran. We're really excited about this episode because of how many slivers of information we touched on. Mike's clear line of sight and the small things they give him the tools to be successful, his credit to his humility, self-awareness and commitment to leading people. 00;00;51;13 - 00;01;12;20 We talk mentors change commitment, integrity, patience, and it's packed with much more. This is definitely an episode you'll want to make time for. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity. In genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;12;23 - 00;01;38;20 David's and Mike's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. All right. Good morning, David. Good morning, Mike. Good morning, Chris. It's great to be back. You know, I know the community is waiting for a while for this, so but we have a special edition today, don't we? We do. And there's there's I'll let I'll let our guest talk more about his intro and things. 00;01;38;20 - 00;01;58;25 But we have Mike Reaves, senior vice president, security engineering over at Electronic Arts. And what we're doing today is we're just tapping into our network. We've been talking about it for many episodes, how our networks are important, how wherever we end up, it's always important to keep in touch with others that you've grown up with or experience in different lives. 00;01;58;25 - 00;02;14;17 And as you get to where you want to be, you know, you call in those not only call them favors, but you call in that chat and say, Hey, we have a conversation that we'd love to get you involved in. Do you want to do it? So David reached out to Mike. Mike said yes, and here he is. 00;02;14;18 - 00;02;31;29 Mike, welcome. Hey, thank you. Thank you. I know. Look, I just to be clear, I view this as a as a real opportunity. I appreciate you guys give me a chance to be out here. No check called out at all if I get a chance to talk About what? We're going to talk about, I want to take up take up the time, and I will do it. 00;02;32;01 - 00;02;49;07 So, yeah, let's start out a little bit with your background, kind of just, you know, the typical stuff where you grew up, the choices you made and how you ended up where you are. And then then we'll get into the get into the weeds. Yeah, yeah. I'll try to make this quick, but like where I grew up on a dirt road in a trailer next to a creek named Poverty Creek. 00;02;49;09 - 00;03;04;05 You know, we didn't have any cable television as the joke. That's that's very real. But my dad, he was. He was. He was a retired colonel, so we were only in the trailer while we were building a house. I don't want to give this scene of, like, deep poverty, even though we did live on a creek and and poverty creek. 00;03;04;08 - 00;03;23;05 But I will say what was kind of crazy about that upbringing, it was in lower kind of lower Alabama, northern Florida. It was technically Florida. But I swear I thought our state song was Sweet Home Alabama, where I grew up. And I had a much different accent. But I did. I did. I did manage to get on the Internet back in the early nineties on that dirt road. 00;03;23;08 - 00;03;40;02 So that kind of was a good signal and sort of where my career went. So that's where I grew up. You want me to kind of go into how I got to where I am now because yeah, so where you are in where you just described and you're building a place and then all of a sudden you're old enough to make your own choices and then you do. 00;03;40;04 - 00;03;58;16 So let's go with that. Yeah. So, So, you know, my dad was a pilot. He flew A-10s in other planes. So I was going to be a fighter pilot like my dad, like all my friends, you know, that I was around growing up and but I also had this deep, deep love for computers. So long story short, like, ended up with an option to go to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. 00;03;58;16 - 00;04;14;23 And I and I took that option to go to go fly. And my first year there, I ended up breaking my back snowboarding, which was Deckard me for any of the cool fighter jets that I wanted to do and made me think a bit about like, Hey, what I want to do in my life. And that's when I actually changed my major to computer science. 00;04;14;23 - 00;04;33;09 You know, to take up this hobby and maybe turn it into a career. Looking back, you know, as one of these great transitions that paid off really well. So I went to the Air Force getting out of the academy. I actually was a communications officer, worked there. Basically, if you guys know Scott Air Force Base, Illinois, there's a lot of commands there, trans comms there. 00;04;33;11 - 00;04;55;05 AMC's command was there. So it was a big installation and I was part of the COM squadron supporting the networks in the late nineties. So as a young lieutenant, I was technically in charge of 10,000 workstations across multiple commands. You know, as you probably know, there is the senior enlisted personnel that knew what was really going on from my first few years there. 00;04;55;05 - 00;05;16;11 And but I really got a deep a deep crash course and had a support network. And that was the time when there were things like the Melissa virus and stuff going on in security. And so I was in charge of messaging, which was basically exchange back then. And the help desk, which got flooded when, you know, the generals in there just couldn't get their emails. 00;05;16;11 - 00;05;46;20 So that was my introduction to computers in the real world. And then actually my, my, I spent all five active duty years at Scott Air Force Base. My last two years I went to a group called Scope, and they basically did. We flew to every Air Force base as a small team and did a kind of a two week optimization and securing of their network, because back then Air Force networks were basically built kind of out of closets, you know, like maybe some tech sergeant knew what to do and built out a domain on windows into it. 00;05;46;20 - 00;06;04;07 So this was part of the Air Force trying to professionalize their networks worldwide. So as a young lieutenant, young captain, junior captain, I was able to fly two weeks on, two weeks off and lead small teams. I mean, just you don't get an experience like that anywhere else. You know, like they they threw a bunch of training at me, but I was hands on. 00;06;04;07 - 00;06;29;02 I had to, like, go convince people that really, you know, sort of bled over creating these networks, that this young lieutenant, young officers and contractors were going to help their networks and then leave. That's a dicey conversation, right? That's how I got started. And then I had a job lined up with a government contractor. It was kind of the dream job as close to a fighter pilot as you could get, but sit at a computer. 00;06;29;05 - 00;06;45;18 It was computer network attack before we really talked about it dream gig. But then I had an option through some friends to interview at a place called Microsoft, and so who says no to that? So I interviewed at Microsoft and ended up, you know, taking that option instead of the Dream gig. Just because I thought there'd be more opportunities, I'd learn a lot more. 00;06;45;18 - 00;07;04;00 And that's exactly how it turned out. I met a lot of great people. Microsoft, one of them is on this call, on this podcast today, and I spent a decade and a half there now media liability for seven years securing the video game company, probably one of the craziest forms of entertainment that exist in the world is video games. 00;07;04;00 - 00;07;21;03 It's massive. Anywhere you have huge value, you had a lot of attackers trying to get at that value. So we definitely have a very important mission as far as it goes. And we take the ability of getting people a chance to play very serious, like life is serious, you got to have outlets. So we take our job very, very seriously. 00;07;21;06 - 00;07;40;21 So so, you know, Microsoft, we got the truth out now, like Microsoft was not a dream gig, Right. You know, so the truth is finally came out and really the dream gig is that you can play, you know, games all day on your Xbox. That's that's what you're saying for everybody. Yeah. You know, the the young 20 year old Mike Reed, he had real mature plans. 00;07;40;24 - 00;07;59;14 Luckily, the world took care and gave me better plans, took care of me, gave me a better plan. So now there's there's little brief vision of like, hey, you know what? Who says no to Microsoft? And getting that chance was pretty eye opening. I just never saw it coming. Yeah, I imagine it's just one of those things David's talked about in the past of some. 00;07;59;14 - 00;08;19;17 Sometimes, you know, your plan, your focus, your intentions not derailed, but you know, you get distracted or something else draws your attention to it and then you make a choice. So when when you were offered that choice, how excited were you and what were you thinking about? Now that wasn't necessarily in your primary plan, but now, now you have a chance. 00;08;19;18 - 00;08;35;26 Now you have an opportunity. Absolutely torn. I was really torn. Like I said, the gig that I had lined up at this government contractor, small firm, if I said the name, it wouldn't mean anything. But I'm sure I'm supposed to say it because they got acquired. But I had friends that had that I had followed through my Air Force career that had joined that group. 00;08;35;26 - 00;09;02;21 And it was all gravy, like everything was set up great and I had signed. And so there was a relationship there and I had committed. And there's a bit about this integrity and like, I just wasn't sure what to do. And then I get this thing from Microsoft that I remember I went to my parents, right, Because this is I'm still pretty young and I just take a week to think and I really kind of laid it out and I said, Well, what I think this company is going to be okay if I say no, and I will just talk to them honestly about what happens to you if I say no. 00;09;02;21 - 00;09;21;00 Because if I hurt you, I don't want to hurt you because it was a small contractor and then too, I looked at it and I said, There's kind of two principles that have guided my career. And one was, Where do I think what choice is going to give me the most options in life? Because the one thing I knew about, like myself in the world was change is constant. 00;09;21;02 - 00;09;41;18 So the more options I have, the more opportunities I'm leaving open, the better I will probably be. And number two is where do I think I'm going to be the most helpful? And the story I had gotten from Microsoft and what they needed, they really needed help. Like this was the crisis in the early 2000 where Microsoft Security was, you know, kind of under the gun and this government contract like they had tons of great people. 00;09;41;18 - 00;09;58;29 Like I was probably one of the least skilled, you know, honestly going there. I was basically getting offered the job because they really liked me. It was relationship. So where was I going to be the most helpful? What was going to give me the most options and opportunities alive? And that guided my decision. Well, I think that comes into the topic always. 00;09;58;29 - 00;10;16;01 We talk about it many times on the podcast is about, you know, the networks and connections, Right? You know, is that the most important thing for, you know, veterans that are working to make a transition or to kind of make a move, you know, in their career? You know, has that changed in the past 20 years since you and I joined now? 00;10;16;03 - 00;10;39;09 I think I think the network, you know, the connections are really important. And I've always viewed myself as really poor at networking. But then if I look back at my career, networking has done everything for me. Like even the job at Microsoft that they got sat in front of me was because I had gone to Blackhat Def Con Solo in the Air Force because we weren't sending people there yet in the early 2000s. 00;10;39;12 - 00;10;57;02 And I stood out to a guy and when we started talking, he realized I was prior. I was active Air Force and his dad was prior Navy and he got to the Naval Academy. So that was the bond. That guy ended up getting me the interview a microsoft. He wasn't working at Microsoft, but he knew the people and he ended up speaking at a conference in Seattle. 00;10;57;02 - 00;11;11;09 I joined him as Black Hat Seattle back when they had it. I had no money, right like as a and some usually used leave. I think, or stuff like that. But I end up like doing the videotaping for Black Hat. That's how I got a free ticket. I slept on the floor of his hotel room because he was speaking at it. 00;11;11;09 - 00;11;28;00 And that's when a microsoft recruiter overheard me talking when we were getting bagels about me getting out of the Air Force. And I had a job lined up at DC. And she said, Well, we're hiring. Why don't you give me your resume and just that thing over bagels. And I went right upstairs and sent my resume to her. 00;11;28;02 - 00;11;46;09 And I remember she told me later, like she was really impressed with how quick I responded, but that's how it happened. So it was networking on both sides, right? So I think that's always been important. And I actually think the best networking I've done is kind of genuine, like people that I like, that I enjoy talking to it ends up flowing, but I have to I have to be conscious about it. 00;11;46;15 - 00;12;01;27 Otherwise, you know, I'm very comfortable, right? I could sit on my couch all day, look at my shoes, have a shoe collection. I could just look at my shoes. Right. And I'm not going to really meet people. So I think it's important to keep those networks alive if you. So he weaved it in there. So I'm going to capitalize on this that you can't see it. 00;12;01;27 - 00;12;27;28 But behind him, I don't know who four, six, eight 2020 pairs about behind him on display colors the whole nine. It's really beautiful actually if you're loving it. So so thanks for that. So the question might then you know because it is tough choice and your two priorities that you're looking at is, you know, the options you know, the most options for you and then where are you going to be the most helpful and how you assessed it. 00;12;27;28 - 00;12;47;08 I mean, that that's not very typical today where it sounds like the depth that what you were looking at is how many people were in the contracting organization. And then did that. Was that the significant influence of saying, well, that lessens the the kind of the decision making process for me to know that they're going to be taken care of. 00;12;47;13 - 00;13;02;14 I'm going to go over here and and create a new path going my perception that was that I mean, I knew they would be I'd actually had a very open conversation with the person who was in charge of the company, the person that recruited me. And, you know, they were they were okay. And that was a big part. 00;13;02;16 - 00;13;17;04 Like if they had said, hey, this is tough, we were really betting on you. We have, you know, you know, because you know how government contracts were like, sometimes they actually booked work based off of the credentials of the people on the bench. And they had said that I think I would have changed my mind, but they were just like that were good. 00;13;17;06 - 00;13;34;29 And then I'll tell you what, like that relationship stayed alive and they ended up working together on some stuff that was not being very helpful for everybody. So I just say like it was done in a way, in such a way that like I was still and still to this day friendly and friends with some of the folks that were part of that group. 00;13;34;29 - 00;13;50;13 And that group is kind of moved on. So yeah, like I think that's a great point is element is like there's an element, as we all know, don't burn bridges of the past and things like that. But also I think is that sometimes maintaining those connections and you know, helping out of you never know that hey, you could help them. 00;13;50;13 - 00;14;04;04 You may have met the right person or you need make a change, but you can you can repay or, you know, kind of reciprocate back to them. And I think that's maintaining those network is a very, very important because you never know you could be one year from now, maybe not for ourselves, but one year is now a five year turn out. 00;14;04;04 - 00;14;23;00 You come across a man, wow. Because of what you paid there, they're there to help you when you need it. That is exactly how it played out. As they needed something down the road. You never would've seen it coming. But it was all done with integrity. It was all done with mutual respect and just open transparency. And as a result, like when it up doing a lot of things together over the years. 00;14;23;03 - 00;14;51;10 Yeah, that's the sorry David said. And I just want to touch on it because when we're talking about the topics that were seemingly just kind of naturally going into is like transition. It's a decision making level, the loyalty of what I had, how do I maintain that? And now when I'm struggling with feeling like I'm not being loyal to this and then I'm trying to go out and do something different, that feeling, that angst, that that uncertainty as to what's going to be the impact it sounds like it turned out. 00;14;51;10 - 00;15;10;01 And that's what I think, you know, for me, I just want to make sure anybody listening is clear on is you can still have that integrity and the loyalty and how you do those things to preserve that. If you just imagine down the line, it's a small world. And I know David's talked about this before, not only veteran community, but also the security communities. 00;15;10;01 - 00;15;29;20 Very small in a sense. Right. So the relationship component, I think was key. And you kind of just played that card well, Yeah, I think I think it played out the you know, looking back as best I could have ever hoped for, you know, Mike eventually, like, you know, you know, and Chris, just talk about loyalty like Air Force, right? 00;15;29;21 - 00;15;49;11 You know, your family's Air Force. And you mentioned Navy. You would actually Air Force people. You would actually work for another service. What where did I hear that before it? Yeah, it is. You know, I've met a few Navy people that I can actually really respect and get along with. Now, tell us about them someday, but we'll go on to that. 00;15;49;13 - 00;16;08;25 But there's been there's an element of, you know, the service is that, you know, it's not just we're all veterans, right? We're all together. Right. And I think that's a connection I think many people don't make sometimes. Is that is that even though we know the Marines are very Marines, but like, hey, we're all together, all you have a common mission. 00;16;08;25 - 00;16;25;23 We think of things like the Gulf War or major conflicts like we're all in together. It doesn't matter what service we are. And I think it's you know, from a network perspective, I think people keep their eyes open and much broader. Yeah, I think it's kind of like sibling rivalry, right? Like, you know, sibling siblings pick on each other because they're bonded because they care about each other. 00;16;25;23 - 00;16;44;02 They can do it. And people see it from the outside to like, what the heck's going on? Like, you guys hate each other, like, now, like we're here in it together, you know? And that's that's why we can do that. Yep. Yes. So, so now you've made the choice and you're obviously looking back now. It was it was a good choice. 00;16;44;03 - 00;17;11;13 It turned out that, you know, there was some connections later down the line. What's happened since then that you felt probably were aren't the things were unexpected or, you know, where you were introduced to things to where there were some contributing factors of how you made your decision, like the awareness or just kind of the knowing yourself? Well, just to explain a little bit on how things progressed since making that choice. 00;17;11;17 - 00;17;25;12 Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you, when I when I made the choice to join up with Microsoft, part of what I had been doing in the military and, you know, you get a you get a lot of this as a young officer, you get a lot of this at the at the Air Force, any service academy. Like I love it. 00;17;25;19 - 00;17;43;17 So when I say something negative, please understand this is totally, totally backed by so much positive. But when you join the Air Force Academy or any military academy, I think they tell you like you're the best of the best, you're the cream of the crop. You're going to be the future leaders of the world, the like. You really get a lot of a lot of talk that you're awesome, right? 00;17;43;19 - 00;18;00;25 And I think part of me started to realize there wasn't much separating me from all the people that I knew that did not go to the service academy. And that started becoming immediately apparent when I got on active duty and I started seeing like the noncommissioned officers that were just amazing and I was like, why do they, you know, teach us that? 00;18;00;25 - 00;18;17;24 They did teach us a lot more, but I just remember that. So I do remember like when I had when I had finally decided to leave the military, which was a tough choice. But what I finally decided to leave the military. I wanted to take a position where I wasn't going to be a leader. I wanted to be an individual contributor. 00;18;17;26 - 00;18;37;20 I just wanted to work like I think I had just been. I was tired of I had been taught leadership principles since I was 17, you know, And I and I my first year at Microsoft, I was working in this group where we dealt with all the vulnerabilities coming in to Microsoft for all of Microsoft's products and the way the team was set up. 00;18;37;20 - 00;19;10;16 You had program managers who helped manage the relationship with all the hackers that were finding the vulnerabilities with all the product teams at Microsoft that maybe had like Internet Explorer Windows, they needed to fix the vulnerabilities and then we had this team that was the the deep technical team that understood the vulnerabilities. And to make a very long story short, after about six months at Microsoft, I realized I was never going to be as good as these tech guys, these deep, deep tech guys that like folks like there's a gentleman named David Ross who passed recently, like just so smart, the best in the world at what they were doing. 00;19;10;16 - 00;19;26;25 I'm like, I'm never going to be that good. Like, I could try. I might get 90% of the way there, but it took me ten times the effort than it would be for me to actually be a people leader and manage people and motivate people like that I could do would be a lot more helpful to the organization and what I wanted to do. 00;19;26;25 - 00;19;40;21 So I think that was one of the first points where I was like, What I want and what I can do to be helpful maybe aren't the same thing at that level of maturity. That kind of hit me. I think it was just it was the caliber of the people that let me realize that. And I think that was one of these other kind of forks in the road. 00;19;40;21 - 00;20;01;23 For me, it's like really what I want and what I what I am best at or what I can be the most helpful doing may not be the same thing. Yeah. And so I was thinking that now when you said that the people that you're surrounded by, so I'm guessing then it naturally puts you in positions in the environment where most of the people are, because I don't know. 00;20;01;23 - 00;20;17;10 And you can tell us most of the people around you were very supportive in allowing you to kind of find your way. Is that right? And I just I think I think where that comes in to like being veterans and stuff is like, yeah, people were supportive and helped me find my way. But the other thing is they started recognizing the stuff that I was taught and how it was helpful to the organization. 00;20;17;13 - 00;20;37;07 And so like, I don't know, you know, if this is going to be universally true, but I'd say it's probably true for the majority of us in the military. We learn a lot. We learn a lot about working as a team, accomplishing a mission, staying motivated, staying focused, working through distractions and keeping on on target. Like we learn a lot. 00;20;37;07 - 00;21;01;06 Like you don't get that everywhere. So this gentleman that I mentioned who was like the best in the world at this technical capability, like he learned a lot, right? But what we learn and it's not something everybody gets like this person didn't learn all that. We get that in the military and that can if you can align that to the organizational needs, that can really accelerate not just your career, but it can it can accelerate what the organization is trying to do. 00;21;01;06 - 00;21;18;25 So I think that's one part of what it was for me. It was like, you know, I had like eight years of leadership training and here I was trying to do, I don't know, like five years of assembly, reverse engineering, you know, in my spare time. So I could do this. One thing I wanted to do as a non leader like that doesn't make any sense. 00;21;18;25 - 00;21;35;27 Like we were I was given this. I was given this experience and this training. I should use it for the best effect. So I think, Michael, you raise a great point of, you know, leadership and things and many companies, right. You know, that of hey, they may have some gaps, they may have some needs and often, often sometimes they may make change. 00;21;35;27 - 00;21;51;19 And I think this is where military veterans are often and can be the best change agents because A, they like you can say, here's the mission, here's the challenges, Right. You know, here's what we need you to do. Right. And, you know, the veterans really know how to operate that say, and they may need to learn something as part of it and say operate, make it happen. 00;21;51;19 - 00;22;11;24 Right. And be that voice. Be that that catalyst and things like that. And often when change is needed, veterans can be some of the best choices in bringing into your leadership team. Absolutely. I mean, just take it to the core. What the military is compared to what you do in the private sector at like just one of the fundamental truth about being active duty in the military, you're probably going to move every 2 to 3 years. 00;22;11;27 - 00;22;34;18 You're probably going to change some sort of career, something every 2 to 3 years. Like you don't have that kind of change baked into private sector tech roles. And we deal with that just on the norm. Well, die bomber in new team, new mission, go figure it out. Get it done like we just that's part of our bread and butter And so like you think about what you want to do to take an organizational change at a private company like a veteran's going to understand how to work through change. 00;22;34;18 - 00;22;52;03 They've been doing it their whole career every few years. Now. Building on that, though, I would say the other point let's sort of take the converse of things is what is the biggest challenge you think veterans is like, Hey, they could be leaders, they can adapt to change, but what's the biggest element you've seen in your experience when hiring or bringing your sons in? 00;22;52;03 - 00;23;13;02 They've transitioning. That is the largest gap or change that they need to make to adapt to the civilian world. Yeah, I mean, this is such this is such a good question. This is such a good question. And I think it kind of varies between where folks are coming in from, like somebody that's coming in with five years versus somebody is coming in with 25 years. 00;23;13;05 - 00;23;35;11 Right. It's different. You know, one thing that's the same is you need to learn the culture of the organization right away. Does it matter if five years, 25 years, you need to understand the culture, You need to find mentors that can help you understand the culture. You probably need to find more than one mentor so you can bounce, cross cross views and triangulate to build your own truth around the culture of an organization. 00;23;35;11 - 00;24;09;02 How the wheel really moves In an organization like 525 years. You got to learn that because it's not going to be the same one that you came from. I don't care what company you're joining unless it's you're going right back into the military. It's going to be different. So he got to learn that. But I'd say, like the folks joining with 20 years, you know, long, historic like great career, like coming in as a leader, one of the things I've seen that has been disappointing and just like I wish you could go different is folks come in with this background in leadership and they think their leadership is going to just naturally push them forward, 00;24;09;05 - 00;24;24;22 that it's going to be recognized and immediately appreciated because of what they did in service to the country. And unfortunately, that's not true. These most companies, they're just meritocracy. So it's going to be. What did you do for me lately? What have you gotten done? What impact have you had? And your credentials aren't going to get you anywhere. 00;24;24;25 - 00;24;42;26 Where your credentials are going to come into play is how you're able to leverage those for impact in the organization or the timeframe that you're there. And I think that's just hard because you come in with a service, this historic career and it's just it bring it built helps you build a network immediately and make connections immediately. But it's not going to get the job done. 00;24;42;26 - 00;25;00;14 You're not going to get a great end of year review because of what you did for 20 years in the military. So, Mike, you're saying that just because you're wearing the academy ring, I don't have to bow down and kiss it? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I thought for sure that was going to happen. I, I end up not wearing the rate because nobody seemed to care. 00;25;00;17 - 00;25;20;07 I was lied to all those years. So there's one. I'm going back to the dad jokes because you said, you know, multiple mentors to get cross views. David We're not talking about David Cross views just so we're clear. But I'm from who? I'm here all week. All right. So the meritocracy, right? So and I think you just landed on something, you know what? 00;25;20;07 - 00;25;44;12 What I feel is expected. What I feel is earned, how I feel about how I'm supposed to be treated. You know, we use the ring as a symbol, you know, an academy grad. But it's basically any any any role to wear even during the academy said, you know, basically you're awesome coming from a workplace situation if you've never even served where you've been told, you're awesome. 00;25;44;12 - 00;26;11;02 You know, we're talking about competency driven evaluations, performance reviews and things like that. To wear hard conversations to help guide people correctly where you're giving them information that is contradictory to how they feel. And David's been a big proponent of this. You know, feedback has the sting and the good ones actually know how to deliver it. Tell us about one experience that burst your bubble, if you will. 00;26;11;06 - 00;26;28;01 my God. Yeah. I mean, an experience. It wasn't it wasn't me per say. I mean, I can give you an experience about me, but that was, you know, I was coming in with five years, but some of that came up with like 20 something years. There was this six and I helped recruit and vote organization. I just thought they walked on water like I didn't work with them when I was active duty, but I saw how they showed up. 00;26;28;01 - 00;26;45;20 I knew a bit about their career or they ended up being the commander of a group that I was attached to as a reservist because I did the reserves for a couple of years, active after active duty. So they were also I mean, I knew what impact they had. The military, they joined, they failed horribly. And I had my fingerprints like I recruited them. 00;26;45;20 - 00;27;09;02 I sold I sold him to people like he joined into this in this role. And, you know, he just never really adapted to the culture. And, you know, I could tell that after a tenured career that got him to Oecs, he thought like rank had its privileges. And what he said would go like really getting people on board when there was no formal authority per se. 00;27;09;02 - 00;27;28;20 I was not especially cross organizationally was not a skill set they had developed and not a skill set that it looked like they really wanted to develop. And so that really burst my bubble. That's when I that's when when you said when you when you ask the question and I kind of just like you can't say it on the podcast, but like, I'm just grabbing my forehead is because that was the one that really hurt. 00;27;28;22 - 00;27;54;28 Yeah, because it hit me that like what got them there did not help them here at the time. And they really and I felt like if this ever happens to me again, you never, ever know anybody coming in from the military after a long career into a very senior role into a private organization like a tech company. I want to grab them and just be like, okay, here's the crash course and what you got to let go of what you're getting yourself into, you know, before they join. 00;27;55;00 - 00;28;10;17 Well, I think that always comes in. I think maybe the biggest mistake for some is that with putting aside all that things of the elite ism and all that, that's like you got to have a great mentor and peer mentor that's really going to give you the here's the hard to heart is like, this is not a mission that you've ever expected before. 00;28;10;19 - 00;28;31;26 And if you're not ready to take this on in understanding this, you're going to fail. You know, the mission is going to fail. Yeah. And like Chris said, I love what you say, David. You know, feedback, good feedback, important, critical feedback has to sting. You have to deliver words really hard. And I think a mentor like that in the context of a manager, an employee, of course that matters. 00;28;31;26 - 00;28;46;26 But as a mentor it really matters too, because you need a mentor that can really bust through that so you can feel it. I remember, you know, going into Service Academy, they had me meet up with this guy before I decided to join is like, I think he was like an insurance salesman who had graduated at some point in his life. 00;28;46;26 - 00;29;10;22 And he told me about how miserable life was at the academy, just how bad it was, how horrible, how he woke up with a in a hole in his gut every day. And I needed that because I still said yes, like I knew what I was getting into. Right. And I think being able to deliver that kind of message is something that you do in the military because you because you got to weed people out earlier, they're going to hurt the people around them, you know? 00;29;10;24 - 00;29;31;14 So I think it's important to be able to communicate that. Yeah. No. And you landed on something that's that's common today, no matter where the candidate comes from, is commitment, understanding, commitment and what that means. And I think what I heard and what you just said is you got something from somebody that potentially could potentially be perceived as negative. 00;29;31;14 - 00;29;55;13 It's you're giving me a negative experience, but that's X, Y, and whatever. But you looked at is like, well, it's real and I'm going to use it. And that just reinforced your commitment to make the decision. Talk about commitment. You know what what are some of the key factors that contribute to us getting past some of those things that we create on our own that prevents us from making the right decision? 00;29;55;16 - 00;30;14;26 Yeah, I mean, I think I think one is we're kind of grown with that. No, we're not. We're not going to let the mission fail attitude and a lot of ways. So whether that's a personal mission or an organizational mission, I think that's part of what we get as a indoctrination through our time in a in a in a military career as veterans. 00;30;14;28 - 00;30;34;17 And so like whether that is we're not going let the mission fail at this. You know, we're kind of in the to use another services term because we don't have this term in the Air Force that you're kind of in the sack. You just kind of grunt through it. Like I remember first a few years of my time in Microsoft, like I was basically my career was doing well because I was the last man standing. 00;30;34;20 - 00;31;01;13 It was just too hard for a lot of people. And I just had the resilience and the commitment and maybe I was too dumb to quit, right? But I just kept pushing through it. That's part of commitment. The other part of commitment is being willing as as David said, to embrace a change and to make a change when when it's early enough, where the change will save the mission and not so late that everybody sees the need, because when it's so late that everybody sees the need, it's usually too late. 00;31;01;13 - 00;31;26;24 But it's easier as a leader to get people on board. But when you see the change before the pain is really there, you have to communicate that change. And people may not believe in the Y yet you have to like bring them along and that's hard and that there's commitment involved in doing that. So that I love this part because it wraps a lot of what you've already talked about, our experience conditioned mindset. 00;31;27;00 - 00;31;54;12 We're instructed, trained and brought to believe on how we can influence outcomes, whether it's change, whether it's I recognize situational awareness, I'm observant, I'm connected to something where I can see it. So let's talk about that piece real quick. When you have somebody coming in, no matter where they come from and you can talk about the veterans, they see things faster, like we see the organizational structure, we see the culture, and we kind of just say, I've seen this movie before. 00;31;54;14 - 00;32;15;05 I already have the answer in my head. Talk about what you just said as far as like leading change and how sometimes people aren't ready to hear it until sometimes it's too late and then then it's easy. But when you're that person that sees it early, what are some of the behavioral components that are gotchas on how we now deliver what we see? 00;32;15;08 - 00;32;32;18 That's really good. That's a really good question. You know, there's a there's this dance. Remember the Nokia burning platform memo that went out and Nokia, the telephone company, the the right. David, do you remember this? Yes. have. And it was becoming pretty clear that Nokia was losing market share, even though they had been the dominant phone maker. 00;32;32;18 - 00;32;50;21 I mean, who who you know, if you're around our age, like you had the phone, you played snake, everybody did. Right. The candy bar, Nokia phone. And after the iPhone, you know, an Android, it became pretty clear Nokia wasn't going to make it. And and they did a burning platform memo. It's public it's kind of famous and like basically saying, hey, we've got we're on a burning platform. 00;32;50;21 - 00;33;06;24 We have to make massive change. I use that as an example of courageous communication, but also probably a little too late. Right. And so like at that point, it was pretty easy to communicate the difference. I'm sure there was a percentage of the population that Nokia felt like everything was going to be okay. Still, at that point in time. 00;33;06;26 - 00;33;20;00 So there are some people that needed the memo, but there was a lot of people and a lot of folks in the market like, hey, they got to make a change. They're not going to make it. So that's kind of a too late thing when you see a change before that, before that, before that pain and you need to communicate it. 00;33;20;02 - 00;33;46;01 One of the big trappings is that people get it. It's the hubris, right? It's just like everybody sees it, everybody knows it. And so when I communicate, it's going to be no big deal. That's a trapping, because what you're going to have is either going to have to use because I said so type language when people push back or you're going to end up having to fight against other parts of the organization, whether inside or outside, that to get them to embrace the change. 00;33;46;04 - 00;34;06;00 And you may never make it finished, you may never finish the change, you may never make it complete fully. It may be so long that you shouldn't have done it in the first place. Could be the worst of all situations. So what it really requires is the ability to bring people on board and communicate a vision and a need and kind of make them feel it as their own. 00;34;06;02 - 00;34;25;27 What was the is it was it a patent quote, general patent quote that said, you know, never roughly like never tell people what to do. Just tell them what's needed. Let them surprise you with the ingenuity. Like you have to give an up autonomy to the people underneath you. We're like, we have this need for change. And maybe they actually know the steps you want to follow in sequence to make that change happen. 00;34;25;29 - 00;34;40;05 But the way that you can actually get that change to land is people make it their own and just sort of point and you can watch and you can guide, especially if you know where it needs to go and. That and that I think is a real skill and you have to have that. I mean, the quote I just gave is from a general in the military. 00;34;40;05 - 00;34;53;23 It's something we learn in the military is how to get people on board with the mission and make them feel embrace it as their own. Yeah, I think that's a great story and things like that. And I think back to my time. It's about resilience, it's about focus. It's also being patient as well and not giving up as well. 00;34;54;00 - 00;35;10;22 You know, I can go back a long time ago like, you know, the Windows XP timeframe and I own the encrypting file system. I wrote this 100 page spec that when you should have full disk encryption, I won't mention names. They said the meeting ended after like 15 minutes. Like we're never going to do this. No one's ever going to pay for this. 00;35;10;27 - 00;35;27;06 Well, what do we do a few years later? we have bitlocker, right? So but like, you know, what Bob Muglia told me is like, you know, before in a different story, it's like it's like, hey, sometimes when you get set back, you don't just quit and walk away. You st patient resilience, right? Stick with it right in the time will come. 00;35;27;09 - 00;36;00;06 Yeah. No, I think that is such a good point. Patience. Organizational patience is a is a learned skill to. I don't think it's something that you're just born with. And I have seen and they've probably seen this too. I have seen what you call them in the Air Force fast burners like folks that are just, you know, amazing impact driven people that can get so much done, just not eight, not able to have the organizational patience and they burn out or they get frustrated or they cause drama. 00;36;00;09 - 00;36;20;12 And and if you can have that organizational patience because there is there's another truth sort of in the market, in the business world, the nonmilitary. Well, I'm sure there's an allegory in the military as well. But like sometimes you have the right idea too soon. The market's not ready. So having the patience to recognize that you can see the opportunities when to slide that and that's good business. 00;36;20;15 - 00;36;36;13 And it's kind of core to what success looks like. I mean, Microsoft had the tablets. Yeah, I joined in the early 2000, so. Right. You know, and right idea, probably not the right time for the market. Like people had to get used to playing on glass first which happened with the iPhone because they wanted their music with them wherever they go. 00;36;36;15 - 00;36;55;07 Once they got used to playing on glass, you could have an iPad, right? And it was a lot more streamlined and having to have a tablet that could spin around and also have a keyboard because people were already comfortable with glass. Like, I don't if that's exactly the way it plays out. But that's that's my interpretation of the way the market worked, even though, you know, Microsoft had some pretty amazing tablet computers in the early 2000s. 00;36;55;10 - 00;37;19;22 Yeah, we had the Zune, which I still use, you know, at my desk. You know, you can see it because that's audio, but I still have the Zune. I still run with it, you know, every day. So I know I now know two people that use the Zune, David Cross and Star-Lord from Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes. But you know, it might going back to a little bit about, you know, the fast burners, like it's, you know, the civilian world, like it's the Ferraris, right? 00;37;19;22 - 00;37;44;24 You're going to have Ferraris in the team. And it is a management leadership. Right. How you got to put the guardrails on the road. Otherwise, you know, you know what's getting jog your gaming language, right? You got a you the open map right at the games while you run all over, right? You know. Yeah. What you know how do how do people you know that are the fast burners of the military survive in a, you know, a slow moving corporate world. 00;37;44;26 - 00;38;01;09 Yeah. No, that's that's a that's a great question. And I love the kind of the analogy there. Right. So you've got one hand, you have Ferraris, but maybe need like some sort of like tank, like a like a like a g-wagon. They can really just push through all the muck and get things done. And how can you make one the other? 00;38;01;12 - 00;38;20;03 And I think actually, as a leader, like you can recognize the opportunities that are kind of paved. Like there are things where like the mission, the organization, the culture all lines up, but you can just run and get things done. And maybe it's not the biggest impactful thing, but it lets the Ferrari run and they sometimes just need to do that for the engine and for that talent just to stay happy. 00;38;20;05 - 00;38;34;01 So you find those, you let them run, but then you kind of use that to say, Now we have another tough gig coming up and that's kind of where you can teach them how to be a little bit more resilient to be that G-wagon that can just plow through the mud and get something done and pull out with it. 00;38;34;03 - 00;38;59;22 Now, maybe someday we'll meet some people that have Ferraris and G-wagon back. See if this analogy plays out in the real world, but bring it and put it in the mud, specifically the job crafting. So as you as you're speaking and I'm thinking about, there's a ton of Ferraris and there's a ton of kit cars that have the body of a Ferrari, but the insides maybe, I don't know, red flier, I don't know, something like that. 00;38;59;22 - 00;39;16;13 Right. So it's not quite made or built to sustain what their what their perception is creating for them to think that they can do these things that fast this way. And that's common. So you just kind of smash some things together. You know, you talked about how veterans, you know, are used to moving around a lot, 2 to 3 years. 00;39;16;13 - 00;39;40;27 If you take that in the private sector, it's like, well, your job hopping. That's how I consider success. It's what the job asks me to do. And I get promoted by take and duty stations and roles and things like that. So there's this interpretive translation that sometimes occurs for those that are smart about how to talk to others and learn more about what they do and how their change is apparent on, on, on paper. 00;39;41;00 - 00;40;20;06 But when it comes to now, having somebody where you understand what their ambitions are and how they're dialed in their capable of doing things, but you see that they're going to get impatient. Have you have you what are your thoughts on now creating that that that role of responsibility from other needs and kind of merging in some things to help pacify the ambition of somebody to where you're creating things that don't necessarily in the original job description, You know, you're actually making me think of another sort of truism that was hard for me to wrap my head around when you say that, which was sometimes you got to be okay letting talent go because it's 00;40;20;06 - 00;40;38;29 the best thing for them and the organization, even if they're amazing and like we are driven as leaders in general to not have negative attrition. You never want a good person to leave. And that kind of works against us. But I will say there are times, Chris, that you cannot do what you said where there there they are. 00;40;38;29 - 00;40;56;24 They are not going to be happy in role where they are. And I will say that, you know, especially in cybersecurity, I'm sure we don't have a monopoly on this, but especially in cybersecurity, when somebody takes a role at a different company, they're not dead. To us, that network is still there. And we talked about that at the beginning. 00;40;56;28 - 00;41;14;18 If you if you help them, I have actually helped myself. I've helped lose talent is I could tell it was the right thing and it was hard because it was going to cause more work for me. Right. So that's one thing I will just say is and then usually like we were talking about earlier, it will come full circle. 00;41;14;20 - 00;41;32;15 And if you have any kind of career, you're going to end up helping each other out again down the road. You know, Spirit is kind of interesting because we actually have bad guys just kind of like we have the military. And so if you really think about it, regardless of the company, in a lot of ways, we are all fighting the common enemy, which are the bad guys. 00;41;32;15 - 00;41;45;23 And so if you think about it that way, it kind of helps me wrap my head around what I just said. But I will also say that there are times where I've had some of my best director reports have really challenged me and they've really made me think about like, am I self-limiting in our mission? What else could we be doing? 00;41;45;24 - 00;42;06;21 Is there another part of the organization that's failing that we can help out in and this person really good at it? So to your point, Chris, about how do you create opportunities for somebody? A lot of times you look at where the where the business need is, like the the the biggest mistakes I made is when I tried to create something for somebody and it wasn't aligned with a business need because corporations are made of people, but they're not people. 00;42;06;23 - 00;42;25;00 Corporations are not people. They're not going to be nice. They have to survive. They have shareholders. You know, they're public. So as a result, like, you cannot get crossways is from what the business needs in the name of trying to get somebody is career ahead, you know. And if you do like maybe you'll get away with it for a little while because there is some slack in there. 00;42;25;00 - 00;42;44;21 You know, you never know. Nothing's it's not a perfect system. There are some friction and some lost. And so there's areas for people to do work inside the system that may not be perfectly aligned with the business and help them grow some skills right there, some room for that. But I will say like if you really try to create a you call a job crafting a role for a fast burner who's, you know, growing outside of their role. 00;42;44;21 - 00;43;00;17 But you think there is a need like tied to the business need that's going to if you don't, that's going to be bad for them and bad for you dog track and and that and that was good. You caught me on that one because that's a good that's a great response is is because a lot of people are fearful of the patriot. 00;43;00;17 - 00;43;20;20 Right. It's that asterisk on them. You know you had X percent a trip in this timeframe. I'm you know, are you a good leader? Are you effective leader? And the reality is the micro perspective is well for the greater good, this person's maybe my business, but the industry could use this person somewhere else. And you just I kind of alluded to it. 00;43;20;20 - 00;43;41;04 You know, you're thinking big, big picture for security. This person could be a great fit somewhere else and still contribute to the greater good of the industry itself. Yeah. So business goals in my mind translates into industry specific things, which is and I will say like we still work for a company. So like if you've looked around and there truly isn't a business need that fits that person's role than yeah, then that's an option. 00;43;41;06 - 00;43;58;04 But where I would make a mistake would be if there was a business, see where this talent could be really helpful and I let them go. I probably made a mistake. So really it goes all back to the business and how they align the business to the person. Well, there's the other element. I think as we all run into sometimes is that every company is not going to grow in size increasing. 00;43;58;04 - 00;44;21;04 You know, organizations are going to grow everyone's and things like that. And sometimes when someone gets hits their peak right in their given role, there's not an opportune move up. When they stay there, they can fester, right, and create more sickness with someone else. Good. They're unhappy because then sometimes it's the best thing to do is to help them go to a better role or where they can move up where they can't in the current organization. 00;44;21;08 - 00;44;39;25 And that's healthy for everyone. Yeah, no, it is. And I will say there's also times where like sometimes folks that that are festering is because they haven't had a chance to have that next layer of accountability. And so for them, they feel like they could they could do better, they could do different, but they've never had that opportunity to have that that higher level accountability. 00;44;39;25 - 00;44;55;19 And they're festering because they think they know how to do it. So you got to give them a chance to get that next layer of accountability to try those things. Maybe they work and they have something to teach a stall or maybe they don't and they're more effective for it and they understand sort of like how to work about that next level. 00;44;55;21 - 00;45;16;09 Yeah, no, it's good. And that that comes down to as we wrap this up to keep things moving, you know, that think critically about work, not only you as person trying to find your way, but how you're responsible for others. One, they're trying to find their way. So you're also required as a leader that's in charge of somebody or has direct influence over somebody's mentor, manager, or doesn't matter. 00;45;16;11 - 00;45;41;02 Think critically about what your skills are or how your perspective is now open enough to see opportunities for others to grow into and then, you know, make those hard choices. On letting people go and digging deeply to find out, you know, where the true business need might lie. If you're not seeing it out outright. So we could have covered a bunch of other things that specifically in the security area, maybe we'll do that for another time. 00;45;41;02 - 00;46;06;12 But Mike, as we wrap this up, anything specific you'd like to let anybody know, whether it's veterans service members transitioning, getting ready is somebody that's been out for a long while still trying to think through change. What would I say? I don't know. I will. Look, nobody's got a checklist like, you know, my dad retired 26 years. He would say, like, there's just not a checklist for some of the stuff. 00;46;06;14 - 00;46;24;23 Right? As a pilot, you have the boldface, you have the checklist. So I would say like for anybody coming in to private organization, you're trying to figure out how to make your way. Don't wait for somebody to hand you the checklist. Look around, figure out like what's going to align with what you want, what aligns with what the business wants. 00;46;24;23 - 00;46;45;09 Don't wait for, you know, some government form to come down with the process and a SRP like make make it happen, whatever the need is, identify it and make it happen. Don't wait for a checklist, because I will say that was probably one of the first things I had to learn. You know, coming in as a young lieutenant early on, Captain just made captain was there wasn't a space for the stuff. 00;46;45;15 - 00;47;06;05 We're all trying to figure it out. And I think your ingenuity is there for a reason. You know, you can help yourself and help your work by just taking that lead. So one thing is, you know, the podcast I was like to mention is like, Hey, what's my book recommendation? And, you know, thinking about presents and other things like the latest book, it's an older book like ten years old, but that kind of came across. 00;47;06;05 - 00;47;21;22 It's called Executive Presents The Missing Link between Merit and Success Highly recommended, I think, to our to our audience and things like that. But Mike, I know in the Air Force you guys don't read books, but so what would you recommend for the upcoming game? The current VA? You know what I recommend as a game. Yeah, why not? 00;47;21;22 - 00;47;54;01 A college football game is college football. I'm not even a football guy, but I had a fire of college football. I think I mentioned I grew up in the South. I had to get an Alabama Auburn game going with my Alabama relatives in town up here in Seattle. So yeah, we've got all kinds of amazing games. And if if sports aren't aren't your thing, keep an eye out for the next battlefield and play the current battlefield because that is as a military you know podcast you know talking to veterans you know call of duty gets a lot of attention but battlefield is pretty amazing and the next one's going to just blow, blow people's minds. 00;47;54;04 - 00;48;15;27 We're excited now. Yeah. Is it really in the game? It is in the game. I was just wondering if we can do that or trademarked. We had one. He said, I'll let you know what happens. And I have to give up a couple of shoes. Yep. Mike, really, It's pleasure to meet you. Thanks for coming on. David Anything as always. 00;48;15;27 - 00;48;31;14 It was easy and it made Mike, you know, mentioned it, things like that. It's not about the checklist. It's about making things happen. That's how you win. Awesome. And say, Hey, this is so much fun. Thanks. Thanks for giving me a chance to come out here. I really appreciate it now. Thanks for coming on and thanks for making time and appreciate your message. 00;48;31;14 - 00;48;45;10 It's it's a it's a sticker. It's going to definitely have an impact on at least one person just trying to think through these things. So thanks. Party one, Keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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Career Chasing: How to Position Yourself When Considering Careers 46:07

25 weeks46:07

46:07

In this episode, David and I discuss how to prepare for career change and choices. We took this opportunity to get David's perspective on how important decisions begin with planning and being flexible. A plan is just a plan and sometimes what we thought would be the path to the goal changes unexpectedly. We need to anticipate that things won't always go as planned and say yes to the opportunities that rise as a result. David Cross - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-b-cross-b856657/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;06 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode and joined by our co-host David Cross, senior Vice President Sass, Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;07 - 00;00;44;12 Here we are, folks. Season three. It's been a while since we've come together to deliver a new episode, and we're ready to kick off our new season with new conversation. These newer topics sometimes bringing back previous guests and maybe we'll go deeper into past conversations. We hope all of you are well and putting in the work to be better. 00;00;44;14 - 00;01;00;15 If not, listen in and maybe we can help change that. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;00;19 - 00;01;08;12 David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;08;14 - 00;01;48;27 All right, so season three, first episode of Season three. We're coming at you for career oriented conversation, joined here with David Cross. Many of you already know. He's our MAVEN podcast co-host and he's got specialization in a particular career field. So as we were talking about what we should be considering to discuss in this new season as we roll into summer, but career choices, you know, this might be the season where many of you are getting ready to transition, whether out of service or from careers where being relevant matters and trying to understand what it takes and what people look for. 00;01;49;00 - 00;02;15;03 David's going to share some information I'll probe a little bit on, you know, before you make the decision, what are the considerations? And we've talked many, many times about this particular topic or decision making process in previous episodes. You hear about it a lot in everywhere else. Probably every self-help book is critical thinking, some sort of element of emotional intelligence, things that go into how you're going to decide what you're going to do. 00;02;15;06 - 00;02;32;03 It starts from, we believe, what do you want to do and the passion that comes through that. And so, David, it's nice to see again. You know, Chris, it's great to be back, right? You know, it's kind of like, you know, I'm we're excited about this next season here. It's kind of like your favorite TV show, you know, Netflix, right? 00;02;32;03 - 00;02;50;00 You know, selling Sunset. I know you get really excited every time there's a new season and kind of like, you know, when they went down to Orange County, Right. They kind of got to change it up a bit and talk about that. So, you know, I think this is going to be a fun season of like we talk about careers, maybe we have some some outside guests, you know, that also help us in like, you know, how do we make this transition? 00;02;50;02 - 00;03;09;12 We want to mix it up and kind of, you know, up it a bit and get people excited about it. So it's sometimes these seasons take a little longer than we like, just like Netflix, but we're, you know, we'll see. We can do better. So if anybody's been paying attention to every episode, David says, I look forward to these things. 00;03;09;14 - 00;03;26;11 It's up to you to decide if I'm really a fan of I don't know what you said. Would you say the sunset selling sunset? You know, I know you like all the real estate and the cars they drive and, you know, the Hollywood properties. So yeah, you know, we'll talk about that another time. Yeah, another time. Yes, it is. 00;03;26;11 - 00;03;46;17 You know, it it is always interesting. You know, sometimes we take a little hiatus to, you know, focus on other things, but also, you know, take priorities as they come. And maybe it's just a another way of just realizing what else can we do to be more impactful and how do we consider, you know, reassess and this is the after action review is like, how were we effective? 00;03;46;17 - 00;04;07;03 And, you know, are there other things that we should try in order to make sure that we're keeping up with the things that people will want to talk about or want to listen to? And so the one thing that we can never get away from is career choices, because we know, you know, that's that that's an important area of conversation in any circle that you're in. 00;04;07;06 - 00;04;30;28 Excuse me, but it's just a matter of understanding the depth in which to go into these these things. And so we're talking security, cyber, career choice. You know, David, I'd like to get into some of the depth of what it what it means to consider what choice you're going to make, what career choice you're going to make. But, you know, let's start with this one. 00;04;31;01 - 00;04;54;21 What matters most? Is it theory or education or experience? You know, it's a great question, Kristen. I know this like a big debate. Like I was at a conference last week and people were you know, we were talking a little bit about is like, do you have to have a degree, you know, to be successful in computer science or do you have to have a degree to be, you know, successful or get into cybersecurity? 00;04;54;24 - 00;05;13;12 And the answer is, I'm going to say, no, you don't. However, right. I think it's really the most important point is there's different ways to get into things, right? You know, just like getting into sports, writing notes to some people. Do you have a professional trainer, some people are. They get their their parents, you know, you know, kind of guide them. 00;05;13;12 - 00;05;29;26 Other people, it's natural. But ultimately, it's like, what is the result you want, Right? You know, saying that if you're a tennis are running, right, you have to have a set of skills, right? And you have to be able to demonstrate those skills. Like right now, I think around the world and certainly we're watching late this weekend, the Olympic trials. 00;05;29;26 - 00;05;45;06 Right. You have to have a set of skills. Are you in the Olympics, are not like, can you take a get a degree and get in the Olympics? No. You have to demonstrate your skills. So I think that's the point here. Everybody is like, if you want to get to computer science, can you write a program? yeah. 00;05;45;09 - 00;06;03;04 Can you show me that you can write a program? Can you put it on GitHub and let me see it? Same thing for cybersecurity, right? Can you pen test? Can you identify a vulnerability? Right. Can you evaluate a threat? Well, can you show me Right. It just like diving. Can you dive in the pool, not make a splash? 00;06;03;04 - 00;06;26;18 Show me. Right. I think it's the best place to start. No, I like that. And thanks for that. And that that I feel like many who would be listening would say, Well, that's the scraping the surface. It sounds like you have very specific examples. And I would assume then if I'm taking notes, that if if you as an expert or would you consider yourself an expert in these areas. 00;06;26;20 - 00;06;46;22 Yeah, there's always debate. Am I an expert or subject matter expert or am I an influencer to say I'm going to say I have 30 patents in the United States and most almost all of them are security. So I'm going to say, yeah, I am an expert for today. Buy that for a dollar selling sunset clip right there. 00;06;46;27 - 00;07;15;18 You see the reference there. Gotcha. That jokes. All right. So 30 patents in the U.S. You correct. Okay. So I'm going to put a pin in that one. We'll come back to it. So, you know, off the top of your head, you were talking about very specific examples of something that somebody would have to prove to you and show you and say, So can you help us figure out what if if I were to be someone who is interested, I have and I'm going to put a pin in this one, too. 00;07;15;18 - 00;07;42;19 I have a passion for technology and it just so seems to now drive me towards security because of either the career field seems to be trending or somebody told me that it's place to a place to go or what have you. For whatever reason I'm interested in it. What are some of the things that I would look at that somebody like you who would, you know, are are you're worth is going to be determined based off of the things that you're able to demonstrate. 00;07;42;20 - 00;08;05;12 What are the top things that I would need to focus on to be able to make sure that I'm aligning beginning my career choice or beginning the skill development that I can make sure that I'm not veering too far away from. Sure, I will. I'm going to go back a little bit to kind of my career and kind of like, how do I truly break into cybersecurity right now? 00;08;05;12 - 00;08;23;24 I think that there's a lot of people you hear about, go take this class or get this certification or this thing's on Coursera and magically you're a cybersecurity person. In the end, I'm going to go back is it's about demonstrate something. So I got into Microsoft. I was in I got I won't do the story of like how I get in Microsoft, but I got my foot in the door of Microsoft. 00;08;23;24 - 00;08;40;02 But I wanted to be in security. I wanted to be in Windows Security. And at the time I was in Microsoft Consulting, just like Oracle Consulting, right? But I wanted to be in the product group. I wanted to be in the Windows Security product group. At the time, I said, Well, David, you know, there's program managers are hiring. 00;08;40;02 - 00;08;59;08 Is that how do I be one? They said, well, program managers, they write white papers, right? They actually speak at conferences to our comfort customers. So, okay, so then what did I do? So I was working with customers and I found a need. Right? Because just like being in like in business, right? You find a need this time it's going to go way back. 00;08;59;08 - 00;09;30;26 This is the Windows 94.0. And they also had a thing called Windows Certificate Server 1.0, an exchange server, and say, How do you connect a certificate server to the Microsoft Exchange Server and CMS so you can actually encryption right in in in your your exchange email deployment. There was no real documentation about this. So what I did is I worked on with the product group and others in my free time and I wrote a white paper about it. 00;09;30;26 - 00;09;51;07 It became the Microsoft whitepaper, like, how do you integrate certificate server exchange CMS and getting it all to work? And it became a public white paper, right? There was a need, there was a demand and people like, bang, this is useful, this is valuable, this is security. And Mr. Cross, you did it. Another element is they said, well, they speak at conferences. 00;09;51;10 - 00;10;07;15 Well, I'm on the clock. I'm in consulting. Right. They don't pay me to go to a conference like now. So I wrote a paper or an abstract, things like that. And I went and spoke at Microsoft Tech. Ed And then I also spoke at the RSA Conference. I took vacation on my own time because they're not going to pay for me to go do this. 00;10;07;15 - 00;10;27;21 I took vacation. I got good scores on. There's to say, this is what I want to do. They said, okay, David, this is nice. But, you know, that's a one year one hit wonder. Like, just kind of like your favorite bands you talk about Chris Quinn before this podcast is Well, I spent time with that. Here we go there. 00;10;27;23 - 00;10;52;29 So I wrote another white paper right? I ended up writing, you know, over the course of a year, five white papers in my free time spoke at two conferences and said, Will you let me in? Right? And I said, Maybe you're not the best that we thought of, but great. You showing the passion things. We talk about this package, that passion, determination, the ability to learn right, and ability to adapt right, customer focused. 00;10;53;01 - 00;11;12;28 And they let me in, right? And that was the start of the journey, right? But coming back to Element is identifying need, right? Identify gap right. Go right about it. Create an artifact, create a deliverable. So how do you demonstrate you can do something? You know, Chris you think about is you know think about kids in school, right? 00;11;13;01 - 00;11;29;28 Things like how do you know what they're doing? Can they write a paper? Can they produce something? Do they have a project that's the trick here. And once you have, it's very tangible. And I would say, gosh, we'd let you into our company. You know what a junior position is like? Yeah, look what I wrote. Look what I can do. 00;11;30;01 - 00;11;52;17 It's very easy to convince someone that you may be eligible for that. Got it. There's a ton of good nuggets in there. Thanks for that. So the need and demand, I mean, that I think probably is a place to start for some of this is to recognize the need. And again, I go back to the individual need and the external need. 00;11;52;18 - 00;12;12;27 Right. So do you need it? Do you want it? Do you need to feel like you X Right. And that I think, is important. Do you feel like you need to do this? Do you feel like you want to do this right? And what's the difference? Right. And I think some of this is circling around a personal passion because you're talking about using your free time to do things that are setting you up. 00;12;12;29 - 00;12;34;05 And I'm oversimplifying it, but it is, in fact, one of those things to say, if I'm wanting to achieve these things, then I, I need to consider how far you're willing to go in order to have success there and some of what you were sharing. Again, you know, cutting it down to very simple approaches is to say, I want to do this. 00;12;34;12 - 00;12;54;17 You use phrases like foot in the door. That's common, especially through veterans or service members getting ready to transition. I just want to get my foot in the door and I will represent recruiting. That was advocate on the side hearing from a candidate. I'm just trying to get a foot in the door. Be careful with that because it's it's important for you to believe that. 00;12;54;20 - 00;13;11;11 And that can be something you keep inside your head. But if a hiring manager hears this from people now, it draws the question commitment. If it means that I I've given you a chance to get a foot in the door, don't misunderstand it to be don't misunderstand that to be something that's going to help you in every case. 00;13;11;11 - 00;13;29;14 Because now I, I as a hiring manager, I may shy away from that because now I'm looking at I want you to be here for as long as we need you and you want to be here. That indicates that you're going to be here until you have what you need to move on to something else because your long term goals don't include what you're interviewing for. 00;13;29;14 - 00;13;44;15 So put a pin in that one. But need demand. Do you want to do it? Do you need to do it? Is this going to be fulfilling? If you're in a second phase of a career, you've probably achieved all the things that you wanted to in the first one. Is this a transition from something that you're well established in? 00;13;44;17 - 00;14;06;04 If it is, you probably already understand the key elements of what to do moving forward. You may be questioning what you've already achieved, has given you the already existing mindset and skill and attitude to represent or demonstrate your desire, your ability in these types of things because you've done it already. But sometimes we get tempted to forget that because it's new. 00;14;06;06 - 00;14;24;09 We think that we have to start from zero, but maybe you don't. So, David, maybe let's hit on that. What? By the time that you were saying before you went into that first role where you wanted to get your foot in the door, what did you already acquire? What had you already acquired and accomplished to get to that part? 00;14;24;11 - 00;14;41;28 Well, I think the I don't know if I've talked about this before, but element is I've looked at the company right. And what is kind of like the basic, you know, kind of criteria they're looking at for someone that would be valuable like. So I was going like, you know, my first role was Microsoft Consulting. What do they need to do? 00;14;41;29 - 00;15;03;23 Right? And so I tried to understand, you know, this is the days before LinkedIn, and I think we had heard of Monster Board was around back then and is like almost 29 years ago. Right. You know, it's like, what are they looking for? You know, what do they want people to have said, I they actually have this called the Microsoft Certifications, the Microsoft Certified Professional, the MCP program. 00;15;03;23 - 00;15;30;16 Right. And so it was kind of expensive at the time, but like, I'm still in the service. I took a a week of leave. Right. And of Malcolm all day is just a convocation of like a week on leave, right. Taking and things like that. So I went to took a microsoft class, you know, my third party, right, Because this is like 30 years ago, you know, like $2,000 or $3,000, very expensive for one week class. 00;15;30;16 - 00;15;48;13 Right. They said, I'm going to go in, take the certification class in tech, not are learning it right, get certified, take the you know take the exam and saying, hey, I've got the bare minimum, like give me a chance because I know that I could demonstrate at this time. Right. Getting those exams in courses were a demonstration of the skills that I had. 00;15;48;14 - 00;16;05;17 Right. That was in addition to that, hey, in my home time. Right. Things like that still in the service. Like I had a computer, I installed Windows 93.51. Right. I'm learning the Windows and T system, right? Because I knew this is what they need people to do. This is what enterprises are doing. This is the job I want. 00;16;05;17 - 00;16;23;21 So I'm going to get hands on my free time doing this type of things. And eventually it did this all. It said Microsoft, give me a shot at it. I've got these skills, right? Can you give me a shot and just just let me in and I'll demonstrate it. And a lot of a lot of work and demonstration of that. 00;16;23;26 - 00;16;48;21 And I got in. And the reality is also sounds bad, but it is the what I wanted is that I was doing consulting other things outside of Microsoft, but I wanted in the club, right. I want in the high tech I took a 50% pay cut to get into Microsoft because it was the long term. I was going for the long term, not the short term win a 50% pay cut of my stupid, but I knew I was betting on the long term. 00;16;48;21 - 00;17;13;05 And that's what you have to think about. Everybody. Yeah, that's the sacrifice. Right? So it's it comes down to just to summarize, what I heard is, you know, fundamentals. You establish fundamentals, certifications is, you know, top layer of understanding through information, right? You're getting the acclimate to be familiar with. And then what the key thing here is the connection. 00;17;13;05 - 00;17;35;08 And we've already talked about this, how important it is relationship building, right? So when you're when you're asking things of others, it's the reciprocating value, right? It's I'm give me a chance. I'll give you this. Give me your time. I'll give you this. You know, there's there's that part. So the relationship building seemed to appeared to have been key because you're you're you're you're asking somebody to bet on you. 00;17;35;10 - 00;17;57;10 And so through this demonstration of things, you know, it's it's important for us to remember that. The other part here is you said it, you took a 50% pay cut, which means it's only half. Remember, I was talking about you don't have to start from zero if you already acquired or accumulated something. So I know it's not the same, but just the context of some being symbolic. 00;17;57;13 - 00;18;16;05 You didn't take 100% pay cut. You took a 50% pay cut. So it means that you were in some place and then you wanted to shift and you did these things to prove value. You established yourself in a way to understand the fundamentals of not only the skill sets, but relationship building to to get somebody to want to listen, let alone bet. 00;18;16;08 - 00;18;33;10 And then, you know, you had to make a sacrifice and you determined what was going to be acceptable for you based off of the perspective that you have. This is a long term game. This is this is the marathon versus the sprint thing. I think you put I think you got me spot on there or, you know, four things. 00;18;33;10 - 00;18;51;18 It's like it's a transition. It's a choice. Right? And you take with every choice, it's kind of like there's opportunity costs, right? You know, there's physical cost, there's logistical costs, all the things. And you make these choice for that transition and that's what you go for. You're making a bet, right? Just like you make a bet on the roulette wheel in Las Vegas. 00;18;51;18 - 00;19;17;16 Right. You're making a bet is that return can be big enough. I bet the return was going to be big enough and it proved to be true. But and that's what it's all about, the choice you make. Yep. Choices. So. So let's. Let's go then. So now. Now we've established kind of the mindset you should have, right? This is, this is, you know, for those of us and I'll split it up into some categories to make sure that I'm speaking to each of you, whoever you are. 00;19;17;16 - 00;19;38;26 Right? So there's the early career folks beginning, which means that you've spent your latter part of, you know, your late teens, early adult life doing something to get to somewhere. So I'm speaking to you. You know, we're talking about those the mid-career midlife stage, right. So that could be, you know, anywhere from the mid to late twenties, all the way up to whatever. 00;19;38;26 - 00;19;56;22 Fill in the blank. Right. And then you've got the other right. And that's those of that of, you know, if you go by a job description, it's, you know, 0 to 3 years, 3 to 5 years, you know, 8 to 10 years. Think of it in the context of that. When when you're looking at qualifications, somebody is presenting you what's what's necessary to qualify for this role, to have a conversation. 00;19;56;24 - 00;20;14;16 You're determining at that point, do you do you match? And if you don't, you're thinking about who you are and what you bring to the table. And then you're you're landing on what am I willing to do and what am I willing to not do? What am I willing to sacrifice? So you're building your boundaries. That's important. So now you're at the table. 00;20;14;16 - 00;20;43;13 You have this conversation and you land on the opportunity where somebody is presenting it to you and then says, okay, show me. And then, David, you had mentioned, you know, I've done these things, so I'm going to kind of mix this really quickly into this next questions, because what does it take to get to 30 patents? Well, I have been in the industry for 30 years almost, but what does it take? 00;20;43;15 - 00;21;06;10 Well, the first part is like many things, it's it's like, you know, a running race. Right. What's it take to complete a5k? What's it take to complete a ten? Okay. Well, the first and foremost, the first one's the hardest, isn't it. Right. But with that said is how do we mostly get through the first one? It's usually because you have an inspiration. 00;21;06;12 - 00;21;27;11 You have someone that you look up to. You have a model, right? And often I think for many of us, for you know, that really get into running and races, especially after our, you know, high school, college, whatever, just in life saying, you get to go start doing a you're going to go do a half marathon, someone inspires you, someone coaches you, Right. 00;21;27;18 - 00;21;52;07 How you find someone, right. To help you through that first one. And after that, it's kind of like after you do your first five K, Chris, you know, is in the second one much easier. No big deal. Right? And I think that's what happens is you get you get that a coach and I think that's a big part of our topic here is you find someone inspires you, someone this that motivates you, find someone that can help you through that first one. 00;21;52;10 - 00;22;20;17 It just like in the career and from there it's then, you know, practice, practice, practice. Got it. Thanks for that. And that was intentional because a lot of us want, metaphorically speaking, we want the three patents. Now, I want to get to where you are, David. Now, why I'm asking that question after establishing what we did early in this conversation is because it takes it takes a couple of things to get to that part clearly. 00;22;20;17 - 00;22;42;28 And I'm not trying to be insulting to anybody who's listening. What I'm saying is, don't forget, it takes a while to get to the part of what you're going to consider to be the goal. And you don't know when or how long it's going to start or end, let's say. But you got to decide. You have to decide what it is that you want to do. 00;22;42;29 - 00;23;02;09 You have to now consider what it is that you're willing to do and not do, and then you present that and then you start. And I think any entrepreneur will appreciate this. Just start like you indicated, here is the first one may be the hardest, but we often know that if I'm not familiar with it, it's not comfortable. 00;23;02;11 - 00;23;20;05 I'm uncertain. I don't know what's going to happen. And that sometimes creates the self-talk to where we hesitate, we procrastinate. We, you know, we set it for next year. Tomorrow, we always say, I'll get it to the next time or whatever, but just starting is going to get you in the mix because it's not a one time one hit wonder. 00;23;20;07 - 00;23;53;07 It takes repetitive motion in order to get to the parts that help you understand through the experience what it takes to build the experience that when you get to experience or when you get to demonstrate it to somebody, they can hear it in the examples that you're providing. So you chose to go into this field. What were the determining factors after you've gotten your foot in the door and as you progressed, you know, what are some of the things that you seem to have introduced to keep you, I guess, moving forward? 00;23;53;07 - 00;24;13;03 But more, more so, you know, not only maintaining your motivation, but your inspiration, your desire to continue to grow. What are some of the things that you can talk through as far as what got you to want to continue? Well, I think it's hard. I think, well, I'll give you the hard part and then the easy part, Right? 00;24;13;05 - 00;24;36;25 The hard part is the reality is you need to work on something you love, right? And because it's hard to do something for 30 years unless you love it. Right. And I think there's a lot of people that say, hey, you can make more money doing X, right? Or but you really love working on cars. Right? You know, is like, can you some people can do it, others cannot. 00;24;36;25 - 00;24;57;03 Right. I think the thing for me about what I loved about security is it's always dynamic. You know, I think one of my strengths and weaknesses is that my brain is always working right. It's always going to be moving If I'm not, I can't sit there for 5 minutes and my brain not working, I'll go crazy. And so I have to be reading or doing something or running, running. 00;24;57;03 - 00;25;16;19 I can't be running without listening to something. I'll I'll go mental. You know, I have to let a podcast. So the thing about security is it's always dynamic, it's always changing. Everyone says it's always a horse race between the attackers and the defenders because it's always a horse race is very dynamic. And for me, that keeps me energized, right? 00;25;16;21 - 00;25;34;23 And because of that, then also also there's a demand. Let's do the simple economics thing, supply demand, right, to supply people that want to or can work on security and the demand of people that need to work on security, great. It creates a nice economic benefit right on that. And so I like things in life are simple, as simple as that. 00;25;34;23 - 00;25;55;09 So great, you know, it's a win win. And so I think that's what continues to drive me. There's always ways to move up, but you do reach a point in your career and say that, Hey, I'm happy, right? You know, because it's about we got the topics of work life balance. Work life choice, you know, is what people think as you move up in the world and move up in the ranks of a company in management, Right. 00;25;55;11 - 00;26;15;00 Life gets easier. It gets harder and harder. You always have to make a choice. It's like, what's enough? Enough's enough right here at the right balance. But that's a whole nother, I think, podcast on it right? But also, I'm going to go back to another point here is you talked about moving up. Is that the again, it's about a marathon, right? 00;26;15;00 - 00;26;28;28 It's a career at the long term is that I think I talked about it at a conference last week is that you stop, you get your foot in the door and you don't move to the top of the ladder in two years. Right. People that say, I want to be in security, I want to be a CSO, right? 00;26;29;00 - 00;26;46;05 It took me 30 years to be a C, so right here, 25 years to be a C, So right. Did I do it of one step like I became a leader of a five person team. And my next step is to become a CEO of a 300 person team? No, it's about a long term marathon plan. It will take time. 00;26;46;05 - 00;27;14;12 Right. And you're making a bet to get that point. And then you peak, you know, but it's not a it's you have to think about all the steps along the way. And those steps could take you 15 years. Did you know that when you started? I did. I did. I think is you know, I could say the my dream when I joined Microsoft at the beginning, I says, you know, the product people said, after ten years, I want to run, you know, building 26, Building 26 was it was windows at the time. 00;27;14;12 - 00;27;32;13 So I want to be running windows. Right. Be a vice president of Windows. Now, ten years later, I wasn't running windows, but ten years later I was running Windows Security Organization. You know, so I said a big aspiration, a big goal. I didn't get the at the end, you know, the full thing, but maybe it was little bit too aspirational. 00;27;32;13 - 00;28;01;08 But I got a big, you know, major achievement, you know, going from nothing to ten years. I'm running the Windows Security organization, something that affects the whole world. Can't complain. Well, in that and you and you hadn't planned for that. I never had say this clearly. It wasn't part of your plan to be that specific in Windows security because you were wanting to do just Windows, not just windows, but focus on Windows, which for me, not knowing the depth of it, is different, I'm assuming. 00;28;01;11 - 00;28;23;12 Was that a shift in your original plan? I mean, you know, did you realize that you were moving away from your original plan as it was occurring? Because sometimes when you're in the middle of it, you don't realize what's happening. So was that was that something that was occurring where you realized all of a sudden or did you see it evolve over time and then you started if your mind's always working, did you already connect this as things were happening? 00;28;23;12 - 00;28;43;25 You you were keeping a pulse on the shift away from the original goal. Yeah, I think, you know, I think that's a great question, Chris. I think it's it's kind of an evolution as you evolve. It's like you set a plan, right? And there's an element of you see some benefits of things and like what you get into a rhythm on you know, it's kind of like running routes. 00;28;43;25 - 00;28;58;13 Let's go back, you know, is the word of analogy. Like you start to run like, I'm going to run a marathon. But then you're saying, what routes do I want to train with? What routes do I'm comfortable with, What shoes do I like? Right. You kind of start to get to really to say, you know, yeah, I would do a marathon, but I'm not going to do a trail marathon. 00;28;58;13 - 00;29;15;00 I'm not going to do a Boston marathon. I just want to do a nice flat marathon or I want to do one that's, you know, of, you know, this type of terrain or you know, of type of things. And that becomes your preference And you're like, that's okay, right? You know, you adjusted because of how you feel, how you get comfortable with it. 00;29;15;00 - 00;29;31;06 And that's a big part of it. And as I got more and more security, that's where I wanted to be. I realized, no, this is me, right? This is who I am. I'm not the Boston Marathon type. And my going to try to be that right. And I'm happy with that. And so that's I think exactly you described. 00;29;31;06 - 00;29;50;01 I got it. So excuse me. The message then is don't forget who you are. Right. And the things that you've achieved indicate who you are. And if you want to have stretch goals, it's absolutely fine. But just keep in mind, because what we're not wanting to do is have you be tempted to stay where you are and then use the excuse? 00;29;50;01 - 00;30;04;24 Well, that's just who I am. No, Sometimes it's a choice in certain things to where it's who you choose to be. But if you want something different and you go back to what we just previously talked about, you know, what do you want to do and how do you envision yourself getting to where you want to be? What are you going to sacrifice? 00;30;04;24 - 00;30;30;17 Those types of things. So so always a demand, always changing. You'd mentioned that today. How important is security? Well, as you see in the news every week and it's kind of like, we did a podcast or we talk about, hey, the we've got a deal. I think this one will come out later. But like in of all the car dealers, right, You know, the software used by all car dealers. 00;30;30;17 - 00;30;48;19 Right. They're all shut down, right. You know, because of ransomware and cybersecurity. Right. It hasn't ended. It's you know, it's continued to be number one for until I die. Right. I'm going to say that for sure. Right. Of confidence in saying that. And I also plan on living for a much longer time, not looking. I die quickly here. 00;30;48;19 - 00;31;08;16 Everybody will keep running those flat marathons. You'll be fine. There's no risk. I pulled back, right? Is like I'm not aspirational. Go for marathons anymore. Half is good enough for me at this stage, but it's still important, right? That's great. It's something I love. It's still important. You know, I've chosen that and I stick with it. Right. But the same time, Right. 00;31;08;17 - 00;31;28;04 I hope I have switched companies. Right? I was at Microsoft, which I love, right? I went to Google. I've been Oracle. I do make switches, right? Because sometimes you just say that maybe I get too comfortable or like, hey, I'm not you know, I'm not expiring, aspiring to anything anymore. Right. And that's when you take that little bit of a a minor reset or a minor shift, Right. 00;31;28;04 - 00;31;47;00 Saying I need to adjust a little bit, make a move and where you go. And I think that's where the most enjoyment comes from. The do you think or how do you think technology influences that last part where there's always a demand it's not going to go away as technology becomes now, everything you know, again, I'm summarizing, right? 00;31;47;00 - 00;32;07;26 But how important is it where the technology or the the place in which you do this, how important is that in your decision making? it's very important. And coming back to our conference last week, they spoke it is there is discussion which are about CISOs in a technology and people staying up to date. Here's a reality. Someone called it out. 00;32;07;26 - 00;32;25;08 I said, CISOs, if you're not learning A.I. right now, you're pretty much you're done in two years, right? A.I. Artificial intelligence is not going away. It's going to affect almost everybody, right? We go back to, you know, computers 20 years ago. If you're not learning, a computer are going to be able to keep a job. No way. Right. 00;32;25;11 - 00;32;51;28 Nowadays, can you can anyone get a job and not use a computer anywhere anymore? Right. Almost impossible. Right. There's maybe a few things. Agriculture, maybe not. But putting that aside. So now looking forward in many of our jobs is not just technical people, but he is part of the life for the rest of our lives. Right? If you can't adapt to that, you cannot learn that you're going to be stale in two years. 00;32;52;02 - 00;33;19;06 Right. And I think that's the reality. And two years may be an arbitrary time selection. Maybe not. I don't know. It doesn't matter. But the point is, whatever the timeline is, it goes by quick. Right. And so the preparation, the steps involved in order to get you ready as an individual that's looking to pursue something either for the first time or transition from where you are into something different, which is in the space security. 00;33;19;08 - 00;33;42;15 There's things there are things involved that takes time to accumulate based off of everything that we're talking about. So with that, what do you feel is the most significant change that's occurring outside of what you just talked about? Outside of I boy, that's what A.I. is going to change a lot, right? I think in a lot of good things, you know, But, you know, I won't say necessarily bad things, right? 00;33;42;18 - 00;33;59;07 You know, born and raised in Detroit. Right. And they said, you know, the seventies, eighties, Right. Robots are going to kill all the manufacturing. Now, they didn't. It was just a shift. Right. I think I give you the same thing I think is what's the other you know shift is I think the air power is still the biggest one. 00;33;59;12 - 00;34;22;29 You know, top of mind is that how do we there's a good analogy that or a talk that people say that the people that use AI are going to be more productive than ever. Right? That people who don't use AI are the people that are going to be in trouble. Right. And I think that's reality. So, Chris, are you not using AI in creating the transcript for the podcast? 00;34;23;02 - 00;34;43;00 We are. See, did you think you think about it three years ago? Could you think of that? You thought of that, that we would, you know, have a you know, in thought of that would you know, that's a great point and half jokes but not because that change adapting to change I think is kind of the the subsequent parallel here. 00;34;43;00 - 00;35;01;00 Right. It's a for me, that particular case when I was presented with, hey, we're shifting the format now you have to review the document. I was absolutely not on board initially, right. And it was because it was to me, it was an inconvenience. I had to read through it. Is it is it translating properly what it did do? 00;35;01;02 - 00;35;30;03 And I'll be very specific with this had this conversation last night, as a matter of fact, with a couple of my peers in the team that I was working on. It's making me better as it translates in the way that I'm communicating. Am I articulating? Am I enunciating how I'm speaking is actually now being captured in a way to where I'm looking at it and say, and I use that kind of a symbolic way of understanding if it's if it's putting into words the language that I'm using and the way that I'm phrasing things. 00;35;30;05 - 00;35;49;19 Is it understood on the other end? Is it being received properly? And so I'm looking at it from that perspective that allowed me to find something in the inevitable right changes and inevitable right. We do it every minute of our life. It's changing and evolving. But I had to I had to get my head wrapped around the reality that here's the thing that we love to do. 00;35;49;19 - 00;36;09;16 We love having the conversations technology that's using or that's being used in order to improve. This particular offering is incorporating A.I.. It's using now that technology to take words and make it available and accessible for other people. So I had to kind of think and rewire my brain on how I'm adapting to change. And it took a minute. 00;36;09;18 - 00;36;28;29 And then after a while, I started to establish a better understanding of its use through critical thinking and emotional intelligence, just consideration of others. I think, is the premise of it. It's going to be beneficial to somebody. So then I was able to adapt to that. And I think that is the the initial reluctance, you know, kind of what you're hinting is obvious. 00;36;28;29 - 00;36;48;25 Hey, Chris, you're using it today. You know, did you know? And the answer is like, yeah, I didn't really think about it until later. So there's that. I think that's part of the process also is, you know, spinning it back to career choices. It's not going away. And it's not just technology is not going right. Security is absolutely not going away. 00;36;48;25 - 00;37;11;13 In fact, it's, you know, one 2% necessary for everything that's here. The changing of it, you know, the things that are involved includes not only the use of it, but how it's now being are influencing society in ways that it's modifying the way we're thinking about what we're doing right. And it's giving us a better estimate of how effective we are. 00;37;11;13 - 00;37;31;18 And I use my example, use yours, but it is helping make you better if it's used properly, right? I mean, there's other things that, you know, when you kind of how do you say when you take it and not take it for granted, but you abuse it, you know, and used for other things, There's that too, which is kind of indirectly the same, but. 00;37;31;20 - 00;38;08;04 All right. So going back to careers, somebody decided this is what they want to do. What can you tell them right now today, if somebody was in front of you asking for that that break, what do you say? The. Yeah, the you know, the I have to say, I mean, to go back to A.I. right now, there's of compared to like machine learning from, you know, ten years ago it was very hard to learn and it take a lot you know, but almost people had to go back almost to college or college level, you know, kind of education to really how to use it. 00;38;08;07 - 00;38;33;24 A.I. is much different, much simpler. And there's a huge demand for people to use A.I. and how to use A.I., everything from prompt, not just from a security perspective, but I think as if anybody wants a leap in a change. Right now, A.I. is crystal clear. There's lots of opportunities, and if myself, I'm learning it because I don't want to be phased out to be stale in two years. 00;38;33;26 - 00;38;49;23 But if anybody is, you know, saying you got a little bit of freedom, you got a little bit of time, and it's not going take a lot of time, and you want to jump into a new world that's exploding and not going away, jump into A.I. and there's training and education, other things jumping in. There's tons of opportunity. 00;38;49;23 - 00;39;09;15 Everybody, I'd like to see that someone actually knows A.I. and how to help implement it, you know, in a company or applications or other types of things, you can't get a job. Yeah, I think something else is wrong. Got it. What would that be considered From what you just said, like the most basic place to start, Is it just diving in? 00;39;09;15 - 00;39;32;23 I mean, how. How would I know exactly where to start today with what's available in order to not get ahead of myself by just doing a search for A.I.? Learn A.I., and then you start there where I don't want to start in the middle. I want to start the beginning. Yeah, I think there's a limit. So I think there's tons of things on Coursera, Microsoft, Oracle, others. 00;39;32;23 - 00;39;51;15 Right? You all have had introduction to A.I. and how to use it in their systems and actually getting to be an implementer or a user, right? Or someone that can be a practitioner, you know, in these things is all these companies are looking to implement. But not everyone's ready to jump on it. Like is like many companies, they want to start doing it, but they need some help, right? 00;39;51;15 - 00;40;07;13 You're like, Great, Google learn it, right? And then you can help other companies that need that talent. Because I know there's there's many companies, especially small and medium businesses especially. Right. It's like they're going to have people learning and onboarding to this in helping them know they need it. And they're going to hire people that can help them with that. 00;40;07;17 - 00;40;34;09 And that's an opportunity when there's a need, that means that's something you go after, right? And it's crystal clear everyone's trying to do it. Ooh, I was getting ready to kind of just taper us off to the start. But you just mentioned one thing. How do I stand out from others if everybody's doing it and everybody's using it and everybody's trying to learn how to do it, how do I stand out to be the David of 30 years ago today? 00;40;34;12 - 00;40;48;22 You know, I think coming back to an element is, you know, showing the the the artifacts of that. Right. It's you can start for easy. There's lots of things. Do you do you have a blog right. Do you have a podcast? Do you have a video blog? Right. You have a YouTube channel, right? Do you have a GitHub repo? 00;40;49;00 - 00;41;10;23 Do you have a medium, you know, kind of or substack, you know, kind of things? If you know some things, write it down, create an artifact, right? It's not about writing big white paper to write a blog, you know, do a podcast, you know, things like that, build your repository, build your portfolio of things you know how to do, and then you put it in your resume and say, Hey, Chris, you know, I heard you're looking for someone. 00;41;10;26 - 00;41;25;05 Take a look at my work right? You know, say people like, I look at your resume, I don't know if you know, do it like, hey, go look at my web, my, my YouTube channel, go look at my my medium blog and things like that and show you that I know what I'm doing. Right. And and guess what? 00;41;25;08 - 00;41;45;03 People will be interested, right? Because it's so easy. Because they don't have to interview you. Because people do it. Like interviewing people that might be worthless. No, it's a waste of our time, right? We only want to interview people that we think are going to pass and are be great. Right? But if you make it so easy for someone to see that what you can really do in total safety, right? 00;41;45;06 - 00;42;01;10 They're like, great, They're going to pick it. If you got the stuff, they're going to grab you really quick because it's so easy and safe for that, right? Do the investment. I know. Chris, do you like to be you know, you want to be a movie star, You know, many years ago. Right. And you had your your portfolio of all your pictures and everything's like that. 00;42;01;10 - 00;42;15;26 You got to have pictures, right? You got to be a movie star. You want to be a model. You got to have pictures, kind have a portfolio. So you want to be an eye, you want to be in security, you want to be in, you know, technical create your portfolio, make it available publicly, and then point people at it. 00;42;15;28 - 00;42;35;02 Now, I have to say, you're bringing up things that I'm wondering if you're trolling me and because you're in security, are you are you doing is there some subversion here that you're actually finding things out about me and you're finding in the depths of the dark web? I'm understand. Anyway, and we're back. So. Yes. Got it. So it tracks. 00;42;35;02 - 00;42;52;13 I mean, everything that you're saying, David, is it saying, you know, there's there's effort involved? Probably having a solid plan. Initial plan doesn't have to be 90% bulletproof, but you need to start with a plan that's going to help you where you are, get to the next step or to have a vision with Chris and see if there's a plan. 00;42;52;13 - 00;43;11;06 It's like I say, let's go to military, right? What's the target? Who is the target? What is the target? Then you build the plan to take out that target. Right? Fair point. And you said that in the past. I mean, you're consistent in that. You need to understand where you want to go, but also anticipate that things will things will change along the way. 00;43;11;11 - 00;43;28;03 And you were a good example of that, right? So in ten years, your plan shifted a little bit, wasn't entirely off base. It was just, you know, the azimuth just veered off from the original target in this case. So, you know, but be gentle on yourself as that occurs. Right? I mean, I think this is one of the things that's important for us to know that. 00;43;28;03 - 00;43;50;25 Nobody's harder on us than ourselves, I would hope. Right. Because that keeps us dedicated and disciplined. Right. And, you know, the motivation is you. It's not something external influence, you know, that's inspiring. It's not motivation, things like that. I think it's just a matter of be true to who you want to be. Right. Understand who that is, how you envision yourself, you know, a year, two years, five years, ten years from now, what do you want to do? 00;43;50;25 - 00;44;15;21 When do you want to retire? When do you want to separate from the workforce and live your best life in the ways that you imagine? Whatever it is matters less, but have that trajectory lined out with a variation, an understanding of a variation of degrees that will occur over time and be okay with it. Give yourself permission to be okay with change and then, you know, read the transcript in the know how it can be used. 00;44;15;21 - 00;44;54;10 Just to use myself as the example of what change includes. Any, any last comments? David And that's kind of I think the is I think always always expect the unexpected, right? You know, and things like that. It's like, you know, is, is we get into rhythm, we get happy with the way things are going, making progress. But then always be aware that hey, the unexpected, right Could be a minute from now, a week from now, a year from now, always being aware, being always self-conscious and is part of that I think is we've talked about before is like be self-critical, always asking, you know, feedback from others or your peers, your mentors, like where am 00;44;54;10 - 00;45;08;27 I going to stumble? Where am I about to fail? What am I missing? If you don't ask that, you know you're going to get blindsided every time. Yes, And that's a great point, too, because you've mentioned that before. You know, feedback having you're in your circle, somebody that's willing to give you the hard feedback that should stay. Right. 00;45;08;29 - 00;45;27;16 And that's the best quote that I've heard from you. Top, top three at least. Probably number two of the reality. You know it. You want to hear you want to hear those hard realities from others to help you get better. So thank you, David. And if anybody has any further cause I know we're just scraping the surface on this, I hope it was helpful for everybody. 00;45;27;16 - 00;45;47;17 But, you know, if you're if you want to shift careers or enter the workforce in the in the security space or A.I. or whatever, David, is it okay if people reach out and if so, how? Absolutely. You can find us on LinkedIn, you know, things like that. Always happy answer. I answer everybody that's always looking for some advice or connections, things like that. 00;45;47;19 - 00;46;06;26 I can't take on mentees at this point, but at the same time I always ask questions are answer questions, and in return I'll say, Hey, please listen to our podcast and kind of spread the word. Yes, please. All right, everyone, keep moving forward. Let's roll.…

MAVEN

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Change: Shaping Context to Move Forward with Dr. Justin Smith 49:27

1 year49:27

49:27

We're excited to have Dr. Smith join us to share his thoughts surrounding change and how we respond to external and internal factors. We cover considerations of how we can prepare and where we may learn to make minor adjustments to how we perceive external environmental situations by better understanding context. This is one of our more exciting episodes where we're provided the opportunity to discover more about, not only ourselves but also how we may consider ways to serve and support others through change. A Dr. Smith quote from the conversation: "Bring it every day". We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So, let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinsmithphd/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissspencer/ X: mrdbcross -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;18 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight Employees, Partners, organization fans and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And today's episode, I'm joined by our co-host David Kross, senior vice president and SAS chief Information security officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;24 - 00;00;51;16 And today we have a special guest, Dr. Justin Smith, neuroscientist, CTO and passionate advocate for data analytics and all things stress. We're excited to have Dr. Smith join us today to share his thoughts surrounding change and how we respond to external and internal factors. We cover considerations of how we can prepare and where we may learn to make minor adjustments to how we perceive external environmental situations by better understanding context. 00;00;51;16 - 00;01;11;17 This is one of our more exciting episodes where we're provided the opportunity to discover more about not only ourselves, but also how we may consider ways to serve and support others through change. A Dr. Smith quote from the conversation Bring it every day we have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. 00;01;11;18 - 00;01;25;23 Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Doctor Smith's and David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;25;26 - 00;01;46;09 MrdbCross How is it going, sir? Chris It's great. I'm excited that we're now getting more guests on our podcast because we're going to get up there. You know, we're going to have more listeners than the All in podcast, so just stay tuned for 2020 for everyone. There you go. Today we have a special guest with us, Dr. Justin Smith, and he'll introduce himself and his brief background. 00;01;46;09 - 00;02;04;08 But you know, what we're talking about today is how to how to maneuver and navigate through change. Dr. Smith Absolutely. Hello. Thank you very much for having me. My name is Justin Smith, and my background is in neuroscience. That's what my Ph.D. is in. And the reason why people I jokingly say I won't make my brothers call me Dr. Bias. 00;02;04;08 - 00;02;35;00 Just you can call me Justin, but my Ph.D. is in neuroscience specifically and stress and decision making. And I get asked or brought in to help work with groups that groups or individuals. Interesting. An interest in enhancing their decision making under extreme stress, but also understanding how the brain works under dynamic circumstances. And I think that's very applicable to what we're talking about today, this idea of change and transition and kind of what's happening specifically to you as individuals, but also to the groups that you're part of. 00;02;35;03 - 00;02;58;09 Well, it's pretty exciting, Dr. Smith, that really having you, because not many people know is that actually about 12 plus years ago, I actually had a brain aneurysm. Right? It ruptured. You know, I had the hemorrhagic stroke and my brain needed to change under a lot of stress and things like that. It's amazing to, you know, to talk to someone and how people can go through these things and how the brain can change and how people can change. 00;02;58;09 - 00;03;19;15 When you're under stress, our life and life changes. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a an incredible story. I'm happy to see just my brief interaction already that you've done a fantastic recovery. Those are very can be very life altering events. One of the one of the things I'd like to talk about, it's kind of bring it in for us today, kind of jump jump the agenda a little bit. 00;03;19;15 - 00;03;42;29 But the idea of neuroplasticity. Right. And so in your case specifically, David, the idea of how does our brain repair itself when it's going through or has experienced a specific injury. Right. So an aneurysm is a very specific injury. And the mechanisms that happen on both these structural meaning like parts of your brain change and able to grow and adapt, we call that neuroplasticity. 00;03;42;29 - 00;04;21;29 But also how do you learn new things or go through and your brain changes? And essentially the idea of memory is being formed, but also the plasticity of how do you become better at something through experience? And the mechanism is essentially very similar. There's a couple of nuances that are differentiated, but what's fascinating is that our brains have this incredible ability that we knew about for about 200 years ago or so, but then we've really been able to show in the last 30 to 50 years that our brains can actually change and adapt and grow to appreciate experiences and also, you know, overcome injuries that happened to us. 00;04;21;29 - 00;04;43;06 And so I think that's something where when you're going through or you perceive that you may be going into a time of transition and or change, how do you prepare yourself for that? Right? How do you build in those building blocks to know I'm going to have something that's going to be pretty dynamic or stressful, potentially occurring, even just going home to see friends and family for the holidays all the way to a major life event. 00;04;43;09 - 00;05;01;15 How do you prepare and change and adapt yourself so that you can respond as best as possible? That's always that's always a fantastic conversation. So thanks for that and let's jump in right to it. I mean, that's that's what we're here to do, you know, and this is just to remind anybody, this is this is an idea based off of some things that David. 00;05;01;15 - 00;05;42;25 Mr.. Mr.. CROSS So you got me ready with the formalities. I was thinking about. Dr. SMITH. It's columns that Tom just in the idea of, of being able to understand when we're about to enter something right in a situation, a conversation. David you and I have been talking about these in the series of conversations on previous podcasts. You know, when we're recognizing that something is about to occur, how do we how are we going to create the awareness for us to know what we're going to need to do to prepare for this appropriately so we can be informed enough, but also understand our limitation, you know, because we don't know what we don't know, but 00;05;42;25 - 00;06;03;06 we have to be able to recognize that we need to be prepared for the things that we don't know. So when we do fail, we can respond to that accordingly or appropriately to where we don't stop. We've got to keep moving. So just then, if you wouldn't mind maybe taking it from that to say, how do we understand that something's about to occur? 00;06;03;09 - 00;06;20;09 Yeah, absolutely. David, you have one thing you want to add before he jumped in. Well, yeah, I think that I was going to ask maybe another part of that question to you. Is that a big part of it I used to think about is like you is all about having a vision, right. And a plan. Right. And then that's what drives your brain to get there, right? 00;06;20;15 - 00;06;36;16 Or am I being naive? You know, obviously like last podcast talk about, you know, being useful and the tools and saying, hey, you have a vision and a plan and that's what drives you. Is that being too simplistic or is that part of the whole story? No, I think that's very much a part of the whole story, right? 00;06;36;17 - 00;06;59;06 We are, as a species goal driven and plan oriented, and I like to use evolutionary examples right? When you're going to go out and gather food, whether it's berries or you're going to procure meat from some something, some animal, right. Usually go with a plan. You know, I tend to wander around aimlessly and waste expenditure and calories on just randomly going to see if I can find a new blueberry patch. 00;06;59;08 - 00;07;16;20 You were going to specifically say, I know there's blue blueberry patches here, here and here. And because our species, we're thinkers as well, right? Not just going to go to a blueberry patch and gather blueberries. We're going to hunt our way there. We're going to hunt anyway back right here and optimize when I have a plan to go through and say, you know, what is it we want to do? 00;07;16;21 - 00;07;39;01 What are the goals we'd like to accomplish today, even if it feels informal? Right. Those still are kind of structured. Portions of our day are weeks or months and I would argue our years are kind of the overall arc of our life as well. But I think it's not too simplistic to say how do you create a plan and set goals for yourself and a group to understand, okay, this is what the this is what we're shooting for, right? 00;07;39;01 - 00;07;57;27 And kind of breaking it down in business. We do this a lot. We here's the here's the house on the Hill we're trying to build. How do we get there? How do we build these smaller building blocks that are accomplishable and spur planning and all that kind of stuff, Right. To to hunker down and tweak instruments or our instruments or whatever it is that you're doing that cousins causes effort or takes effort to do. 00;07;58;00 - 00;08;30;03 But having a plan is very much how our brains are organized structurally as well. I would argue, to be able to optimize, be able to accomplish those things for the basic level, for survival. Right. We most of us have those needs. Metaphor Listeners podcast. So how do you plan to do it for organizational advancement? So in part of that planning, because you're talking about these things too, where if you've never done it before, it's easy to say, you know, here's what I think I need to do, and then you stop there and then you learn, right? 00;08;30;03 - 00;08;54;05 So this is some of that developmental process that you mentioned earlier about the growth and how that becomes a valuable. So how much is this kind of a qualitative quantitative thing about how much effort do you think you need to go into typical situations in life stages and and, you know, maybe jobs or performance or relationships or even the climate like seasons, right? 00;08;54;05 - 00;09;11;04 So we're going from summer to fall, fall or winter, and then what occurs inside those seasons. Yeah. And so this is where I would say you start to see a spectrum occur, right? Individuals who do very little to no preparation just kind of go with the way to the flow, all the way to individuals who are preparing for seasons and or events at that. 00;09;11;04 - 00;09;27;07 Really, I'll just use the word elite and or extreme event, right? Where they going to try and control as much, if not everything that they can. And so depending on where you feel like it's the most appropriate place for yourself to fall, and this is where you can really start to see it in the workplace or even just in human performance. 00;09;27;09 - 00;09;44;06 Individuals who prepare more perform better. It's a pretty clear cut correlation. It's not, wow, they're really good at that. They're good at that because they practiced it for years and years and years of their speaking where there's a certain skill worth. You're an athlete, you know, if you're leading a team meeting, you know, that's not just thing you happen into. 00;09;44;06 - 00;10;19;15 Those are those are finance skills that you're able to practice and build upon. And so for the transitions, right, is understanding what are the potential transitions you're going to experience. How do you figure out those before they occur? Right. And then if you're if you're a planner who thinks diligently, right, the military has a bunch of acronyms for this as well, but you have your primary, secondary and tertiary plan knowing that they're all three going to be a little bit different in the end because dynamics and things change in the world evolves around us constantly, but at least have some structure to hold on to as you're going through this dynamic situation. 00;10;19;15 - 00;10;39;27 And that's the part where setting yourself up for success is really key, right? And so, again, to use the evolutionary example, 10,000 years ago, you know, we were looking at when winter is coming, seasons are changing. You got to start storing food, storing things so you can make them this long winter because things are growing, peaches gotten harvest, blueberries, got to save them. 00;10;40;00 - 00;10;57;18 You know, Dr. Smith, this really brings, you know, another question to my mind, and since you are the expert here is, you know, there's always left brain and right brain, and I can't remember which one's which, but right brain is more structured, methodical, and the other side is is more creative, artistic. Right. And we talk about visions in planning structure. 00;10;57;18 - 00;11;24;11 Does it matter if a person's left brain focused or right brain focused, or am I just making up a crazy thought? No, no, I think so. This is the hard part. From the neuroscience perspective. We view bilaterally like the split in your brain as being essentially a redundant system, right? There is there is specialization, right? So your right hands control the left hand, push your brain, you know, your eyeballs, cross your optic nerve, goes back and crosses it, gets back to your occipital lobe in the back of your brain. 00;11;24;13 - 00;11;44;21 So there there is a duality or there is a bifurcation right between the two lobes. Your brain. But how it's organized in terms of people being right brain and left brain, I this is my personal opinion. I think it's far oversimplistic, right? Because all of your brain is working more or less constantly all the time. And we do see individuals that are more creative, right? 00;11;44;24 - 00;12;06;09 But it's not creative because one side the brain's functioning at a higher percentage or higher perspective and some people are more analytical or more, you know, logic based, you know, less we can say less creative, right? Less creative. In the same way they're not able to paint and draw pictures readily. But that just might be because they're using different forces of brain that are more optimized to how things are running for them intuitively, or we call it in neuroscience. 00;12;06;09 - 00;12;24;13 It's called the default mode network, right? So essentially it's that what's the Hummer? What's the idol of your brain when you're at rest and then you're able to bring it up to say, I have a cognitive task. Can you take care of I have this big thing I need to prepare for. How do I prepare resources? How do I plan how to prepare myself physically, mentally, you know, all those kind of things. 00;12;24;13 - 00;12;43;08 And that process takes your whole brain, like all the parts of your brain from your cortex, all the way down to your limbic system. The emotional, you know, emotional portion of your brain. And so when it gets to the idea of left brain versus right brain, I it's just it's too simplistic for me. This what I like to say. 00;12;43;10 - 00;13;01;29 Well, that's great to hear. Certainly I can say from my experience when I had my ears and my my speech center, which was on my left, left behind my left eye. Yes. Will be damaged. Right. I'm still paranoid today that I don't speak properly, but it is amazing of how my brain evolved, you know, adjusted so quickly to say, well, I need to still speak. 00;13;01;29 - 00;13;24;16 And I actually I all the language just started coming back and things like over time. And that means I can adapt and I think that's maybe our our our conversation today. How do you adapt right? How can you get through stress, stress or a change or a challenge? Yeah, absolutely. And so using your example is really, really illustrative for us today, because that is exactly neuroplasticity, right? 00;13;24;16 - 00;13;53;29 You have a large damage to the course of your brain is responsible for a very specific process. And this is what do I do this often? I'm still I get excited and I'm like, this is incredible. You're brain to have a damaged that's just that big area yet parts that were closer near it are able to pick up some of that functionality right and you're able to train and bring in and your body kind of helps to move those resources that your neurons can connect again, to say this is a core functionality of existence for us, it's speech, right? 00;13;53;29 - 00;14;11;15 Understanding and processing and be able to speak language. We have to figure this out. And so you practice it, right? You go to these therapies, you do all these things that are that are hard and take effort, but your brain is able to kind of overcome that deficiency or that that injury that I experienced. Right. And that's that's phenomenal. 00;14;11;15 - 00;14;25;24 And so where that leads us for the transitions and the change portion is knowing that there might be a change coming up and, you know, it's going to be stressful. What do you do to prepare? Right? So number one is you figure out what that area might be, right? So let's just say it's a big transition for your family. 00;14;25;24 - 00;14;42;06 You're moving across the country, right? We have this cool thing called the Internet. You're able to do a bunch of background research and say, where's I'm going? Where do I want to live? Kind of paint that picture for yourself. Right. The other part, too, is you're able to ideally if you're moving, is let's use that as the example, right? 00;14;42;08 - 00;14;59;04 Hopefully able to save some money to say, I'm going to make an advanced trip out there and this goes in that person that's super logical and can do a bunch of planning, right. And then make an advance about there and not tell your whole family, send one person, your family, maybe, hopefully the person that's really interested in deciding what parts of town you want to live in or what you want to have as your living situation. 00;14;59;06 - 00;15;28;16 You will do a little reconnaissance of that area to say this is a this looks like a great place on the Internet and on a map. Then you get there and it's an area that's under heavy construction. And they're not there's no end in sight. That's not a place you want to bring yourself or your family. But what you're able to do during that process, and this is where even if you don't have to physically go somewhere to practice, this is the key part, the practice of thinking about what is it you can do to prepare for these big transitions are going to go through, helps to restructure and organize your brain, if that makes 00;15;28;16 - 00;15;44;14 sense. Right? So it's doing those kind of thought experiments is thought exercise and even going through and asking yourself and thinking about where would I like to live? Sounds super easy. Intuitive, right? I don't care. Apartment, condo, house, it's fine, doesn't matter. But then it's way more nuanced that do I want to buy water? You want to buy a golf course? 00;15;44;14 - 00;16;05;09 Do I live by the road, the airport, and going through and say, okay, what are those options? And laying them out for yourselves that your prefrontal cortex, your executive decision making process in your brain can really start to step in to say, I know that we as a unit, a family unit or use individual really appreciate I'm happiest, healthiest when I have access to a green belt to ride my bike and go for runs. 00;16;05;09 - 00;16;34;21 Right. Or I like to play golf every day. So if I can move in or out a golf course, they have accessibility to, you know, these are things to start to practice in the exercises. Again, it doesn't sound like exercise. We talk about physical exercise and these those mental exercises to be able to prepare for these types of change is setting yourself up for success so that if you have to make that big transition and most people say, wow, you had you found out in 30 days, you moving across the country, your response if you thought about it ahead of time because you had an inkling that might be happening is yeah, but I already 00;16;34;21 - 00;17;05;25 have a really good idea of what I'm looking for and I've got a list of places I can contact. And I have a realtor that I have kind of on standby, right? Those are things that, again, seem like they're completely tangential to the idea of like, how do you prepare for big transitions? But it's the idea of preparing yourself and your brain to practice and exercise this cognitive thinking that you're able to do so that when you have to do it and this goes down to really specific situations as to as well, you're able to kind of rely on those experiences and those resources because they're readily available and you've trained them up, if that 00;17;05;25 - 00;17;29;11 makes sense. If I'm if well, if I'm transitioning right to our military family, you're transitioning right? You have a network of people to where anybody that you're asking if even if you overhear it, but if you're intentional on trying to find out and pursue investigate, like you just said about, you know, connaissance. Right. You're trying to figure out ahead of time whether or not this is something for you, it's safe to say. 00;17;29;11 - 00;17;50;28 Then you have to identify and be as accurate as possible by thinking critically about what's important to you and understand the levels of importance. So to prioritize these things. Yeah. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And that's something where, again, going back to our spectrum of laissez faire people, they don't they go with the wind all the way to individuals who are, you know, really large, you know, meticulous planners. 00;17;51;00 - 00;18;06;09 Understanding where you fall on that spectrum is key. But also it takes resources to think what makes me happy and healthy. Right? And it's easy to say I'm a go with the flow kind of person, but all of a sudden you find yourself not in the place that you're you recognize. After six months, you're not very happy or healthy. 00;18;06;09 - 00;18;36;12 And why is that? Is that things that you can change in your environment is that the career path? Is it the new job you took within the organization that you thought would you be really good at? Turns out it's really hard. It's not a good fit for you, right? How do you how do you make sure that you're able to stay self-aware, which again, it sounds easy to say it's a skill to practice that then when you go through to these major large changes and transitions really helps you to say, I know that I'm very good and comfortable when I get to these situations, but I need to practice these other types of situations, right? 00;18;36;12 - 00;18;53;27 And that's where the business side comes in to us. If you know, you have to give a talk to 30 people and you're comfortable doing that, what happens is 30 people that are three levels above you. How do you practice for that? How do you think about what's that audience going to want to hear that's different than talking to 33 individuals that are your peers, right? 00;18;53;27 - 00;19;13;12 And so, again, transitions change that planning ahead of time is really key and critical. And again, it's a skill to practice because it's like golf. You never win golf. You play it and get better, hopefully, but at some point you're like, okay, I'm still practicing, still getting better, I'm still hopefully enjoying it. But you never you never win. 00;19;13;13 - 00;19;28;17 You know, you kind of continually practice it. I think that's kind of just like the we always talk about lots of books and I say, Well, what's the best book? When you think about presenting? I say, Well, go get the book on the presentation. Secrets of Steve Jobs. Right. And how does Steve Jobs get really good at presenting? 00;19;28;24 - 00;19;55;02 Because he practice, practice, practice, practice, practice straight. And I and I think that's what it's all about. Whenever you need to do something and be successful at it. Practice, practice, practice. Chris What's your favorite book? Isn't that the Malcolm Gladwell saying 10000 Hours? Yeah, it's repeatedly it's the outliers because it does talk about very specific things. That's relative to not only time in a place to where it just so happens to be that it was convenient, right? 00;19;55;02 - 00;20;18;28 If you're in the right place at the right time, then you just your opportunity. And then there's the ones that actually put in the effort, put in the reps, develop that skill set based off of repetition and things like that, which Dr. Smith, you've talked about in the past, how important repetitions are and then the outcomes of those acts and how you're going to now develop the awareness to know what you can do better and what you shouldn't repeat? 00;20;19;00 - 00;20;34;27 Yeah, absolutely. And that's that feedback loop in training, right? So if you're really diligent about your training, you want to have a near immediate or real time feedback loop of did that work or did it not work? You know, we do it oftentimes we're we'll send a survey after we have, you know, a big all hands meeting. What did you hear? 00;20;34;27 - 00;21;01;06 What did you like? What could we change for next time? You know, leaders want to know what what worked, what didn't, how we adjusted for the future. And that's, again, a skill you can practice or think about often. It's easy to say it's hard to do, right. I think that's that's pretty gets down to in practicing takes effort and cognitive resources which are finite and so making sure you're able to prepare yourself as best as possible to leverage those resources appropriately is key. 00;21;01;06 - 00;21;22;22 And that's one of the other points I really enjoy making. I think it's super important. It sounds again, tangential, but it's extremely valid and is really important. And that's the idea of exercise, physical exercise, specifically voluntary exercise. Right? And so whatever your athletic ability is, challenge yourself. If you want to go for a walk for 30 minutes every hour of the day, Right, Do that. 00;21;22;23 - 00;21;40;10 That's your exercise. The big thing I have to say is making sure you're getting your heart rate elevated, your break a little bit of a sweat like that's that you're physiologically moving your body in in a meaningful way. You know, you don't run an ultramarathon or do 100 K like that. Sometimes it's not good. And those have certain effects on your body that aren't always great. 00;21;40;10 - 00;22;10;18 But the reason why exercise is so potent and powerful, this is a probably good transmission to the idea of stress is our bodies are really good at mitigating stress when we have access to free exercise or we're able to move our bodies. Right. So there's two components that. One is the physiology. Your body gets better at moving things around through it, through your blood system, through endocrine system, through, you know, the lymphatic system, the parts that move things through your body when you're when you appropriately exercise or use that system with intention, especially, it's voluntary. 00;22;10;18 - 00;22;28;23 That's the key part, is it gets better doing it right. It's kind of like if you haven't done a certain exercise a long time, you're like, I'm going to go out and lift weights. That first two or three weeks back is really hard because your body is like your brain says, I know how to do is a dumbbell curl like it is all day long and your muscles are freaking out because they haven't done it in such a long time. 00;22;28;23 - 00;22;48;03 Your bone structure may have changed. You know, you may have had an injury or coming back from ulcers. This different makes an impact. And so starting where you are is key. Building up your physiologist, you have that physiological response. But also this is the part to where I think it was probably five or six years ago. Now they're finally able to get a real time image of the brain while you're breathing, right? 00;22;48;03 - 00;23;03;20 So you can see inside the skull and watch the brain. So all of our textbooks, until about ten years ago had the brain is this just static thing that stuck inside your skull? Well, it turns out when they did a race, they were all kind of played as a movie. Our brain moves as we breathe with our heart rate as well. 00;23;03;20 - 00;23;24;13 Right. It's this incredible like, my gosh, this thing is actually not just this static, you know, mushy gray matter. White men are stuck in a box. It's moving and it's moving with your breath, with your respirations, your situation system, all these things change it. And so what happens is the more you're able to build up the appropriate level of physiology for you, for yourself, right. 00;23;24;16 - 00;23;43;27 You're able to not only think better and more clearly because you're kind of resources will be able to be moving around much faster. You're able to physiologically have a response. It's appropriate to a certain stressor. And that's the key thing, right? So if you're feeling completely unprepared and overwhelmed, you have to stop and say, what is it that's overwhelming me? 00;23;43;29 - 00;24;06;04 And after time, that's a very difficult question to ask yourself as well, because it could be personal, it could be professional, it could be systems that are under your control, somewhat out of your control. Right. But be able to stop and say, okay, what's what's bugging me, What's stress me right now, How can I deal with that? And the more you're able to leverage voluntary exercise in your life, the better you will be at doing that. 00;24;06;06 - 00;24;34;22 You know, Dr. Smith, that I can't agree 100% more certainly to those things is that certainly whenever I'm stressed for the work life, whatever, I go for a run. Right? And it's amazing of how much just a5k run. I'm not as hard core and you know, Chris and his his 50 K, you know, kind of sprints and things like that but my little five K running boy, it's amazing of like how that can just reset everything, reset your brain, reset your body like okay, I'm now able to, you know, take on things and also the element is he made his luck I don't know. 00;24;34;24 - 00;24;53;25 But literally one week before I had my brain aneurysm, I ran my first half marathon race. And in some ways, I believe to this day is that my body, my mind was conditioned for stress, you know, in a race of that type. And that's maybe one of the reasons I survived, is because of that. But I could be wrong. 00;24;53;27 - 00;25;20;14 I was not a medical doctor to send it very clearly. But I will say you were in a far better position for recovery because you prepared for that ten K then had you been sitting on the couch and been completely sessile or just not moving around for two or three years before that injury happened? Right. And that's where in health care we see this massive split of individuals that have what seem like near miraculous recoveries, but turns out like, no, that person casualty's a triathlete as well. 00;25;20;16 - 00;25;39;27 It's like you. Their body is ready to respond to stressors that may come into it, whether it's injury, internal or external, whatever it may be, versus, you know, people that are let's just say, not as conditioned to have those types of responses because what we see or what we think about, especially especially with exercise, is, a person's weight's going up or down, right? 00;25;39;27 - 00;25;58;14 You look at the overall physical structure, what we don't think about is what they do internally is your blood pressure. How is your heart looking out? What's the rate of oxygen return from your lungs all in that just before you even get into the brain chemistry, Right. It's all affected. And exercise is an extremely powerful tool. And again, using the evolutionary examples, right. 00;25;58;14 - 00;26;25;13 We weren't meant to sit behind computers for 8 to 10 hours a day, like we're supposed to be out walking around doing stuff, thinking and talking, interacting with our peers and being social as well. But moving is a big part of our existence and it should be. So I think that's part of it too. Where I get to work with certain groups is the idea of letting it and letting everyone know it's okay to take 30 minutes to go outside and do a walk like that will your productivity will increase like we've seen it over and over again. 00;26;25;15 - 00;26;45;28 Your response to stress will become better for sure if you have even just a small amount of movement in your day. And I think that's where we start to see that on the other side, the negative side of chronic health conditions of people that aren't moving around very much. So it's it's again easy to say, hard to do, but building it into your day and planning for it can be very key. 00;26;46;00 - 00;27;14;04 And that can it goes the idea of stretching or having those large changes, that preparation, that anticipation for those big changes, they come up. Yeah. So part of the part of the plan and I think this is something that's commonly omitted from the plan is self care. Right? And so this this is along the lines of, you know, interestingly, when I'm trying to do something to be better at it, you know, I'm thinking about the external factors and how I'm looking ahead externally, meaning out of out of self, right? 00;27;14;04 - 00;27;33;12 I'm saying, well, if I need to go to the store, if I need to, you know, I want to work towards a degree or a certificate or something to that element, there isn't a lot of these things that I'm adding the value or incorporating the value of the physical element that that's necessary for me to function, hydration, nutrition, rest, I mean, all of those factors. 00;27;33;12 - 00;27;52;02 So can we kind of just touch on some of those things because your perspective on how how the brain is what it is and you just started to explain it, but how it needs the nutritional components to be able to optimize its function and things like that. How does how do all of these things connect? Yeah, so that's one that's a really big question. 00;27;52;04 - 00;28;09;17 But to kind of take it in smaller bites and chunks, right? So how does it all connect? One of the ways that I like to kind of describe this to think about it is the idea of context. And so when I say context, I mean in two different ways. I mean the external context to you, the physical environment that you're in, your surroundings around you, right? 00;28;09;17 - 00;28;27;00 So like literally the room that you're in or the space that you're occupying external context, and then also your internal context, what's happening inside your body, inside your brain. This is my favorite joke with the whole scientists is like, we can't point to a thought like we're told about your mind, Like we don't know where the mind or you can't put your mind. 00;28;27;00 - 00;28;52;28 We think it's in your head, right? But our our neurochemistry, our physiology inside our body is new. What's happening can be your considering talk about is your internal context. Those two things are related. They're interconnected completely right, because your external environment influences your internal environment. But what I like to say, and this is why I think is fun, is as humans we have this really unique ability and that is to think. 00;28;53;01 - 00;29;11;27 And when you can have an experience that's external. So an external context is a stressful situation. You have the ability to say, I'm going to put this as best as I can, right? And so I'll use my self as an example. If I get stuck at a dinner party or some sort of gathering and it is just a really dry conversation or something's happening, right? 00;29;12;04 - 00;29;25;06 And I don't want to be the person who's going to dominate the room, because sometimes I think that's fun to do as well. But sometimes it's not. It's the idea of sitting back and saying, How can I make this more enjoyable for others? How can we and we call it steering the conversation. How do you steer this conversation? 00;29;25;06 - 00;29;58;22 So it picks back up again? How do I help control these external contexts? Because in my brain, my internal context is like, this is boring. Like I don't want to be here anymore. What's going on right? And so specifically to do that and usually I talk about this more in more applied circumstances in terms of individuals that go into extreme stress environments, meaning life or death situations, but for us that aren't usually facing those situations on a day to day basis, hopefully the idea of how do you take care of or set yourself up for success in the best way possible, right? 00;29;58;22 - 00;30;19;18 So exercise is very type of exercise. Next to it is nutrition, hydration, Right. And so making sure you're meeting your body's needs for what you're asking you to do and this is another fun fact I really enjoy talking about is when you and Chris, you should know the answer because you heard this one before, I think. But for individuals that are playing in a elite grandmaster level chess tournament. 00;30;19;20 - 00;30;38;10 Right. How many calories do you think their body or their brain or their body overall is burning in a day? Like what would you say if you had to guess? David Wow, I'm stuck with that. I don't I don't have a good guess on this one, actually. Okay. Would you guess it'd be low because they're just sitting there and they're just playing chess all day? 00;30;38;12 - 00;31;01;01 No, I don't think so. I think that that is hard to say. It doesn't make sense. But now that sounds like I'm being comedic. Doesn't right now. It's all good. So what's amazing, right, is when you watch somebody play at the grandmaster level, these really intense chess tournaments, what we see externally from the external environment is they're sitting there and they're staring at a board with pieces on it. 00;31;01;01 - 00;31;22;07 Right. But what's happening to them internally, their internal context, their brain is firing and they're thinking ten, 20, 50 moves ahead, They're playing what's happening, what they think the strategy of their opponents going to be. They are literally thinking at the most cognitively resource intense level possible for hours on end. This isn't like a 30 minute speech chess game. 00;31;22;07 - 00;31;38;28 Like these people play games over and over again the other day. So it's fascinating is the number of changes a little bit, but you can think about in terms of it's a lot, right? So the idea is it's either eight, it's up to 8 to 12000 calories a day, which when you sit there and think you're like, holy cow, that's day. 00;31;39;02 - 00;31;58;02 So, Michael Phelps is swimming in the Olympics. He was eating 10,000 calories a day, right, because he was in the water training and racing and to feed his fuel's body for the physical exertion. But what's amazing is those grandmasters in chess, they're literally thinking their way through their caloric resources to their body because they're thinking so hard, they're playing these games. 00;31;58;04 - 00;32;13;28 And so that's the idea of what nutrition do you need? And this is where I get to have fun. Another group specifically. But knowing that you're getting ready to go do something, it's going to be extremely stressful. How do you set yourself up for success? And our brains run on glucose and oxygen. It's kind of the way you can think of it, right? 00;32;13;28 - 00;32;31;01 So simple the simple sugar glucose and need to be able to breathe, right? So before you go and you think it's stressful, especially if you know it's an event that's coming up, I usually don't have any with my desk here. I usually keep the organic gummy bears like the kids Gummy bears, right. That are just really just you know, it's like honey, Honey is a great example. 00;32;31;01 - 00;32;49;02 Those honey shots for athletes and they take without running, do laundry and stuff, having glucose on demand that you can boost yourself up, help special blood sugar. It's all the physiology kind of comes together, but setting your brain up for success to say, Hey, we're going to boost your brain, I'm going to boost you up with glucose so that you can have the resources you need for this. 00;32;49;04 - 00;33;07;07 Hopefully a medium to short duration, high level of cognitive load to deal with the transition or change you're going through, especially into an acute event. These are acute event examples. We talk about chronic events in a moment, but then also understanding this is another fun study was done probably 15, 20 years ago now. But it's not just any but individuals. 00;33;07;07 - 00;33;29;28 They measured respirations during an intense test. I think it was in the category also after medical school or law school to get into. And what they found was individuals that had the same resting actions, meaning they weren't holding their breath when they're taking a test, individuals that were able to have the same respirations throughout the whole test experience scored significantly better than individuals who are holding their breath during the testing process. 00;33;30;00 - 00;33;49;00 And again, it makes sense because when you do something, it's hard. What do you think about what happens? You go we ask you a question like how you think about that and you hold or pause your breath, right? And so recognizing what your breathwork is doing at the time, especially again, these are acute stressors, can help to actually improve your performance. 00;33;49;03 - 00;34;03;10 And so when you watch like Olympic athletes are great because they're on camera all the time before they're getting ready to go and do their event. When you watch them, a lot of times they're doing these deep inhalation breaths. They're helping to saturate their body with oxygen. They're thinking about it. I guarantee you they've had a snack for the last hour. 00;34;03;12 - 00;34;25;28 Right. All these sort of subtle things that we do intuitively at elite athlete athletic levels. But to understand now the physiology, especially the neuroscience of why that works so well, that's what's really key. And so there's these really foundational building blocks of chronic stress. You know, make sure you have access to voluntary exercise, right? You'll make sure you're eating a healthy diet that's appropriate for the caloric intake and exertion that you're going to have. 00;34;26;01 - 00;34;41;28 So if you if you know, you're going to be biking 2 to 3 hours a day, get that smoothie in the afternoon. If you're not, you're not sitting through 6 hours of intense strategic meetings. Maybe you don't need the smoothie to have. You know, it's nice to have a dessert by Nita. And so I'm putting all those together I think is really kind of part of the key. 00;34;42;00 - 00;35;03;12 What makes so much sense now. Right. And it's elements of, hey, we got a hard presentation, you got hard work to do. It's your brain needs the calories. And let's come back to that. You know, the continuous runner theme that we have on our podcast is, you know, there's a running I've done a measurement myself and it makes sense now is that, hey, I'm running a5k, it's flat, it's straight, right? 00;35;03;12 - 00;35;18;14 I'd like to think I just get into a zone. I know some runners are going get mad at me, like you get into a zone. You're not thinking right. And I know exactly how much weight I'm going to burn off, but then I do a5k in a a mountain trail. Right now it doesn't. It's not because of hills. 00;35;18;14 - 00;35;49;29 It's like I have to think about every single step, every single move. Because if I make the wrong one, I'm going to fall over. And how much more energy you consume. And it's not from the physical energy. It's like the brainpower. I'm exhausted from your brain perspective, from that same five k distance. Yeah, Yeah. And what's really fun and what are the examples I love to hear, especially from runners, is once they start doing more of those mentally engaging runs, they say it's really hard to go and run a flat five k on pavement because you get you, you want to do it. 00;35;49;29 - 00;36;08;22 Your body says, let's go and try this right because it's fun and you're doing it voluntarily. I think that's the other part that's key, but it's it's engaging. Yeah. So then I think, Chris, we got to see you doing some hills, dude, and not just doing those trademark KS around the Redwood Lake. You know this guy, He's trying to get me into a what, a 25 minute ten. 00;36;08;23 - 00;36;32;14 Okay, so it's baby steps. So just to kind of get to where we are and summarize what we've taken, you've taken us through at this point. It's it's the planning, right? So becoming intimately familiar with what you're trying to do, it requires that you understand yourself better. And that comes through a true inventory of what you've achieved in the past. 00;36;32;14 - 00;37;01;13 And then, you know, somehow coming up to a methodology of categorizing things, of capable, not capable, want, don't want, you know, need, don't need things. However it works for you, you have to come up with some theory that is applicable to to what steps you're going to take to get in motion to move forward. And that's the preparing the, anticipating, you know, going through the experience, reassessing because the growth is going to now uncover some other patterns that you didn't know that you were going to benefit from. 00;37;01;13 - 00;37;31;24 And so you realize it. You know, even we're talking about nutrition, this little this little tweak and how your body's identifying stress and then acclimating to stress the recovery component, which is not often spoken about, you know, how you recover from these activities, from the physical component, the biological component, the mental component. You don't have to restore all of these things where I don't know that everybody's realizing that just sitting idle, the perception on the outside with the chess analogy is, you know, you're not really demonstrating physically anything outside. 00;37;31;24 - 00;37;51;14 Do people think that you're actually doing something, but internally you're expanding an enormous amount of energy to where it can be draining. You put it into word the context of what we're talking about. Again, military family, you know, the deployments, the idle time. There's still this thing that you're now putting your body through to assess, should I be doing something? 00;37;51;14 - 00;38;16;23 I should be doing more, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. And then the families being brought through those experiences on the same same context, the deployments, time away, time back, getting associated through the relationships and all that stuff. That's putting a weight on us to be able to understand what we need to do to prepare for that. But then it's the decision to get out of an environment that you've been in for an enormous amount of time, say five, ten, 15, 20 years. 00;38;16;26 - 00;38;40;19 You know, what are some of the things that you can do where, you know I'm thinking positive psychology, you know, things that you can reinforce through the self-talk of understanding a how to get through a moment to get unstuck or just make sure that you're not going to remain stagnant if that's how you feel. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think this is a really, again, key component, especially when you go through major life transitions, right? 00;38;40;27 - 00;38;59;27 Is one is again, I think I saw this 16 times today, but easy to say, hard to do. Number one is recognize that it's hard it's hard to do like this is going to be stressful. I think just accepting and recognizing that sounds easy, but it's so like we're really good at denying things. I mean, like, I can get through this. 00;38;59;27 - 00;39;13;15 I'm just going to brush in the rug, recognize it's hard because when you recognize that something is going to be hard or be difficult, you then recognize you have to put effort into it. Right. And so then once you know, you put effort into it, this is the part of having a really be and this is why our brains are cool. 00;39;13;21 - 00;39;33;11 We can take that into the context of a giant transition that they separate from. Military is a good example, right. And switch it. So it's not this it's not a negative event. You can look at it and frame it for yourself, Change the internal context you're experiencing into a positive or just this is a transition I'm going to be going through and making it as positive as possible. 00;39;33;13 - 00;39;50;29 Right? And so that kind of gets the idea of the positive psychology of how do you think about challenges. You're going to have to go through. And once you recognize that doesn't have to be a negative challenge, it starts to become fun because then you kind of start to gamified, where do I want to live? What do I want to do with a second career? 00;39;51;00 - 00;40;11;06 What do I want to do in my retirement? What what does getting back to being self aware? What does bring me joy and happiness? What makes me a better at being a partner to my in my significant other, to my kids, to my people in my life. And so I think that's again, one of those things that you kind of talk about or hear about this bajillion books written about it, right? 00;40;11;09 - 00;40;30;28 But it's the idea of changing an internal context that you perceive that you're telling a story that you're telling yourself, which is why our brains are different. Fantastic. Because I'll say the military is a good example because you see, you have to think it's really hard and difficult to do. But the more kind of selecting the groups you get to work with or you go into, you recognize you're surrounded by people that have chosen to be there. 00;40;31;06 - 00;40;58;03 They want to do those hard, dangerous, let's be honest, exciting tasks because it's not mundane. It's the trail run with the rocks with the side of the cliff exposed. You can have to run it through or around or find a bridge to go across that river. Right? These are challenging things that when you kind of set it into a positive framework, become challenges that you want to do and you want to accelerate out and accelerate and you want to accelerate your experience going into those so that you can come out of them as best as possible. 00;40;58;06 - 00;41;14;20 And so I think that's something where recognizing that you have the ability to say this is again the idea I'm not, I'm going to be okay. There today or I'm going have a good day today, right? If your days go and carry one piece, you got in a fender bender in the morning and your lunch spilled out on the floor. 00;41;14;22 - 00;41;32;23 I'm going to get there today. You know what that means? I could figure it out. I'm going to solve this problem, this car wreck. It sucks, but I can figure this out. I'm okay. That's one thing, right? It's about okay, I'm okay. This happens part of driving a vehicle on the roadway. Also, my lunch is malicious. Tash, I want you to tell us if you did, but you're like, okay, how am I going to solve this problem of finding my new lunch? 00;41;32;23 - 00;41;59;15 How I'm going to steer every source of calories to my brain by taking those things that could easily spiral to be very acute negative for an individual and saying, okay, this is a challenge I get to solve now, right? Just that that small, subtle flip from on what's happening to me to how can I influence the outcome. And that's where you start to see individuals that we call resilience to resign, individuals they are extremely good at telling themselves, I can solve this situation. 00;41;59;20 - 00;42;16;21 I don't know how yet, but I know I can solve it. Right? And so that's where those kind of core features that we see people that are really, really good at adapting to change, which we're all not very good at it, but people that are better than others, potentially, they're really good and. A lot of times they don't even realize they're doing it. 00;42;16;23 - 00;42;28;18 It's that I'm going to have a good day today. I'm going to an awesome day out. I can build in three things that I love to do today, right? As in this is we kind of get to the setting, the plan, we talk about the beginning, but setting up something that's fun to do in the middle part of the day. 00;42;28;22 - 00;42;43;16 You have it takes a minute your life and it's like filling up the joint through the end of the day, right? That's enjoyable. No takes. My friend can tell you that I'm having a great deal, a great day, as well as small, subtle things do not just influence yourself, but also influence others. I think that's the idea of kind of getting back to that. 00;42;43;16 - 00;43;08;20 How does it all come together? You know, that's not that's a four Ph.D. dissertation right there, but kind of recognizing that you can change your internal context and then you also have influence often your external context as well, even when it seems like it's outside of your control. I think that's kind of those things where the more we understand and think about it in those terms, the more able people are to find tools that work for them so they can mitigate the situations as best as possible. 00;43;08;23 - 00;43;30;19 Yeah, I agree. So the the idea that there's context, how you shape the context to understand how you can motivate yourself because you've probably at some point, if you've done this repeatedly, you've created a discipline where that means that you have the routine already set there. Isn't it an external factor to motivate you? It's just because, you know it needs to be done. 00;43;30;19 - 00;43;57;18 You've already acknowledged and accepted, which I think is some of the things that you know have been consistent. David And what you and I have been talking about, the one thing that I can't help not bring up is the value. So the value component, because if we're talking in our situations to where maybe there isn't something that's obvious about what you're needing to do to make sure that you're not being complacent, that you're prepared is to understand, are you in what you're doing right now? 00;43;57;18 - 00;44;17;25 Are you creating the value for others to leverage, to not you in a position to where you have to change or transition to? That could be a career, a job or a task, something to that effect. So I don't know. Do we dive into a little bit with the time we have left? I can give I can give a quick a quick sort response. 00;44;17;27 - 00;44;38;18 It won't take hopefully too long. But on the idea of creating a value, I had an amazing coach and I was playing at this football and it was a team sport and this coach came with so much passion and he played the collegiate level. So his techniques were off the charts like he was really good at all. These things needed to kind of build into a beginning athlete. 00;44;38;18 - 00;44;53;13 And we were playing high school football. But one of the major takeaways and he'd say this and every practice was bring something to the party, because if you're the fastest runner, bring your speed. If you have fast runner, but you have a lot of a lot of personality to share with the team, you're a great man. Bring that right. 00;44;53;13 - 00;45;12;13 Bring that value as we just talked about. Bring it every day, Bring it every moment. You're able to bring it and think about if you're not bringing it, how can you bring it? Right? That's the one thing I think when we get into the idea of large transitions, especially in organizations that are going through an external change that may be completely out of your control, like the macroeconomics of situation. 00;45;12;13 - 00;45;32;27 Right. But how can you, with your behaviors, moment to moment, day by day, bring the value that you have to add and be able to demonstrate it and to show others this is why I'm here and this is what I'm good at. This is why you have me right. I think that's something where you know particularly that to yourself, to know when you can lean in, when you can express those, when you can bring bring some to the party. 00;45;33;00 - 00;45;51;14 It's a huge dividend. And the fun part from my perspective is, you know who those people are who do it diligently and you want them on your team. Very apparent. I need that person here for this project. They're excellent at this business. They bring it every day. Yeah, that that goes with the thing that we've talked about. Seek to understand Right. 00;45;51;14 - 00;46;22;24 Ask for feedback, make sure you're aligned. Do the check ins, take action, proactive action to where you can understand that value and make sure that you're you're connected to what people are expecting. You know. So Dr. Smith, that certainly I think you've given a lot of great advice, a lot of great insights here. You know, but the one thing we always love to ask is then there are people that would like to learn more, learn more, you know, kind of get some similar motivation or direction, you know, what book or books might you recommend to our audience? 00;46;22;24 - 00;46;43;14 Because we love meeting all those, you know, those playthroughs. And for recommending books, that's how we, you know, that's how we pay, you know, that's how we, you know, put food on the table. So if you any recommendations we'd love to if you could share Yeah yeah. So one I think just looking for recommendations are going out and searching on your own to find out what areas you're interested in. 00;46;43;21 - 00;47;02;29 That's the first step, right? Because each of us have our own like, you should read these ten books, which is fantastic. But I think curating it to yourself is really key. One of the books that I enjoy discussing, or at least kind of talking about for individuals, is Daniel Kahneman book Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow. Right? It's an older, older book is a psychologist slash neuroscientist. 00;47;03;02 - 00;47;26;21 It's been around for a little while, but it's got the idea of how do we think about thinking involved? And then also some of the background. He's a good storyteller, so it's an easy read. The other thing I like to tell people to is don't get so caught up all the time in the the mechanistic books. It's like the positive psychology if you can, if you can stomach or read science fiction, right? 00;47;26;24 - 00;47;43;11 There's interesting ideas that you can kind of tend to bring in from places that you might not see the connection into your everyday life. Right? And so some of it, some of the things that I enjoy doing as of late is reading science fiction from like the fifties because they had this amazing view, what they thought the future was going to be. 00;47;43;14 - 00;48;04;02 Some of it's pretty spot on. Some of it's just totally nonsense, but it changes your perspective on where the problems are trying to solve today and how do people before me think about some of the problems that are still here, Right. So politics, great example, right? Social relationships, great example, technology solutions that we have to have because of the challenge you're facing, whatever that, you know, event that's happening. 00;48;04;08 - 00;48;29;28 So I would say explore different genres as well, not just kind of those how to be better business books because there's a ton of out there and a lot of them are very, very helpful. But you know, routing it out I think is important as well. Got it. To be be diverse in your discovery. Yeah. Yeah. All I can say is, Chris, can you open up the pod bay doors please be jumping out or in which way you got. 00;48;30;00 - 00;48;34;29 My name's Dave. So that's my. That's my line. 00;48;35;01 - 00;48;57;03 Got it. Well, good stuff for Justin, Dr. Smith. Thank you so much, David, as always, it's a pleasure For everybody listening. It's applicable based off of the effort that you put into it. And I think from that, if you just understand your thresholds, you know, just start with where you are. As Dr. Smith had mentioned, for all the things that matter. 00;48;57;06 - 00;49;17;07 All right. It's not just the physical components, everything else, right? It's it's a process. And so with the D.B. Cross's analogy, if you're a runner, right, it can be a sprint depending on your situation. It can be a marathon, depending on your situation, depending on your injuries. Right. All of these factors that way in to the limitations, know them, get to know them and then use them. 00;49;17;09 - 00;49;27;23 All right, everyone, thanks for joining. Thanks for listening. Keep moving forward. Let's roll. Thank you.…

MAVEN

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Impact: Be a Force Multiplier 45:56

1 year45:56

45:56

Impact is about results. Impact is delivered by having clear and measurable goals that are regularly tracked with milestones. Understanding how to achieve impact or what the desired results should be is sometimes not easy. This is where we want to tie back and leverage some of our previous episodes on connections, communication, and visibility to help others in driving impact. Short and long success personally and professionally is all about driving the best and highest impact. We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. --------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;17 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maiden podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;29 - 00;00;51;20 In this episode, we discuss impact. The impact is about results. Impact is delivered by having clear and measurable goals that are regularly tracked with milestones. Understanding how to achieve impact or what the desired results should be is sometimes not easy. This is where we want to tie back and leverage some of our previous episodes on connections, communication and visibility to help others in driving impact short and long term success. 00;00;51;24 - 00;01;08;02 Personally and professionally is all about driving the best and highest impact We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode. And please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;08;07 - 00;01;24;11 And don't forget to send us feedback, suggestions and topics on what you would like us to cover in future episodes. It helps spread the word to the broader community David's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn Morning, David. 00;01;24;19 - 00;01;33;16 Good morning. I'm excited. Seems like it's been a couple of weeks here, almost taking too long. And this for get to there because we want to have impact, right? You know with our community. 00;01;34;01 - 00;01;36;29 Impact sounds like we're talking about impact. 00;01;37;10 - 00;02;03;27 Well, in the end, you know, Chris, it's kind of everything we're talking about is why are we doing this, right? Why do we, you know, talking about, you know, connecting in relationships and communicating? You know, it's because so we can have more impact impact our lives, impact on our jobs, impacting our careers. And so I kind of start thinking about how can we help people to, you know, have some best practices understanding how to have the largest amount of impact. 00;02;04;09 - 00;02;12;01 That's right. To discover what your purpose is probably has a lot to influence whether or not you feel like you're being impactful. 00;02;12;17 - 00;02;31;26 Well, you know, I think as many companies are certainly high tech companies now is you know, I don't get into the performance reviews and things like that. Maybe that's a whole nother podcast in itself. But it's really people want to say, you know, measure how much impact did you have? You know, what were your results you know, did you have big results? 00;02;31;26 - 00;02;45;18 Do you have major results? Do you have minor results? And I think then we should really talk about how do you measure these things? How do you drive for impact? Right? How do you know when you may not be measuring or looking at the right things? 00;02;46;00 - 00;03;10;16 Yeah, that's right. You touched on a couple of things inside that already as we're just kicking this off. So I think when when you know what you're supposed to be doing, the questions that come in are somewhat of what you introduced as well. How do I do that when you find what's important? And then you say, well, how do I know it's going to actually yield the results that everybody's considering or expecting? 00;03;11;05 - 00;03;34;02 You know? And so you have the OKRs, the KPIs, you know, even in response to a question, could give an indicator as to whether or not you're aligned What I guess the you or the group had discussed is what is needing to be done. But I think there's also some room here to talk about some of those other things that maybe aren't measurable or at least maybe hard to explain. 00;03;34;02 - 00;03;52;04 Maybe there are measurable if you if you're skilled at being able to interpret what's happening so maybe maybe we'll kind of focus on some two key areas, you know, the obvious things and then the ones that probably aren't as commonly referred to or understood, but is a part of the equation. 00;03;53;03 - 00;04;12;07 Well, I think that's a great point in that because sometimes it is when we're part of organizations and goals priorities and things are top down, right? And saying, these are things you hit us like, okay, the impact I'm having is based on those goals with their top down, that's very easy. But also sometimes we work in organizations where it's not so crystal clear. 00;04;12;08 - 00;04;28;28 Right. Or your goals aren't so well defined. Boy, I wish we we're in the military again, right? Everything here's the mission here. The tack is this which had to clean this all written down. It's a checklist. You either did it or you didn't did not do it. It's a lot simpler sometimes. Sometimes that you also say it's hard to. 00;04;29;08 - 00;04;44;02 But I think one of the things is that, well, how do you measure or identify the impact you need to have if it's not written down? It's not well stated. Out, you know, in obvious ways. Right. And I think that's maybe part of our discussion today. 00;04;44;24 - 00;05;04;16 Yep. So start with the basics. So you in your personal life, in your professional life, you have them, they may be named differently or phrased differently or even set up differently, but you have a mission statement, you have a vision, you have goals, you know, and then from there you could develop all the actionable items that will be your strategy. 00;05;04;16 - 00;05;31;16 And then the team definition where you can break down tasks by role and things like that, and you can start to put the resources in motion to to begin the path towards those objectives. So maybe to bring value and understand the type of impact is do I think we'll start with clarity? First, we need to understand it. 00;05;31;26 - 00;05;54;01 Well, I think that's where we talked before. Communication and listening, asking questions comes into play right and I think kind of tying those together is, you know, one of the things I think is when you don't know what the impact should be or needs to be. Right. It's often it is how you ask questions of, you know, a person or organization or a manager is what are they looking for? 00;05;54;06 - 00;06;21;07 What do they need? You know, what results do they want? What is bothering them? I was love to say that, you know, the best employees often go to their manager and say, let's keep you awake at night. What is worrying you? Right. What are the biggest problems, you know, in your mind? Because, you know, if you solve those problems, the things that are keeping your manager and your organization away awake at night, those are the things that will have the greatest impact. 00;06;21;27 - 00;06;58;27 You said that and thought of I think it was General Mattis I'm the one that keeps the others awake at night or something to that effect is is this quote. So, you know, and I think we look at it as clearly we can talk about it in all kinds of ways. But when you look at it where you have external goals and internal goals, so if you're a customer facing the customer, facing any any entity outside of what you or your organization is, and then you have internal because while we're doing this, everything that we've spoken about in previous episodes and what all of us have rooted into our being is I want to get something 00;06;58;27 - 00;07;28;01 out of it also. So value is twofold, right? I want to be able to provide value to the external entities. Our customer focus our organizational goals and things like that. But if I don't feel fulfilled, then it's not reciprocating value. And I want to make sure that we're also including the impact. It's got to be impactful not only for the purpose of why we're driving towards common goals with others, but we want to also have an impact for ourselves so we feel fulfilled and we can continue the motivation and the desire in that purpose. 00;07;28;23 - 00;08;04;27 So, you know, when we talk about impact that this leads to and it just so happens, it's men's Health Awareness Month, right? And so it can be anybody's it doesn't matter, you know, to have your mental mindset preserved you know, impactful, being impactful also has to include that that internal component. And so when we think about where we're going and it's got to be measurable, what are some of the key elements that can serve both purposes? 00;08;06;02 - 00;08;23;29 You know, I think I'll be bad. I say, you know, let's bring a book into the conversation like we do for every podcast. Right. And so, you know, Chris and I say, please be useful right? And what am I talking about here? It's like, well, I'm going back. You know, I'm going to you know, are Arnold Schwarzenegger's latest book, you know, B would be useful, right? 00;08;24;07 - 00;08;42;05 And I've actually been reading it recently and I think one of the things is that of kind of tying this together and I thought was just great for, you know, our podcast this morning is that you it's not just about building a vision. It's not just, you know, understanding things. It's that really of how you're investing in yourself. 00;08;42;05 - 00;09;02;04 Right. To realize a vision, to realize a goal. And having the impact. And it's not just something that you spend 5 minutes on. Right. Arnold Schwarzenegger talked about his book. He said, hey, when he was trying to be a weightlifter or, you know, Olympian. Right. He spent 5 hours a day. Right. You know, working out. Then he should only do two and a half in the morning and two and a half in the afternoon. 00;09;02;05 - 00;09;21;24 Right. And he said this is the same as actually if you have a vision for your life or you have a vision for what you want to achieve. And he said you may have to spend 5 hours a day to do it, but that's because that's an example of doing something above and beyond to have the ultimate goal, the ultimate dream. 00;09;22;12 - 00;09;29;08 And I think that's a great book to really kind of emphasize and kind of use as a catalyst for this conversation. 00;09;30;29 - 00;09;59;05 That's a good example because I think what I heard from that was a description of lessons learned. And so in the process of pursuing objectives or goals, right. So in this case, by building, right? For that example or scalability, you know, increasing the organizational scalability potential or effectively delivering X within a certain amount of time frame you could, you could, you could say that we did that. 00;09;59;16 - 00;10;38;03 But what the other components are that consist of what happens while you're doing that can also be perceived as impactful. You know, hey, we did this. But when while we were doing that, we also learned this. And so in this case, you know, there's a a time frame in which things were allocated to perform a particular task. And then as time went on, it was learned that, you know, addressing how that timeline was split up to optimize the ability to be more effective, more efficient, more scalable, more sustainable, you know, there's an outcome there that you wouldn't really understand until you had actually gone through it. 00;10;40;03 - 00;11;03;05 What kind of building upon that example is he said what? He went to make a movie like a Terminator. He said, yeah, he spent 5 hours a day. Right. You know, there's I it being blindfolded and shooting a gun. So he never blinked again. Right. Or he's trying to become you know, the governor of California said he spent 5 hours a day, you know, studying all the issues and things like that because he said the impact he had was enormous or he wanted to have is enormous. 00;11;03;06 - 00;11;06;14 So he had, you know, invest enormously to achieve that. 00;11;07;00 - 00;11;40;07 Yeah. And most of us can relate to that. The more you're ever you're putting into something, you're in control of that. And so I can't help but think about a word that can help describe this, because there's an element here that we're all understanding. It's necessary is leadership where we have informal and formal leaders. But these are the ones that are in a hierarchal or oppositional position of influence that guide or take us from one place to the other and then be able to manage it effectively the results. 00;11;40;07 - 00;12;00;27 And so we can stay on track. But I think a lot of those things, as you learn, is to be impactful is the perception that you know, hey, David, the way that you're doing that is impactful. Keep going. Or, Hey, David, in order to achieve a greater impact for what we're trying to do, you know, would you would you be able to do this, that or the other thing? 00;12;01;08 - 00;12;25;11 In those two examples of the many, we can start to talk about the management or leadership style to where some of us as we learn and we grow, we need less oversight. Right. And that's now I'm going to introduce to micromanage micro and macro managers. Right. So some of us perform at a high level when we have a lot of autonomy that that's gained through experience. 00;12;25;11 - 00;12;48;05 And that, again, you've earned that by being impactful. What are your thoughts on how the dynamics between it within an organization? Let's say when you have multiple people in an organization trying to do the same thing differently? What do you think some of the elements are that we have to continuously watch to make sure that we're reciprocating the impact? 00;12;49;18 - 00;13;08;28 So I think one of the things that we talked about in like I think in our previous podcast about communication is one element is being clear on what the results will be. Right. So you can think about stuff like, hey, this is the impact people want you to have. It is the result they want you to achieve. But you're going to be clear, is it is the results they're going to achieve? 00;13;08;28 - 00;13;33;04 Right, because you could be off on that. You you know, you could you could perceive incorrectly. You could think incorrectly. And really when you what sometimes writing things down and asking maybe this is what we want to achieve. Is that correct? And then people validating it. That is very, very important because otherwise the impact you think you're going to have may not be the the actual results that are achieved. 00;13;34;01 - 00;13;39;21 What happens when there's a breakdown during that process of pursuing clarity? 00;13;40;05 - 00;13;59;00 Well, I think a bigger question is then there could be breakdowns at the beginning and are be breakdowns along the way. Right. And so I think it's it's kind of upfront is saying just like, okay, are and B are just saying like, hey, this is what we're going to achieve and these are the results. And sometimes I think it's very important to call out who is the customer of that result. 00;13;59;00 - 00;14;18;23 Right. And say an internal customer. External customer, maybe a person, maybe a group. Who is the customer? Right. And what are they going to achieve? And people agree with that. That's a good point. And then also, I think is always having milestones along the way saying how are the results are achieving the results? We expected right. You know, are we continuing measuring that? 00;14;18;23 - 00;14;20;27 If we don't, you can get off track very quickly. 00;14;21;21 - 00;14;45;28 Yeah. And I can't help think of the word mastery at that point. Like you know, a word that would help define how skilled you are to be able to recognize what does it take? So again, previous episodes have included elements of what we can put in our toolbox. So we have these levers to pull when we need to and how to become effective communicator. 00;14;45;28 - 00;15;12;21 How do you make sure that your understanding how to make, how to make yourself presence or be known the visibility component right where others see you and what you're doing? Because of course, that's you know, that's one of those milestone Check-In points where people can see what's occurring and then know how the different leadership or how the different roles will contribute. 00;15;13;18 - 00;15;32;05 The value of those roles they gives at a time or a period of time will go by and something will change. And we know this all the time. Organizational change, right? So something happened last week. We made we had a discussion. We made some some goals and some tasks. We distributed the tasks and we said, let's check in next week. 00;15;32;05 - 00;15;54;05 Well, within that timeframe, things changed. Something happened. So in the journey we've discovered and we made some accomplishments that changed the dynamics or the trajectory or the plan. So we have to check in every now and again to make sure that whatever's occurred since the last time we talked, what you just said is are we aligned or are we still in line for the things that we had discussed before? 00;15;54;13 - 00;16;12;24 Or what has changed? And this comes to back to I think is the mastery or the skill of the one, you know, really good program managers or project manager. We're going to stay on exactly what we're talking about. And effective leaders will also understand you're going to be able to understand now what everybody else is saying at the right level, the detail. 00;16;12;24 - 00;16;32;23 Because what you and I had talked about before, I can't remember when you as as a senior vice president or exposed to a lot of high level discussions, that is a culmination of everybody else's tasks passed up into context. So there's some relatable messaging that gives you the sense of what's going on. 00;16;34;11 - 00;17;13;17 I think one of the points, let's call it the real world example, right? We work on a result, right? It's very easy to find. The trap is like, I'm going to enhance something, I'm going to improve something, I'm going to extend something. Right. In an element of seeing that. Well, what does that really mean? Right. Those are ways where so many people fall into the trap of like you have ambiguous or ambiguous know impact goals or have ambiguous results and really want you to say, is that okay, we are going to improve the performance of the system and we can get 10% more power savings. 00;17;13;17 - 00;17;37;00 You know, things like that is like, oh, okay, you can measure it any time you try to have a goal or deliver impact that you can't actually measure in a physically or logically, it's always going to be a trap of mis, you know, missed results. Rate is I think it's easy to create things that are saying that you're going to improve something, but like, oh, how do you measure that? 00;17;38;01 - 00;17;54;11 Chris So let's say, okay, we're going to make this a podcast. We're going make this podcast, you know better. Okay, how do we measure that right now? We said we're going to have 10% more listeners next month. Like, Oh, okay, we can measure that. Did we achieve that or not? 00;17;55;11 - 00;18;39;04 Yeah. I think what you in between that you had said something about kind of equated to the e autonomy. Somebody is going to discover something and then realize real time maybe that something else is needing to be done. And I think that comes back down to the skill sets that have developed over time where communicating in this case is going to be necessary because if it hasn't been discussed in the plan, now we're getting down to the next level of a plan or goals that says, hey, if if we're doing this, we're going to expect this is our contingent planning piece planning right? 00;18;39;05 - 00;19;10;07 We're going to say, if we achieve this and this occurs, then this, then we're going to define what that is. That way we know that if it doesn't happen the way we expected, we're going to have to stop, reassess, and then recalibrate what we're going to do and then get agreement to continue on. What do you think would be the inhibitors or the ability, the things that would prevent us from having that occur without being too disruptive? 00;19;11;10 - 00;19;29;26 You know, actually, I think this is raising a really good point here. I think one thing is, is that jumps to mind immediately is people don't want to plan up front. It's easy to kind of jump in and get it running down, you know, running down the road and realizing like, okay, what's the time I really wanted to achieve here? 00;19;29;26 - 00;19;50;06 Right. Well, no, you need a planet just like a marathon or half marathon or five days. Like, you know, you're going to go in in a race. It's like, okay, what's your goal? You define that upfront, don't you? Or, you know, Chris, I know you run lots of marathons, right? So would you actually kick off or running 26.2 miles and you say, oh, I don't know what I'm going to how fast I'm going to go I'm, you know, whatever it is I'm going to finish. 00;19;50;06 - 00;19;57;20 So so then why do people start trying to have impact without measuring planning what the results are going to be from the very start? 00;19;57;27 - 00;20;36;03 They're defining what it is now. You're right. And I think we're stumbling across it now that, you know, to be impactful is relative. It's a perception based opinion, and it has to be something that everybody understands whose opinion it is right. To be impactful. Is it my managers for me, if I am trying to achieve goals successfully and make sure that I'm doing my job properly, then my whoever's in charge of me, whether directly or indirectly, whoever has influence on me, right? 00;20;36;03 - 00;20;59;09 Because I'll be I may be working with other other teams and people where that collective feedback is going to come back to some gatekeeper, whoever that may be, that will have an influence on my my career, my future, or me being able to continue on this particular project or task or effort. You know, it's just one of those things that it has to be agreed upon, you know, who's whose opinion matters. 00;20;59;09 - 00;21;24;19 So to bring impact, we have to understand who the stakeholders are, who the decision makers are, who the ones that matter most, and then who are the other key components are personnel that matter, but play a particular role in how it can be a collective input that provides that perspective into that key decision maker, that key leader. That's a good point. 00;21;24;20 - 00;21;27;12 Is defining the team, you know, who who's involved? 00;21;28;14 - 00;21;47;07 Well, I think that's a I don't want to get into there at this point, but it's almost like the race, right? Is kind of like who's who's a participant, right? Who's the approver? Right. Who's a reviewer? Right. Who's an informant? Right. And just like that, planning those should be defined upfront is part of it because you never want to say okay, here's the results and here's the plan. 00;21;47;13 - 00;21;53;18 Well, I don't know who's the approval of this. Right. Wow. What a horrible spot to end up in. 00;21;54;23 - 00;22;31;21 Yeah. You don't you don't want to learn after the fact. And then you get surprised because then we're talking about morale. You know, the the impact that has occurred has an effect on not only the organization. And we keep saying organization. I'm going to box this in. This is this is everyday life. This is everything that occurs in what we do, even from waking up and doing whatever you doing to get ready to go, whatever it is that you do here in the day or the night or whatever, it's just an understanding of I'm supposed to be doing this and here's why and here's where I know I don't need to do it anymore, right? 00;22;31;22 - 00;23;21;14 So we've achieved something the the people, the, the ripple effect, the people that are impacted by different context, the people that are affected. When we drive towards being impactful, we have to have that to be a consideration. Because if we're too focused or narrowly focused on that one thing and we don't do what you just talked about, plan accordingly, to where we can know the risk factors, we aren't capable now of truly capturing what that ultimate outcome, which we can consider to be the impact, what that ultimate outcome can cause, because then we may end up doing what's common when we don't plan effectively. 00;23;21;14 - 00;23;22;16 As we cause more issues. 00;23;23;14 - 00;23;42;16 Absolutely. You know, another thing, Chris, I was thinking about here is that I think you touched on a bit earlier is that as you get down into the implementation or the execution of a plan, the plans can change, right? Because there can be variables that aren't known, right? You could run into blockers, you to run in obstacles. You could run into you know, difficulties. 00;23;42;16 - 00;24;07;28 And so the plan can change. And that's not that's not bad, right? It's was that you're always understanding and watching for it. And that's where the milestones come in saying, okay, the assumptions that we had, the variables that we knew in various we didn't know. Right. Is there some change? So then let's update our plan. Let's update the results let's check in with all the reviewers and the participants with check in with the approver is like, is this the right new plan? 00;24;07;29 - 00;24;11;29 Is this the right new results? Right. And that's very, very important. To always keep in mind. 00;24;12;28 - 00;24;35;07 Yeah. So maybe, maybe let's toy with this idea. Let's, let's apply it to something specific because I I don't know about you, but I feel like we're so ambiguous at this moment that I know, no, we're being impactful in this conversation. But I do think that we've set a good framework by introducing a bunch of different things. So, one, you have to know what you're wanting to do. 00;24;35;25 - 00;25;05;24 So let's apply it to transition. Let's let's spread it across any type of transition. You're moving from one place to another. In this case, we'll keep it with our veteran affiliated community and we'll say we have service members getting ready to make a choice when there's too much information out there and there is a lot of information, it's probably too much, but some of it may be considered to be valuable based off of how you're seeing it, right? 00;25;05;24 - 00;25;23;02 Whatever lens you're wearing and how you feel and all those types of things. And your scenario could be unique in a sense of where it's applicable. Got it. However, the bigger picture is, generally speaking, there's a ton of information out there, and it's hard to choose which one. It's like a thought, right? If you don't know where to start, stand in front of your garage. 00;25;23;02 - 00;25;42;26 You see, you want to clean your garage and there's a bunch of stuff that you have to do. Where do you start? Have to know what you're trying to achieve. These are your objectives. Your goals doesn't have doesn't matter if it's short term, near-term, long term, it has to be something. And then from there, it's to say, Well, how do I think I need to get there? 00;25;43;07 - 00;26;17;04 And this is key because this now comes back down to what we've always been talking about is the mindset, open mindset, growth mindset, close mindset, fixed mindset. You know, Carol Dweck has that book mindset where it's fixed growth. You know, all of those things factor into to understand some other things that we've talked about. Your mindset could shift based off of little acts of or events that have occurred to where now you've learned something and now you need to make the adjustment, which is what we've just been talking about. 00;26;17;18 - 00;26;46;04 So you have to know what you want to do. You have to think about how you're going to get there. You have to have an open mindset to know that as you pursue this, you're going to learn some things and you have to be willing to take what you learn and apply it. If you think about all of the other folks that have also transitioned, one question that I always want to ask somebody is What made you stop listening to what people have shared with you about how to do this? 00;26;47;18 - 00;27;07;17 You know, I think, you know, one thing comes to mind is there to issue you read out the there's great examples and steps, Chris, is that you got to write it down, right? How many people are successful in just things that are in their memory or they're in their head? Right. Or they talked about once. Right. I can't think of too many examples of that. 00;27;07;21 - 00;27;31;05 Or how do you have check points with your team, your organization, if it's not written down, you say, yeah, let's go off the top of her head every once a month. Like, how are we doing against our results and what was our results? Did I remember correctly you know, so it's one things on that because when they're written down, right, you can reference them, you can use them, and they will reinforce all of your structure and behaviors. 00;27;33;02 - 00;27;57;18 Right? Yes. It's an infinite loop. And if you don't have it in front of you, you don't have a focus right now. You could I could be wrong. I'm absolutely not skilled and experienced in the depth of what that could be. As far as a specialization you know, having your thoughts versus writing it down, you could be focused on your thoughts if you're very skilled at it. 00;27;57;18 - 00;28;17;20 But is that a way to do it? Maybe there's a technique that you're introducing now is to say, well, instead of that and relying on that because that can be so elusive, then write it down. And when you write it down now, you have a point of reference. How often do we like because you've labeled me some running fanatic to where my knees would argue the point. 00;28;18;06 - 00;28;46;26 But when we're out doing something, walking by ourselves in our in our own mind and we think about things, how often do we have this epiphany? So things change. If you have recall, great if you have the ability to recall through being able to see it, you can go back to say, well, that was my thought before. Now I have this new thought and this is journaling, and you're creating a trail of how your thought began and where your thought is growing. 00;28;47;23 - 00;29;10;12 And maybe the thought will end if you no longer have it be a priority, but you have you have the ability to trace it and then go back to these things that can help develop these dynamics that allow you to maneuver through the conditions where ambiguity might be coming. Right. It's determining now there's too much space for me to know where to focus on and I don't know where to start. 00;29;10;25 - 00;29;29;23 And then you potentially have a higher probability of no longer pursuing it, because now it becomes overwhelming. These types of things, you know, to be impactful, you have to be able to understand where you started and where you want to go. So you can lessons learned, you can do lessons learned, but also you can bring people with you and then you can understand what was what was valuable what was impactful. 00;29;30;17 - 00;29;31;28 That got you to that next step. 00;29;33;10 - 00;29;56;11 In kind of building upon that is I think there's one thing as well. It's just your goal and is just you and no one else, right? Yep, absolutely. You can think about it as a point of mind, but anything is like how you bring others, right? From engagement, from a from a collaboration perspective. Like what I even think about recently for us at Oracle, we have our Maven 11 kind of initiative, right? 00;29;56;11 - 00;30;23;17 Is like the 11 days, you know, going up to the Veterans Day, right? We, we use our slack, we use email that 11. We, we called out and said, hey everybody every day, you know, kind of send a slack message, you know, what did you achieve that day. It had impact. It had impact on me is like, oh what I've forgotten about it great is I was a motivated seeing others had big impact is amazing how the impact of one small thing of just using some tools in setting the goals and results and then being public about it. 00;30;23;17 - 00;30;27;10 It was motivating and drove me did it do the same for you. 00;30;29;03 - 00;30;58;16 Did and that's a good call out and while we're there you know huge shout out to the military affiliated veteran employee network board where they allow this idea sharing to come up because that that came from an idea means basically what we're talking about we have a large organization filled with veteran affiliated people. Right so we have spouses, we have family members, we have parents we have veterans, we have reservists. 00;30;59;00 - 00;31;20;14 We have all of those components inside this organization. And we're all looking for something. And when we bring people together, and we discover that commonality, what can we do to be impactful? What do we want to do to encourage to retain that camaraderie, retain that feeling of that purpose? That we can have in that common bond that we've we've shared through generations? 00;31;21;21 - 00;31;50;20 We we came up and we landed on through a conversation. We landed on well, for Veterans Day, let's do maybe 11 for 11 days leading up to Veterans Day. We'll do an activity. And this goes back to the health benefits of being active from the mental state, the emotional state, the physical state, the nutritional value, all of these elements to where we're putting in front of us a target, a goal, an objective and the objective was to try to replicate something in a new environment. 00;31;51;12 - 00;32;08;08 And how we did that was brought people together, talked about what we could do and it's a living, breathing thing. It was occurring over time and it kept evolving. And it will continue to evolve because we've introduced so many different things in alternatives that allows us to do those types of things. So how do we measure the impact? 00;32;08;24 - 00;32;28;22 Well, actually, Chris, let me try that. We measure impact because we used the Slack channel, right? We we had registration, made a Slack channel and we measured, right? We watched who was participating, who was actually reporting the results like that, that we measured it. Right? That was what mattered in the environment. There's a reward saying, well, you don't get swag if you actually don't report it. 00;32;28;22 - 00;32;32;19 So we measured what mattered, right? And we're rewarding people that achieve the goals. 00;32;33;12 - 00;32;53;17 Yeah. Good point. Yep. And we did it in a sense to where we left. We left the, the autonomy there, right? Because it didn't matter what people were doing. We weren't monitoring to make sure that people were actually doing something other than just to, to give an incentive, you know, that they could have a purpose for the next day. 00;32;53;18 - 00;33;10;09 You know, for some of us that maybe pushed a little too hard on this thing that were our physical limitations or our desire and all that stuff was having us in a certain way one day and we did something, we pushed ourselves hard that day and the next day maybe we're a little sore, but we woke up and somebody else was doing something and we were like, you know what? 00;33;10;23 - 00;33;44;08 That person's doing it. I'm doing it. Got us up out and doing it. And, you know, the level of engagement is based off of perception that we talked about. It's relative to those that, you know, in this case were the the creators of it to make sure that it wasn't terrible, meaning, you know, it was safely done. We put you know, resources in to make sure that they have a way to to reference what's needed for them to to to maintain and sustain the things that are necessary to be safe and and capable. 00;33;44;21 - 00;34;07;08 You know, but I think at the end of the day, we defined early on, here's what we're trying to do. Here's how we're going to we're going to measure it. And here's how we're not going to measure it. Measure it. How do you make sure you don't over measure or over state? How are you going to let's not even overstate how do you measure your oversight to make sure that it's not too restrictive? 00;34;08;28 - 00;34;45;17 Well, that's a good question. I think one of the first, you know, gaps or challenged I think people run into is you measuring too much, right? You over measure, right. And sometimes pressure, you know, the analysis paralysis. Right. Is like we have a goal and you say let's have 15 different measurements like now is that really what matters because ultimately and this is sometimes the ah the science behind it is identify is what is the one or two things that you can measure that really will be indicators of the entire impact you don't want every performance angle is it's not like hey in an airplane like we're going to look at 15,000 different sensors and say 00;34;45;17 - 00;35;02;29 we're going to track each one of I know we want to know do we get up in the air and do we land with everyone alive. Right. That's what matters in the end. That's what matters isn't it. So I'm being overly simplistic but I think there is an element is that you really of coming back to who is the customer, right? 00;35;02;29 - 00;35;19;15 And what does success look like for that customer? And then what's at what's one metric, what's one litmus test that we can use for that? Right. And I think coming back to our mission is kind of ultimately is we had engagement rate. You know, it was about how many people engaged, right? You know, it was for the greater the who was the customer. 00;35;19;15 - 00;35;30;01 It was the community itself. Right. And really, I think this was slack and I think it came into play. We could actually see how many people are engaging. And that was a way we measured. And because there was a lot I think it was a big success. 00;35;31;24 - 00;36;07;17 And I would agree. I mean, it's yeah, there's different ways to do that. I mean, we keep talking about it humble, humble, brag about it because, you know, it is it's something we hold dear for for for us for our reasons and we'll leave it there. But so we have we have this this idea we've created a place for those ideas to be shared and heard and regulated I mean, because there's some there's some real far out ideas that that are possible, but probably not in the current state maybe. 00;36;07;17 - 00;36;28;16 And we start to think about futuristic. So in any case, the dialog was created for everybody to come together to think about things in you and yourself. And we have this we'll go back to the transition mindset. We know where we want to go. We're thinking about how we're going to get there. We're having an open mind to consider what happens when I'm going to hear from people. 00;36;28;19 - 00;36;48;00 I'm going to go out, I'm going to talk to people, I'm going to I'm going to figure out how to do this. This kind of the duality of this issue now that's been created as I have internal a perspective where over over a period of years where we always get jammed up is, well, this is the way I've done it. 00;36;48;12 - 00;37;09;21 I'm going to continue to do it this way. And if we're that's why that open mind is critical, because if you're hearing something that you don't like, we all know that sometimes that's what you need to hear when you're not hearing what you want to hear. There's a reason for that. And so when we start to classify what we need to hear as something that I don't want to hear, what do you do with that? 00;37;09;21 - 00;37;27;18 And that's the benefit of now opening yourself up to hear things that you haven't heard previously, because that's where your growth potential could occur. When you have that and operate as an opportunity in front of you and then you act on it. I think that's kind of the fore fourth element here is to be impactful. You have to get to the next step and do something with it. 00;37;29;27 - 00;37;49;28 Well, something like coming back to a point which I think maybe lateral that is, sometimes you can you can define the doors that that you want to achieve and are measuring, but it's also okay to define the things that you don't want to achieve, right? Is I'll say this is not a priority. This is not you know, it's not about this. 00;37;49;28 - 00;38;04;22 It's not about A, B and C, right. Sometimes that gives a lot of clarity on the results you do want to achieve. And there's less confusion because you've got all of of the the negatives, let's say the negative is defined or the non goal is defined as well. 00;38;06;02 - 00;38;25;08 So right. David, so that the non goals I mean these are these are factors are things that we all know, you know, a plant, a plan is defined based off of what's known and even what's not known will be known like, hey, we know this. So we're going to try to do that and be aware of these things. 00;38;25;08 - 00;38;43;29 And that's the unknown, right? So we factor in some of the things that are unknown with the open mind. We're able to kind of make a clear delineation between where our left and right and a backstop would be like if we occur if we encounter too many things that we didn't plan for, we need to stop. So now we have a measure, a time, a timeline to be able to let's reassess. 00;38;44;15 - 00;39;09;11 But then we factor in the things that we weren't aware of, which now comes with other people if other people come into the equation and have input. My question to anybody really is what are you willing because we can't talk about these external occurrences. Do we ever how often do we account for the internal occurrence to say, somebody is going to tell me something? 00;39;10;17 - 00;39;31;24 How am I going to see that as one of those factors that we accounted for? And take ourselves out of what that person saying? This is feedback. I mean, basically you can equate it to feedback. Are we going to hear it for what it is and then do something with it or are we going to dismiss it? And this is listening to your leaders write all of these elements that we talk about. 00;39;32;04 - 00;39;37;18 When you listen to others, who are you considering the ones that are valuable enough to be heard. 00;39;39;20 - 00;40;02;04 Well, I think that's a great point. You know, coming back and communication, listening, right. You know, the connections on, I think a part of the goal is going back to the element of the RACI, the approver, right. You know, who who who is the approver? Who is going to track the results? Is their perception or their acceptance of the results, you know, is that the right person for that? 00;40;02;04 - 00;40;03;29 Right. I think it's very, very important to call out. 00;40;05;18 - 00;40;32;13 Yeah, it's it's it is it's a tough one because when you're when you're intensely focused on a path that has been defined under different circumstance, ounces in the warmth, the safety comfort of wherever you are, you're developing a plan on your whiteboard while you have coffee in your hand. You know, you're you're comfortable and then you get out. 00;40;32;13 - 00;40;59;23 And now it's uncomfortable because the inclement weather, it's cold. It's it's not where you want to be. How does information occur to you in different environments and circumstances where you're going to continue on with the point as as you act, you should understand completely that that's your learning environment. And that's probably the only I mean, this is debatable, but this is me talking. 00;41;01;20 - 00;41;20;08 That's the only thing that you should ever carry into your mindset is everything that's going to happen after I take this next step is something that I need. I need to learn, I need to pay attention to. I need to factor in what I'm going to do next. Now, you can compartmentalize it. You can say well, that's that's important, that's urgent. 00;41;20;18 - 00;41;37;06 That's not as important. That's relevant. Maybe not relevant now. But I'm going to make note. This goes back to what you're saying, writing it down. So you have a, you know, some nuggets and breadcrumbs to go back to you to say so-and-so said something a couple of weeks ago that I didn't know that it meant something then, but it means something now. 00;41;37;15 - 00;41;51;25 And you have record of it and you can incorporate it because you never know when these things will come together to build something. The pieces to the puzzle. You're going to get pieces over time that you never know if it's going to actually surface itself to be relevant in the future. You don't know, but you have to think about it. 00;41;52;20 - 00;41;59;28 Well, I think I spot on, Chris. I that's why we had all the bulls written down for maybe 11 because like everyone on Veterans Day was doing a marathon, wasn't that correct? 00;42;02;15 - 00;42;12;11 I think you need to wear your bow tie and your sweater vest, get out there and do that marathon. If you do that, I'll run with you all right. 00;42;12;11 - 00;42;16;19 As long as I your game for under three 30 Boston qualifier Chris Stapleton. 00;42;17;29 - 00;42;19;05 Not saying it's impossible. 00;42;20;06 - 00;42;28;04 That's right. If it was the end of the world and if we got invaded like in the red movie Red Dawn right. Yep yep. We'll run some marathons yeah. 00;42;28;09 - 00;42;53;29 Chase me and we'll see what happens. I don't know yeah. So you know thinking about where you want to go thinking about how you can get there and your current mindset knowing that your current mindset is not the future mindset think about what you're going to incorporate as part as far as the, the contributors to your growth to know if, if what you're doing is aligned to what you set out to do. 00;42;55;07 - 00;43;18;06 Anticipate that you're going to learn things along the way and have that as your primary objective so you can receive information or clarity without interference of your self-talk or your conditioned mindset that has you thinking, Well, this is the way I've done it before. This is how I'm going to do it again. I mean, there's there's limitations on that. 00;43;18;06 - 00;43;40;01 And I think we all get that context and then what how are you going to incorporate as you learn, what are you going to need to do to be impactful? It takes a little bit of work I think the thing that you landed on early, David, was key the plan. What is the plan? Because some of us just have an idea and then we execute on that idea. 00;43;40;11 - 00;43;58;02 I use your analogy, so sitting on my butt for several months, I used to run sitting on my butt for several months. I go out and try to run that tank. Not good. It's not a great idea. Your hips will tell you things, right? Your knees will tell you things. All right. So I use those as an indicator. 00;43;58;02 - 00;44;07;18 And the analogy of like you can't just get up and do stuff if you've never done it before and think that you're going to get to where you want to be. And if you do well, congrats. You're lucky. 00;44;08;14 - 00;44;26;10 I think a spot on, you know, kind of on closing, Chris, is that ultimately you set your goal, build your plan. Who is the customer? Sometimes the customer is yourself. Sometimes the customer is your boss. Sometimes your customer is an external customer. Then define how you're going to measure that result in a way that you can actually measure. 00;44;26;12 - 00;44;44;21 Right. And the last but not least, right you have regular check points and milestones until they actually look, are we on plan? Do we need change the plan? Are we going to achieve the results or not is sometimes there can be things are coming up but you adjust. You now have a new plan, you have update the customer, update your approval, and then you get ready to go. 00;44;45;15 - 00;44;51;22 Well stated. Last thing, listen to your people all right. David Z it. 00;44;53;17 - 00;45;11;06 Is that it, Chris? Well, we're never ending. You know, our goal is that every month we're going to get 10% more listeners to the podcast and we're not going to we're going to take the variables, we're going to get the feedback on that and we, we're going to continue to strive to that. And because we can keep doing that forever, it can't we? 00;45;12;01 - 00;45;25;10 We could. I'm going to, I'm going to throw something out here. It's just we're talking about that. If you got this far into this podcast, and this episode and you hear this send send David and I have a LinkedIn message and say, I heard it. 00;45;27;15 - 00;45;45;23 We loved it. We'd love to hear from you. And I would say that people that have reached out to us, I respond to every single one. We welcome the feedback and because we want to make this better for the community. And so we're excited to get all your messages. And even though I get a gazillion messages from LinkedIn scammers or what else, I respond to everyone. 00;45;45;24 - 00;45;46;14 Believe it or not. 00;45;47;07 - 00;45;50;12 I believe it already. One Keep moving forward. 00;45;50;24 - 00;45;51;11 Let's roll.…

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EXOS: Reflection and Regulation with Colin Young 45:05

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45:05

Reviewing one’s activity and experiences to assess the effect or value of the outcome is what we often do with intention, sometimes without even realizing we are doing it. Thinking about how we performed, interacted with others, or maybe even didn’t do enough is important. What’s more important is how we manage those thoughts where we regulate what we think, how we feel, and what we need to do. There are specific techniques that help! Focusing on the mental and cognitive aspects of our performance is a key component in the complete package of personal optimization. We’re talking Reflection and Regulation. Listen in as Colin and I continue our discussion journey of how EXOS delivers value toward helping get you ready for the moments that matter. Remember to take time to care for yourself. We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - cyoung@teamexos.com - jmason@teamexos.com - sunderwood@teamexos.com - ahobgood@teamexos.com - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ ---------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;33;07 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our guest, Colin Young, senior director of Operations with Axios, reviewing one's activity and experiences to assess the effect or value of the outcome is what we often do with intention. 00;00;33;16 - 00;00;55;11 Sometimes without even realizing we're doing it thinking about how we performed, interacted with others, or maybe didn't do enough are important. What's more important is how we manage those thoughts, where we regulate what we think, how we feel, and what we need to do. There are specific techniques that help. Focusing on the mental and cognitive aspect of our performance is a key component in the complete package of personal optimism. 00;00;55;22 - 00;01;12;11 Today, we're talking reflection and regulation. Listen in as Colin and I continue our discussion journey of how EXOS delivers value towards helping you get ready for the moments that matter. Remember to take time to care for yourself. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. 00;01;12;12 - 00;01;28;08 As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Collins Contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn Call and what's going on. 00;01;29;09 - 00;01;30;10 Good morning. Good afternoon. 00;01;31;11 - 00;01;59;20 Hey, it's great to have you, Colin. You know, I know we've we've got a pretty good schedule going on. And for everybody out there listening, we've got Colin Young here, who is the senior director of operations within XO. And the topic for today that Colin will speak to is focused on reflection and regulation. And in the scheme of everything that we're putting together, how we broken down on these components, it's important that we we cover the whole gamut and make sure that we're talking about how to think about things and consider what you're going to do moving forward. 00;01;59;21 - 00;02;05;22 So the depth will come from Colin and everything that he's going to do to explain it. So Colin. 00;02;06;10 - 00;02;15;04 So you know, you're expecting depth. All right. You know, I usually hang out with my son in the shallow area, but I'll do my best to dove in with you today. 00;02;15;05 - 00;02;17;04 So let's go. Yeah. 00;02;18;02 - 00;02;39;01 So, yeah, so I'm really excited to be here. My background for, for those that probably haven't heard my name is in coaching in general. I started as a strength coach, like many folks who have been with EXOS for a long time. Right. We were athletes performance a long time ago. And have since rebranded and expanded. And so I started coaching at a young age. 00;02;39;17 - 00;02;58;18 I was involved in sports in high school and college, played college baseball and it was a small school. So oddly enough, I ended up being our strength coach my senior year. So I got my first kind of like dabble into that world before I was even out of there. I was an extra science and sports science major, so I really enjoy the coaching aspect of it. 00;02;58;28 - 00;03;27;24 Went on to join athletes performance in its infancy, and we expanded and now we coach in a lot of different realms. We coach in the workplace, we coach incorporate fitness facilities, but still rooted in that kind of like athlete's background. Which I always very much relate to myself. So now what I'm doing is shifted kind of pretty dramatically into more of the mental and cognitive performance side of things, which is still just coaching with a different lens. 00;03;28;05 - 00;03;56;10 And it's just been incredibly rewarding and an educational and just a ton of fun for me to to shift my lens to this new space and understanding how much overlap there is and being able to bring my experience there. So direct director of operations and say a whole lot with the title, you know about it. Yeah, that's, that's where I'm at now is operating a lot of our programs that are designed around mental and cognitive performance. 00;03;56;10 - 00;04;09;00 How can I get the most of myself? How can I get the most out of my team? How can I find the most kind of rewarding aspects of what I do and who I am as an individual each day? And that's that's my focus day to day now. 00;04;09;25 - 00;04;14;24 Got it. Now, I appreciate that backdrop but what position in baseball? 00;04;15;19 - 00;04;41;24 I was an outfielder, and then my senior year I got to D.H., which is like the best position in baseball, especially playing ball in the Pacific Northwest. You know, it's not exactly your season starts in February. It's not the greatest weather. So it's like, all right, I've been playing defense. I'm a step by the space here. Like, you guys are great, you're doing great out there, and then go up and hit, you know, three to five times a game and come back and said so yeah. 00;04;42;14 - 00;04;49;08 I got to say, because of all the great dishes out there, do you have walk on music? What was your what was your song? 00;04;49;09 - 00;05;15;02 We we did oh, man. You know, I think I was always and we'll maybe get to this. Maybe we can dissect some of my own internal workings here. I didn't I wasn't always and still to this day, not like super high volumes go, go, go type music, whether it's hip hop, rock, whatever it is. So my senior year, my walk up song was Fortunate Son by CCR. 00;05;15;05 - 00;05;15;24 Oh, there you go. 00;05;16;05 - 00;05;25;05 It's just kind of like, hey, I'm already hyped up enough to get to the play. Like, let me call myself down a little bit and kind of get zoned in. So yeah, that was my walkup song my senior year. 00;05;25;14 - 00;05;28;01 I like it. Yeah, that that paints the picture. 00;05;28;12 - 00;05;28;29 There you go. 00;05;29;16 - 00;05;33;18 All right. So so about when did you did you join XOs? 00;05;34;13 - 00;06;02;09 Yeah, I did my internship in 2008 it was where I started. And then after that I worked mostly with baseball players, obviously with my background a little bit with our combine prep program that you may or may not have touched on in previous episodes with Anthony or John or whomever. So mostly baseball guys. And then I see it, the longer, longer I've been with the company, the more it feels like a little hiatus. 00;06;03;03 - 00;06;24;18 It was on a paid internship. They didn't have anything for me. I went and got a job elsewhere. I did some coaching at a charter school coach, football and baseball and soccer and everything from like kick and giggle all the way up to two more competitive spaces. And then was a director at the YMCA for a few years at a very young age and three apartments, our wellness membership and aquatics department. 00;06;25;01 - 00;06;41;10 Oddly enough, they just kind of kicked it to me. So and then came back full time with the company in 2011. So and then since then I've held a ton of different roles. Like I said, I started as a strength coach when I came back and then kind of shifted into management and then have shifted and since into this kind of mental performance space. 00;06;41;27 - 00;06;51;22 Got it. And so what's the attract into this mental space that we're talking about and what is, what is reflection and regulation mean to the layman? 00;06;52;15 - 00;07;16;07 Yeah. So first question kind of what, what attracted me to the space? Yeah, my my other major in college was psychology. So that was always kind of around. And oddly enough, I really enjoyed my time at the Y Looking back on it, maybe I didn't enjoy it at the time, but it was it was such a rewarding experience for me to see in the grand scheme of things. 00;07;16;07 - 00;07;45;07 The YMCA is is not known for its progressiveness and excellence in the movement and fitness space. However, if you look at and think of some of the benefits and some of the things of the YMCA as well, it's community and that society just kind of so I really delve into the psychology of how to build a community, how to get someone and many someones to start a habit and keep a habit that's positive for them. 00;07;45;07 - 00;08;09;05 So you learn things like motivational interviewing, you learn things like group dynamics, just kind of on the fly and you see the attitude there. And so that really helped propel my, my interest in it and have since taken that and apply to both to my own teams that I manage within EXOS as well as with the content that we create for this kind of mental and cognitive performance space. 00;08;09;05 - 00;08;27;27 So it's always kind of been around for me. It was kind of accelerated with with the YMCA at the time with that concept of community because you know, we say all the time you could have the best program in the world. If someone doesn't show up to do it, it doesn't matter. And so it's like, you know, they get results from people just because people enjoy being there and coming back. 00;08;27;27 - 00;08;46;14 So it's like, how do you how do you pair the two to really get the most out of someone, get them coming back and then, man, you're really dialed in for one of their and so now, you know, we're where we're at with mental, mental and cognitive performance. It's it's really, really interesting to kind of apply that in the workforce. 00;08;46;25 - 00;09;17;04 And certainly for me in my own personal endeavors as well, and that's where I loved it was probably a favorite topic to talk about a reflection and regulation and what does that mean? So reflection is really just can I observe myself and my surrounding sands critiques sans ego, right? Can I do it without judgment? And then regulation is can I go through that observation again? 00;09;17;18 - 00;09;40;29 Can I then determine what is required of my own performance and those around me eventually? But typically, most of us spend a ton of time on on our own endeavors. Can I understand? Hey, here's the situation. Here's what I understand it to be and here's what's required of me as far as my own performance. And then that regulation gets into a bunch of different kind of wires that we could certainly go into a little bit. 00;09;40;29 - 00;09;54;10 So a lot of people love to just jump into regulation. It's also like yeah, so we can get into it further, but a lot of people love regulation. I kind of have spent an equal time in both, and I think you need both to maximize performance. 00;09;55;25 - 00;10;22;26 Hundred percent immediately. I'm applying it, I think, well, in the past episodes I've probably bored people with how I look at it for me. And when I'm talking to those of you that have this specialization, the principle is if I'm getting ready to go out and do something, I'm thinking about me and kind of translating and what you're saying as far as observing the surroundings, hey, my I'm recognizing my physical limitations or the abilities. 00;10;22;26 - 00;10;40;12 And so I'm going to go out and I'm going to run the mountain or I'm going to run up this hill, I'm going to run or I'm going to walk or I'm going to do something. I'm trying to trying to figure out whether or not I'm capable of doing it with the things that I know and then trying to anticipate whether I know what I should know. 00;10;40;22 - 00;10;50;28 Right. And so I'm just trying to figure out, is that is that kind of the idea between the reflection is you're kind of going through the cycles of your own mind to figure out what you want to do, where you want to do it and how you want to do it. 00;10;51;24 - 00;11;17;28 Yeah, I think, yeah. You summarized it really nicely. You know, there's there's so it starts with kind of drive, you know, we do something calls about a values exploration and kind of understanding what's driving you both in a positive and a negative. Like that's one thing we call kind of the shadow self a little bit. You know, a lot of people call the subconscious whatever it is, you know, we are as human beings are built to kind of go on autopilot. 00;11;17;28 - 00;11;34;10 And a lot of those things aren't necessarily helping us kind of get to that next level and kind of grow and do what we want to do. And so understanding what those drivers are, you might have a conscious driver of like consciously, you and I probably sit here and go, oh, I want to be as healthy as I can be. 00;11;34;16 - 00;12;03;12 I want to go train every day. I want to train hard, I want to eat healthy, I want to be present with my family. I want to do all of these things right like consciously I'm going to say, of course, we're gonna be like, yeah, you know, and but subconsciously, like, why don't we every minute or every hour of the day and every day of the week and every week of the month and month of the year, why don't we always strive towards doing those things which we consciously say Yes, that's what I want. 00;12;03;12 - 00;12;24;16 That's a driver. And that's that's kind of the, the, you know, one of the spaces you can take is, is what is truly driving me. And that's, I think, a great place to apply kind of what we would look at as a reflection. We break reflection down in the name. Reflection is a little bit misleading because it's things it kind of leads you to think retroactively. 00;12;25;02 - 00;12;46;00 And we look at it. You could also use a little bit of a synonym towards awareness and that word might spark things a little bit differently. So we break it down into three spaces. There's proactive and retroactive certainly. So like proactively to your point of doing an assessment, say I'm going on a hike or whatever, doing that assessment, like where am I truly at doing that self assessment? 00;12;46;20 - 00;13;04;17 What do I need? You know, the proactive space and then retroactive would be going out. Like how did that go? How did I feel? What did I experience? What did I do well? What could I have done better right there? Those kind of bookends of it. But then that holy grail of what we categorize under reflection or awareness is real time awareness. 00;13;04;27 - 00;13;25;02 And that's where reflection in regulation or awareness and regulation or almost an inextricably linked. It's also probably the most challenging place to get to when you're trying to upskill in this space of self-awareness for a variety of reasons. So yeah. 00;13;26;00 - 00;13;43;20 Is that just so I'm clear on that one? Because when you said it, I started to smirk. Now I'm running, I've gone through the first two things, now I'm running and I'm imagining how much this running sucks. Is that that part where it's the real time awareness to where you're going through it and then you're paying attention to what's happening while it's happening? 00;13;44;01 - 00;13;45;00 Where am I off there? 00;13;45;16 - 00;14;06;25 No, no, not at all. Yeah, that's that's part of it. Again, within that awareness we've got, we'll break it down for we love turning things into systems. I think that's what's allowed XOs to be great is you've got phenomenal, you know, the coaches and, and string coaches and within each section and with their specialties all over the place. 00;14;06;25 - 00;14;31;26 And that knowledge end up staying very tribal in nature. And with them learning what access has been able to do really well with systematize a lot of this and have it makes sense and this really makes sense to me. So it's like within real time awareness. There's three things that we're looking at. What you're definitely talking about is, is there's the kind of what we got into receptive like physically what's going on within my body at that time there's emotional awareness. 00;14;31;26 - 00;14;55;28 So like what emotions are my experiencing? Like am I, you know, okay, this is difficult. Like in what how am I tackling that? Am I frustrated? Am I, you know, looking at is is as some type of challenge, you know, whatever it is, right? What emotions are bubbling up for you? And then from kind of like a thought pattern awareness. 00;14;55;28 - 00;15;17;08 So, you know, what am I thinking? Where am I going with this? Can you this is where like meditation comes into play really really as a tool to teach this, to help you observe your thoughts, like, oh, wow, this is really challenging. Do I immediately go to school I can take this on? Do I have the self-efficacy to say this is challenging, but it's doable. 00;15;17;08 - 00;15;33;14 I can do this. I know it's difficult. I've done difficult things before. I'm going to do it or is like, I want to give up I hate this. This sucks. Whatever it is, right? There's no right or wrong within that space, but just being aware of which way you kind of go in that space. So like what are my emotions? 00;15;33;14 - 00;15;42;11 What are my thoughts and what's my body telling me doing in the space and being aware of that in real time can can be really challenging yeah. 00;15;42;11 - 00;16;05;13 That that's, that's where I think the discipline in those things is probably I'm assuming that the focus here is to get you to understand there's phases of realizations. You broke them down seemingly in chunks of threes, which is a great start, but it's procedural and you've planned for that. And this this is all again, to reiterate, this is all part of the reflective component. 00;16;05;22 - 00;16;10;28 We haven't gotten to the to the regulation part or has that kind of mixed into each. 00;16;10;28 - 00;16;48;23 Other it certainly ties into it, absolutely. You know, so emotions, right? They'll they're going to bubble up. So they might as humans were designed with these crazy, amazing survival mechanisms. And so what happens is in real time, we take in a stimulus from our environment or even from our internal environment. We might remember a stressful thing in our body is really good and our brains are really good at making something that either hasn't happened or or has happened and isn't happening to us anymore feel very real. 00;16;49;14 - 00;17;13;04 And so the stimulus could be from our external or internal environment. It bubbles it up. And then our brain the thing is that stimulus goes through the amygdala, which is at the base of our school, which is the emotive center of the brain after it's also interpreted by the central nervous system that allows us gets us ready for movement. 00;17;13;09 - 00;17;35;23 So we're already already ready to move or act and we're already feeling things before that stimulus makes it up into our frontal cortex or frontal lobe, which is where our executive function and that's where we actually cognitively and consciously can start to internalize what this is and so that's designed to help us react very quickly to a life threatening situation. 00;17;35;23 - 00;17;56;17 Right. Which was there were a lot more of those back before modern medicine and before our stressors. So it's like these stressful environments. Right. Cool. So my brain is automatically looking at some shaking bushes and interpreting all these different signals, sounds, smells, like it's all those things to say, hey, is that just the wind or a squirrel or is that something a little bit more threatening? 00;17;56;28 - 00;18;16;26 And so I perhaps chose to act it helps us with through emotions, ties it to previous experiences of, oh, it was a squirrel. Cool. You know, I might, you know, by the time he gets to the frontal lobe, I can say, yeah, that's not not a big deal. Or is it like, oh, that really resembles a time where I had to get out of Dodge. 00;18;17;03 - 00;18;44;23 And so it's we're already like anxious. We're already are our senses are heightened and we might already be a little bit frightened or scared. And so when we get a stimulus that is is sent to us there and the stimulus has shifted, now it's I get you know, someone triggered me because I they said something in a way that someone in a toxic past relationship said something or I had a bad manager or my manager isn't great in there. 00;18;45;00 - 00;19;21;08 They're, you know, sending an email in a certain tone and so that starts to trigger. And our body interprets that and our brain interprets then it ties it to a survival mechanism. Oh, if I lose my job, I can't provide for my family. You know, I'm not going to be able to to make things happen. So it bridges this huge gap for us, even though the stressors of change, the response is the same and so we're already fighting against this uphill battle of of the survival mechanism when we have especially stressful or interpretative stress for stimulus into our environment. 00;19;21;08 - 00;19;42;03 And that's where the awareness piece can come in being aware of, hey, I'm feeling a certain way. I'm feeling this physical sensation of, oh, I'm sweating or my, my stomach is upset or my heart is racing. There's the interceptor oh, my thought patterns are going, oh, I'm not very good at my job because I screw this up or whatever it is. 00;19;43;05 - 00;20;12;29 And then now being aware of that, then we can start to look at regulating in that that space. And then we can start to say, Okay, wow, this anxiety is built to help me survive. Right? There's a purpose for it, but it's not serving me right now. So then how do I, in this case, down regulate my body and my brain to help me come to a more we'll call it productive outcome for this. 00;20;12;29 - 00;20;28;28 So that's a long ways. I say it's really challenging. Why it's so challenging to both be aware in the space and also why regulation is so challenging to put into play and why you have to have both. Because if you don't know what you need to regulate you're not aware that you don't. It doesn't matter. We can be all the tools in the world. 00;20;29;03 - 00;20;33;16 You're not going be applying it properly. You're going to be trying to eat a bowl of cereal with a pitchfork or something, you know? 00;20;33;17 - 00;20;36;14 So it's a big old ball. Remember those? 00;20;36;27 - 00;20;38;16 Hey, you know what? Now I'm kind of hungry. 00;20;38;16 - 00;20;42;14 So for charter school, come in front of the TV on the table. 00;20;42;27 - 00;20;43;19 That's right. 00;20;43;19 - 00;21;08;19 Captain Crunch for days right. So I'm so thanks for that. I mean, so there's a couple of things with this to kind of just figure out where it applies in some scenarios. So, I mean, you talked about some workplace scenarios, talked about says anywhere in life, you just basically assessing when you're when you're awake and you look around, things are happening all the time. 00;21;08;19 - 00;21;25;03 You've you've regulated it right now. I know you're going to get to that. But just kind of for for all of us trying to figure out what bookmark where we are. You regulated it in a way, too, where you've now understood it enough to say threat, not threat is that we're saying, right, I'm getting up I'm walking here, no big deal. 00;21;25;16 - 00;21;43;24 But if I'm now same scenario or I'm getting up, I'm the environment's different. I'm in my tent in the middle of nowhere where I already know that there's threats of bears and wildlife and things like that. I'm getting up needing to go walk over there. I'm more alert. It's different because you're regulation hasn't yet the experience of that particular scenario. 00;21;43;24 - 00;21;54;21 So you're developing these patterns that we can maybe simplify our self-talk, right? You're trying to speak yourself through these scenarios. Is that kind of a good gauge for that situation of what you just said? 00;21;55;13 - 00;22;00;18 So you're talking about like in an actual scenario where you're out in the wild or, you know. 00;22;00;27 - 00;22;05;13 Kind of piecing it together and like this reality component of everything that you broke down? 00;22;05;25 - 00;22;32;20 Yes. Yep. So we talk about all the time. Biology will always trump psychology so, you know, self-talk can be great in more of a proactive space, you know, and saying, hey, look, we know that like talking and rewriting even more so helps ingrain things in the brain to to help us overcome. So if you're for example, you know, like your hike or you run or whatever, right? 00;22;32;21 - 00;22;53;27 Like if you get to a point where you're actually anxious or you're kind of beyond just kind of walk all of the norms of of, you know, our emotions and our reactions, psychology and psychological tactics like visualization and self-talk, they get a little bit diminished returns to the point where they may not and may not be be helpful. 00;22;53;27 - 00;23;11;23 And that's where we use things like breath quite a bit to help us use our biology to try to change the psychology. There's this interesting feedback loop, and I'm pointing between my brain and my body if we're on audio here, right? It's like we think of it as like brain and body, but like it's all the nervous system. 00;23;11;23 - 00;23;31;26 It's all it's all linked together. But there's this feedback loop of like my brain in how I thought we talked about how you can relive past experiences, and that will trigger physical response, could be anxiety, could be joy, could be whatever, and then vice versa. We can actually have our bodies say, look, we're in a safe space. You know, we don't have to be stressed out here. 00;23;32;04 - 00;23;51;27 And that's where you can kind of calm yourself down or downregulate. And so we use things like breath, we use things like vision, natural light, movements are all wonderful strategies to help us kind of up or down regulate, because there might be times where a lot of us we're talking about downregulation, there's stress and we need to kind of bring ourselves down. 00;23;52;05 - 00;24;13;08 There's also like, ah, afternoon low, I'm a little lethargic or I didn't sleep well and I need to be kind of dialed for this coming up. I mean, that's one thing why we talk so much with our special operators. The community that we work with about sleep is like, Man, you're starting this huge deficit. We know you're going to be going and going out at different times. 00;24;13;08 - 00;24;32;27 It doesn't matter. You're on the different patterns but sleep when you can because it's always kind of a huge hole to dig out of. But then and you might need to upregulate, Hey, I know I'm going into a dangerous situation. I need to be dialed. I want to have some of those things like adrenaline going through my body because it will focus my attention and energy and I will be more alert. 00;24;33;07 - 00;24;54;07 So there's kind of like, okay, turn the dial up. Turn the dial down. That's where a tie is to reflection. Hey, what do I need in this space? And we really try to use especially for Downregulation, but also for up using using biology to help us out and so that's where like breathwork comes into play is a fantastic strategy both directions, so. 00;24;54;17 - 00;25;21;02 Got it. Okay. Thanks for that. Yeah. So yeah, the second one I was going to you answered already because then I was thinking about movements. If you're, if you're injured and because of in the rehab process, you're having to address that injury the hesitation, the reluctance to do it because you had the pain receptor is recognizing if I do that, move my knees going to whatever I think my knee is going to do, whatever kind of the same thing, different scenarios. 00;25;21;02 - 00;25;23;29 I guess it's just kind of how you're imagining things. Yeah. 00;25;24;12 - 00;25;47;12 Totally. Yeah. I mean, what we're talking about, the ability to regulate the ability to kind of get ourselves up to do the hard thing to to, you know, find space and clarity in a stressful situation, very much like especially there's trauma, emotional trauma, like physical trauma. You're going to avoid it. That's a shadow driver that you may or may not be conscious of for a long period of time. 00;25;47;26 - 00;26;19;02 And so kind of digging into it in the right way and within the right boundaries is going to be critical and doing it over and over again, practicing that just like with rehab. Right it if you have a phenomenal surgeon, put everything back to back together, if you don't kind of get those reps in of putting it through the range of motion strengthening, you know, getting that confidence and like that's oftentimes a huge portion of rehab is like guys physically how the capabilities to come back from an ACL. 00;26;19;11 - 00;26;37;28 But they just it's so tough to trust it there and you've just got to get the reps in. You know, I can change direction, I can change direction, I can change direction. And then when it comes into that kind of chaotic space like on the field, then you don't have to think about it. You don't want to have to be think about it's like you make a make it unconscious. 00;26;37;28 - 00;26;59;21 And so it becomes a habit. And so it just like with that emotionally and regulating, putting yourself in those situations, and creating that tolerance to stress is is is really helpful or understanding, you know, putting the reps in to understand that awareness. Like that's where meditation like a lot of people hate it. A lot of people struggle with it. 00;26;59;22 - 00;27;17;02 Our CEO, you know, that's my I'm on, I'm on. I work with her a decent amount and that's my goal is to get her to just, you know, spend, you know, 5 minutes a month, you know, just taking, you know, stillness practice and kind of bringing the attention inward with no distractions. That takes practice and you can get better at it. 00;27;17;27 - 00;27;35;09 And so, yeah, the injury analogy is, is perfect of, hey, there's something that's driving us in that I'm working around. If I can kind of keep digging into that, keep get those reps in, I'm going to be able to regulate more when there's a little bit more stress. I'm going to be able to understand myself and how I'm going to respond in those situations. 00;27;35;15 - 00;27;40;07 And therefore make it a more productive outcome. So, yeah, it's it's spot on. 00;27;40;24 - 00;27;59;08 Got it now. Thanks for that, doc. I mean, I now I know what you mean where you're going to bounce back and forth when you try and explain one of the other. So I think we covered the reflection part and we've dabbled in the regulation component and let's dig deeper. 00;27;59;20 - 00;28;31;24 Yeah. So I'd say one of the big tools we use is a good representative of up and down regulation is, is breathwork. So we're trying to like, okay, let's make a tangible call and cool. You know, you're going off on bushes and stimulus and you know, things are going to harm me. What I like is it's kind of sounds a little bit out there, but like, okay, let's make it tangible the first thing from a reflective component that we can do is take a few moments proactively. 00;28;31;24 - 00;28;50;03 What is the day going to demand of me? Okay. Hey, I've got a podcast that I've got to chat about and try to sound smart for a few minutes. I want to make sure that I do the right things proactively to get myself ready for that. And then afterwards I'm going to say, Hey, well, why didn't, you know, get feedback from Chris and all that kind of stuff? 00;28;50;03 - 00;29;08;06 And so cool. Did you know, how did I do with that? And then real time I got to make sure, hey, what is my, my current state, my getting really excited talking about this stuff? Do I need to maybe slow my voice down a little bit? Right. So there's there's that component to it. So finding that space, I think, is really crucial. 00;29;08;06 - 00;29;28;14 That's one thing that we straw like that. We we see that high performers struggle with is everybody wants to do more, give me more stuff to do. And we love to focus on being. And so when we're tired, that's where, you know, again, I'll come back to the concept of stillness or meditation or mindfulness, whatever you want to label it. 00;29;29;18 - 00;29;54;29 Some we work with a lot of SEO is a lot of athletes, a lot of special operators. Just give me more to do. I give me the perfect exercise, give me the perfect meal plan, give me the perfect strategy. But when you just say, cool, here's what I like you to do. I would like you to sit alone with no distractions in your eyes closed for 5 minutes and people almost like recoil from that. 00;29;55;16 - 00;30;20;14 But what we're doing is as we're getting better at understanding what's going on internally, and be depending on what your protocol is for your meditation, you're learning to bring your info, your focus and attention to where you want it to be. And it just I know it sounds maybe, I don't know, base level, but think of just truly how powerful that can be throughout your life. 00;30;20;14 - 00;30;41;16 Like when I want to focus and bring my attention to something that's important to me, man. Like, I want to be perfectly I got a two and a half year old, like the days and months are flying by. Do you know he's talking? And I just I still remember and he was just, you know, a little tiny nugget and like, I don't want to I don't want to be distracted from that. 00;30;41;16 - 00;30;57;14 And it's, you know, there's everything is is designed to distract us from it, thinking about what happened at work, our phones, you know, everything going on. What do I have to do tomorrow? But, man, that is what's really important to me right now. And I'm going to do my best to make sure that I can focus that. And so you have to practice that. 00;30;57;22 - 00;31;16;28 You have to practice not getting distracted and so, you know, that's that's for me what's most important. But for others, it could be, hey, I really want to dial an interview. I want I've got to get up for again, our special operator community like I've got to be perfectly dialed and focus for this mission because it is literally life or death. 00;31;16;28 - 00;31;32;26 Right? So like imagine being able to to bring your focus and attention where you wanted to be. So I'm from a kind of awareness standpoint. I think that's that's a great place. Do you have to kind of the book ends of the day for the proactive and retroactive of those are great places to start there a little easier, right? 00;31;32;26 - 00;31;54;05 You're a little further removed from, you know, the real time kind of chaos of of life. And then, you know, the meditative component or the stillness practice, there's a bunch of different ways you can do that, but just sit alone and with with nothing, no distractions for a minute, for 2 minutes, for 5 minutes. And and that can be really, really powerful. 00;31;54;05 - 00;32;24;16 So that's from a reflective or awareness component and then from a regular literary component, especially in an in the midst of kind of needing to get myself up or bring myself down. We love starting with breathwork, and it's really the simple strategy is the longer your exhale is especially and compared to your inhale, the more signals it's going to send to your brain that you can be in this rest and digest state. 00;32;24;20 - 00;32;54;26 So if I have a nice like an elongated exhale there, that's going to start sending signals that, hey, anxiety isn't really what I need here. I don't need my brain and my thoughts to be going a million miles an hour. I just can be calm. And then it's quite the opposite. Like forceful, short exhales you think of like things like athletes or like I always think of like a bobsled or like they slap their legs and then go, right. 00;32;54;26 - 00;33;17;01 They're actually up regulating so we have, you know, a ton of different protocols that can go as long as 25 minutes. They can almost put you in a bit of a euphoric state. When you get there. Yeah, but just like short, you know, power breathing, that kind of stuff. Like is, is kind of the, the simplest way to break that down and utilize your breath. 00;33;17;01 - 00;34;03;09 So most people, I would say throughout the day, breathe too quickly and put themselves into more of this kind of fight or flight stress response chronically which does not serve us. And so most people, we could benefit from slowing our breathing down just in general. And for those that are like colony loss me and meditation but maybe, you know, I want to do something to help myself, breathwork and even just rhythmically breathing without having a crazy protocol, but just focusing a little bit more on that exhale, rhythmically breathing for 5 minutes a day has actually been shown to have the same chronic benefits as far as like morbidity, blood pressure, heart disease, all those things like in 00;34;03;09 - 00;34;24;05 a positive manner in the same way that like meditation can. So like if you're like, I don't really want to meditate, but hey, maybe I'll try that. You're just focusing on my breathing and bringing attention there that can be really beneficial. So you don't you don't need to meditate to calm yourself down a little bit. But there are certainly other benefits of meditative practices. 00;34;24;10 - 00;34;28;02 So yeah, it's so that there's a bunch there. 00;34;28;14 - 00;34;28;23 Yeah. 00;34;29;09 - 00;34;37;07 But so I wrote down some things as you were going through that stuff and so that the kind of the that stuff, I don't mean to undermine what you did. 00;34;37;08 - 00;34;41;12 Oh no, it's totally fine. My wife feels the same way. So yeah, that's about what I do. 00;34;41;20 - 00;35;05;03 It's, it's you know, the, the do more and doing right. And then it's the, it's the, the, maybe it's not what I believe so much is. It is what it could be but I'll say I believe it to be this way as it's conditioned. We've been led to believe that we have to in order to influence or persuade others that were effective. 00;35;05;19 - 00;35;28;14 I'm, if I'm doing more than they'll look at me as I'm being bringing some value. Right. And so I think there's this value component is started in this kind of play games, at least in my life stage, to realize what the value is that is actually giving me the belief that if I do more or if I do X, then I'm going to get the things that I'm expecting. 00;35;28;14 - 00;35;57;29 So the expectations that come from it. And so when it comes now to the the to the flow of thought to believe, when you say, oh, you want to do that, let's start with 5 minutes of breath work immediately. Is it is it do you find that it's because you're telling them something that's so far off when they thought they were going to hear from you as far as what the steps would be on how to get to that high performing out element of breathwork? 00;35;57;29 - 00;36;13;05 What are you talking about? So it's the resistance of what I've what I've been conditioned to believe or understand as far as what is necessary to become a high performer. Never thought about breathwork. Is it more of a resistance to what they've been conditioned to understand or is it something else? 00;36;13;29 - 00;36;34;19 Yeah, you know, that's a good question. It's certainly a little bit different for each for each of us like. Well, again, that goes back to drivers, right? You know what is what is driving the need for this accomplishment, this need to do more? A lot of it is. And this is where we talk with a lot of our clients about a lot of it is not necessarily time management either. 00;36;34;19 - 00;36;56;29 It's about attention and focus management and what you want to do. And so people just want they they want to just add more and really that the limiting factor to their their long term, especially their long term performance, not just performance in general, but like we very much about sustainable performance, right? Like we want you to have a long career in the NFL, in the MLB. 00;36;57;04 - 00;37;12;10 We want you to come home from all the missions. We want you to be able to you know, continue to achieve what you want to in the workplace, where whoever we're working with, it's all about sustainable performance. And yeah, in the short term, doing more can give you more. You get you get more ROI, right? It's a media. 00;37;12;10 - 00;37;34;18 It's also like the same thing of like, oh, why people more people will exercise till the cows come home and CrossFit are the day away and all that kind of stuff. But it's like really the limiting performance to what you want out of your fitness right now is just nutrition. And that requires restraint and that concept of restraint is, I think, where people really, really struggle. 00;37;34;18 - 00;37;58;20 And so, you know, it could be they've been brought up with our culturally or from family, from childhood. A lot of the stuff that we work with is, is, is your stems from that. But, you know, for whatever reason, it's like I've got to hustle culture, right? That's also like media. It's like hustle culture, hustle culture. And and so it's slowly starting to kind of shift back a little bit. 00;37;58;27 - 00;38;31;27 So we're fighting against those expectations. But I think it's that element of restraint that people are really challenged with. It takes it sounds weird, but it takes more willpower for a lot of folks, especially people who are achievement oriented. Like you don't get anything back right away from sitting along with your thoughts for 5 minutes, just like you don't really get anything back from eating one vegetable bowl like you had a bunch of vegetables over time and suddenly, wow, there's a lot of these wonderful benefits, body composition, blood pressure, you name it. 00;38;31;27 - 00;39;02;04 Right. So, yeah, it's it's this we deal with that concept of restraint and helping people to understand the value that like doing less now over the long term is going to pay dividends because you're not going to be burnt out and tired all the time. From Go, go, go. And because you're going to be more present in the time that you do go and do things, you are more efficient at it because hey, you're suddenly more understanding of how you operate internally. 00;39;02;09 - 00;39;06;03 And so you can navigate a lot more different scenarios of that makes sense. 00;39;06;11 - 00;39;45;08 It does 100%. I'm recalling what and I probably everybody that we talked to, whether it was John or Jan or Anthony I'm Stefan and now you it's implying we'll just call it as a break taking a nap. I mean, been talking to John so you're saying is taking a ten minute nap is going to be beneficial because you're going to reset and the optimization of time is instead of staying awake for 24 hours because you believe it's going to give you an opportunity spend more time doing more but you're going to be slower at it less efficient and probably risk injury in some capacity whereas if you took you know in this case context the ten minute 00;39;45;08 - 00;40;06;27 break or nap, you can refocus your body can kind of reset, recalibrate. This is kind of the same thing it sounds like is what you're doing is the same level of decision making that goes into deciding to do something. The restraint component is to say the temptation to feel like you got to do more is the same thing. 00;40;06;27 - 00;40;10;27 Is the temptation is to not take a break. Would you say. 00;40;11;13 - 00;40;14;08 On vacation, spot on, spot on. 00;40;14;23 - 00;40;35;21 The view out there, they're saying that your work life balance is an element of understanding this and that it's tough for whatever it starts with you. It sounds like this is what directing is internalizing, which is the friction part reflection. It's your self. If you understand how you can self-regulate you're saying the biology, I guess, is probably the best way to say it. 00;40;35;21 - 00;40;46;21 Through these practices, these techniques, you're going to see the benefit that can be comparable to allow you to make decisions differently to know what sustainable even means, because you'll feel it over time. 00;40;47;18 - 00;41;08;08 Yeah. And this this is where for me, it's been really rewarding to dove into a lot of the stuff and putting it into practice for myself because this isn't just for sports, you know, you see the application there, right, of understanding your own abilities and, and having that ability to regulate and calm yourself down in stressful situations, you know, fourth quarter scenarios, that kind of thing. 00;41;08;08 - 00;41;29;15 Right? You're going to have an edge over your your competitor right? In the workplace, you know, the ability to kind of have that that ability to stay calm in stressful situations, to be more creative when it's, you know, when the necessity arises to be able to problem solve because you've created that space for yourself to be able to do that. 00;41;30;09 - 00;41;48;24 It's going to be critical and certainly just to be a better partner. Right? Oh, I I'm in an argument with my partner. Right. It's it's it's you know, I think what a lot of folks will say is you're never going to find that. You're not going to argue with just the ability to to come to a common understanding and commitment. 00;41;49;07 - 00;42;10;00 It's not snapping and saying something that you regret later. Right. Because you said, oh, I'm I recognize this internal state. I understand what I need. I can call myself down and I can then respond, not react. And so, you know, it's it's the ability to bring that to whatever scenario. And yeah, it's it's less about going and finding. 00;42;10;06 - 00;42;26;08 I mean, yes, they're breathing protocols. But you said like just breathing rhythmically is going to give you a benefit, right? You don't need to even have a perfect protocol for you. And just creating a space for yourself is is going to be really just so powerful. So. 00;42;26;20 - 00;42;37;06 Yeah. Yep. Okay. Well, we scratched the surface, clearly, but anything else to touch on before we close? 00;42;37;24 - 00;43;16;05 Now, I just I hope that people take some space after listeners for themselves and just see what happens. Be curious about what's going on in inside, and that's just going to help you in so many ways. You know, it's, it's and can be really rewarding because you're just being more present with yourself, with those around you and then, you know, finding those strategies that work for you once you understand where you need find those strategies and you're going to find that, hey, I'm, I'm at my best a lot more frequently when I'm able to do that. 00;43;16;05 - 00;43;23;19 So yeah, go ahead and just take some time and try doing nothing for a minute. See what happens though. 00;43;24;03 - 00;43;26;03 You're doing nothing is doing something. Yeah. 00;43;26;13 - 00;43;26;22 Yeah. 00;43;27;01 - 00;44;02;00 I've learned that when it comes to decision making, when we don't take a position on certain things and then when we sit and lay on the grass and look at the sky and you actually imagine how nice it is to do that and you forget so. Mm. So thanks for that call and thanks for your time. I will, I will say this and take an opportunity to challenge anybody listening then, you know, 30 days try for 30 days, you know, a minute, 5 minutes a day for 30 days journal it just, you know, jot down how you felt before you did it and then when you made the decision maybe jot down why you made the decision 00;44;02;00 - 00;44;24;18 to do it. Try it 5 minutes breathwork. If you're not completely sure what that means, you know, find out from EXO's, go on site, find out what's available, maybe Google some things do do whatever it takes unless you have a resource immediately available where you can ask that person Hey, how do I do this? Find out, do for 30 days and let us know what you get back, you know? 00;44;24;19 - 00;44;30;19 So Colin, if you're up for it, if, if anybody wants to reach out and connect with you, what's the best way? 00;44;31;18 - 00;44;52;08 Yeah, I'm not much of a social media warrior, so probably I'll throw my email out there. See Young at Axios dot com and I always love talking shop. I always love talking about how we can help you. And if you want to understand a little bit more about how to reflect and bring awareness and regulation, your space man all talk your ear. 00;44;52;15 - 00;44;52;25 So. 00;44;54;10 - 00;44;56;28 Got it. Appreciate your call and thanks for everything you're doing. 00;44;57;14 - 00;44;58;00 Yeah. Thanks, Chris. 00;44;58;17 - 00;45;00;08 All right, everybody, keep moving forward.…

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Emotional Intelligence: Self Awareness 38:48

1 year38:48

38:48

In this episode we’re talking emotional intelligence. Building up from previous episodes, we’re connecting a flow of developing our skills to be better contributors to common goals, team dynamics, and personal growth. EQ includes important abilities like recognizing what you observe, how you react, and how others perceive you. Want to improve? Are you interested in becoming a greater asset to those around you? Take a listen and we’ll support you in that effort! We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;29 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the main podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle. 00;00;29;08 - 00;00;50;26 In this episode, we're talking emotional intelligence building up from previous episodes. We're connecting a flow of developing our skills to be better contributors to common goals, team dynamics and personal growth. IQ includes important abilities like recognize what you observe, how you react, and how others perceive you want to improve. Are you interested in becoming a greater asset to those around you? 00;00;51;09 - 00;01;05;27 Take a listen and we'll support you in that effort. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;06;00 - 00;01;15;19 David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn Good morning, David Cross. How are you? 00;01;16;03 - 00;01;23;17 You know, Chris, today I'm a little emotional, right? What's going on in the world, but we're going to take it to a new direction here, I think, with our topic today. 00;01;23;29 - 00;01;49;09 Got it. Ten today. We're talking about emotional intelligence, why it matters. Some of the key components to consider when you're thinking about how effective are you, what are you doing to prepare yourself to go out and influence others in a way that they can see what you're asking for, they can understand it. And then more importantly, something happens as a result of that. 00;01;49;09 - 00;01;50;05 There's action taken. 00;01;51;21 - 00;02;13;05 You know, Chris, you know, I think about this a little bit is, you know, IQ, right? Or the emotional quotient or emotional intelligence II. You know, it's one of those things that is I wish could be on every resume. You're looking at people, right? But like, how do you measure it? Right. How you quantify it, right? How do you you know, does someone have you know, emotional intelligence or IQ? 00;02;14;05 - 00;02;34;21 I think one of the challenges at the same time, if you think about our history and your experience, of hiring people, what's sometimes the one number one failure that you sometimes see when you hire someone, they look great, but then they have no IQ, right? It's a total disaster. So I think is maybe something we should talk about today. 00;02;35;16 - 00;02;58;15 I think you're right. And in a lot of those components, you know, that I mean, we can break it down. There's a lot of good references. I mean, let's let's out of the gate, let's talk about one of the main ones that everybody's already familiar with, Daniel Goleman, emotional intelligence There are other resources that are self-help, like books coming from a valid, credible resource like organizational psychologists and whatnot. 00;02;58;15 - 00;03;25;05 I mean, the list is deep and you can get into the details of it from philosophical approach to the psychological facts and science and experience you know, all of those things contributing. You know, you talked about some things that were specific examples that contribute to one's ability to know how to navigate the area to where you can understand what it takes to be effective. 00;03;25;13 - 00;03;50;28 Emotional intelligence includes probably starts with, I guess, safe to say, and we can talk about it self. Right. It's it's it's it's your perspective and others perspective is basically the breakdown of the views of who's considering judging, classifying, categorizing, assessing or what have you on whether or not you're doing the things that influence others in a way where there's an honest, true understanding of what's going on now. 00;03;50;28 - 00;04;02;27 True in the sense of perception. We talked about this before. Not everything is real. You know, it's just the way that we see it. And so we just have to do the best to try to acknowledge what it is, in fact, that we're seeing or hearing. 00;04;03;11 - 00;04;25;09 Well, I think that almost brings to my brings to mind a little bit, you know, perception right? It's like communication. Right. Is saying that like sometimes how do you perceive yourself, right. And out of others perceive you. Right. And it's like it's just like communication sometimes is your emotional intelligence. Is that well, are you reading people right in how they are reading you? 00;04;25;09 - 00;04;46;05 Right. And I think it's one of the most important things is your feedback, communication, you know, reaching out to mentors is that do you really have good IQ? Well, how do you know? Have you asked anyone have you talked to your mentor? Have you gotten for asked for feedback? And I think sometimes there could be a major delta in yourself. 00;04;47;12 - 00;05;13;18 Yeah, you're right. That because this I mean, this is a series of things that we've landed on almost accidentally. But then we realized you and I realize that there's a sequence of conversation topics that will have occurred in the previous episodes leading up to this one. Right. Relationships and trust, how you define everything that you just said comes from a place of acknowledging and accepting, right? 00;05;13;19 - 00;05;35;20 You've acknowledge that somebody either you trust yourself or you trust somebody else. You've acknowledged something that has allowed you to decide where you've chosen to accept what it is that is being said. Or given right. So I'm accepting that my self-talk has convinced me because it makes sense to me, which we can absolutely unpack. It makes sense to me. 00;05;35;20 - 00;06;03;16 And so I accept it. This is how I view this. And then what you mentioned is the external influence of somebody else coming to you and saying, Hey, you have really good emotional intelligence, you have a really good ability to understand the audience, the situation, the conversation that's occurring how did they come to be able to assess that to you as from their perception based off of the other things that are almost aligned to what you're doing for yourself? 00;06;03;16 - 00;06;35;15 Right. Because you like it and you're comfortable. You might now find you lean towards that because it is comfort. So you go with that. They might have a personal motive or a preference as to how they have come to that conclusion on where you fit within their assessment based off of their rationalization. So that's kind of the, the catch 22 is you have to understand yourself well enough to trust by acknowledging and accepting the opinion of yourself and others that either agree or don't agree, but you have to get to that part Absolutely. 00;06;36;05 - 00;07;01;06 You know, it's amazing that how two different people could say exactly the same thing in a different in different ways. And the results and the impact and the emotional and emotional impact is completely different. We can go back to our military days, right? We've all seen commanding officers that they give an order and they're so gruff and you feel like you're dirty or worthless, whatever. 00;07;01;25 - 00;07;29;07 And you also have another commanding officer that you can say the way they express it. Yep. Here's an order. It's tough work. But you it feels like they care about you. It feels that they understand the pain you're going to feel from that order and you accept it completely differently. And that's what leadership is all about, is understanding the state of who you're talking to, how you communicate and really evaluating what is the person's emotions, how will it affect their emotions. 00;07;29;20 - 00;07;40;26 And it's also so important that context and it's not just the military, it's the whole world. And there's amazing differences in leadership and impact. Just based just on that. 00;07;41;13 - 00;08;05;07 Yeah, you you unloaded on that one. So there's a couple of things here. So the expectations and expectation settings, it's it's a realization of a standard, right? Or a goal or classification. Somewhere along the line, you're determining that somebody has to be a certain way to be able to do this. Whatever this is, do this job, do this role, do this project. 00;08;05;19 - 00;08;25;24 We have to determine what skill sets are compatible with what the objectives are based off of whatever it is. And I'm using these words because personally we're not walking down the street saying these things, Hey, does this person align to my objective? When you're walking past somebody walking a dog now, you have a preference. That preference has evolved from something that you talked about, where empathy plays a big part in this. 00;08;25;24 - 00;08;49;16 Right? Being able to understand and relate to somebody through empathy is to make them feel as if you care, right? And that's I can kind of the main thing is, you know, emotional intelligence can come down to, you know, several components. But one of the key ones is how you make others feel is a big influence on whether or not you're going to continue to have that relationship in the way that you want it to be or expected to be or need it to be. 00;08;49;27 - 00;09;27;03 You also talked about something for the context. You mentioned context, and that I think comes through the experience, those with more experience. It is safe to assume that they have a higher level of emotional intelligence, and it's an assumption because of the experience. We go back to the first thing in expectation, I would say, and you and I have talked about it before in context, if you and I are going into a situation where there's we're surrounded by executives, there's an assumption that because of your experience, you probably have a better understanding of what the expectations would be in that setting. 00;09;27;18 - 00;09;48;22 Right before we even started recording, we talked about junior enlisted versus senior enlisted, and I'm paraphrasing, the expectations are different, the understanding of different because the level of the role is probably assuming that they don't have yet the experience to put things in context. Therefore, they can't have the same level of IQ because of the fact that they just don't know yet. 00;09;48;28 - 00;09;50;01 They haven't gone through it yet. 00;09;50;13 - 00;10;07;28 Yeah. Spin on Chris. You know, I think we have to keep reminding of ready to go back and listen to the podcast about communication. So when you bring up about context is sometimes ah, experience, I think it means a really good scenario is that sometimes you can walk into a scenario or a situation you don't have the experience. 00;10;08;09 - 00;10;33;06 So then well how do you act? Well, this comes back in communication, ask questions because if you don't have experience and you don't have a context, you can start asking questions that can help you to understand the landscape, to understand what's going on, so that you can have the right perspective in context, in emotional intelligence to act, respond you know, engage the right way versus blindly guessing. 00;10;33;06 - 00;10;40;06 Right. You know, your favorite Seinfeld episode, never assume. Right anything, right? Because you're going to get burnt. 00;10;41;01 - 00;11;06;26 Right. Yeah. As to curiosity, I think as time will go on, you become more intimate with instinct or that gut, that gut feel. Right. The instinctive approach is if something just doesn't feel right, you know the scenario, you're going down the street walking down the street, walk into a conversation. It just feels weird. There's something off that I think also and I'm sure I read it somewhere. 00;11;06;26 - 00;11;33;16 So it's just me saying I know it's I think I've it's been stated before where that is associated. And part of this is, you know, there's these certain instincts that one has that develops over time. With the experience that evolves into what we can consider at a high level to be part of emotional intelligence. You have awareness, self-awareness, situational awareness, so like you said, walking into a conversation or something and you're curious if that is your priority is to understand. 00;11;33;16 - 00;11;57;06 Probably humility plays a big part in that you're humble enough to be curious regardless of how you feel, whether or not you're going to get looked at for asking the dumb question, things like that, where there really isn't one. If you don't know, setting matters time in a place, don't forget that. But that's part of the emotion intelligence if you're curious and and that's how you go into a situation because you're sincerely trying to accomplish something collectively. 00;11;57;06 - 00;12;22;27 We collectively, meaning the same people in the room or the people in the room, are trying to achieve the same thing. Similar things. Sincerity will drive you towards not wanting to ask questions, to learn to contribute, knowing when to ask questions, how to quite the right question to ask. We've talked about these things also. I think it's just an understanding of being able to develop that over time, gives you gives you the opportunity to know you're on the right path. 00;12;23;20 - 00;12;44;00 You know, Chris, the ah, you know, it's kind of thinking on this overall topic and maybe it could be, you know, on a landmine that someone could step into is like is the world global? Now we work for a global company you know, there are people from many different different countries and backgrounds and things like that. Different languages, right? 00;12;44;08 - 00;13;06;13 Is English the native language for everyone in the world? No. Right. And do we all have the same culture and background and gestures? No. Right. And I think this is very, very important sometimes when we work in diverse teams, right. We're not just about out of geographic of ethnicity and backgrounds. Other things is we have to be very aware of that. 00;13;06;18 - 00;13;33;04 Is that how someone's language could it we we could read it incorrectly or treat it incorrectly or improperly. And I think so very different. I won't use any of the typical stereotypical biased examples here, but is that some people could read and perceive right are a statement very differently based on language alone. And I think that's very, very important to be aware of in this overall topic. 00;13;33;24 - 00;14;08;22 100% a great great poll. It's global, right? And if we go into outdated characteristics or an understanding of where we play a part in a global role and we haven't yet been exposed to what that actually means and that that's I'm not I'm not going to begin to try to unpack that one. It's hard because there's a lot of things that you have to do and we talked about this in different ways over the last many episodes is effort the amount of effort is dependent upon your interest. 00;14;09;02 - 00;14;42;20 If you prioritize things, then the effort doesn't necessarily equate to hard or easy. You just understand it's necessary in order to achieve what you want to achieve. That's part of the issue is how much effort is it going to take to understand all of the things that are going to contribute to the success of myself and others. That in itself is probably a solid approach to understand how you can without even trying become better at acknowledging your emotional intelligence, understanding it well enough to say, here are the requirements and here's what I need to do, and then you map it out. 00;14;43;10 - 00;14;55;15 Absolutely. So we're coming back to, you know, hiring people. You know, Chris, you know, you're involved with recruiting and hiring people, you know, which is better high IQ or high IQ. 00;14;57;19 - 00;14;59;28 Yeah, I figured you were going to give me up on that one. 00;15;01;12 - 00;15;11;24 We have to have a fun podcast, right? Chris, do you want us to be boring and everyone? That's what I is it is supposed to be. I was proud to have a podcast here. People listen to Fall Asleep. Not every night, you know? 00;15;12;23 - 00;15;39;11 Yep. So I'm going to give the classic answer that I found myself acknowledging in most intelligence. And I'm saying, well, it's appropriate. It depends. Right. I would like to say that because the way that I look at it is this is the actions where there is nothing that we're doing right now that is our own right. And what I mean by that is we're reacting to somebody else's action. 00;15;40;06 - 00;16;17;16 You don't know if it's this conversation or something. A month ago. A year ago. It doesn't matter. We're reacting. I feel in that way. So it goes back to how you how you prepare in hiring, when you're looking for somebody to fill a role how you define the role requirements by restricting the explanation into a job description. Well, if you're not an excellent writer or translator of thought into words and writing it effectively to where people can now read that without emotion, they just see it for what it is and everybody walks away with the same understanding of what the requirements are. 00;16;18;13 - 00;16;33;07 You should understand that that's part of the problem if you're going to answer that question, because in that you still have to define what it is that you're looking for. And then you have to go through the verbal approach. And so now you have let's say you and I say I'm interviewing with you. I have to do everything that we just talked about. 00;16;33;07 - 00;16;49;12 I have to make assumptions on who I'm speaking with. To demonstrate something that's going to fit into your perception of what you're looking for. I don't know what that is. I just know that I read a job description. There's been somebody that talked to me about the role and somewhat of the culture that I'm the role sits in. 00;16;49;23 - 00;17;01;10 And now I have to make assessments on how do I make sure that I'm being my organic self to you. Without eliminating me from a possibility of taking the job because it's a it's a delicate dance. 00;17;02;00 - 00;17;16;28 You know, Chris, I think that's a great example, you know, and I think as both for hiring managers as well as candidates. Right. Is is hiring manager. You really want you should lay out saying, hey, this is the state of the organization. Right? It could be a very diverse organization. Or it could actually be maybe not so. Right. 00;17;16;28 - 00;17;41;22 And really so that is very clear what the expectations are. What are the needs? Right. So people say, well, I fit into that or not. Right. Likewise, I think as a candidate, you should always look and understand, right? You know, where the organization is. And so that you say, will you be a good match for that or are you going to step into something that it's not going to be where you are from an ego perspective, maybe this will not be a good match or maybe could be dangerous. 00;17;41;27 - 00;17;44;25 And I think we should be open and honest and both directions on this. 00;17;46;14 - 00;18;12;02 And in that, you defined what you can consider to be in a higher ratios of animal, emotional, intelligent individual. Right. You're recognizing these variables based off of your experience. Now, you've you've been in a career for, you know, decades to where you can understand these things. You've accumulated a lot of this information to where it allows you to leverage that and then put it to good use. 00;18;12;05 - 00;18;33;19 Maybe this is the best way to say it. And that's a fair that's a fair way to do it. Unfortunately, that's not across the board from everywhere that we've experienced. I'm sure all of us can name at least one scenario where it wasn't like that. It wasn't transparent. It wasn't a place to where you feel you can be brutally honest with each other and know that it's the position that you're discussing through dialog to get to the end state of knowing each other better. 00;18;34;23 - 00;19;07;11 I think I think you're right. I think in that case, I'll tell you this, if I had to pick one because you asked the question, I would say IQ to me is more important than IQ. And I'm not completely aware of the depths of what both of those mean independently. Of each other. I can just say from my understanding, I would choose IQ over IQ just for the basic nature of being able to relate higher probability of relating to others more often because it's all about people connecting with people. 00;19;07;11 - 00;19;10;28 And you just gave a scenario where your focus was connecting. 00;19;11;19 - 00;19;34;23 You know, I think that I think some jobs will be different, but certainly I think we're we're, you know, maybe used to or very familiar for the past in a long time here, I could say that we're working in teams and organizations in so that having low IQ is dangerous territory. Right. And people that could be really caustic and dangerous and create a bad environment. 00;19;35;03 - 00;19;53;06 But we'll be honest, right? We're not we're not our audience here. The veteran community is not just working in high tech not just working large companies and things like that. Yes. Sometimes there will be some differences so someone can be an individual right and not have to deal with others. Maybe that's okay. I'm not saying have a no IQ is a good thing anybody. 00;19;53;06 - 00;20;11;22 But I think it's like you really need to again, the context of the position and expectations. But certainly I think of that in I'd say almost all companies that having low IQ as a people manager is almost a guaranteed the plane is going to crash yeah. 00;20;11;22 - 00;20;35;24 It's there's probably a higher point of failure in that, you know, because it does I mean, people move things I mean, I'm declaring it as if it's my we know this. We don't we can't do it alone. You know, we need people around us. There's a supporting cast of crew in everything that we're doing, whether you acknowledge it or recognize it's matters less. 00;20;35;24 - 00;21;00;24 But everybody's giving us support in some capacity like we talked about. It's indirect. It could be appearing the independent of each other, but it's not everything that we accumulate is is stored information and recalled at some point, I believe so you know I think the kind of the the summary at this point is, you know, it is maybe the question for you. 00;21;01;12 - 00;21;10;07 We skimmed over it. We talked about it. But you asked me a question. I asked you a question. Should I care more about what others think or should I care more about what I think? 00;21;11;13 - 00;21;19;02 Wow. At first I was I said, oh, this is an easy answer. Then you really stop me there for a second. Right? 00;21;22;09 - 00;21;49;00 You know, why am I hesitating on this one? Certainly at first I was going to say it is it's what everyone else thinks of course. Right. But I think maybe that's you're trying to be clever here, Chris, and give me the trick question. But like what everyone thinks may not be what I really think I am. Right. And that's the maybe that's a problem in itself, right, is that I think I'm a caring, loving person. 00;21;49;01 - 00;22;05;02 But everyone thinks I'm an evil tyrant or an micromanager. Right. And I think the real answer is you have to look at both and saying, do they match? If they don't match, then you say there's a problem that you need to explore and figure out. 00;22;07;21 - 00;22;32;16 Fair, very neutral answer, but I'll take it because it's not wrong. You're right. Situational. You know, if if we if we subscribe to the theory that working together in teams, direct or indirect you know, you have to influence others. And so you have to consider what they're feeling and what they're thinking about, whether or not you're in the capacity that is necessary for everybody. 00;22;32;16 - 00;22;49;04 To feel confident in moving forward. So strength finders, I'll introduce this real quick. We've talked about it before, a scientific approach. If you can go Google it, you know, look it up. I'm sure many are familiar. If not, though, check it out. It's a fun thing to be able to assess where you're in. There's plenty of these tools out there. 00;22;49;04 - 00;23;13;11 But, you know, the defines there's four things that a leader, a follower wants from a leader, trust, compassion, stability and hope. Well, if what you had said is any indication of how any of those four can be impacted, if I don't have that in the leader, I don't have trust I don't have or the leader doesn't have the trust doesn't have the compassion, which we talked about. 00;23;13;11 - 00;23;32;26 You kind of mentioned earlier about how you make me feel. And as a follower, leader doesn't provide the opportunity for me to trust that you have there's a stable environment and then give me hope. And for those of us have jokes, hope is not a course of action, but it does play a part in whether or not you can survive in certain scenarios. 00;23;33;16 - 00;23;55;23 If we don't have any of those for it could break. So I think you're right. It's just a matter of understanding you take into consideration whether people think what or what other people think. But there is a there is a factor that weighs into how you're because it still comes back to you on how you're receiving information, whether or not yourself talking you're true to yourself. 00;23;57;07 - 00;24;01;05 It still has to transmit what other people think and you still have to process it. 00;24;02;10 - 00;24;39;10 You know, the one thing that I still think about in this area is in the question you asked is, is there still an element on what you want your your IQ to be versus your perceived IQ? Right. You know, and and that's really important. I think sometimes that of what you think saying, hey, I'm just being caring and loving and compassionate and, you know, green on the you know, the chart signal that's not everyone sees you as red, blue right. 00;24;41;06 - 00;24;54;13 And isn't that not an important element that everyone should go through on a regular basis? Right. Is just like technical skills. Right. You should have my keeping up to up to speed with my technical skills, but I may keep you up to speed with my IQ. 00;24;55;07 - 00;25;35;17 Yeah, it's a tool I you're that's great talking about that. It abs it is absolute an absolute tool that's necessary to be successful. Now, you can call it different things, you know, don't even call it emotional intelligence. Call it anything else. Like, are you able to understand things that are occurring around you in a way that you can have the same or common language used not only with yourself but with others to be able to address it in a way that you can still take your position because your skill development also is now relative interpretation of the scenario situation, words, actions, observations, all those things. 00;25;35;17 - 00;26;00;12 Right. You have to understand it and know that it's evolving. Everything is development, right? Every every scenario, even if it's it feels repetitious, it's giving you an idea of like oh, that, that equates to a trend as we defined it. What's happening similar or the same as before. And it's common. It's a trend if you're recognizing things to be a trend and you're resisting that influence. 00;26;00;12 - 00;26;20;29 But things are now changing. Now we talk about how you're not being relevant because you're refusing to accept the ever changing environment which now is limiting your ability to contribute effectively. Therefore, what you're probably going to experience is getting pushed out of the circle of that action. Right. You now you're no longer going to be wanted on the team. 00;26;20;29 - 00;26;36;10 Now you're no longer to be valued member. Now you're not contributing in a way that's relevant to the expectations and the goals set forth because you're not accepting the evolution. Now, it's not to say that you have to what it has to what I think is it means that you have to be able to adapt to it and grow from it. 00;26;36;21 - 00;26;53;25 Or make a decision. You either refuse to accept it or you accept it, but acknowledging that for yourself is you're either in it or you're not, and you have to decide. But I think that's the evolution of what you just mentioned, is you still have to pay attention to those things and then decide because you don't want to lose yourself. 00;26;54;14 - 00;27;03;13 That's what we talk about. Bring in your organic self to to the workplace or to the scenario, to the family, to whatever you have. You have to be able to adapt. 00;27;04;05 - 00;27;19;24 So, Chris, I guess this then leads to the one big question I think for the whole podcast here. And you know, I know you're an avid book reader and you know, you read way more than I do. But the real question is how can you improve your emotional intelligence or IQ? What's what do you recommend? 00;27;21;11 - 00;27;30;25 Hmm. Simple terms. Pay attention. That's it. And Dad jokes, I'll give you a dollar to pay attention. How's that for. 00;27;30;27 - 00;27;36;28 You saying I give bad jokes here, Chris? No, no, not at all. Great. I got a guy got a good read on that one. Okay. 00;27;38;06 - 00;27;54;25 Yep. It's paying attention. I mean, you and I, I mean, we I walk away from each conversation. It simply is. You know, I'm not saying that we're going into this conversation to deliver something, and that's it. That's all. It's value. No, the value is that you and I are going to talk and sincerely exchange information in a way where I walk. 00;27;55;01 - 00;28;22;25 I walk away knowing something, learning something, you know, so paying attention to that. Every opportunity that you're presented with by being present, right? If you're paying attention than your present, it's an assumption that will help you figure out how you need to adopt a different approach in order to address the things that you feel are challenging because now you're now you're going down the path of discovery. 00;28;22;26 - 00;28;36;12 When you talked about it early, you know, asking not asking questions doesn't mean necessarily to ask questions than others as much as it also means ask questions to yourself. Are you recognizing what's happening and are you talking it through to be able to know what needs to happen next? 00;28;36;27 - 00;28;50;00 Yeah. So, Chris, you know, what, Brooke, I know you think you've mentioned one earlier. What book would you recommend to people? Right, Alex? I know people love books. And sometimes resources are when you recommend to people that you've read yourself. 00;28;50;28 - 00;29;12;02 Yeah, it's my my default so early, early in what I feel is probably the best way to describe it. My transformation right is when I've hit a life stage in a career stage, too, where I feel like I felt like I needed to do something different, more what have you. I stumbled across a popular one, the emotional intelligence we talked about. 00;29;12;02 - 00;29;33;03 Daniel Goleman. I'm a huge fan of the way that not only the book explains things in the way that he's speaking to these dynamics in the book. It's also, to me, the catalyst of other other areas of skillset development that you need to focus on, right? Is introducing things. And if I were to just do it, I'm going to do this right now. 00;29;33;03 - 00;29;50;29 I'm just going to flip through the book and land on a page. And then it's the chapter is managing with Hart. So, you know, we, we just and that was random. David saw me do it, not that I need to prove to anybody out there listening, but I've randomly flipped landed on that managing with heart talk about and. 00;29;51;01 - 00;29;58;06 Everybody I saw audio I saw on. So we don't have to get into the debate whether this is a fake podcast or not. A fake. 00;29;58;10 - 00;30;10;05 Yeah, this isn't real. This is actually it's not an actual conversation's all I do. You get it. The emotional intelligence, artificial intelligence. Do you see that? That's funny. All right. Coming back in the. 00;30;10;05 - 00;30;10;25 Movie, Chris. 00;30;11;18 - 00;30;37;00 Let's keep it moving. All right. With heart sincerity. You ever you ever. And I think we've talked about the scenario before. If you ever walk into a situation, I don't care if it's a perceived stereotypical way, you know, going to use car dealer or something to that effect where somebody walks up, there's an intent, right? Somebody approaches you with a motive, you can feel it and the words that come next are scripted, not natural. 00;30;37;00 - 00;30;54;07 It just doesn't feel sincere. Right. Well, if you look at that in in its form, you can recognize that person has a job to do and they're trying to execute it based off of what has been deemed to be the appropriate process by the organization that that person's with. But you know, they're still trying to put food on the table. 00;30;54;21 - 00;31;15;20 So there's there's a sincerity in there that they're trying to manage the situation or the people with the sincerity, but having to go through some of these things that may appear to us to be crafted. Well, yeah, everything we do is almost like that. So if you can if you can develop your emotional intelligence in a way through in this case, a book that I'm suggesting I'm speaking of, it doesn't matter. 00;31;15;20 - 00;31;53;07 Pick one just to understand that everything is an introduction to something else. And so if you just follow the path of what that is, you can learn more not only about yourself, but how others are also engaging with you. And then now you can strive for perfecting your craft of human connection to where you can either mitigate that feeling by having it just calling it outright, saying for what it is, or play along you know, at the end of the day, we're all trying to achieve something, but we have to learn better on how we can connect with others to be able to achieve the same thing without having to think about whether or not it's 00;31;53;07 - 00;31;53;17 fake. 00;31;54;04 - 00;32;16;29 Yeah, well put Chris in a certainly I know that if this was a video I was watching right but they're not very good, right? Because it clearly when you see the videos, their beards are always crafted, things like that. And the hats always perfectly on. Right. So that not in this episode. So, you know, so unless they're fooling me, I don't know, they're pretty good. 00;32;18;22 - 00;32;41;18 But different topic on the book. One is that it's not about IQ, but I just kind of came across a recent book called Burn Out for Dummies. And I said, why is this important? How does this apply to said? Well, eliminate is, I think, is that when many people get burned out, their IQ II goes down enormously and it kind it becomes a fire, right? 00;32;41;27 - 00;33;02;25 Someone gets burned out or under stress and things like that. Then they start losing the kind of view of what's going on around them, how they treat people those type of things. And sometimes I think that I think of why this is a great book recommendation. Also, like to makers like people need to detect when they are burning out right because that affects their emotional intelligence and IQ enormously. 00;33;03;15 - 00;33;25;01 There you go. Detect. That's the word of the day. I'm going to I'm going to use it today. More than once. Yeah. You have to be able to understand it, to detect it. The you know, this is where it can become somewhat of a challenge because we can do it in rabbit hole. But, you know, I feel that we all have instinctive ideas. 00;33;25;01 - 00;33;47;28 They're shaped around a feeling right where it comes from. I can't explain and I know somebody can. And we can probably get 50 people in a room and 51 explanations, but you get this feeling. It comes from somewhere and then that that is, I think, the kind of the key catalyst for how you're going to be able to detect not only is it the opportunity, but be able to understand how you're affected by something. 00;33;48;15 - 00;34;21;29 We had we had brought neurologist on, on, on the show in its early stages before this podcast evolved. It was a different one, but talk about stress and his expertize in that area of Expertize was how to manage stress. And part of that talk included, you know, identifying the physiological effects and be able to recognize it early. Now, he was focused on certain part of the special operations community where your physiological response to stress was an important indicator whether or not you can be able to execute in your role. 00;34;22;07 - 00;34;40;15 Right. In I'm being ambiguous, but for those that know, they know the idea, though, is if you understand how your body is morphing or changing based off of how it's responding to a situation, then you have to be able to optimize that and control it and you learn how to do that and there's techniques to do that. So I think you're right. 00;34;41;19 - 00;35;05;12 You know, there isn't a level that you should consider. I think it's a fact that you should consider. You don't you don't have to get to a certain point to understand that detecting that early is absolutely critical to your success, because how we we dismiss it by things by saying like, oh, David's hangry, you know, his blood sugar this and it's affecting his attitude in his moonlight. 00;35;05;12 - 00;35;25;20 Stuff. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. But if somebody's saying it, that means it's already been presented. And now think about the effect some people can write it off as a joke, but now how are you going into a decision where you actually carry that in there? And are you making the right decision based off of the baseline that you should have for that type of decision? 00;35;27;03 - 00;35;43;16 Absolutely. You know, and I think it was like a military versus less formal involvement, like the the Navy's, you know, personal reliability program. We could think about aviation we could think about doctors. Is the under stress. Right? We want people to make the right decisions, right? Be very clinical, are focused. Right. And this is for all types of jobs. 00;35;43;16 - 00;36;03;15 And I think this is where emotional intelligence comes into play and very, very important. But how we can detect it, we can be aware of it and we can actually take actions. And then coming back to an element of I think, you know, I've talked about many times is that, you know, sometimes the workday can get very stressful and we can then say there's so much work, whatever it's like, that's the time you take a break. 00;36;03;20 - 00;36;15;23 You know, I go for a run, I go for a five K run, and I say I take that time at 30 minutes out. Right. And then de-stress. So then I can come back to work and make the right decisions because I remove that stress. 00;36;16;13 - 00;36;37;26 Yeah, that's. There you go. I'm going to throw it out there. Maybe, maybe we got a couple of things going on here is maybe. Maybe we bring that guest back on or bring bring somebody on or talk about stress and recognize and detect and respond. But the other part of what you just said is another element of me, because we did talk about it in some capacity. 00;36;38;07 - 00;37;04;24 I think we sprinkle it in in past episodes, but making the right decision is probably an element that we should consider talking about because then we can take all of these previous podcasts on nutrition and sleep and rest and body functions and climate work climate and all of the environmental contributors to how it affects our ability to deliver in the role that we're expected, delivering it's a good one. 00;37;05;18 - 00;37;26;07 Well, I think there's been a great episode, I think, and I think it's really excited that of of how we can continue to hear from our community, how we can kind of help everyone. And I want to call out that, hey, we're always looking for feedback, right? You know, certainly as this goes live, you know, ping us on Twitter or X or they call it now, find us on LinkedIn. 00;37;26;29 - 00;37;36;08 So my I'm on Twitter, our X, I'm on Mr. DB Cross, reach out to us. We'd love to know what you think. We'd love to know of what you'd like to hear. And we're here to help the community and that's how we grow. 00;37;37;08 - 00;38;00;18 That's it. That feedback next episode recommendations, anything we haven't gotten feedback lately, so maybe this will kick up some dust in and get us to consider what we can do more of or modify. But the it's a great up. So David, I think I think, you know, again, we started to to pull the layers back a little bit on some of the stuff. 00;38;00;18 - 00;38;14;24 And I think it can warrant maybe getting a little deeper in the future episode. So I think that's probably what we'll maybe tee up for the next season is to get into different layers because we're not so well. 00;38;14;24 - 00;38;34;18 I hope the this season that we finished the season will be, you know, good for not just us but also for the Seahawks this this year, you know, but it's kind of tough going every game. We kind of they just like every episode of their podcast here, it's like we're going to play one by one. But we're we're really going to kind of hit that end goal of reaching the Super Bowl. 00;38;34;18 - 00;38;39;12 So we want to be number one on the veteran podcast in the world. So let's keep trying for it. 00;38;39;27 - 00;38;43;05 We'll keep trying All righty. One keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

1
Asking the Right Questions: Bet on Yourself 34:55

1 year34:55

34:55

How do we know what questions to ask? What happens when you feel like asking but don’t? There is a lot going on in today’s world where we either have too much information or the feeling of not enough time…sometimes both! Where do we begin to understand how we fit into a situation and take away more than what we started with? Asking the right question includes a lot of understanding about yourself, your needs, needs of others, and many more considerations and it’s best to bet on yourself to know how to ask the right question, at the right time. This episode touches on several places to start. Take a listen and continue your discovery journey! We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcription: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;27;27 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;03 - 00;00;42;04 How do we know what questions to ask? What happens when you feel like asking but don't? There's a lot going on in today's world where we either have too much information or the feeling of not enough time. Sometimes both. Where do we begin to understand how we fit into a situation and take away more than what we start with? 00;00;42;08 - 00;01;00;09 Asking the right question includes a lot of understanding about yourself. Your needs, the needs of others, and many more considerations. And it's best to bet on yourself to know how to ask the right question at the right time. This episode touches on several places to start, so take a listen and continue your discovery journey. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. 00;01;00;10 - 00;01;19;24 So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn Good morning, David. How's it going? 00;01;20;17 - 00;01;32;22 Great, Chris. You know, I'm always looking forward kicking off Monday morning when we record these. You know, after the weekends, this is a top priority. That's why it's, you know, exciting to be part of this podcast community. 00;01;33;10 - 00;02;16;27 Yeah, no, you're right. It is You know, some some would say that Mondays is probably the most active depending on how you set up your time. But, you know, for everybody out there, we usually kick this off when David and I are speaking early in the week, early in the morning, fresh mindset, clear thinking, and hopefully it just paves the way for the solid 40 something minutes to talk about some things that are either introducing what we had talked about before, but not in too much depth or, you know, we've now just had something transition from something we had mentioned before and you know, we think it's a good idea to dove into some of that 00;02;16;27 - 00;02;49;22 So in the past, we've talked about visibility, you know, making yourself visible to others based off of your performance in your activities. Or others can see it good, bad or indifferent. It all culminates into building and establishing credibility in the things that you're responsible for. But extend your opportunity to network. Of course, now that more people can see what value you provide, you're able to you know, provide the details in a way that they can make it relevant to the needs for whatever they're trying to achieve. 00;02;50;18 - 00;03;20;23 And then we talked about communication, and there's levels to that right? There's the verbal, non-verbal, but being effective and how you communicate these things as as you know, when we're writing certain things down, you know, a misplaced word and context of a structured, you know, you can have a definite different meaning than what was intended. And so we want to make sure that we're able to articulate things in a way that's making it relevant to the perception or the potential perception that one might take on where you stand within their circle. 00;03;20;29 - 00;03;24;23 And so today, we'll talk about asking the right questions. 00;03;25;08 - 00;03;46;22 That's right, Chris. And certainly we're going to ask lots of questions here and kind of push the envelope, you know, and some people may asking, why in the world do we try to target, you know, 45 minutes or so for this podcast, right. Well, the answer is everybody, let's be open, honest, is that because we're all runners, right? And we want to listen to a podcast that takes about 45 minutes because that's how fast we all run our ten ks, isn't it? 00;03;47;21 - 00;03;48;00 Yes. 00;03;49;06 - 00;03;55;24 Yes, yes. I will say until you actually challenge me to where I have to demonstrate whether or not going to do it that way. 00;03;56;06 - 00;04;01;13 Yeah, we're going to roll, Chris, and so we're going to push this year. Let's see if we can do a 25 minute ten K sound good. 00;04;02;02 - 00;04;28;24 Let's do it. I might be limping along there for the last part of it, but that's all right. Don't quit. Yeah. So asking the right questions, I think you would. Situational awareness. You're kind of, you're, you're not kind of you're sitting around in, in a moment and observing and then you're trying to find probably the spots that you can pick to either add value or, you know, obtain more information through some method. 00;04;28;24 - 00;04;41;19 Right. And so asking questions, of course, is is one of the ways to do that. Of course, if you sit and listen more, you probably, you know, learn more than you anticipated. But, you know, finding the right time to ask a question, I think David is probably where we should start. Right? 00;04;42;01 - 00;05;02;02 I absolutely you know, and I think it's like everything that I think is we should always be thinking about like, you know, the book Atomic Habits, right? You actually want to build a habit of always asking questions, you know, is like every day, every hour, maybe not every day, every week. You know, with things like with your managers, your peers, your organization. 00;05;02;02 - 00;05;22;16 Right. You should be thinking about. All right. Have I ask any questions today? And it's not about, you know, to play a game. It's more of that. Hey, am I delivering the right results today? Right. Am I meeting expectations today? Is my focus on the right priorities today? Right. It sounds simple in a sound sometimes not necessary, but it's it's a great mindset. 00;05;22;16 - 00;05;24;20 And so I got to build that habit with everybody. 00;05;25;04 - 00;05;49;24 You know, and this wasn't planned. But you'd mentioned the book and what's funny is this last weekend, I had I had gone away for a couple of days off grid disconnected. No, no cell reception. So it was forced. But also a convenient way to not be tempted because you just even if you wanted to connect, you couldn't. There was a book who's in a cabin there was that book. 00;05;49;26 - 00;06;07;17 It was one of the three books in the house, in the cabin. That was one that was sitting on there. And I didn't pick it up, but my eyes gravitated towards it. And you just mentioned it. So let's let's kick this around a little bit, you know, because you mentioned about asking asking questions at certain times and, you know, the philosophical approach. 00;06;07;17 - 00;06;29;15 And am I doing enough for my doing the right things and things like that? Well, maybe we kick this thing off and say, well, how do you get to that part? Right. And I believe that if you're immersed into a situation where there's intensity, pressure, stress, maybe you're not thinking as clearly as you as you could or should unless you've conditioned yourself to where you introduced it. 00;06;29;15 - 00;06;47;07 And we've talked about it before. You've conditioned yourself to have the right mindset. Right, and you become resilient in that way to know that in in in sometimes high pressure situations, I'm able to think about what's necessary for for me to be valuable in that moment. 00;06;49;10 - 00;07;13;10 That weekend, this last weekend was an opportunity for me to be able to clear, clear the room, if you will, of congestion. Right. Or you know, just high volume or high amount of activity that had me, you know, probably not prioritizing things the right way or following a path that I could make sense of the right questions to be asking at this point, given the situation I'm in. 00;07;14;09 - 00;07;23;19 What are your thoughts on how do you get to the part of understanding whether or not you need to do something different related to questions? 00;07;24;20 - 00;07;49;08 Well, let's go back again to the atomic habits like I could I'll say something that, okay, if you have a family, right, I see a significant other. You know, sometimes you'd ask the question to your significant other, like, am I doing the right things for our our marriage right now? Yes. Your kids and my I am I being a good dad or mom, you know, to the two to you right now, you guys asked your mentors or friends. 00;07;49;08 - 00;08;05;17 It's like, you know, how am I doing right now? What's your perception in sounds like, why in the world would you ask these questions? But if you take a step back right now, you know, I love to hear what your feedback process is like. Would you not want to know exactly what they're thinking when you ask your kids? 00;08;05;17 - 00;08;24;26 Like my being a good dad, your your significant other is like my being a good partner right now or your friends, like, what's your perception of me, you know, and in some ways they may be a really excited or even surprised that you're asking, but when you want to know exactly what they're thinking when you ask that question. 00;08;26;01 - 00;08;42;24 Yeah. And I have jokes in my head, if I'm asking my kids, Am I being a good dad to you? And then be like, No, because you've got to give me money, you know? So yeah, everybody wins on that one. I guess I got my feedback and they maybe get some cash it, you know, you said it the feedback, right? 00;08;42;24 - 00;09;03;07 So another, another scenario which my thoughts will include is, you know, recently if somebody is coming to you that doesn't normally come to you and they're and they're, you know, it could be a manager, somebody, some position of influence authority that matters less. But you're not used to the answering questions in a way that they aren't. So they ask. 00;09;03;11 - 00;09;21;19 So like different levels of questioning right. So, you know, you being a senior vice president, probably high level, you have an enormous amount of knowledge in the details of something wherever in the topic that you have because you've conditioned your mindset to understand that stuff. You know, it it's your it's your thing. Whereas maybe I don't because I'm not I'm not at that level. 00;09;21;19 - 00;09;38;10 I'm not exposed to it on a regular basis to think that way. So I'm a little bit more in the weeds and whatnot. So if you ask me a question that I'm not used to hearing, I may not answer it accurately, especially if it's over Slack or text or something like that written. Then I, I may answer it. 00;09;38;10 - 00;10;10;29 And then you walk away thinking a certain kind of way about my answer where it wasn't wasn't complete. I have learned in that sense to where there's some people out there that hear things and they answer a question, but they don't understand the context or the spirit or the essence of the question to be able to follow up and be mindful of the things that I'm taking the long way around to answer your your or respond to your your statement is the selfless thought that goes into wanting to know, did I answer your question? 00;10;11;05 - 00;10;28;24 Am I serving you in the way that you expect? Am I delivering the things that are of value to you? And I think if we learned to become habitual in responding to people when they ask a question you say something along the lines of and you can make it your own. Does that into your question? Was that helpful? 00;10;29;27 - 00;10;33;28 You know, that way you can kind of calibrate whether or not you did answer it. 00;10;34;17 - 00;10;51;29 I think it's a very important point, Chris, just like is that when you're asking questions, you get an answer, or if you're giving an answer to some ask you questions it's the follow up questions. There's sometimes even more important. Right. I think you just said, is that did that answer what you were looking for is did I provide you in that the right direction? 00;10;51;29 - 00;11;15;21 Getting that clarity right? That's a big part of communication. Likewise, I think when sometimes you let's say you ask your manager or a peer saying, hey, am I doing the right things for the team? No, no, you're wasting everyone's time or you're focused on the wrong things. Now, sometimes people immediately will be defensive, right? And say, oh, hang on, the most important point is saying, oh, I'd like to understand that more. 00;11;15;22 - 00;11;42;17 Speaker 2 Right. You then asked them an additional question to get the more context so you can reflect and internalizing on it. And that's the most important thing because it's there especially you now open up the door that's a positive door, a getting a a wealth of information and feedback loops in and it's a safe place to do so. You know, I know I said a million times, especially on this topic, is that whenever you get feedback you always have one answer. 00;11;43;01 - 00;11;58;06 Thank you for the feedback. You never be defensive on it. If you ever respond, it's more of like can it's about asking more questions to get more feedback in a safe way because then that you never, ever, ever want to close that door because that means you're shutting the door on your career. 00;11;59;18 - 00;12;23;24 Yeah, there's missed opportunities. I mean that there's the can we open it up? So the missed opportunity, I mean, the engagement through dialog I think is kind of a, for me, a simplistic way to approach it, right? If if relationships are key to the things that we are trying to achieve right? Because we never do it alone. We may think that that's not accurate. 00;12;24;18 - 00;12;55;11 If relationships are key to the things that we're trying to achieve, the kind of the base premise right? The the fundamentals of the foundation of that comes through the dialog where we learn more about the types of individuals that we're engaging with. And I think you just nailed it is one, the candor which you've talked about before is all is all most of us need is because if everything's good in our head, then we don't really grow because we're not being challenged. 00;12;55;11 - 00;13;14;25 You know, it's all perceptions virtual virtually, depending upon how you perceive things in the timing of things. But if the dialog isn't occurring where it's it's inconsistent of just facts, right? It's just we're just talking and I'm sharing with you based off of our, our relationship and the value that we provide each other in the roles that we're in. 00;13;15;03 - 00;13;25;00 I'm giving you information so we can together continue this to grow this relationship and then be able to, you know, how do you say drive towards common goals? 00;13;26;10 - 00;13;30;20 Yes. You know, common goals, shared goals, shared outcomes, Absolutely. 00;13;31;18 - 00;13;51;00 Yeah. So it's the you know, like you said, is, you know, taking the information in for what it is, you know, avoiding the temptation to be take it personally. I was going to say not be emotional about it. Maybe you should be emotional about it. Maybe maybe you should be upset that somebody is coming to you and sharing with you. 00;13;51;02 - 00;14;08;24 Now, delivery is also the thing. I want to I want to be clear here, right? So you have to be we learned this in the military, but, you know, anywhere you learn this tact is important, right? How you deliver it. It's not necessarily sometimes what you say, it's how you say it that carries the impact, too. So but even then, we can dissect that and say, well, that's all relative perception. 00;14;08;24 - 00;14;24;09 Based off of the person you're speaking with, how they feel at the moment, maybe the lens they have, maybe they are in a you know, not in a great mood. And then, you know, some you could say the same thing twice and it be interpreted differently each time. But depending on the mood of the individual, you're saying it, too. 00;14;24;09 - 00;14;37;12 But I think I think you're right. It's it's a matter of understanding the timing of everything that we share with each other and the information we share has got to be relevant. And you had to be able to tie it to something that's important to what you're trying to do together. 00;14;38;17 - 00;15;02;03 I think you brought up a really important point, Chris. It's they it's not just about tact. Right. And I think as we learn, it's about IQ right here, the emotional quotient. And I'm going to put that one down me. That's why we have a future podcast, right? Because you may be as factually correct and accurate as possible, but if you don't have your IQ in line, right by the the the communication flow, the result can be very, very negative. 00;15;02;03 - 00;15;04;24 So I'm going to see that on our list here for that for the future. 00;15;05;06 - 00;15;06;05 I wrote it down. 00;15;06;20 - 00;15;26;07 You know, with that said, you know, I think that there's also a little bit of the time and place of when to ask questions, right? So just like, you know, the IQ being in a safe place is that you really want to understand the and think about the context, the situation that you're in, right? Is that asking questions at the wrong time, right? 00;15;26;07 - 00;15;50;13 Can be create the wrong perceptions and things like that. And you always make sure there's a a safe place. Right. It also likewise is that knowing you know, you may get, you know, not the you may get feedback that may be painful. Right. So for example, one of my favorite things I told many mentors is that once a month, you should ask your manager, you know, what's the one thing that you're doing wrong, right? 00;15;50;14 - 00;16;06;06 What's the most painful, you know, failure, right? And you want to do it safe. That your manager gets to emotion that into a position that they're very comfortable sharing with you because you want to know the things that are the back of their mind that they're holding back. They know it's going to be painful they don't want to share it because we're human. 00;16;07;00 - 00;16;23;26 So certainly don't do this on a Friday, you know, because in a Friday, it's like, yeah, the weekend's going to be kind of miserable for you. Right? You know, the idea is like maybe doing a Monday or Tuesday. So that night you're going to go home, not feel so good, but you're going to get through it. Right. Versus dwelling on it. 00;16;23;26 - 00;16;35;07 Over the weekend. But once you get used to it, you also want to do it. You want to continue doing it, but you're going can be ready for it. So it's about planning when you perform things. 00;16;35;28 - 00;16;54;06 Yeah, it's a good point. The you know, this is classic. So time time is is a factor in everything that we're doing, right? I mean, that's I think everybody understands that if you have time for it, you try to bring it up. But here's a common thing that I've noticed. You know, maybe you've you're in a you're in a conversation with somebody like, oh, I have to go like, wait one more question. 00;16;54;06 - 00;17;16;20 And it's it's the big question that probably should have been asked earlier. But you drop it when somebody has already said that they're in a rush, in a hurry, needing to now, you know, leave the leave the conversation and then you give them this this deep question that significant in everything that's happening. And like you on the Friday, what you're saying on a Friday is, you know, sometimes you don't want to do that for whatever reason. 00;17;17;12 - 00;17;48;26 I think it's a matter of that IQ that you're talking about. The the situational awareness and we've experienced this where if under pressure the timing of it is to say, hey, we got we have to go. We have to execute well. If that's the case, then recognize read the room to recognize, you know, is this a question that I need to know the answer based on the severity of the time of where we're in at the moment, or is this something that we just table and we can learn after? 00;17;49;05 - 00;18;13;17 Or I can ask somebody else. And I think that's what it all it's an infinite loop that comes back to the individual and understanding if you're not contributing at the right level where you bring in value that's par with the team that you're in or the group that you're in, then it's probably better safe than sorry to hold the question and take it offline instead of consuming time with everybody else around. 00;18;13;28 - 00;18;27;15 That is probably already on the table. Now we can go back and pass it back to you, but you go back and say, Well, maybe everybody's thinking the same thing and nobody's asking it. And then now that important question doesn't get asked. That's a tough one. 00;18;27;26 - 00;18;40;23 Actually. I think you raise some great points here about is the timing of like in the audience when it's a one on one audience. For a larger audience, there's the times of things that you'd say that now I need to ask a question because there's an elephant in the room and no one's raising it, and that's the right thing to do. 00;18;41;03 - 00;19;05;17 There's other times that they're everyone's maybe afraid to ask the question and you need to step up and lead through that. There's also other times that you need be careful that you may have an issue with one person. You may have an issue with, you know, one thing, that thing of sometimes asking the wrong question at the wrong time can derail everything and be very damaging in saying that you may want to choose to take it offline or go to individual. 00;19;06;09 - 00;19;21;24 And so to be very careful and thinking through that. Right, is that whose impact would be the question, is it everyone in a positive or negative way or is it just one person? And being very strategic and thoughtful on that is equally important yeah. 00;19;22;08 - 00;19;44;26 Yeah. And actually just kind of rolling my eyes, looking for a way to explain it. If you're really dialed in to the room where there's multiple people or maybe it's just one, you know, that you you probably see the right person to ask the question. So maybe it's not necessarily to everybody, but then you've already identified that this person is demonstrated to be skilled in this area. 00;19;45;17 - 00;20;06;02 Let me not consume time from everybody else to ask the question that's probably most relevant to only that one person that I'm able to now be aware of, because historically we've learned that these, you know, these positions that we're in and roles that we're in, you know, we know who to go to. And we can we can target the question specifically being more efficient. 00;20;06;02 - 00;20;21;00 But that's the work that we're talking about, is to be able to share the information, to know who's bringing the value in particular areas. This is what we're talking about. You're developing a group of people around you to know who to go to for very specific things to optimize time. 00;20;21;03 - 00;20;46;09 Yeah, absolutely. Now, let's take it to the next level is thinking about best practices. And sometimes that that there's a topic, whether it's a meeting with others or topic with, you know, with a manager or a peer. And you need to ask a hard question or exploratory. Well, sometimes you want to be do it in advance and saying, hey, for the meeting later in the week, here's the questions I'm going to ask. 00;20;46;13 - 00;21;04;11 Right. Or here's the questions here's the things that I'm looking for feedback on, or here's the things that I'm concerned about, or here's things I need clarity on in how you can do the, you know, the prep work. I love I'm a big fan of pre read, right? When you're helping everybody understand is what's going to come up, they can be ready for it. 00;21;04;12 - 00;21;29;02 They can be they can think through it. They can, you know, be thoughtful about it versus being a surprise right now. We all admit that sometimes that is the right tactic to surprise someone when things are going wrong. But think about it. You know, what is going to be a tactical hit? You know what's going to be a strategic, you know, motion and the timing is is critical planning. 00;21;30;02 - 00;21;47;25 That's another one that we talk about planning, right? So you're if you know, you're going to a conference, it's a mindset you've talked about it. But drilling down into that, if you know you're going somewhere, you know you're going on a trip, you can travel you want on a plane, taking a road trip, going to a conference, you plan you prepare. 00;21;48;10 - 00;22;06;23 That level of preparation is to get you to be more present wherever you're going as much as possible. To know that where you are is what's relevant to what should be on your mind. But you've prepared for it no different in planning a conversation. And I think that's probably what some people I don't know how many I don't know. 00;22;07;10 - 00;22;24;23 Some people don't consider that and they wait until the meeting to introduce something. So they create an agenda or they say, hey, I want to talk to you next week, let me know what's good and then leave it at that with the common question that comes back. But some people just probably have become accustomed to receiving it that way. 00;22;25;01 - 00;22;46;13 There isn't a follow up. Say Hey, great. Yeah, I can try to find time. What is it that we want to talk about? You can fire that question off and help somebody grow around you to be better prepared by planting the information early on what the general topics would include. So we have more meaningful depth and substance in the conversation when we get to that part yeah. 00;22;46;14 - 00;23;01;03 Chris, I can't resist commenting on this one. It's like one of my personal pet peeves is people that as you didn't become a manager, an organization, you know, over time, if you're like, Oh, David, I want to have a one on one with you. And I'm like, all right, what's the agenda? What questions you want to ask, right? 00;23;01;13 - 00;23;18;14 Is like, I don't want to meet unless I know what's upcoming is like, am I the right person? Is can I be prepped on the questions? Are we going to be surprised on it? Right. And I think that is it's a my personal pet peeve. But I also, I think in being a better leader, being a better person is kind of like, all right, here's the agenda. 00;23;18;14 - 00;23;29;27 Here's the questions I'm going to ask so that it can be the most productive, you know, in optimized conversation versus being surprised and then it's like great questions. I need to follow up on that because I got to go look into it. 00;23;30;17 - 00;23;50;26 Right. Which delays. Yeah. And, you know, the selfish thing and I'll say that with love in my heart, the selfish thing is to think that if it happens to you, you won't feel the same way, right? If somebody comes in and drops something last minute on you, you know, it's happened to us before. It was like, why didn't you tell me earlier? 00;23;51;04 - 00;24;18;23 Or Why didn't you let me know? Or I don't know. I'd have to think about that. I mean, we're digging deep on this one because some people probably won't even be able to have our, say, courage or confidence might be a better word. I don't know. To be able to say because it's we're all based. Right. You know, David, senior vice president, you know, chief information security, these titles that might interfere with my ability where David comes to me, ask me a question that I don't really have an answer for. 00;24;18;23 - 00;24;36;24 So instead of saying it's a good question, David, I'm going to need a day to probably go back and try to find some of those answers. Instead, I'll feel compelled to accommodate the question because of the pressure I put on myself on who is in front of me. And it's my own thing. And I'm like, hmm, And now I might be reaching for the answers, right? 00;24;36;24 - 00;25;00;26 So I think I think these things that we're talking about here is, you know, we're scraping the surface on scenarios that should introduce to anybody that's caring to hear it all the opportunities to where you can simply optimize time and be courteous to others by asking questions up front but that takes preparation, which you have to have clarity, which you have to know yourself on. 00;25;01;02 - 00;25;07;06 What will it take for me to have these elements to be optimal, invaluable in other people's goals? 00;25;07;24 - 00;25;25;17 Absolutely. And Chris, it doesn't matter of what the levels are for the people, you know, the hierarchy's things like that. You know, tomorrow, Chris, if you get a you get a message saying, Chris, I want to have a one on one with you tomorrow for some urgent issues. How do you feel about that ambiguity? Right. Am I the right person you know, can I be prepped for this? 00;25;25;17 - 00;25;34;26 Right. You know, and this person would join with me. Who cares, right? You want to be ready for it. And it's really then you say no one on one because I want to know what the questions are. 00;25;35;22 - 00;25;52;24 Yeah, it's not fair. And that goes back to the core asking the right questions. So it's like, okay, great. Got it. Can you give me the top three things just real quick? I know you have to go consider it. Right? I'm acknowledging compassion and empathy. I'm saying, well, the person's probably benefit doubt. Probably too busy to give me the details. 00;25;52;24 - 00;26;17;28 And in their mind, is just doing me. They think they're doing me a favor by saying, hey, it's it's important. But now my mind's especially on Friday, my mind's world wending around the infinite loop of the abyss of what it could be. And to them, again, it's it's relative to perception. To them, it's urgent. To me, it's like, oh, I wish you had told me that in the beginning, because that simple I could slack or text you or simply respond immediately because I know the answer. 00;26;18;25 - 00;26;35;00 Correct? Yeah. Or it's a Friday. A Friday afternoon. Chris, an urgent to talk to you about. And like, I got to wait 8 hours to find out about this. You know, I was going to take off a weekend, right? Yeah. And I think that's sometimes when you play it back to people like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's quite reasonable. I should have offer that to you. 00;26;35;01 - 00;26;35;09 Right? 00;26;35;21 - 00;27;02;21 It's fair, right? To be fair, you know, and that's, that's being inclusive, that's being respectful, that's being mindful, it's being you know, the type of professional that, you know, most people would love to have. Some people don't recognize that it's a possibility because not everybody's doing it because well, a bunch of reasons, but maybe just people aren't aware or they're not cognizant of how they're they're giving the impression to others. 00;27;02;21 - 00;27;27;07 Of what they're doing. Maybe maybe nobody slow them down to say, here's what you said. Here's the one thing that you can improve on. I've noticed this last week. Right. But if you don't ask that now, you've put it on somebody else to to, you know, overflow their tolerance levels, if you will, and then feel compelled to say it through probably a higher level of emotion versus a baseline of just simple conversation. 00;27;27;23 - 00;27;50;27 Absolutely. And I think that the thing is, you know, coming back to the fundamentals here, is is we talked many times of things about, you know, listening. Sometimes, you know, the best listeners, the best leaders are the people that ask questions. Right. And it's not a challenge. Right. It's to understand. And sometimes by asking questions, people can really feel right that you care, that you're understanding. 00;27;50;27 - 00;28;12;00 Right. You're you're that you are listening. Right? Because if you ask questions versus, you know, like, now I'm just talking to you, you're nodding your head like, are you really listening to me, Chris? Right. But like but if you start asking me questions like, oh, you were listening to me, oh, you do care, right? You do understand. It's amazing how powerful just asking a few questions can be in communication. 00;28;12;16 - 00;28;45;07 I'm not my head because immediately said something that had me think of a friend of mine who introduced something that when when he and I talk, he wasn't asking the right questions right. And he'd gone through a pretty significant career and being successful at it. He's humble enough. He probably won't admit that. But when he when somebody in my mind that I hold in high regard says it not asking the right questions, I'm like, how do you how did you achieve everything that you did and not ask the right questions? 00;28;45;19 - 00;29;08;21 But so I was immediately I was listening and listening to talk a little bit because I wanted to share that. But you're right. The you know, the communication, that's another element that you factor in. And what's your what's your observing that should spark if you're in the moment, you should spark that should spark you now to realize something because you're recognizing that it's different than what you had seen in the last couple of minutes. 00;29;08;21 - 00;29;28;23 And it's initiating another desire to learn. And that's the point. I think we all get that you ask questions to learn. Some of the problem is, you know, some of us have some pride and ego or we don't feel like we can or should from the people that we're around at the moment. And so we don't. Right. And that's probably your most vulnerable moment. 00;29;29;12 - 00;29;48;17 Yeah. I'm coming back to the point is, you know, Chris, I think that you think about times that we're doing a review or presentation to one of our leaders, executives, others right. And do you like it the most when they just they nod, they quiet for an hour and they say, all right, thanks, everybody. See you soon. Okay. 00;29;48;17 - 00;30;11;02 Do they get it? Do they really like it? You know, feedback versus throughout the question, you know, throughout the presentation or review, they're like they're asking some questions, some thoughtful question, and they understand it. Oh, yeah. They they clearly we're on the same page. Oh, oh, no. We're we're off track here. We ask just sometimes just asking a few questions, even if it's that they're totally aligned, they're totally on the same page. 00;30;11;02 - 00;30;26;16 They're totally going to approve everything. A few questions gives us that validation, right? And that sometimes is very important to us as leaders. So thinking about or just anyone, right? Is how are you coming, you know, communicating back, ask a few questions. You've conveyed a very clear message back. 00;30;27;09 - 00;30;50;13 Yeah. So let's let's tinker with the. Well, let me go back and I just did what you just said. I teach back in a conversation. It's a classroom setting sometimes that where you've seen it, right? Where the you know, we we show, we tell, we show. And then they demonstrate understanding something that we're familiar with. Right. That's sort of times training and all that stuff. 00;30;50;13 - 00;31;13;06 When we go out there in the field and learn something or not, depending on who you are, but the idea, though, is, you know, you're acknowledging through, you know, repeating what was just discussed like. No, it's a good point, David. You know, it's it's when people don't demonstrate that they've confirmed or, you know, through some method confirm that they've heard what you just said before you move on. 00;31;13;06 - 00;31;32;24 I was just did that. And the intent is to be curious about it enough to where you don't have to think about that. Right. And I think that comes through putting the reps in and rehearsing on how to just a good news you heard all the time he's you know the person she's a great conversationalist. You know, she really listens. 00;31;33;06 - 00;31;57;25 And I really feel like there's substance in the conversations that we're having because before you move on to a subject, you want to make sure that it's complete. Right. And that comes through just the thing that we just talked about. You know, somebody says something and you respond. It's how you respond that kind of motivates or incentivizes somebody wanted to continue because if it's empty and like what you said in your example, you know, they just said, okay, that's great. 00;31;57;25 - 00;32;17;18 And any other questions, everybody? Yeah, you don't feel heard, which probably is another episode, you know, how do you feel heard or how can you you know what? I don't know. Doesn't matter. But yeah, I think I think it's a it's a point to where, you know, reciprocating the the you got to close beginning, middle end the story. 00;32;17;22 - 00;32;25;28 The beginning is what's the question? The middle is the conversation. And the end is the summary of what we just talked about in some brief form, depending on the level of conversation. 00;32;26;26 - 00;32;44;29 Yeah. Spin on. I think that's a great summary, Chris. I think the I think that, you know, the real question, I think at the end here, no, pun intended to. Right. Is like how do we get everyone, you know, to build the habit of asking lots of questions, right. You know, and I'll say if you're having everybody, you know, pick up the book, you know, comic habits, right? 00;32;44;29 - 00;32;52;03 An easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad ones. And if you haven't read the book, Chris, have you read that book yet? 00;32;52;21 - 00;33;04;05 No, I don't. I I have I have a lot of books. I read some of them, but rarely do I read all of them all the way through. So but I have it and I've dabbled yes. 00;33;04;22 - 00;33;13;12 Yeah. So, Chris, we we have to we have to build the habit of you reading all the book recommendations we make on this this podcast. Yeah. And that's not a question. It's a statement. 00;33;14;09 - 00;33;51;09 It's a fact. Right. So you're right. Yeah. I mean, it's I think the funny thing is there if I were to kind of pull that as an analogy or kind of metaphorically speaking, I'd probably analogy an example is that's indicative of conversation, right? Where you pick your spots level of interest and then that probably either excites you about asking more questions because it's something that you're connected to and your, your, you know, it's important and so you do that or if it's not that compelling for you, that probably drives your interest level too, where you don't answer the question or you don't read the whole book. 00;33;51;09 - 00;34;14;02 You know, you're looking for something that you want and then you leave, right? So whether it's conversation or relationship or book or what have you and maybe that's the things that we can consider to say it's it's never about you, really. It's always about others. And so what you're wanting to do is a goal is maybe to carry that mindset into, say, how can I serve you better? 00;34;15;14 - 00;34;15;29 Well, what? 00;34;17;11 - 00;34;22;24 All right. Good stuff, David. It's always a pleasure. Any closing comments. 00;34;23;19 - 00;34;43;17 In closing comment is I say to everyone is that starting tomorrow, start asking yourself questions. I start asking your managers questions, start asking your peers questions. Right. And you know, we're looking forward to the next podcast, too. And we're going to ask everybody at the beginning, you know, what questions have you asked yourself today before kicking off the episode? 00;34;44;16 - 00;34;49;12 I love it. Yeah. Questions. Ask them how anybody keep moving forward,…

MAVEN

1
Visibility: Be the One Others Think Of 36:09

1 year36:09

36:09

We don’t need to know what’s going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what’s going on. Why and when do we let others know about what we’re doing? In this episode we talk about VISIBILITY and why this topic is important for many people in advancing their careers, being recognized for great impact and performance and also, quite possibly even more importantly, to ensure you are focusing on the right priorities and initiatives. You should expect that not everyone will be able to recognize or see your value unless you have intentionally put yourself out there to be the one people think of when needing help! We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;11 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maiden podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;15 - 00;00;58;22 We don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on. Why and when do we let others know about what we're doing? In this episode, we're talking visibility and why this topic is important for many people in advancing their careers, being recognized for great impact and performance, and also quite possibly even more importantly, to ensure you're focusing on the right priorities and initiatives, you should expect that not everyone will be able to recognize or see your value unless you have intentionally put yourself out there to be the one they think of when they need help. 00;00;58;25 - 00;01;17;23 Listen in as we discuss how to be consistent, lead by example, and drive change with both yourself and your organization. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;17;24 - 00;01;26;28 David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David, good morning. 00;01;27;20 - 00;01;38;04 Morning, Chris. I am so excited to get talking on this topic. Right. And is really making this stand out to everybody because it's about visibility. 00;01;39;01 - 00;01;56;28 Visibility, how to be seen. How do you want to be seen how do you not want to be seen? That's a good one. So this is coming off the heels of our last one where we were talking about networking, and I think close to that was relationship and this one's visibility. So what do you got, David? 00;01;58;04 - 00;02;19;20 You know, Chris, I think there is a lot of people run into this challenge is that you're working your tail off, you're working 80 hours a week. You know, you're getting all these things done, you're closing all these deals, you're delivering all these results. Yet No one, you're not getting rewarded for it. You're not being recognized for it. You're you feel like you're not being compensated for it. 00;02;20;01 - 00;02;26;09 Well, sometimes the root cause of this is you have no visibility. No one knows what in the world you're doing. 00;02;27;27 - 00;02;51;08 That's a fact. I mean, those are the things that you really need to understand as far as why you're doing. It's one thing. Well, first of all, nobody should be doing 80 hours a week, but you got it. Context extra effort, putting in time. What you need to understand is where you're putting the time and how it's driving impact to the greater good, to the business, to the organization. 00;02;51;08 - 00;03;07;04 To the team or what have you. And then making sure that not only do people know about it for updates and the relevance of how it ties back into those goals, those organizational goals. But more importantly, from an individual perspective, how do you acknowledge your performance and how you're contributing? 00;03;08;06 - 00;03;35;19 Absolutely. You know, I think as you think about how many companies like Oracle or Google and many others be used in OKRs, you know, objective objectives and key results. Right. So you say, okay, it's about results as impact Now, if your results and impact are not visible, if they're not clear, if they're not documented, if they're not evangelized, if they're not shared, then how can it really how can it be a measurable result? 00;03;35;25 - 00;03;50;20 How can it be a major impact? Right. And so I think this is sometimes the kind of art and science of sometimes, you know, having great careers and great performance is thinking about not just about what you do, but also how you share it. 00;03;52;04 - 00;04;18;22 It's good Segway. So how you share it. So it's it's it is, of course, what you're doing. It is, of course, why you're doing it. But if you're not letting people know whether they're on the team or not, depends on the relationship, which we talked about, how you're connecting with others on the relevance So if you're working with a virtual team, things that we already know is the best practices, you're going to work with the team and communicate effectively to be able to give the team updates. 00;04;18;29 - 00;04;44;24 Here's what I'm doing Maybe we're talking a little bit about that. Maybe we're more focused on, again, the the way that you're perceived in others and providing the value. And so you can not necessarily get the credit for credit sake, but be acknowledged for the work that you're putting in that's contributing to these factors that eventually lead to some of the things that we're talking about, contributing to those OKRs, contributing to the goals, contributing to the team. 00;04;45;12 - 00;05;02;00 But then when it comes to performance, it comes to performance management It comes to recognition for that performance and in compensatory reasons or promotion periods and things like that, it's, it's, it's all working together so as necessary. 00;05;02;21 - 00;05;22;09 I agree. 100%. And I think sometimes I get stuck with a basic, you know, and best practice is that everything you do should be documented. Right. So I think it's like, let's go back to our military days, right? Everything you perform, right? You you have checklists, you have tasks, you have missions, right? And everything. There is a result and it's documented. 00;05;22;18 - 00;05;42;26 It's not just kind of, you know, past my mouth, right. Or, you know, kind of tribal songs and things like that. You documented it is documented for a reason, a so that people can actually learn from it, you know, be you can measure and evaluate the results and see how people can be recognized, rewarded, you know, acknowledged for great work. 00;05;43;06 - 00;05;50;13 And sometimes it's not just about what others do. It's about how you initiate it. Right. And it becomes part of your practice. 00;05;51;29 - 00;06;17;12 Right. I think that's a that's another key point here. And as basic basic fundamentals I guess, is the way to kind of illustrate the key components, how do you initiate it? One, probably goes down and do a conversation of this is the beginning of a fiscal year, the beginning of a project or beginning of an idea. Hey, I'm thinking about doing this. 00;06;18;06 - 00;06;37;15 What are your thoughts? And you're pulling people in and now you're beginning to pass the ideas back and forth. You're sharing some pads that can be taken for these types of things, and then you're trying to find and identify, well how many resources are going to be necessary for these types of things, how much work is involved, what are the costs? 00;06;38;03 - 00;07;09;28 What are some of the restrictions and some of the elements that or the the variables that we need to consider before we get into that? Because that also is a way that you're being able to express the depth of your thoughts or your skills and your ability to know how to bring in others to help accomplish the goals, which is a factor like today in today's world where there's a lot of hybrid activities in these certain careers, where many years ago it was very niche, very specific. 00;07;09;28 - 00;07;31;19 Now, you know, the workforce is looking for people that have a diverse skill set that contributes in a much broader way for the team or the organization. So initiating how you initiate is part of that disability. It's saying, Well, this person seems to have a good, deeper understanding of our business needs in our business. Let's talk more. 00;07;32;21 - 00;07;51;21 I think, Chris, you bring up a great point is and maybe sometimes the soft skills, right, to a degree. So I think is that, you know, certainly a high tech sector we see this is you can have great technical skills, but you also need to have a soft skills, things like in a communication presentation. But this is things that fall into visibility, right? 00;07;52;01 - 00;08;09;12 You may be the best developer in the world. You may be the best lessee. Machinist, right. You may be the best engineer. Yet, if you don't know how to communicate to these things, you don't know how to share these things. Right. Those are the soft skills. And this is what holds back a lot of people sometimes in their careers, right? 00;08;09;13 - 00;08;30;05 In their performance, you know, in their recognition of the results. You know, those things and this is something that we really want to, you know, courage to think about you. Now, some ways, I think that, you know, I know we have, you know, probably thousands of non veteran military listeners to our podcast. Some people like are David, I don't I don't want to follow your military methods. 00;08;30;05 - 00;08;52;15 We don't have that in our company. But I say, well, where do you start? So sometimes you start with very simple things. Going back to a topic that we've mentioned a few times here, and our podcast is networking, right? You know, never eat lunch alone. Never have coffee alone, right? Yes. Sometimes build your network and show their network on the results if they're not secret and proprietary, you know, you know, to your company. 00;08;52;15 - 00;09;07;12 But like in your network inside your company and broader issue chair, look what we did. You know, look at the results here. Look at this. And the impact right in sharing it. And eventually you can start to build and grow that network and natural recognition and visibility can come from that. 00;09;09;01 - 00;09;34;06 That's a good point. It it it just goes to show how important networking is through the networking. It builds the connections to be able to establish yourself and your maybe your reputation or your skill set precedes you. But everybody understands better about what you're able to offer. And now I mean, I think this is the we're talking about the very beginning phases of visibility is to say, do people want you working with them? 00;09;34;28 - 00;09;56;12 How are you presenting yourself? And some of those things you just thought you just talked about, right? You introduced how you communicate everything begins with communicating, whether it's the written verbal doesn't matter. There's all of these indicators. You're saying, well, this person is giving me the impression that they know what they're doing. They know how to do it. 00;09;56;27 - 00;10;15;09 And that in itself, the work that you're doing is a form of communication, if you will, because now it's going to be word of mouth. And so I think that reputation that's built off of successful accomplishments to include some failures, I mean, we we know that we want to fail because that's the test I'm saying. Is it going to work or not? 00;10;15;21 - 00;10;43;15 We just need to understand how to fail. You know, I think the one thing that we understand most and you just talked about it was civilians or military veteran affiliated communities matters less. The whole idea is, well, when I have these skills, how do I communicate my skills to make them relevant to the topic or to the others that are looking for these type of skills to be included in that team dynamic or in that team discussion is is somebody that we want to be a part of the team. 00;10;44;07 - 00;10;53;28 So I'll park it here. But the transferable skills, how do I communicate what I've done in order to have the proper visibility of what I'm capable of doing and how I'm going to contribute? 00;10;55;08 - 00;11;25;18 Yeah, Chris, to build on a little bit, thinking about it's you know, I'm a big fan of Crawl, Walk, Run, right? You know, and starting things. I feel like, well, this doesn't, you know, culture does not exist in my company. We do. No one else does this well, sometimes I would say lead by example, right? Many companies, whether using Slack or Microsoft teams or KUDO boards and things like that, even though it's not necessarily given yourself kudos, it's maybe in giving others kudos lead by example, start in building that culture. 00;11;25;18 - 00;11;47;19 Right. And you know, many other people saying that, wow, I saw, you know, Jane, Doe doing some great work. I want to recognize and call it out in encouraging others over time. Right. How becomes part of your team and company culture and then it gets easier, easier for people to be visible, easier for them to kind of share in a results, easier for people to be recognized for that. 00;11;47;19 - 00;11;52;07 So I think that's one thing that we always ask and recommend people lead by example. 00;11;54;15 - 00;12;23;06 No, that's that's a great example and that's a great example of how to be seen without putting the spotlight on you. And sharing credit, advocating for others my personal opinion is the proper way. I think at some point we all need to understand that everybody sees what's happening. I don't think there's a lot of people that are fooled or tricked into thinking that somebody else is doing the work. 00;12;23;27 - 00;12;50;25 And the one that actually did it isn't going to get the credit. I think everybody over time is going to be able to see that the ones that did the work are the ones that are probably the most quiet in a humble way. Right? Not necessarily literally quiet, but it's just a matter of understanding that they're you know, they're silently acknowledging that they contributed, but they're more focused on giving the accolades to the team. 00;12;51;08 - 00;13;18;04 That way, everybody else is getting seen as being able to deliver and so I think that there's another part of the visibility component you have to really understand. You know, there's there's self advocating and then there's self when you how would you say it? Self gratifying, maybe, you know, where there's going to be a time and a place where you're going to have to explain your accomplishments in that setting. 00;13;18;04 - 00;13;32;07 It's because somebody is literally assessing whether or not you're going to be able to meet the expectations before they bring you in to start something with them that's not the same as what we're talking about. It's this is becoming now your footprint. 00;13;33;18 - 00;13;50;24 Yeah. Chris, building up on that right is I think there's always way to start things very easy and early, you know, whether regardless of your role, like with your manager, you know, very simple. I've learned this maybe you know, 15, 20 years ago, right? Is like every week you know is that your manager manager may not want it or not. 00;13;50;24 - 00;14;13;01 Right. You say, hey you write three to five bullets, hey, this is what I got done this week. This is what I'm going to do this week. And whether you're managing replies to it cares about it every single week you say, here's what I got done this week. And over time you'd be surprised everyone that of how addicts give that mail, that sort of accomplishments well will become to your manager and sometimes your skip levels and others. 00;14;13;07 - 00;14;34;04 Right. And then you can build upon that. Right? And I can't recommend this even more, you know, to to anyone. It's amazing is that once you build a rhythm, you know, a music beat, if you will, are drum beat, right? People will very quickly become addicted to it, start marching to it, no pun intended. And I can say also building upon a little bit is I've been writing for many people that know me. 00;14;34;04 - 00;14;52;03 I write what's called the weekly dossier you know, the status mail newsletter. No, because people delete those. But I read the dossier, whether anyone reads it or not, I write it. Every company I've been at. Right. And eventually people start to follow and they want to know what's going on, you know, what they accomplish, what the results, what they said, just go read the dossier. 00;14;52;13 - 00;15;02;29 But people amazingly will start marching to your music and your drumbeat when you start it. It won't happen overnight. It won't happen in one week to week, three weeks. It may not happen for a couple of months. 00;15;03;12 - 00;15;13;19 And that is actually an interesting dynamic so it's a matter of understanding. Well, why why would you do that one? I'm assuming you do that because you love to do it, right? 00;15;14;00 - 00;15;32;21 I do it not so much at first. What, Nick? Actually, I'll be open and honest if I go back many years ago, people. What in the world are you doing, David? What are you getting done? What are your team doing right And so I initially I did to solve a problem, right? But over time, you know, I've managed large organizations. 00;15;32;21 - 00;15;50;25 It's about what is your team doing? And so those of us in a cybersecurity, people know that security is always a black box. Right. And no one knows what in the world you guys are doing. Why we're paying you so much. Why do you have so many people? Well, we start doing some things and making it open. People get to you know, are quite thankful for it. 00;15;50;25 - 00;16;14;02 And they recognized, well, why do we have this team So I think it evolved for me over time. But I realized that just like especially, you know, the other point of distributing organizations around the world, hybrid organizations, you know, people working remotely, you've got to overcommunicate. Otherwise, there is no visibility if we're not in the same office. Chris, how in the world do I know what in the world you're doing? 00;16;14;29 - 00;16;50;16 Yep. And that's that's where it intersects because, you know, to do to do something for a personal preference because it's love it it's what you love to do. And then when it becomes sort of depended on, I guess you can say dependent upon now people expected yeah. I guess the challenge would be now it becomes more laborious and there's a temptation now to to have an expectation to where some people if it's not sincerely or organically something they want to do, that consistency begins to fade because now it's an expectation. 00;16;51;08 - 00;17;00;28 But in your experience, David, when you when you when you do that, what do you think is the number one driver for you to continue to write your dossier? 00;17;02;07 - 00;17;20;18 Well, from myself is the fact that more and more people sign up to read it and receive it every week or so. That's an insight in itself. But I'll give you going back to another element, as you mentioned, about, you know, careers, performance, you know, performance review cycles. I go, oh, what in the world did I do this year? 00;17;21;07 - 00;17;40;14 Should I be exceeded should be outstanding, right? Or whatever. What do I write down? Well, you know, if you had a nice little record of a weekly mail that you wrote every week or a couple of bullets every single week of all your accomplishments for the year, it gets really, really easy to write your performance review for the year because you've already documented everything. 00;17;40;18 - 00;17;43;20 Now just cut and paste. Believe it or not, it can be that simple. 00;17;44;20 - 00;18;18;24 Got it. And that's that's what I was going for because it's there's a duality in it. You're it's self-serving, but it's not self centered, right? You're doing it because it's going to provide value down the line and noting, documenting or updating, you know, in whatever form, whether it's writing it in a notebook and then eventually transposing it into digital format or if you're taking notes digitally, all of those things carry into that as an opportunity for us to understand maybe what you're thinking, you know, anybody out there wondering, well, I want to do it, but what's the point? 00;18;18;25 - 00;18;40;09 Well, the point should begin with you. You're doing it for you. And the whole point is it matters less what other people think. The second is, if you're going to do that and then you're going to share it with others, Then what we talked about is you have to be effective with it and then tailor it to the needs of the audience where it provides a perceived value and that value. 00;18;40;10 - 00;19;09;24 David gave a good example in his area of the industry. It's very specific. Security is no joking matter. So you have to make sure that you're still abiding by the facts or the the common issues that will help others understand it while you're doing it for you. And make it relevant. Even though, you know, like David was saying, there's things that sometimes people will read or won't read, but it's there if they need it. 00;19;10;03 - 00;19;27;22 I think that's the key especially when you're putting in the effort and you're working with others. And there is going to be a need at some point to understand what's going on, to be truthful we don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on, if that makes sense. 00;19;27;22 - 00;19;31;02 We just have to pick our times. And when we're looking for those updates. 00;19;32;07 - 00;19;58;23 You're spot on. Chris, I'd like to bring up another point on, you know, sometimes being visible, you know, kind of documenting things, sharing it is some some people actually may fear this, but it's actually one of the most important things is if you're not visible and you're not sharing it and being public about it, then you often can miss what you may be doing wrong or that you may be working on the wrong things or you may be focused on the wrong priorities. 00;19;59;10 - 00;20;18;28 And when you're overly visible about things, it's really easy to get feedback in people. We will not say, no pun intended, they'll attack it. Right. Those are things you want to know about can you imagine? We've seen people throughout their careers is that, hey, they're working on something for three or six months and then time comes to review cycle or other things. 00;20;19;15 - 00;20;37;20 Chris, why in the world are you working on that? No one wants that. And it's well, well, why don't you tell me? I had no idea that's what you're doing, wasting your time on that. And those are so important, right? It's just like mistakes. You want to be open about it, you want to learn from it, but you want people that are very quickly saying you're focusing on the wrong things. 00;20;37;27 - 00;20;48;13 These are the wrong priorities. Why is your attention not you know, when you're focused on X, you want that invite in by being visible at this, it can be a major asset to you. 00;20;49;09 - 00;21;23;26 That's it. So I couldn't help myself there habits, right? If you're the habits of what you do and that's what people see in that consistency, then it becomes more transparent. It becomes easier for others to understand what what's missing. And so if they if they see that there's constant if there's information that's constantly being put out there, that's giving the opportunity to assess the activity in any relationship. 00;21;23;26 - 00;21;53;15 I don't care if it's family or professional or in matters less. I mean, I don't know how many types of other relationships there would be, but it has it depends on the ability to to to communicate effectively if the visibility is going to be key and how you're going to be viewed, then I think from your example where I couldn't help, it is be the habit that means do it consistently, do it sincerely, and then you'll be seen, right? 00;21;53;16 - 00;22;08;10 This is visibility. You'll be seen as somebody that has the discipline to continue and the willingness to receive input because you're putting the information out there, it appears that you'd be willing to receive information that can help everybody be better. 00;22;09;22 - 00;22;29;13 Absolutely. You know, I think is like I know Chris, you're probably, you know, followers on a number of people on TikTok and Instagram reels and things like that. Right. Well, you're following the people who are pretty consistent with their content, right? You don't you're not the, you know, following people. They're just one, you know, video hits, right? You're following the people are consistent and things you like and you're continue to follow them at the same time. 00;22;29;13 - 00;22;36;08 Those people know when they go off kilter, right? They're going to know very, very quickly and get that feedback. And this is what it's all about. 00;22;37;17 - 00;23;08;29 The personal algorithms, I guess, is the way to say that. It's with that consistency, people know what to expect and I think that's key, right? It becomes a dependency that because of what you're able to provide and you're demonstrating the consistency that allows people to know who to go to. Right. So ultimately, I think we've lost a number of steps here to key in on because we're we're doing a couple of trajectories on the side, what we can do and how we can do it. 00;23;09;23 - 00;23;41;24 But how you're seeing through that dependency that that consistency allows people to when an opportunity comes up, they're going to think of you. And I think that's what we're talking about here is mostly as you're making we call it networking call making connections, you can be socializing. It matters less. The point is when you're connecting with other people, regardless of the reason, hopefully it's sincere and it's less self-serve thing in the sense of it's always in it for you, more so it's in it for you so you can help the team, which is different. 00;23;42;25 - 00;24;07;09 I think the thing that the consider is as you're going through, people understand who their go to is. If it's in a particular area you've developed over the years, that you've become a very specific you know, subject matter expert in these critical areas you'll be thought of. And so if you're project based in a project comes up because not all the projects are the same, but when one does and they think of you, that's the point. 00;24;07;09 - 00;24;37;03 And the way they think of you is through that consistency of being able to be an effective communicator, it's tailoring your information to somebody or anybody. So they have an ability to piece things together over time because it's not the one hit wonder that we're after. It's over time they're able to see these little nuggets and then piece together a little puzzle that says That's the puzzle of somebody that has these skills, these attributes, these elements that I want to be I want to include as a part of the team to help me accomplish what I need to do. 00;24;37;04 - 00;24;55;24 Now, Chris, I'd like to take it to the next level, right? I think about the consistency of the visibility. And, you know, I think from an element of leadership is when you have the visibility, you have the consistency, you have that audience, right? Then you have the opportunity to drive an agenda, to drive a direction, to drive a strategy, right? 00;24;56;00 - 00;25;17;00 Because now you have a natural followers. You have natural listeners. Right. And very carefully. Right. I'm not saying that from a malicious perspective, but like people like you can actually start driving an agenda in a direction and a strategy now because of that, that voice. And so it's just like, you know, singers or music music, you can slightly kind of take things in a slightly different direction. 00;25;17;08 - 00;25;30;11 You can send a message, right? You can push in certain topics, right? And it's amazingly how powerful that can be when you build that visible, consistent, you know, kind of audience and message. 00;25;32;16 - 00;26;11;12 You hear that that was the can you just opened on driving change. So as we sit here and we talk about things through observation that we experience and we want to now influence a different way of doing things, being driving change, change management or anything to influence different outcomes because you've presented yourself in a way where people trust it, they find you to be a dependable contributor, selfless in the sense of wanting to serve the greater good or the greater team, the organizational goals, having a right construct and value systems, they start to trust you if you're able to. 00;26;11;12 - 00;26;43;25 Now, put together the information and have it point towards something that will help deliver even better results through ideas, sharing now you have a seat at the table. You're right. I think this is one of those things that, you know, you're able to truly understand the depth of its power. As you mentioned, and then leverage that not to exploit it, but you want to actually leverage it to be able to help others rally around your ability to see things differently and then now contribute in in bigger ways. 00;26;44;11 - 00;27;05;08 Absolutely. You know, another element of this I maybe should have mentioned earlier is that let's think about some of the great leaders right? You know, in our work thinking about in life and thinking about in the military. Right. And so I know your favorite historical general in the Army was, you know, patent right. Is that do people love leaders that are just completely opaque? 00;27;05;14 - 00;27;24;08 You have no idea how they make decisions. They have no idea what their principles are. You have no idea on what their agenda is. It's pretty hard to do. But when they're very when they're very open, transparent and clear, right on where they're going, what the goals are, how we're going to do things right. People, it's so much easier to follow is so much more motivating and it's so much more productive. 00;27;24;08 - 00;27;29;10 Right. And that's what because they're visible, they're visible, open and they're transparent. 00;27;30;05 - 00;27;57;11 You know, and relevant. And then there's more we can add on to that. But if you're all of those things and in my mind could be a timing thing, but either way, maybe you don't get looked at the same. So let's briefly cover that. So immediate gratification now that we have these these contributing factors, you know, I'm I'm understanding my dynamic, my my environmental dynamic, right where I am, either in the workplace or in the community, it matters less. 00;27;58;13 - 00;28;23;10 I'm learning how to present myself. We talked about personal branding. That's a form of communication. I'm presenting myself to be a valued member of society, of the team, of the organization. I'm communicating effectively. I'm identifying what the leaders within that community needs to see in order to have what they need to be successful in driving mission and moving things forward. 00;28;24;09 - 00;28;46;00 I'm getting better at that. I'm practicing and I'm more consistent now. I want something in return. What are your thoughts on. Well, David, I want it tomorrow. I want it today. If I'm doing all of these things you told me last week and I'm doing it right, I want to get what I'm deserving today. My thoughts on that. 00;28;46;18 - 00;29;06;17 Yeah, great question. And I always like the answer. Back with the question. Right. So it's just kind of going back to a manager, right? He was saying your manager, your script level, your organization saying that instead of seeing a statement like I'm having this amazing impact on the organization or on customers, I always ask the question, is this the most important thing to our customers? 00;29;06;25 - 00;29;28;07 Is this the most impactful project in our entire organization? You know, question mark at the end about? And then basically because you've asked the question, there has to be an answer or someone will drive an answer. No, David, that is, you are worthless. No, David, you're not working on the right things. No, David, you know that's the wrong priorities or it is it is amazing. 00;29;28;07 - 00;29;50;03 Right? So it's getting a little of that visibility and validation. Right. You know, on that. And sometimes but you never assume like, you know, Seinfeld never assume. We'll leave it at that. But the element is you want to validate and sometimes you validate not my making statements by asking questions. And they will devise some answers. And then you can realize, oh, I am working on something important. 00;29;50;03 - 00;30;01;12 I'm going to keep focused on this or no, maybe I'm working on the wrong things and taking the wrong approach. And that's just as important as, you know, driving. You need to get the communication feedback. 00;30;02;05 - 00;30;24;21 To great Segways and can't say that they're closely aligned to the visibility compartment, but I guess maybe they could be. We'll make it that way. Why? Because you and I are driving the narrative in this conversation, so validation the point of that is to make sure that you're on track. We're confirming, you know, hey, here's what I'm seeing of what you're delivering. 00;30;25;04 - 00;30;50;15 I'm observing or you're intentionally providing me this information in my best in the best of my ability, in my position are my view how I play a role in this particular relationship. Here's what I'm saying needs to happen. Great job here. Needs a little bit of work there or something. Else. And then the second thing you say, well, questions, it's more discovery. 00;30;50;24 - 00;31;14;28 Great. Thanks for giving me that information. Here's my question or here are my questions. I think this is probably a separate podcast in itself. How to ask the right question. But if you think about that dialog that's occurring after that, now you're beginning to understand how the relationship element is supposed to work through the visibility characteristic or that action. 00;31;15;13 - 00;31;38;02 You're providing information, you're providing visibility to others on what you're doing, and it's either delivered in the actions or the written form or through word of mouth. At some point, there's follow ups that need to occur because that's going to now get into the depth of what's really needing to happen for it to continue to move forward. Otherwise it becomes stagnant. 00;31;38;02 - 00;31;45;15 Like most things untouched, it becomes stagnant and then it loses its relevancy. Why? Because it's out of the time of when it was relevant. 00;31;45;26 - 00;32;05;18 Yep. I think we always have to ask the hard questions, and I am excited to, you know, that Will, you know, that's probably our next podcast, right? But you know, they validation is that is this having is this having the same expected results between what I think and you think or the team thinks, right? And in asking people that and be open about that and being ready for that feedback. 00;32;05;18 - 00;32;27;07 Right. And I think that is really helps you to know by being visible, helps you to know are you prioritizing properly, are you investing the right way in a way, those type of things. And I think many people don't understand that that's sometimes the most important task they can in being visible is asking questions. 00;32;28;16 - 00;33;02;02 Yeah, I think I think, you know, and maybe in closing here we're going to want to down with some of these these thoughts if you're not driving your visibility for yourself, of course, learning how to do it effectively like we talked about somebody else to do it for you. Right. That's the thing. If you're if you're sincerely and organically putting in the right work the right way, understanding that we aren't perfect and we make mistakes and we fail and you know, some decisions because they're uninformed or for whatever reason, too risky and doesn't land where we wanted it to. 00;33;02;02 - 00;33;29;10 And, you know, we have to pull back and reassess. If you're not going to advocate for yourself to start with, then you have to invest an enormous amount of trust into somebody who will. But then you become dependent on somebody's ability or willingness to be able to do that. And when it doesn't align with the timelines, don't complain because the factor is, is you're not doing enough on your own to be able to push out what people need to see from you so they can see you. 00;33;29;29 - 00;33;50;21 Increase their spot on. And it comes back to the word, I think, not just visibility, but execution. Right. And, you know, it will lead me to, you know, this podcast, you know, book recommendation. Right. You know, to have solid execution. Right. You need a visibility. Right. And execution is really the discipline of getting things done. So, you know, book by, you know, Larry Cassidy and Ram Sharon. 00;33;50;21 - 00;34;11;17 Right. Is that how can you execute on a strategy? How can it execute and mission if you're not visible and don't communicate? It's a spot. That's exactly what's going on here. Right. And so I think that's part of our our mission as part of our responsibility is to be visible. Right. And it's also our opportunity to lead. Right. 00;34;11;17 - 00;34;13;25 By being visible and encouraging others to do the same. 00;34;14;14 - 00;34;41;13 Right. Yeah. And we can unpack that all day. The type of leadership, the styles of leadership the the the type of leadership, informal, formal, everybody is at some point influencing something. So that can be, by a loose definition, a leader right, wrong or indifferent. It's a fact. You just want to you want to be more you want to be geared more towards the right way to do it than just being reckless in how you're making decisions and including people. 00;34;41;13 - 00;35;04;02 Because just because you want it to be something different than the sincerity, right? The role is you're well, we just talked about your influencing others in a way that has them making decision. So if you're doing it the wrong way, it is the wrong way because you're not doing it for the right reasons. And I know I'm being cryptic in that, but not so much. 00;35;04;02 - 00;35;17;03 I think everybody will understand the context of it is you got to put effort into doing things that carry high moral ground and value systems. So it's bringing people together then then eventually leading people apart. 00;35;18;08 - 00;35;34;06 You know, Chris, I think that's a great summary. At the same time, I think people are going to have lots of questions, you know, on, on this area. And I think that's probably should be our next podcast is really what type of questions to ask and how to ask great questions. And I look forward to meeting up and discussing that next. 00;35;34;22 - 00;35;52;15 Likewise. Yeah. It's great to get on these and do these seemingly quick hits, but this wasn't so quick. I mean, we actually we did ramble for quite some time here and I think it was good. I think we got hopefully covered the ground we wanted to. So, David, it's always a pleasure to have you here talking about these things. 00;35;53;11 - 00;35;59;11 Yeah, thanks, Chris. And I really enjoy, you know, getting the feedback from the community as there as our listener base grows. 00;36;00;04 - 00;36;03;25 Yeah. So give us feedback. All righty. One, keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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Communicating for Impact 29:25

1 year29:25

29:25

Why should I invest my time in it? Who is this person and what is expected of me? Communicating for impact is our topic today and we cover the importance of recognizing the things we should focus on to bring value to others. We all may relate to the challenges we face when we’re trying to influence others. As we mentioned in our previous podcast regarding relationships, one of the most important steps we can take is to prepare. Being mindful of our purpose, what we want from each interaction, and what do others need to commit to our requests. Listen in as we cover the basics on steps to consider for becoming an asset to others through communication. We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. David Cross @MrDBCross on X -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;29;01 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle. 00;00;29;07 - 00;00;47;06 Why should I invest my time in it? Who is this person and what is expected of me? Communicating for impact is our topic today, and we cover the importance of recognizing the things we should focus on to bring value to others. We all may relate to the challenges we face when we're trying to influence others. And as we mentioned before in our previous podcast regarding relationships. 00;00;47;10 - 00;01;04;08 One of the most important steps we can take is to prepare. Being mindful of our purpose and what we want from each interaction is to see what others need to commit to our requests. Listen in as we cover the basics on steps to consider for becoming an asset to others through communication, we have all we need to become the person we want to be. 00;01;04;09 - 00;01;23;11 Let's remember how to connect with others when sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David, what's happening? 00;01;23;28 - 00;01;30;10 Chris, I've been waiting for you because I've no patience when it comes to doing these podcasts, so here we are. 00;01;30;21 - 00;01;45;18 I appreciate your patience. That's actually a form of what we're going to talk about today to say I'm sorry I'm late. You now say something to the end of thank you for your patience. Communicating for impact. That's what we're talking about today. 00;01;46;10 - 00;02;07;01 It's a big topic is very, very important. Right. And certainly one of the things that I've kind of stressed over the years and been one of my my major attributes is right. Is communication right. And going back to my days at Microsoft. Right. They had to think we program the Bill Gates and I spent spend a lot of time on it. 00;02;07;01 - 00;02;26;28 But I actually Bill Big Gates every year we do these things. We papers. In one year, I was awarded one of the top 30 papers of the year to Bill Gates. And what was it about? It was all about success in a distributed teams and the success that I found after my experience working overseas as an expat was it's all about communication. 00;02;27;05 - 00;02;35;09 That is how you can make a team successful. That's how you can be successful. And it's one of the most important things that people forget about, especially even in the high tech industry. 00;02;36;01 - 00;03;03;18 Yeah, that's a good point. I think it's one of those things taken for granted where we often think that one would assume, you know, what I'm talking about, and that's based off of, again, perception based reality PR or PR. I guess is a nice little acronym, but maybe trademark that I think a lot of what plays into that is there's an assumption right out of the gate and we we draw these conclusions based off of those assumptions from some reference. 00;03;04;03 - 00;03;31;12 Right. Were you recalling an experience that you've had to say, I'm speaking with the senior vice president today? I assume he knows what I'm what I'm talking about. So I'll start with X or I'm I'm guessing she's heard what I've what I've come to talk about. So I'll start with, you know, this. And we and we conclude these things and we approach oftentimes approach the situation with that assumption. 00;03;32;05 - 00;03;57;12 And there's a disconnect. I mean, there's often a disconnect because we also have to, you know, introduce these these phrases of, you know, well, let's take a step back. You know, these trendy phrases that people saying, well, if you're getting to that point, it's probably safe to say that you could have done it differently, probably even say you could have done it better if you stop assuming that people in the roles that they're in know what it is that you're trying to achieve. 00;03;58;27 - 00;04;28;23 I think you're spot on. And certainly I think your favorite character in Seinfeld, Kramer, says, like, you never assume, right? I'm not going to draw it on a board. Y you never assume right? But we remember that. And I think it's actually one of the relevant challenges, especially now that we're operating electronically and virtually right you know, working from home, working remotely, email slack teams, those type of things, is that it's easy to assume that your target of communication has the full context that you do. 00;04;29;06 - 00;04;35;04 But that's actually one of the biggest mistakes and risks yeah. 00;04;35;24 - 00;04;52;23 And there's a process. So in the, in that you've mentioned that you have the 30 papers, you, you had one, but can you maybe walk us through some of the things you did to prepare and through through your experiences to be able to kind of narrow down how do you start to think about communicating for impact? 00;04;53;13 - 00;05;19;16 So one of the things I learned about especially distributed teams, certainly here at Oracle and Google, Microsoft, all the company's been at right is we're very distributed. It's we're not one side Right. And a big part of being successful from a leadership perspective, you know, from an engagement perspective, from, you know, from a good operational perspective is about communication and so I go back to my days of high school drama. 00;05;20;12 - 00;05;56;05 It is that, well, you have to announce CAA, take your word and exaggerate your emotions when on the stage now because otherwise people may miss what you're trying to say. But it applies to business as well is so that you actually need to overcommunicate, especially in a distributed world. What I did and I learned many years ago this may be go back and to be, you know, almost like gosh, almost 15 years ago I write a weekly mail. 00;05;56;23 - 00;06;06;10 It's called that weekly dossier. It's not a newsletter. It's not a status mail because what do people do with newsletters and status matters? Chris, what do you do when you see one. 00;06;07;08 - 00;06;08;25 To that have a. 00;06;08;25 - 00;06;09;13 Tendency. 00;06;09;13 - 00;06;10;06 To ignore it? 00;06;10;06 - 00;06;33;09 Yeah, exactly. That's why it's called the dossier. Now, what I do for all my teams is for my team, for other groups that I work with, you know, stakeholders and things like that. I write a weekly mail, same format, same time every Friday I send it out. It's got news, it's got the information, it's got decisions. What the team is doing, it builds this musical rhythm, the drumbeat with everyone. 00;06;33;10 - 00;06;54;02 So they always know what's going on. And people ask, David, What's going on with X? Or Did you make a decision on why? I always have one answer. Did you read the dossier? And then people almost get addicted to this. And it's very, very important, especially in these distributed environments, and how you can build this rhythm and connection using communication that everyone can rely upon. 00;06;54;07 - 00;07;01;11 And it's amazing of the impact that you can have about how effective you can be. And it's all about communication. 00;07;02;17 - 00;07;27;04 It is and even then, right? So it's kind of breaking it down. So credibility, I think, plays a part in that. Right? And so we joked a little bit about newsletter, but maybe not, but if you're receiving something from somebody, you know, it becomes now a value proposition is what I'm receiving from somebody a from somebody that I find to be a value to me and there's levels to that. 00;07;27;04 - 00;08;03;24 And then it's saying, well, if it is a box check. Yep. And you say, well, what is it? Then again, the content now is, you know, you, you associate it the value and say, well, is this something that I'm going to invest in reading? So we talk to you and I talk. The last episode that you and I got together on was about relationships and we and we blew through a bunch of different scenarios that established now a point to where, you know, you individual with other individuals or a group of people have established a certain level of understanding with each other form relationship, the type of relationship matters. 00;08;03;24 - 00;08;35;22 Well, if the type of relationship is allowing you to now find each other to be credible or bringing some value, then you would invest in that. And I think that's part of this other effect of communication is the investment. Do I want to invest time in what is being delivered? So have you ever experienced in anything that you've done, David, where you thought that you had that level of understanding with the relationship to be able to communicate like that and you found it to be different than what you had expected? 00;08;36;11 - 00;09;02;21 Absolutely. I think this is, you know, coming back to our are a note about assuming things, right? Is if you fire off a communication, whether it's verbal or an email, a slack message, those type of things, is that in sometimes when it's virtual or electronic, you're maybe not you may not be receiving the indicators is how you're communicating when is being received right? 00;09;02;29 - 00;09;28;26 Is it being understood? Is it actually being perceived the wrong way? Are you offending someone and this is one of the challenges as well with communication. It's not just about the sending. It's also the receiving and understanding that and this is important that you need to ask is did did I send makes sense. Did is the information I'm providing of value to you? 00;09;30;09 - 00;10;00;15 Is it do you have any feedback? Right. In communication? And I think it's when we're in person, we have the visual clues and other things. It's much easier to understand oh, it's clearly my communication is a value and being received warmly or no, I'm created a problem. And I think that's one of the things you always have to check are in different types of virtual and electronic communication is you may not have that asynchronous or that, you know, the dual, you know, kind of feedback loop yep. 00;10;00;28 - 00;10;32;14 You touched on it, I think, and thanks for introducing that. It's the reading room. So, you know, assumptions, presumptions, and implications, you know, there's some point where we're going to we're going to create a truth for ourselves for whatever reason, in order to make us feel confident and comfortable or to to convince us that there's something else that's needing to shift or pay attention to how we invest in that thought now comes with, you know, being able to understand why, why, why am I doing this? 00;10;32;14 - 00;11;02;16 Why? Well, first of all, why am I communicating? Second is what's my intention or what am I expecting to get out of that communication? And then the next thing is, well, during that communication or that interaction, whether it's the visual, right, whether you're on video or in person, the body language, the environment, you know, there's subtle hints that you can understand based off of being more skilled at recognizing those those alterations in body language and visual aids. 00;11;02;16 - 00;11;28;28 Right. You know, you have to you have to learn what those could indicate. And then then a verbal component to where now like old school stuff where you're on the phone, you can't see anything. You now be connected to the audible component. And the thing about telephony You know, the the roles in which people have live in live in day to day through the phone where they have hundreds of calls a day. 00;11;29;11 - 00;12;08;04 Those are probably the most skilled at being able to recognize how the call is going from that, those putting those reps in to know how am I seeing or how am I hearing something shift and know what to say next. So when when you go through your examples, there's a clear indicator that something didn't go as expected What are some of the elements that now you can incorporate or the skills that you can understand that you either need or maybe emphasize on how to pivot from an expectation when you made that assumption that there was value on the receiving end, but it doesn't appear that it's being received as intended. 00;12;09;00 - 00;12;39;21 Great question. I think one of the things, Chris, is that you're saying being a great communicator means you're a great listener. And I think coming back to your exact point, especially when we don't have the the visual clue sometimes. Right, in just audio. Now, I'll come back to your question in just a moment here. But first, I want to say that coming back to relationships, like you and I know each other very well and we can detect and you know, when there's a change of voice or tone in our voice, because we know it. 00;12;39;21 - 00;12;59;21 Sure. Because we've got a strong relationship. But it's much harder when you don't have a relationship with someone and you don't have visual clues, your only audio. It can be much more difficult. And this is sometimes why people say doing a zoom call or other things, you really want to encourage doing visuals so that you can get to know each other a little bit better because you don't have as much context now coming back to you. 00;12;59;22 - 00;13;18;18 Your other question is being a great communicator. When I say this, being a great listener and this is where questions come into play is if you're if you're expressing you have an unknown audience or an audience you don't have a strong relationship with, or the full context is that you may share information, but then you ask questions right. 00;13;18;18 - 00;13;39;29 And listen, because sometimes you want to say, did did I make sense in what I just said? Does that fact Is that the same fact to your understanding? And you're asking questions and gives you an opportunity to listen, to understand how is the communication being received? Is it coming around with it coming across correctly and those type of things? 00;13;40;26 - 00;14;09;01 You said something right there, the implied self-awareness. So I feel like maybe there's a subset that before you're able to ask the questions, the self-awareness that plays a part, the emotional intelligence that plays a part in recognizing what you're good at. Let's talk a little bit about that really quickly is when who says you're a good communicator? How do you how do you come to realize whether or not you're a good communicator? 00;14;09;26 - 00;14;34;29 Well, you know, it's very thought provoking. I think we in some ways you're a good communicator saying that is then that is when you have lots of listeners and lots of people asking for you to communicate. In some ways, I could say that. Well, I must be doing something. Okay. If I'm having, you know, lots of people sign up to receive my dossier because it's an opt in if no one is signing up to receive it. 00;14;35;00 - 00;14;48;02 And then I'm like, hmm, my communication, it may be faulty or had zero value or doing something wrong. And then you can ask those type of questions So that's very Thought-Provoking, Chris. 00;14;49;00 - 00;15;18;10 Well, thank you. I think it comes from what what you now just again, you're leading us down the path, right? So it goes maybe as Sekulic comes back to who's invested in listening, who is coming to you for help, who is coming to you to ask this questions? Who's coming to you to engage? And if if you can now do a risk assessment and then realize at some point there's got to be some switch that flip to say no. 00;15;18;12 - 00;15;42;06 Maybe a common reality. Right. Somebody might resonate with this. I do it. I mean, it resonates with me because oftentimes I'll reflect and say, hey, I think I'm underutilized or hey, I think I'm not being X, you know, whatever I'm realizing that there's something that isn't making me as busy as maybe I should be or as I think I should be. 00;15;42;22 - 00;16;06;03 I think that's the catalyst to understand. Well, is it a meeting or is it a something else thing? Because the questions that you're saying once you've know, say, graduated to that point to understand that there's questions needing to be asked. I think you have to ask those to yourself first and then you can now qualify yourself to go out and seek understanding. 00;16;07;03 - 00;16;28;13 You know, what is it exactly that I'm trying to get from the things that exist or don't exist? You know, what's the effect of my communication method? What's the effect of my message? All those types of things. And then asking the right questions. So no sidetrack from from the path you were taking us. But how do you how do you come to learn the right questions to ask? 00;16;28;26 - 00;16;30;05 You know, you gave some examples. 00;16;31;03 - 00;16;58;20 You know, the right questions to ask is I think is really about validating or expressing your you know, what you are communicating in a way that people will answer. Right. So in some ways, if you make a statement, right, it's about asking a question about that fact or that information. Right. And that will that really, I would say is false, but it encourages someone to answer saying that. 00;16;59;08 - 00;17;23;01 Does everyone agree that, you know, this this data is correct and that will it will drive. It's like the art of influence that will drive an answer or, you know, and you want to almost you want to state things in a way in a question that that people will want to answer. You know, it's almost trying to be controversial. 00;17;23;01 - 00;17;31;04 Sometimes, right. In that really helps you to draw out that that that feedback that you're looking for. Got it. 00;17;31;09 - 00;17;59;26 So so finding a way and it's I believe that what you're saying is implying that there's an interest. So there's people that are invested to be around each other in order to have the existence you know, without getting overly philosophical is to say you're here. So there seems to be a willingness to be here. So to make it interesting is the types of questions where they have an interest in answering because they're invested in I guess the outcome is the best the best way to say it. 00;17;59;26 - 00;18;24;10 So I mean, I'm thinking conflict resolution, problem solving, brainstorming. You know, at some point people are interested in getting to the bottom of it to come together, which I think is the ultimately the goal is to bring people together to do something, whether it's to have fun or, you know, you know, read the newsletter or the dossier or to solve problems So what is off the top of your head? 00;18;24;10 - 00;18;30;03 What would be a good book that can help us shine light on a path that we can take to learn? 00;18;30;10 - 00;18;54;26 Well, I mean, back to this this session, you know, one is the art of influence, right? And the art of art of influence really provides all these techniques mainly about communication in that how you can get what we say is reciprocity, right? Is you want to do things in a way that forces someone in a respectful, friendly way to return. 00;18;54;26 - 00;19;19;25 Right. Or to respond. Right. And that's a big part of communication, is that when you get people to respond, you know, that they're understanding it or they're accepting it, they're going to value it. The other book I'd like to recommend is, you know, Jerry Weisman presenting to Win. Right. And it's really about the art of telling a story, because sometimes I think people are, you know, can communicate. 00;19;19;25 - 00;19;31;26 But you need to often tell a story, especially when you're trying to have impact. And there's a lot of art and science in that as well. So those are my two recommended recommendations. 00;19;32;15 - 00;19;53;03 That's good. Those are good ones. I've heard of both of them. I think I dabbled in the first one, but the book, the book that I'm referencing in a lot of times in connecting dots, that comes by way of influence. It's a book, The New Science of Leading Change. And there's I think there's a couple I don't I don't remember there being just one author. 00;19;53;03 - 00;20;13;07 I think there's a couple of them that work together on it. But influence are the new science of leading change and in that is connecting dots. So as we're talking about communicating effectively or communicating for impact. You talked about it being a being a good listener includes a lot of different ways of doing that. How you demonstrate doing that. 00;20;13;08 - 00;20;54;29 I mean, sitting there, you know, some skimming off the top of what some suggestions would include would be to, you know, the eye contact. If you're, you know, in front of somebody, you know, the nodding the body language would interpret or try and be translated and assumed to be, oh, they're engaged, they're paying attention. Are there other methods that will kind of go down a level of depth to where you can be credible in being an active listener is, you know, reciting or summarizing something that, you know, so what you're saying David, is this and then I repeat what it is a summary that I've heard you say in a way that resonates with me. 00;20;55;09 - 00;21;26;11 And then it kind of the things that you're looking for when you set it reciprocity. So now I'm relaying it or volleying it back to you, like, this is what I heard. This is how I interpret it. Did I get that right? That is why I bring up influence because it's connecting dots. And I think that's what we're talking about is in the dance that we do of communication, whether it's written or verbal or visual, whatever it is, we're saying something It's it's being able to now reciprocate the level of effort that goes into what's happening. 00;21;26;26 - 00;21;49;28 And we walk away with something of value. And in my way, what I what I love to do is connect the dots and see how critical thinking plays a part in communicating for impact because now we're talking about one thing, but maybe it's now connecting to other things that we've talked about in the past or we should be talking about as as somebody in your position. 00;21;50;08 - 00;21;51;13 How important is that? 00;21;51;23 - 00;22;14;12 It's very, very important trait is that because of often we say we can say we have a loud voice that needs to have lots of impact. If you don't have the validation, you don't have the adoption and understanding, right. That means things can go wrong and awry very, very quickly and very, very, you know, in a very bad way. 00;22;14;13 - 00;22;42;22 Right. And we can see that throughout the world. Where someone says one thing and intended another. And really, well, now they everything's gone wrong. Right. And the perception the choices, the decisions, you know, can go completely off track. And that's why it's so important, I think, to sometimes even test your communication when it's going to be when it's needed to have major impact. 00;22;43;01 - 00;22;49;02 Major results is sometimes you may need to test it before you deploy it into production, if you will. 00;22;49;16 - 00;23;10;21 I like the flow because as you were talking about that, I was thinking, well, what happens next and the test or the impact or the effect comes in, what happens next? So, you know, we we talk about things. You know, we prepare to talk about things. And then through that, through that action, we learn. We're supposed to learn things, right? 00;23;10;21 - 00;23;30;15 I mean, that's the you know, maybe it's an unwritten expectation that, you know, as you go through things, you have lessons learned, hopefully, or mindful enough to appreciate what it is that's being learned or as a possibility, an opportunity to be learned so you can grow so you can get to know each other better so you can do all of these types of things. 00;23;30;15 - 00;24;06;24 But some of the elements also include outside of that moment. So after the newsletter or the dossier sent, after the engagement, after the Zoom meeting, after the on site meeting, after the face to face interaction, whether it's at a coffee shop, or somewhere else, how important is in this scheme of communicating? How important is what happens next? And when do you think the intervals are that you engage with others as you communicate, as the relationship grows? 00;24;08;08 - 00;24;38;16 Well, in some ways, though, I, as I was hinting at earlier, is I try to keep it a regular rhythm, like saying that part of it just like the newspaper or newscast or other things is you want to have a regular rhythm that's very consistent because then people can bet on it, they can count on it, but also it can give you the opportunity to make corrections, corrections or adjustments or pivots so that, for example, if you're if it's a random communication like oh boy, I made a mistake, like, all right, how are you going to correct that? 00;24;38;17 - 00;25;05;07 You know? And then it becomes very obvious and, you know, sometimes damaging in itself versus no, you can always update every week, like, oh, there's been a slight change, but everyone knows that they'll get those updates and that regular format, regular timing, and it's easy to make the errata or the changes or corrections. And that's one of my recommendations is build the rhythm, build the cadence of the music and people will align with that drumbeat. 00;25;06;03 - 00;25;39;23 That that's that's not only a one of the most relevant statements we've made at the moment, considering this is a podcast where listenership, probably as a result of the rhythm in which we deliver these, is an influence on how much activity we can report through the analytics. How often are people listening? Well, the more consistent you are in delivering the more of a repetition, the more repetition that gets into somebody in an expectation. 00;25;39;23 - 00;25;49;19 And so the randomness, I think, is one of those qualifying words that says if it feels random, they'll perceive it as that and probably take less interest. Would you agree? 00;25;50;27 - 00;26;03;26 100% right. If you can bet on something and that's going to be there, you you embrace it, you, you take it on versus it being random. Like I don't know if it's ever going to come back. Why should invest my time in it? 00;26;04;22 - 00;26;29;15 There it is good. All right. So to to summarize. So, you know, communicating for impact, it involves many things, but much of it has to do with an interest and then withdraws the investment. And that comes by way of oversimplifying. It comes by way of being credible or somebody finding value in it, whatever it may be and whomever it comes from. 00;26;30;06 - 00;26;50;08 And then it has to do with the engagement component of saying you know, are you are you listening to what I'm saying? Are you hearing what I'm not saying? Or is there is there an element of where you seem to demonstrate an understanding of me as a as an individual expressing to you what it is that I think we should be talking about? 00;26;50;08 - 00;27;09;19 And then how do you demonstrate the understanding in that comes in many ways, many forms. But, you know, the frequency in which the engagement occurs, I think is as a is a key point, because if you want to keep the momentum going and be relevant with it to respect the interaction, then you'd want to find that rhythm. And that could be different. 00;27;09;20 - 00;27;26;21 It depends on the whole ideal situation. You know, it could be hours, days, months, weeks. It does matter. It just it's relevant to whatever the situation is. And in closing. David, what do you think we can do for next steps to test it, as you say? 00;27;27;12 - 00;27;48;20 I think one of the things that everyone, you know, needs to think about is what is your rhythm? Right. And because some people will be daily, some people weekly, some people are monthly, but I think is build their rhythm right. And within that rhythm, then you say just like everything is like, okay, what is your development cycle? What is your test cycle? 00;27;48;20 - 00;28;04;15 You know, what is your feedback cycle? You know? You know, your release cycle, right? Beta, traditional project management and communication is exactly that. Even though I'd say it's small. What you mean after project management, if you really think about it, when especially things of impact, you want to have a full cycle. 00;28;05;01 - 00;28;33;09 Got it. Spoken like a true developer. I'll take a different twist and just say how you make them feel. You know, so if the test for me and the challenge from all four meet all of you, myself included. David, do you find somebody today that you haven't reached out to check in on them and try to uplift how they feel, try to be a value to them today and then see how you can collaborate in a way that makes a difference in their lives as well as yours? 00;28;34;00 - 00;28;36;03 Fair to say it is. 00;28;36;25 - 00;28;57;26 I think things for summarize are really well. I hope people get some value from this and I'm thinking for our next episode, you know, we're talking about relationships. We talk about communication. But Chris, you brought up earlier and I think we should have a next episode on this about visibly witty, right? The people. You can be the greatest technical person or the greatest, you know, engineer, the greatest, you know, craftsman. 00;28;58;03 - 00;29;08;18 But if you have no visibility then how can you be successful? And then it comes down to relationships and communication. So I think that should be our next episode. 00;29;10;04 - 00;29;20;10 Time. Stay tuned. Same Bat Channel. No. All right, David. No, I think that's on the docket for next. And on that note, keep moving forward.…

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The Importance of Relationships: Make Connections 35:13

1 year35:13

35:13

We can’t do it alone. Relationships are important. There isn’t much else one could say that counters that. In this episode David and I touch on the basics of why we should all work towards understanding the considerations of why we need to develop different types of relationships, how we may approach others with compassion, empathy, and purpose, and what we should include in our toolbox to recognize specific feelings that may occur during this process. We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;29 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle. 00;00;29;10 - 00;00;52;01 We can't do it alone, and we know relationships are important. There isn't much else one could say that counters that in this episode. David and I touch on the basics of why we should all work towards understanding the considerations of why we need to develop different types of relationships, how we may approach others with compassion, empathy, and purpose, and what we should include in our toolbox to recognize the specific feelings that may occur during this process. 00;00;52;01 - 00;01;13;18 We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David Cross. 00;01;13;18 - 00;01;14;14 How's it going, sir? 00;01;15;09 - 00;01;23;12 It has been too long, Chris, that I've been dying to get us going and our next episode is on the podcast and I know the audience has been waiting for us. 00;01;24;09 - 00;01;26;18 We had to take some time. You did a little bit traveling, did you? 00;01;27;14 - 00;01;49;00 You know, I am David Cross Travelers dot com. I do love my travels. And hey, my last big trip, right, was to France and I went to Normandy in Omaha Beach. So definitely check it out. And I will say, as the veteran, right, it's an amazing experience. And I was even able to conduct the, you know, the ceremony at the cemetery that is there. 00;01;49;00 - 00;02;00;16 It Omaha Beach or the Normandy. Right. It's quite an honor. And it's something if you ever have the opportunity, I think as a veterans, it's kind of a place we must all visit that How long do. 00;02;00;16 - 00;02;10;09 You plan that trip? That sounds like something that you had to spend some time thinking about. How are you going to how are you going to go and how long are you going to spend time? Was it much thought or was it last minute? 00;02;11;11 - 00;02;27;02 No, I thought about it for a year. It's one of those things that I didn't make the deal with my wife that she had to visit Paris for the first time. But that I get to visit Normandy for the first time. So we made the deal. And like I said, you know, it's all about relationships and thinking about that. 00;02;27;02 - 00;02;29;11 And, you know, sometimes there's like little give and take. 00;02;29;25 - 00;02;50;07 A little compromise. That's a good segue way. And don't think that I just let you slide over that shameless plug of David Cross travels. That was a good one. You didn't say your blog one yet, though, so we'll wait for that. Relationships. Yep. So, folks, you know, we've been talking about lately a lot of the things that go on. 00;02;50;07 - 00;03;22;23 Right. And so we can look at it from different perspectives, you know, the importance of relationships. Why do you have. And I think both David and I in our own ways, independent of each other. David just alluded to that here. But, you know, you have you have you have some categories that you're split relationships up in to say, oh, it's a work relationship or it's my, you know, my circle of five where it's my closest friends or my closest The board of directors, you know, there's types of relationships that we're going to we're going to talk through today. 00;03;23;11 - 00;03;42;08 And and maybe just kind of well, we're just going to talk about them because the value is relative to the perception of you and how and how you can understand things for you. Maybe some nuggets, maybe not. But it's just one of those banter podcasts for this episode. So, David, I don't know, where do you want to start? 00;03;43;06 - 00;03;58;21 I don't know, Chris. There's always, you know, as being our veteran podcast or even rights. I trust veterans. But I think an element let's think about the relationship that we've built, you know, from the military. Right. And how that affects our lives, how it affects our relationships and going forward. Why don't we start there? 00;03;59;12 - 00;04;21;28 Yeah, it's a good one. Let's talk about you. Me, right. So you're you're a senior vice president in cybersecurity. Or in security? You and I met a couple of years ago, not through our own doing. We were put together based off of the relationship we had with our passion, which is veteran affiliated focus. And then through MAVEN, military affiliated, better employee network. 00;04;23;10 - 00;04;45;25 We have roles and positions. And so my role to help lead that with a strong team. You were also brought in from an executive sponsor to support us in the in that capacity. And so from that couple of years ago, we drove some some solid initiatives that set a good foundation for others to now continue on with relationship building. 00;04;45;25 - 00;05;07;07 Right. We we've given a good ground for relationship building in the network and then yours in mind evolved into, well, what can you and I can do further to further that which leads to this podcast. And we've randomly, not randomly, but you know, at certain intervals we'll keep in touch and check in and say, what are we doing? 00;05;07;08 - 00;05;23;07 Let's do this. And like today was somewhat spontaneous, you know, but I didn't that start with expectations maybe. You know, clearly we were introduced I didn't have an expectation of meeting you. I had an expectation on the role that you were in that evolved into other things. What about you? 00;05;24;18 - 00;05;40;15 Well, Chris, I think I think that I did have an expectation to a degree is saying here I am joining a veterans related group. Right. In that expectation, what can I expect from you? Right. And so that I said, well, we were not in the service together. We're not in the same unit together. We're not in the same war together yet. 00;05;40;16 - 00;05;59;10 But we're both veterans. Right. And so an expectation of what are your principles right? How are we going to operate? Right. The natural sign, I think, is just like when our active duty, you know, even your Army, Navy, Air Force, we know how to operate in that. You now have this great baseline of how we start and operate. 00;05;59;20 - 00;06;09;27 And that's a major advantage I think sometimes veterans have with each other and others are members of the service and it builds a relationships to the next level and different relationships. 00;06;11;17 - 00;06;31;19 Yeah, because so so it so it comes with the expectations and if you have a significant other a partner or a friend, a close friend or family member, you know, we we hear this often is like no expectations. You know, I'm I'm with you. No expectations. There are some and you talked a little bit about the value systems and things like that. 00;06;31;19 - 00;07;07;19 There's some things that are just assumed and taken for granted. That generally speaking, we don't want to hold somebody to to our perspective. And so we we hopefully allow others to be themselves and that's part of the relationship, the good with the bad, you know, if you're going to use an example. And but when you're brought together unexpectedly, you know, that openness to to have that flow begin of the dialog, the connections, you know, in this case, you mentioned the commonality stripping away the other factors that were less important at the moment. 00;07;07;23 - 00;07;25;26 You said, well, we're veterans. We don't have a lot of these other things in common, but we do have that and that's where we'll start. And I think that's the one of the key elements as we kind of just go through the idea of what a relationship definition could mean to everybody is commonality. What do we have in common? 00;07;27;01 - 00;07;44;00 What do you think some of the challenges are in getting to that part to where you can strip away the other factors of wants and needs from an individual perspective and saying, I want I want to talk to that person because of whatever, or I need to talk to that person for whatever. Or you just bump into somebody and you didn't want to talk to them. 00;07;44;00 - 00;07;47;29 You didn't need to talk to me. Did you expect it? What do you think some of the caveats are? 00;07;49;07 - 00;08;05;19 Great question. You know, I think an element is that sometimes you think about it, it's like what's the icebreaker? How do I get my foot in the door? You know, how do I open up the conversation? And sometimes when you don't know somebody, you don't know actually how to do the opening, right? Sometimes that's what things adventure's like. 00;08;05;23 - 00;08;23;13 Okay, we have some commonalities. I can start with something. I could say, hey, you're in the army. Great. Now, I was like, Oh, what unit were you in? Oh, great. Instantly, you've got a starting point with knowing nothing else, right? Other times you've been meeting that. Well, let's say we're not even we're not veterans like. All right, Chris, what do you do? 00;08;23;13 - 00;08;44;27 Right. Okay, you do you watch movies, you know, it gets awkward, uncomfortable, right? Because you're guessing what to do. And I think part of it as people is, is maybe sometimes just like networking or trying to get a job, do some research. Well, is Chris on LinkedIn? Oh, is he on other social media oh, he's a fan of movies. 00;08;44;27 - 00;08;53;26 Ah. Oh, no, he's a golfer. Oh, great. Now I have an opening to Chris and you go golfing this past weekend. Wow. What an opener. And that's what it's all about. 00;08;55;16 - 00;09;29;05 Yeah. You learn, you learn something about somebody so that the idea that you can, you know, one, be mindful enough to realize that you might have to do put some effort into the beginning. Right. And nothing is easy, I guess it's safe to say is starting a conversation until you practice, right? You have to kind of do it frequently and often in similar scenarios to build the confidence to be able to know that you're going into it unexpected in the outcomes, but just trying something and then going from there. 00;09;29;05 - 00;09;53;29 So fluidity, I think is another factor that weighs into that. So you started it, you had an initiation, now you started the conversation and being fluid on the on the response to now what that is what are some of the things that happen in, in, in your space in doing that? Because you're in your role, in your professional role, it's is it become somewhat of an expectation that you do networking of too often? 00;09;55;04 - 00;10;12;29 Yeah, it's very, very important I think is certainly in the security space. And my role is really to be able to make a connection with customers. I think one of the things I certainly found here at the company is that you need to build a community because especially it comes to security. It's about trust and so how can you trust someone when it's opaque? 00;10;13;09 - 00;10;36;25 You need to have transparency and openness. You need to have a connection. And so part of it is like you may have to start building those connections and building a community, you know, and starting the conversation sometimes can be challenging. But that's how the security community is successful is by building the connections, by sharing information. And I think that's very similar to what you're describing with relationships, right? 00;10;37;06 - 00;10;47;17 I think, of course, you think about recruiting, right? You know, how do you get someone that is maybe not interested in your company to even have a conversation with you? What's your trick? 00;10;48;21 - 00;11;15;17 Yeah, that's that's that's a good one. It's something that's acquired. I pause there because it's a hard it's a hard question, right? It can be you can easily respond to that with something because you have an incentive. And so now your goal. So you're if you're if you're goal minded and you're you orientate to say, well, here's what I'm going to get out of it in that specific capacity, then there's your driver. 00;11;15;17 - 00;11;48;14 And now you know that you have to do something regardless because you can't you can't get what you need to earn unless you do. So I think there's I'm going to answer that in to two ways. One in a recruiting element, right? Or when you're trying to get something from something you have a motive. The thing, though, that I can say with with all honesty is the transparency and the sincerity manifest itself in the things that you do before you even say anything. 00;11;48;23 - 00;12;27;27 Right. Your approach to body language, just your general being, I think. And this it's maybe weird to say, but I think it's just a matter of, you know, some people will see that and immediately just not be interested in beginning the conversation. Let, let, let alone reciprocating anything that you're going to try to do. So I think what wins is realizing that part, which is the second component is getting getting yourself to understand how to be sincere and genuine in what you're trying to do for the right reasons, because I think that's the language that you can't necessarily speak verbally unless you share it. 00;12;28;10 - 00;12;49;17 And then it then it becomes then and then there's a risk there because then it's not it's probably less humble if you say it versus just be it. So I think, you know, the way the way that I think about approaching people to want them to come be a part of something, the tribal component, which I think we all want in some capacity, we want to belong to something. 00;12;49;22 - 00;13;04;28 That's the connection. And I think that's the thing that gets me to understand more about how to do something is because it's going to be that connection that you talked about earlier, what you call it a commonality. But there's a kind of a human connection that allows us to be at least for that moment, interested in the same things. 00;13;05;07 - 00;13;23;07 I have something that I want to share with you because I think it's good for you and we can we can we should talk about it and then that becomes the second component is because now that you have that engagement, you know, you certainly need to hold the conversation to be able to communicate effectively, to share the goodness that you want to share. 00;13;24;12 - 00;13;40;19 Yes. Let me build upon that. Going back to I think our relationship is a we're veterans and ultimately is in the military to say, what's the mission what's the target? And so when I didn't know you, I said, Chris, what's our mission? What are we going to do? Right. Once we know that, like, okay, we have a common goal, we're going to go after it. 00;13;41;05 - 00;13;59;11 Now let's put it aside. We're not the veterans. We're not military saying, all right, what is the person's mission? Might be a little hard or just really figure out what's in it for them when you understand what's in it for them. What are they looking for? And that's the target. That's what you're going after. And understanding that right is really what it's all about. 00;13;59;24 - 00;14;07;08 And when you do that, then you can really align and build a relationship because you may help them achieve that mission, that goal, that target. 00;14;08;18 - 00;14;29;00 Yeah. What's in it for them? That's good. So that's that's a simplified way of sharing the same idea. So that's what that's what David's good about when we have this relationship. So how do you how do you understand that? What's in it for them? You got to be curious. And I think that's the other element is at some point you're going to be more curious than not, whereas before you're probably not looking at it. 00;14;29;00 - 00;14;52;12 The mindfulness is not the thing. It's part of your life because of whatever reason, you just you just focus on different things. I think it's a life stage thing. So when you're curious about that, that interest in seeing what's in it for them, you have to learn what it is, right? And that's the engagement part, right? So what I get excited about is being able to engage with people just for the pure, simple fact of it's an engagement that's it. 00;14;52;12 - 00;15;24;01 I don't I no longer have an ulterior motive unless it's driven towards an observation that screams to me that maybe in this interaction they could benefit from something else. I know I benefit from it. I already accepted the fact that I'm going to walk away better feeling good about talking to somebody else. Because you have to. Right. In order to feel like you're a part of something, you have to it's one of those social animals that you just naturally do. 00;15;24;03 - 00;15;43;29 There's variations can only be careful here, variations of that, the levels of intensity and how you do that. You know, I mean, we can talk about how you're, you know, extroverted, introverted and all these personality types and things like that. There's certain levels to that. I'm just saying for you, how it makes you feel is also just as important because that keeps driving you towards wanting to do it. 00;15;45;04 - 00;15;59;22 So, Chris, this makes me want to ask you a question about is what you're describing. Isn't that just like paying it forward? Right. Is like whether you're trying to help someone connect with someone, are you just really the real the principle of you pay it forward because you never know in the future when you may need something in return? 00;16;01;04 - 00;16;26;03 Yeah. Yes. Yes. Always looking behind you and around you to see if there's something you can do for others. Absolutely. I mean, ultimately, that's that's most of where the joy comes is doing for others. But it's also having the understanding that, you know, when you do that, you're actually doing something for yourself. But the key is to not get caught up in how it benefits you. 00;16;26;03 - 00;16;34;06 I think that's the trick and understanding that paying it forward shouldn't surround and how you feel about it as much as it how it makes others feel. 00;16;35;02 - 00;16;52;20 Absolutely. You know, going back to, you know, what my first job is, I left the military. My first manager is he said, you know, David the most valuable thing you can always do is make other people feel great and other people feel great, make other people great helping them. And because you never know when the time comes, when you need the help, you need the leg up. 00;16;52;20 - 00;17;22;06 Right? You need the army picked up off the ground. Right. And is building up these set of cards over time is is quite enormous. Right. And I think that's what everyone should think about, right? It's not a debt that you're paying. It's actually a credit that you're building. It's quite amazing when the unexpected happens or the unknown happens or an opportunity happens and you realize, oh, my gosh, that person that I helped, you know, five years ago, ten years ago, and I need something there for me. 00;17;22;12 - 00;17;26;29 And they're so willing because they remember what you did for them. And that's what relationships are all about. 00;17;27;27 - 00;17;50;29 Yeah. The people remember how you made them feel. That's certainly an element that that speaks volumes. The you know, the interesting part in all of this I think the underlying factors, everybody needs something from somebody. Right. But if I could say this and have it makes sense, that would be great. You don't have to say it out loud, right? 00;17;50;29 - 00;18;17;16 You don't have to say it. We all need something from somebody. So if we're working and it's a work relationship and I have to go to somebody else, some people will say, you know, don't, don't, don't go to somebody else only when you need something. That's a fair point. Unless that's the type of relationship that you have that it's grown to be that way to where you've already gone through the bumps of building a relationship, forging the relationship in ways that allows that to be the case. 00;18;18;04 - 00;18;52;03 Or you increase the risk of it just being one of those things that now people will avoid. Right? You could be that person that people avoid. You only come to me when you need something and that's it's one of these books that we talk about. That's the taker, right? That's somebody that's a taker. There's giver and taker. So I think there's that that element of humility that goes with that, too, where there's at least a common understanding that how you're going to leverage your relationship with the individual for the type of relationship you have, that it can be that because reality is we all need something from somebody we just don't want to keep. 00;18;52;03 - 00;18;54;14 Like what you're saying, keep taking money out of the bank. 00;18;55;17 - 00;19;26;28 You know, another angle on that is sometimes I think I never want people to fear of being a taker asking for things because I actually one of my observations over many years in the studio space the the high tech space, whatever it is, people are often hesitant to ask for help. They're hesitant to ask a question. And sometimes the I say the weakest person or the people that could could actually be the most successful are the ones that asked for the life ring. 00;19;26;28 - 00;19;41;05 They ask for help. And I think we should encourage that, is that there's the takers that are taking advantage of things. And those are the people that really should be takers because they just need to ask for it, ask for help. And that's how our company can be successful when people help each other. 00;19;41;21 - 00;20;08;12 Yeah, that's a good one. So let's unpack that a little bit. So one mindfulness is key. We've mentioned it a couple of times. Self-awareness from mindfulness, you get the self-awareness of recognizing who those people are and that comes with now a developed skill to be able to recognize how you can help somebody come out of that. Right. And that's what I was kind of inferring earlier, where some people just aren't naturally you know, outgoing. 00;20;08;12 - 00;20;33;09 And so it takes a little nudging. That's, I think, probably built around a lot of what you'd said about trust. Right. And so you know, there's David Brooks had written a book, The Second Mountain, and inside that it's talking about in a relationship and in a related social crisis. And it talks about the loneliness, crisis, distrust, the crisis of meaning and then tribalism. 00;20;33;09 - 00;20;54;02 So there's some elements in here that kind of surround or circle what we're talking about, too, where mental health is a component. You no doubt insecurity or discomfort. You know, there's a lot of folks that that feel like they're going to be in a position when they ask for help. And those are the things. That's why we talk about the circle of trust, right? 00;20;54;02 - 00;21;17;22 The five, five closest individuals that you keep there because it keeps it tight. They know you best. Each one has something that's helping you do something. It's different than the other. It's that kind of a sum of five, if you will, as I've heard some friends call it, that that's a good a good point of saying, you know, how do you recognize when somebody in your relationships is needing something when they're not asking for it? 00;21;19;23 - 00;21;40;29 So kind of building upon the theme here of, you know, our books, because I know our audience love our book recommendations on this month, going to kind of a theme describing here is, you know, people not sure they're you know, maybe not confident in pastor you know, my book of the month recommendation. It was the mastery manual by Robin Sharma. 00;21;41;11 - 00;21;55;00 It's really an amazing book that I highly recommend to everybody in thinking about how do you become to lead? How do you become great right And the mastery manual is is something that I highly recommend to to our audience for this podcast. 00;21;56;20 - 00;22;02;15 Talk a little bit about that. What is that what it's kind of the the Cliff Note version of that. 00;22;04;02 - 00;22;24;07 A big part of it is I think sometimes it's about stepping out. Right. And an element is that you are going to lead, you are going to take charge. Right. You it it's not about being extroverted or introverted, those type of things. It's really about it really kind of everything of setting your goals right is that the element is which I agree with, is like you get up in the morning, right? 00;22;24;07 - 00;22;38;25 Is like, okay, who's the leaders? The people you get up at 5:00 in the morning, and you set your day, you set your schedule. Right. And I think some of the benefits I remember the days of like, yep, when is when is the the roll call wearing and when is the duty section right? 7 a.m. you can't be late. 00;22;39;16 - 00;22;56;05 You're going to get up early. You're going to be prepared for it, giving your uniform all those benefits like David, how how can you be at the top of your game every single day is like, yeah, because I was trained in the military. Right. And it's a big part of it is you have clear goals. You set them down and you go after them, right? 00;22;56;06 - 00;22;59;17 And you build in the structures that you need to achieve that. 00;23;00;24 - 00;23;27;04 Yeah. And so there's some self-actualization that comes inside of that it seems then that, you know, one, you have to figure out what you want to do. There's some of us that still haven't figured out entirely what we want to do. So we're kind of just floating around and then we just, you know, we take opportunities, right? And then we say, well, I don't, I don't know how this is going to turn out, but I'm going to say, yes, and I think that's the other factors. 00;23;27;20 - 00;23;53;01 You know, some of what you're saying is you have to say yes when you're hesitating, when you have doubt. If you've done diligence right. And you're confident enough to say, well, I'm still unsure, but at some point you have to make a move. And so you say yes, and then that would help you be aligned now with outcomes, knowing that that's the self-discovery comes through that exploration after you say yes. 00;23;53;01 - 00;24;18;01 And I think that that's a key element of relationships today. I was having a conversation with one of my friends and she had recommended that I go on LinkedIn and connect with somebody else. And I didn't hesitate. I if you're making the recommendation, I'm going to go do it and I did it. You know, it's, it's a habit that comes, it's formed based off of saying having said yes and the risk assessment, right? 00;24;18;01 - 00;24;35;24 Because you can be risk averse, which is something I learned from David several years ago. On taking you step out of my comfort zone. I consulted with him. I pulled him aside because our relationship was I'm like, hey, you've been doing this, you know, and you have more experience around these areas at this level. What do you think I should do? 00;24;36;11 - 00;24;59;29 And is I the summary is what do it. But we have to remember that sometimes we we need to be risk averse but we don't want to overdo that. So we have to know how we're going to be able to calculate it effectively and then, of course, be ready for what happens after that. And that was one of the greatest advice that I've received from David is, you know, in order to step outside your comfort, you got to say yes. 00;25;00;08 - 00;25;20;09 But you have to understand that the things that happen after that, you're not necessarily going to be able to plan for. So just roll with it enough to be able to understand it and then continue on through it until you're out of it. That way, you can now become more comfortable with making a decision later you're growing. 00;25;21;29 - 00;25;50;07 I think I'm kind of taking this you made me think about it for a minute. That is that we all have relationships and connections, but we also need to nurture them because, you know, over time we never know when's the next time. We may need help, we may need a push, we may need the insights is kind of like we go through phases in our careers or our lives and seeing that of going back and looking at the relationship saying, well, we probably all over time, you know, some of us a little older said 20 years like, oh, I know an expert in this. 00;25;50;07 - 00;26;08;26 I know someone that inspired me in that and when the time comes, you go one, you should nurture and maintain those even if you don't need something yet. But in the future you may. So you also never know. And maybe they need help. They just maybe they're not asking for it. Right? And I think that's a big thing that we should always think about. 00;26;09;02 - 00;26;18;07 Why do you and I, you know, keep our relationship? Right? Because we like we think there's value. We're there. It's great having, you know, your your buddy when the time comes, you've got the backup when you need it. 00;26;19;01 - 00;26;34;08 Yeah, it's a good point. And I like how you said that you never know when somebody else is going to need you. So if you think about that, let's let's ponder this real quick. Do you ever walk in down somewhere, are sitting in your chair? You just you know, doing nothing. You sit in there and then you think of somebody. 00;26;35;14 - 00;26;55;15 I'm always curious as to why that happens. And there's been a time when, you know, I get a phone call and some of us may have had had this happen to you. It's happened to me twice. And I vowed, never have it happen again. And I'm do my best because if it comes up, you answer the phone because you don't know who's on the other end of it. 00;26;55;15 - 00;27;15;17 That's literally a call for help. But the other thing where this intuitiveness for I don't know is called is it instinct or something where you get this feeling that somebody pops into your head or haven't spoken to so and so and so long. I now it's no longer really a question as to what I'm going to do it more often than not because not for everybody. 00;27;15;18 - 00;27;34;01 It's not for everything. More often than not, I even place a value on it, which is limiting. So I'm somewhat of a contradiction, but not I'm saying they popped into my head for a reason. I should reach out. So I do my best to try to do that. It just depends on the mindset I'm in. And sometimes I'm not where I want to be or need to be. 00;27;34;13 - 00;27;54;19 But because of that, that's literally the thing that I'm using similar to that of a phone call saying why I thought of this person. I should I should reach out because I've already told myself I haven't in a while. And I think that's the connection that we can't explain as to how we can check in on people to make sure that we're nurturing the relationships. 00;27;54;19 - 00;28;06;09 Because if you're not physically around them on a constant basis, you don't know when they need you or not because they might not be asking or because they can't. Either way, I like I like what you brought up. 00;28;07;12 - 00;28;30;13 You know, I think in building upon that a little bit is I think there's some challenges that are vague. How many people send holiday cards every year? I think that number is dying or going away, you know, more and more of the years. Right. But at the same time, I still think about well, every year I get a lot of sometimes, whether it's on LinkedIn or other social media or, you know, quick email or a tweet or something that say, hey, David, how's it going? 00;28;30;14 - 00;28;50;24 Hope you as well with you. And you start think if you really think about this, I you know, I'm kind of glad they did that. That means they're maintaining that connection, even though I maybe forgot about it, but I never know when I may need it. Right. So then it makes me think, you know, is maybe I should just do that is kind of having my little things have just keeping that connection warm because you never know. 00;28;51;05 - 00;29;11;17 It may not be tomorrow, I mean, a year from now, maybe ten years from now. But when you keep those warm connections, especially people that it maybe it's ten years ago that you did some great things together. Life changes, right? We've talked about one of our podcast, you the unexpected. You're not aware and you always want to have that whole squad and a whole unit behind you when the time comes. 00;29;12;17 - 00;29;12;27 Yeah. 00;29;13;14 - 00;29;29;13 Now that's that's that's that's the way to think you know it's using the information that you have realizing that you don't have it all. So then you do put some effort into to try to get some more information to say, is it me? What should I be doing? How should I be doing? It? Is that should I do that? 00;29;29;23 - 00;29;54;16 Maybe. I mean, the whole thing is it's in your head. You're thinking about it. What are you going to do about it? And the worst case scenario is you land on saying, I'm going to pick up the phone, I'm going to shoot a text, I'm going to send an email, I'm going to knock on the door. More importantly, with your neighbors, here's the sarcasm with your neighbors, knock on their door, get to know your neighborhood and the community. 00;29;54;16 - 00;30;00;08 I mean, you just redefine what community means and then apply that and get to know everybody around you. I mean, because why not. 00;30;02;03 - 00;30;16;17 Without question, Chris. I mean, things have been quiet for a while, but like the you know, the zombies, we don't know when they're going to show up. And if your neighbors aren't there right now, you know, you can only store so much water, some food and MREs. Chris, I'll leave it at that. 00;30;18;13 - 00;30;20;01 Got it. All right. 00;30;21;12 - 00;30;40;18 So, Chris, you know, I think this has been a really, you know, a great conversation, right? I think is that is we don't know what's going to happen in future. Right. You know, whether it's zombies, you know, whether it's, you know, a climate change, you know, whether it's a change in or jobs. Right. But I think it's about a, you know, thinking about how you build trust in how you build connections. 00;30;40;18 - 00;31;00;21 How you nurture and maintain the bonds that you made over the years. Does as veterans write things about your units in many years ago, you know, reconnect with them, you know, just keep it warm. A very simple, you know, a simple call, a simple email, a message on Facebook, those type of things. But always look at the network. 00;31;01;01 - 00;31;10;23 Paying it forward. Right, is because sometimes the unexpected can happen to us. And it's great having those connections, those relationships, when the time we need them. 00;31;11;24 - 00;31;41;10 Yeah, that's that's sound advice. I mean, that's what it means. Let's let's just say like this, what else are you doing where you can't do that? You know, and I think that's more of a philosophical question. You know, it could be a rhetorical you can use it for whatever else. But ask yourself, if you're not doing anything, you know, at the moment, why not use that that moment to reach out to somebody and think about how they might be feeling and how that could spark something else. 00;31;41;10 - 00;31;59;10 And the motive is to do that. Right? And yeah, you might get something out of it for sure. You're going to feel good. You get that, that's for sure. Or maybe you won't because maybe maybe there's a risk in when you do that that there's some unfinished conversation that hasn't happened and things like that. However, it's still there. 00;31;59;19 - 00;32;17;22 So now you can you can face it, you can work through it, and then, you know, you can have closure of some sort. So that's the other part of it. So I mean, let's be real. There's some that some other relationship activities that components to consider. But I think generally speaking is, you know, we have people around us, we've engaged with people, we've interacted with people. 00;32;17;26 - 00;32;33;27 You know, there's people that have come in and out of your life at some point to where there's value in the immediate minute. Right. And that in that moment, there's there's immediate value. And then there's times when you haven't realized it yet. And that's to what you've been saying is there may be a time when you need each other or one of you needs somebody else. 00;32;33;27 - 00;32;54;24 They know maybe maybe they're even serving as a connection. Right. And I think that's the thing, you know, is people point nice to other people is also part of the path. So yeah. So I guess this is a good touch base. Touch base. I appreciate your time, David. And you know, for anybody out there that wants to connect with us, you know, you got to cross that. 00;32;56;00 - 00;32;56;26 What is it called now? 00;32;57;17 - 00;33;03;21 David Cross Travel Scan Me, my blog that talks about all the zombies around the world. I wonder. 00;33;04;09 - 00;33;09;04 What. Yeah, that one I was talking about, whether it's Twitter, but that and then. 00;33;10;26 - 00;33;13;26 And then Mr. TB Cross ad on Twitter. 00;33;13;26 - 00;33;18;10 So yeah. Yep. And then say one more time. 00;33;19;01 - 00;33;21;18 Mr. DB Cross at Twitter. 00;33;21;27 - 00;33;24;10 And then your your blog, your travel blog. 00;33;24;26 - 00;33;26;22 David Cross travel scam. 00;33;27;05 - 00;33;41;13 Yeah, you should go there. I checked it out. I mean, you know, we, we talk about it. It's funny now because we talk about it, but there's some good stuff there. I mean, you definitely do some traveling. How often do you travel in the air, do you think. 00;33;42;07 - 00;33;55;10 Well, at least I try to go at least, you know, two big trips a year. You know, the comet kind of threw things off a little bit. But, you know, definitely, you know, you know, three to four times a year because it's really my personal passion and things like that. And it's connecting to more people around the world is amazing. 00;33;55;10 - 00;34;07;16 The people I've met around the world that I have friends in Australia that I met on a tour. Right. That will be friends forever. And I never know if I need help. And our flight gets canceled in Melbourne, Australia. I know who to contact. 00;34;08;02 - 00;34;22;06 Yeah. Then there's that. Right? So got it. All right. Well, David, and then you can always find me on LinkedIn. I think we'll say that in opening too. But it's been a pleasure What do you think we should talk about next? 00;34;23;22 - 00;34;45;04 Good question. What should we talk about next? You know, I think it's I think there's an element is I think we're we were mentioned before about challenges is then why don't we talk about moving up, right? You know, how do you strive to the top? Right, right. And let's say what motivates people? How do they get there when there's obstacles and barriers? 00;34;45;04 - 00;34;47;26 Right. You know, let's maybe we can even have a guest join us. 00;34;49;13 - 00;34;59;17 I like that. All right. So maybe our next episode is going to include career trajectory and how you move move to where you want to be. Maybe that's that'll be the episode name. 00;35;00;02 - 00;35;00;14 Love it. 00;35;00;28 - 00;35;04;06 All right, David, appreciate your time as always. 00;35;04;06 - 00;35;05;19 Chris, I'm looking forward to the next one. 00;35;06;10 - 00;35;08;07 All right, everyone, keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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EXOS: All About Nutrition with Jana Mason 1:11:38

1 year1:11:38

1:11:38

Potentially one of the most overlooked aspects of overall human performance, nutrition is an absolute necessity in anything we do. Mindset, nutrition, movement, and recovery needs to be an integrated part of our efforts to sustain and improve our activity levels. As we consider wanting to do more, think better, and move towards very specific goals, nutrition is key. Listen in as Jana breaks down foundational nutrition, meal timing and composition, and supplementation into digestible, easy-to-consume, tips for us all to use and pass on to those we love. From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-stemmerman-8a29969/ - jmason@teamexos.com - sunderwood@teamexos.com - ahobgood@teamexos.com - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;09 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this fifth episode of our XO series, I am joined by our guest, Jana mason, senior performance dietitian at XOs. 00;00;28;12 - 00;00;59;12 Potentially one of the most overlooked aspects of overall human performance. Nutrition is an absolute necessity in anything we do mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery needs to be an integrated part of our efforts to sustain and improve our activity levels. As we consider wanting to do more, think better and move towards very specific goals nutrition is key. Listen in as Jana breaks down foundational nutrition, meal timing and composition supplementation in the digestible easy to consume tips for us all to use and pass on to those we love from individuals, athletes to businesses or military. 00;00;59;12 - 00;01;19;17 Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. Jan Contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Good morning Jana. How's it going? Good morning, Chris. How are you? I'm doing great. 00;01;19;20 - 00;01;42;21 Doing well, thanks. And before we got on here, you said. Yeah, it's a sunny day here in Florida and. Right. Yep. It's been. It's been very nice. It's been very hot. So I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks, we'll start the downward trend. So we have some nice cool mornings. The falls great here, but the summer is a little brutal at times. 00;01;42;23 - 00;02;15;24 Oh, I bet. Yeah. The humidity probably going to dial in to how the environment or the external elements affect our nutritional focus here. Yeah, they definitely do. See what I did there? Segway chai try and nutrition to everything. All right, everyone. Today we're talking about nutrition with Jana mason from Exos and running out of Florida. So we've had previous episodes where we've had an introduction with Anthony Hobgood, who's also talked about some other topics like training and daily movement. 00;02;15;24 - 00;02;41;23 And then we've had some information on the model itself, the human performance model with Stephan Underwood and we've also had an episode for this one with About Sleep with John Stemmerman. And so today we're talking about nutrition and how it ties in to the things that we've already discussed and then also introducing some things that we haven't yet probably introduced as something that we should no matter what we do. 00;02;41;23 - 00;03;22;20 And who we are and in one of our jobs or interests or goals are how we need to factor in the realities of what nutrition does or doesn't do for us, depending on what we're trying to achieve. So Jan and I will kick it to you. Yeah, absolutely. I think nutrition is one of those things that when people do set a goal, especially like a weight loss goal or maybe even change in body composition, goal nutrition is kind of like one of the last things people consider, which it really should not be, because you're definitely going to get to your goal faster if you kind of hone in on your nutrition. 00;03;22;23 - 00;03;50;26 And even even Anthony, I was listening to the podcast that you did with him. He talked a lot about nutrition. And when we're working with athletes, our coaches do a great job of telling them like, Hey, you're going to run a faster 40. If you dial in on your nutrition because the other guy who is just as gifted as you are, this is the thing that could put you over him. 00;03;50;27 - 00;04;23;19 So yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize not only like if it's a weight goal or a body composition goal, like how nutrition can affect your, your mindset, your mood, your energy levels, like the tire, the energy you have at work. But also when you get done with work and you have, you know, a family to take care of or kids to play with nutrition and play a very vital role in changing your mindset. 00;04;23;21 - 00;04;49;23 So I know Stephan, when he was he was speaking with you, he talked kind of like a high level overview of our human performance model that we have at Exos. And he did speak about how you do have to have mindset, nutrition movement, recovery seamlessly integrated so that you can meet your your goals efficiently and optimize your overall cognitive and physical performance. 00;04;49;23 - 00;05;15;02 So he did a good job, I think setting the stage there for Anthony and and John. He'll speak about sleep in myself and then the others to follow after myself. So that was great. And then Anthony, he spoke a lot about sustainability and I'm definitely going to talk about that in in this segment because it is really key, he said. 00;05;15;02 - 00;05;42;05 I liked when he said, do the simple things savagely well, but do them consistently because you could do the simple things savagely. Well, but if you only do them for a short period of time, then you're you're going to revert back to your old ways. And that happens all the time with nutrition. I get clients all the time here that, you know, they're like, Hey, I want to do something. 00;05;42;06 - 00;06;04;14 Just fill in the blanks for a restrictive diet. I want to do a keto diet or a very low carb diet or I want to fast whatever, whatever it may be. And I'm like, okay, well, that's that's great. Well, let's talk about what you've done in the past, what your goals are. Has this worked in the past? Is there in barriers? 00;06;04;16 - 00;06;30;04 So just asking a lot of questions, seeking to understand. And sometimes we come to the revelation, Oh, well, this didn't work in the past and actually it was only a short term success. And then I ended up gaining all my weight back or whatever it was that they had said as a goal. And then we come to the conclusion, okay, well, maybe we need to set a different nutrition game plan. 00;06;30;12 - 00;06;59;00 Or it could be like, Oh, well, this has worked for me and it has been sustainable and successful, but now let's figure out how do we optimize it and fine tune it even more. So I'll definitely want to touch on the sustainability of nutrition and just making sure you're doing something that's going to fit your lifestyle and also help you get to whatever or that goal is that you set. 00;06;59;03 - 00;07;19;05 So that being said, I want to start off with three key points. I kind of wanted to break it down, make it easy. I used to have this soccer coach growing up that always said when we try to get like fancy with our our footwork, he always used the terminology kiss, which I'm sure you've heard of. Keep it simple, stupid. 00;07;19;11 - 00;07;56;17 So I always start out with my nutrition talks, keeping it as simple as possible and then we'll dive into a little bit of deeper conversations and I'm sure we'll have some side segments off of these three points. But three points for anybody that's listening, we're going to first talk about foundational nutrition. So what is foundational in nutrition? We're going to hit on sleep and hydration because these really are the things that you have to get right before we even want to consider changing what we're eating. 00;07;56;19 - 00;08;27;11 They're basically the fundamental things that we need to make any type of body composition change or weight change. They affect our mood or energy. They affect everything. So we're going to start with the foundational pieces. The second thing we're going to talk a little bit about meal timing and meal composition. So like what things go in a well-balanced meal or a snack and then maybe even the cadence of the timing of how we eat those meals and snacks. 00;08;27;14 - 00;08;53;10 And then the last thing, which is the most specific, is supplementation. So talking about those things that maybe we need to fill in the gaps because we just can't do it through the food that we're eating. Or maybe we even have like a medical history of a deficiency or we are a high performing athlete and it's really difficult to get all of the nutrients that we need just from the food. 00;08;53;12 - 00;09;15;23 So we're going to kind of start off in that order are foundational. So are most basic fundamental things. Kind of like Anthony spoke about. You have to be able to fundamentally move without pain. That's the most basic thing. So we're going to start with basics and then we'll work our way up to a little bit more specific, if that sounds good. 00;09;15;25 - 00;09;36;16 Sounds good to me. I mean, that's kind of introducing the opportunity to ask a couple of things along the way and then connect dots and things like that. So that's great. But I do like how you all have all of you have consistently used the terms in each of these conversations, which helps with the kind of the mindset of understanding the discipline that goes into the consistency. 00;09;36;16 - 00;10;04;26 You know, and I'm not trying to split hairs on this or being very specific on this meaning, but the trust that's developed through the staff or through the coaches or through anybody that's helping you change how you do what you do, you look for these subtle things, subtleties. That's what I was looking for, is the subtleties. You're looking for it, and the language you're using is the consistency as far as seeking to understand, doing the things savagely. 00;10;04;26 - 00;10;28;02 Well, that is funny because you can say I crushed it on my workout a month ago. I haven't worked out since. Yeah. So it's this memory of of success, right where you're like, Oh yeah. And then you don't do it again. So yeah, I'm curious and, you know, I'll do my best to try to not interject before you make your point, but let's go. 00;10;28;05 - 00;11;20;16 I feel feel free to interject. I can definitely get off on some tangents so I'll try to stay on track a little bit here. So Foundation, we're going to start there. Sleep and hydration. I tell my clients, my athletes, these are the two most important things that we need to do and have right before you even come to me wanting to change you up your your meal plan or your game plan for your nutrition, people don't realize how much impact that these two things actually have on the nutrition choices we make and then also on our recovery from whatever the demands of the day are our movement and then also trying to change body composition. 00;11;20;17 - 00;11;42;07 If that's one of our goals or change our weight, because there are a lot of physiological and metabolic responses that happen when we are getting enough sleep or and we are hydrating well or vice versa if we're if we're not getting enough sleep and recovering as well or drinking enough water. So I'm going to start with the sleep. 00;11;42;07 - 00;12;14;23 I knew there's going to be a whole segment with someone that's a lot more intelligent than I am on sleep, so I'm going to keep it kind of a high level and trying to mostly focus on the nutrition piece of sleep. So generally speaking, recommendation for sleep all of these recommendations to that, I'm going to say during this segment are and I would say General recommendations like this is a starting point. 00;12;14;23 - 00;12;53;14 So I want people to know that not everybody is going to fit within these general recommendations because everybody's different. So sleep requirements, 7 to 9 hours approximately a night. Why do we need to sleep? Obviously, this is the time that our body and our mind are going to repair and rebuild themselves. We can go out and Anthony can take somebody through an intense workout, maybe they do in two days, but if they're not getting adequate sleep, then they're not going to reap the benefits from the repair, the muscle building that Anthony just took them to go through that workout. 00;12;53;17 - 00;13;21;16 From a cognitive standpoint, stresses illnesses like sleep is where we're going, going to come back. Those things. So from the nutrition standpoint, let's let's get to that. A lot of things are going on when you are getting adequate sleep. So growth hormone, this is a hormone that's going to be released when we are getting enough sleep. So this is needed for every tissue in your body. 00;13;21;16 - 00;13;42;12 So if you're trying to make any type of, I guess, quote unquote gain, you want to make sure you're getting adequate sleep. So this hormone is releasing properly cortisol, which I'm sure John talks about a lot in his sleep section. This is one of our stress hormones, and it's a catabolic hormone, meaning that it's going to tear you down. 00;13;42;14 - 00;14;09;02 So if this is staying chronically elevated while because we're not getting enough sleep. So it's chronically elevated mostly through the day because probably the demands of life outside of sleep are going to increase our cortisol levels as well. Then we're not going to be able to rebuild or repair as optimally as we would if we were getting that adequate sleep. 00;14;09;05 - 00;14;39;26 A couple other hormones that I wanted to throw out there, which are more thyroid and hunger regulation hormones, there's two in particular ghrelin and leptin ghrelin is our hunger hormones. So basically this tells us we we need to eat, eat more. This is actually going to be increased when we're not getting adequate sleep. Leptin, which is our satiety hormone, telling us like, okay, you've had enough, let's stop eating. 00;14;40;03 - 00;15;11;07 This is decreased when we're not getting adequate sleep. So if you have these two hunger regulation hormones that are kind of out of whack telling you to eat more, but not giving you the signal that you've had enough, then you are more apt to overeat and eat more calories than maybe you need for the day. So all of that is kind of something that you can't see physically but is internally happening. 00;15;11;09 - 00;15;41;18 So you can see how this would lead to not making body composition changes, which by what I mean by that is losing body fat. If that's your goal and or building muscle or weight loss in general, you're just not going to get there as fast if you're not getting that adequate sleep. Got it. So real quick on that one, since we're there and think about that because I'm thinking about myself as always, a little vain. 00;15;41;21 - 00;16;08;21 Just kidding. But if I'm thinking about the types of fat now when we're talking about sleep and we're talking about nutrition, the combination of those things to allow, you know, not to have as much cortisol and these other things, your body recovers and so on and so forth, the differences between fat. So when we're talking from here, I don't know if you're going to cover it or not, so we can understand the different types of fat so that you have the the rolls on the side and whatnot. 00;16;08;27 - 00;16;32;23 And then you have the I think it's visceral stuff inside. I don't know how the other way to say around your organs, you run to organs, different things, different way to lose that and different way to focus on how we can manage that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And actually chronically elevated cortisol levels are associated with higher like abdominal fat. 00;16;32;23 - 00;17;05;11 So that fat that for men, for example, is predominantly where your fat goes, which is more associated like cardiovascular disease and things like that. So like high blood pressure, cholesterol, all of that can be affected by the cortisol levels. So yes, losing the fat, that is not necessarily. And in indicative of a healthy, I guess, lifestyle or healthy biomarkers. 00;17;05;14 - 00;17;40;03 Got it. Okay. Thanks for that. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to touch on here, a couple things actually. So what is asleep Disrupter? The biggest one, and I think pretty much everybody knows what it is. Stephan touched on it in his segment to alcohol. So if we are drinking alcohol consistently before bed, the alcohol basically it's going to wake you up when it starts metabolizing. 00;17;40;06 - 00;18;15;02 So if you're you know that you have to be like game ready the next morning, whether it's maybe a sporting event or you have some type of like physical activity you have to be prepped for, or it could be more or if you need to be sharp in on your game for some type of conference that you have to speak out or whatever it may be, a meeting, the alcohol may be one of those things you just want to consider limiting that night before you have to be kind of game ready. 00;18;15;05 - 00;18;40;22 That's the biggest one there. I do want to talk a little bit about what can what things because I don't want to get too far into all of the other things that you can do to to get better sleep, because I know John will talk about that. But from a nutrition standpoint, because I get asked a lot like what things can I eat or drink before I go to bed to maybe get a little bit of better sleep. 00;18;40;24 - 00;19;01;29 So there is three things I'll touch on here. One is pretty, I would say pretty obvious, although I say pretty obvious in that I realize a lot of people don't know some of these things that I'm saying, but like a herbal tea. So like camomile that's relaxing. Tart, cherry juice, concentrate. So this'll help tart cherry juice in general. 00;19;01;29 - 00;19;41;03 Or you can take pills. There are supplements for it, but if you want to go the cheaper route, I would recommend the tart cherry juice concentrate. This helps with recovery, but also helps with natural melatonin production so that you can get into more of a restful sleep. You only need about two ounces of the concentrate. I usually tell people to go that route if you're going to do it, because if you do just the 100% tart cherry juice, then you would have to drink about 16 ounces equivalent to the two ounce concentrate, which is a lot of juice and may not fit into your overall calorie or carbohydrate needs. 00;19;41;05 - 00;20;04;05 And then the last thing is magnesium. So magnesium helps with muscle relaxation. You can get this again, you can get this from a supplement. But if you want to go the food route, which I would always recommend food first, nut seeds, legumes, dark chocolate, even, which is kind of a nice dessert. They all are good sources of magnesium. 00;20;04;05 - 00;20;32;03 So you could have something in your dinner or if you're doing a nice snack, maybe that's high magnesium containing food. So those are three. There's more things that you can do. But I thought I'd point out by just a few of people want to want to try that if they're having some difficulty sleeping, maybe try that before going the route of more, I guess, extreme ways of getting to sleep, whether that's medication or whatever it may be. 00;20;32;05 - 00;20;51;01 Yeah. Now that's good. And and because it's the flow of thought that I'm having, I'm like because you said concentrate. And I was like, where would I immediately and where would I get that? How much trouble is it worth? How much is that going to impact my ability to go find it and then and then be consistent And then you said versus the juice, which is 16 ounces. 00;20;51;01 - 00;21;14;10 And immediately I was thinking that what you said impacting the other areas of concerns of calories and sugars and things like that. So I like where we're going, That's all. Okay, Awesome. Yeah. And and with any of these little, like tips that I'm giving out, just I would say just experiment because you never know what's going to work for you. 00;21;14;10 - 00;21;39;07 Some people love taking tart cherry. Do some people just prefer taking magnesium before bed? So you kind of have to play around, see what works for you. Maybe it's nothing nutrition related. It could be something else. Like in your environment that's disturbing your sleep. So I'm trying not to get into that as well because I know there'll be a more in-depth segment on that. 00;21;39;09 - 00;22;07;13 Okay, So we have sleep. That's number one, hydration. Number two, which is tied with sleep, is our foundation is the hydration piece. And so I want to touch a little bit on that before we move on to the actually talking about food. So general recommendations, again, this is a starting place. We can go above it if needed, but a half an ounce to one ounce per pound of body weight. 00;22;07;14 - 00;22;32;01 So that's typical recommendation. So if you're a £200 person, you want to drink at least 100 ounces of water a day as your minimum. Now, if you are in a hot, humid environment like Florida, your needs may go a little bit higher than that. If you're training twice a day or maybe you're training for Ironman or whatever it is, you also may need a little bit more. 00;22;32;02 - 00;23;00;04 Maybe you're at elevation, you're going to need a little bit more. So you do have to consider the external factors. But if you use the half an ounce to an ounce, that's a pretty good, I would say, place to start. And honestly, a lot of people struggle with this. And I think it's just because people don't think about drinking water and they get busy or they're like, Oh, it's a hassle because now I have to go pee and I have meetings all day. 00;23;00;06 - 00;23;33;10 But honestly, it's one of the easiest upgrades we can make with probably the most significant health impact. I mean, you think about your body and how much of your body is water like it's a large percentage of your body like up to 70%. So it's got to be important, right? We need it for our cognitive function. So like making sure being focused, being productive, we need it for transporting oxygen and nutrients to our working muscles, our sales. 00;23;33;15 - 00;24;00;03 If we have an injury, obviously we need water to get those nutrients to the injury site so that we're healing faster. So we need it for everything. We need it for absorbing our nutrients in our organs. It's so important and people just don't think about doing it. So I have to want to have to reinforce it and then to I have to come up or we have to come up with like, well, how can we increase water? 00;24;00;03 - 00;24;29;08 Like what are some practical tips? So we'll kind of talk about those things. And I will say like we can also include any naturally zero calorie beverages in that in that as well. So we can include like unsweetened teas, sparkling waters, we can include some coffee. Even So if you're drinking black coffee, I tell people that's perfectly fine, you know, maybe two, 300 milligrams, which is probably 2 to 3 cups, depending on the brew. 00;24;29;11 - 00;25;15;00 Like you can count that towards your overall hydration. But I would recommend like, let's try to make most of that water and then everything else is just kind of like a cherry on top. So yeah, so cognitively we're going to be better off. I always show, especially if I'm given a PowerPoint presentation to like a corporate setting, I will show these images, these MRI images of two different brains and on one side is a hydrating brain and all the other side's a dehydrated brain and there are blatantly like significantly more black divots in the dehydrated brain, which is indicative of brain activity. 00;25;15;05 - 00;25;43;28 So you can see like from an actual image of a brain when you're dehydrated, how unproductive or uncreative or focused that you're you're probably going to be if you're dehydrated. I do think people get very used to being in a dehydrated state, and that's kind of like their norm. And they are like, Well, I feel fine and I'm drinking 20 ounces of water, so why should I increase my water intake? 00;25;44;00 - 00;26;18;22 But I will tell you, like when I do come across clients that are very low in water intake, which is most of them, when they start slowly increasing water in their day, they will feel a difference whether that's mood energy, like mental clarity, physical performance too. So if we're talking about an athlete or even like a weekend warrior, someone just working out daily and that sweating from a physical standpoint, you are going to be faster and sharp or you're going to be less prone to injury. 00;26;18;22 - 00;26;48;19 If you're well-hydrated as well. I always tell people try to keep it under that 1% loss of body weight. When you are training. So I'll actually have I'm not a huge fan of like weighing every day, but I will have athletes especially maybe the first week they're here and say it is summer because it's super hot here. I'll have them weigh in before and after a training session just to see how much water weight they're losing. 00;26;48;22 - 00;27;12;18 And then we'll kind of do the calculation if they're losing too much waterway. So say again, £200. If they're losing more than £4 of of water weight, they're losing too much because they're already at that 2% dehydrated stage where they're going to start being more prone to injury and having a negative effects on their performance. So you can kind of do that yourself. 00;27;12;20 - 00;27;37;09 Just weigh in before and after your activity, see if you're drinking enough. Maybe maybe it's easier because you weren't drinking any and you need to just start sipping water throughout your workout or your competition. Maybe you were sipping on water all throughout your training competition and you're like, I can't drink anymore. Then then that's when you're probably going to want to consider adding in maybe electrolytes to help retain some of that. 00;27;37;11 - 00;28;07;28 The fluid that you're taking in. And there is all kinds of electrolytes ranging in sodium. So again, you have to kind of experiment nutrition, nutrition can be really frustrating because it's not always like black and white, but everybody's different. So it is a bit of an experiment at times. But yeah, water, water, drink enough water. Staying hydrated is going to be super beneficial to physical and cognitive performance. 00;28;08;00 - 00;28;43;17 I know I mentioned that to be in that big marker, but even at 1% dehydrated, you're not necessarily going to have a physical performance decline, but you will have more of a cardiovascular strain. So your perceived effort seems harder. So we don't we don't want that, especially if you're an endurance athlete or a triathlon or you're running a marathon and you feel like, okay, I'm in mile ten, and now I feel like this is a lot harder than it was, I probably can slow down. 00;28;43;17 - 00;29;09;16 So ultimately it is going to affect your physical performance. And I have to reinforce this with our military population all the time, like drink water because it does affect you. They have to be like mentally and physically sharp at all times. And it's really hard for them to to to stay super hydrated, even if they're trying. So get at it. 00;29;09;16 - 00;29;31;11 So the summary is you don't feel like drinking. It is probably the the awareness s of you should because the minute you say I don't feel like it is probably an indicator that you should and if the environment in the elements you understand where you're going to be, if you're going to change from where you normally stay in your house, you can go somewhere else. 00;29;31;14 - 00;30;05;07 Consider that movement itself with stress and other activities where your body's now responding to different places and different elevations and different atmosphere and all that stuff Drink, drink, water, fluids. Right. And and actually being inadequately hydrated can also affect your, again, cortisol level. So adding more stress is not good, right? Yeah. Got it. All right, cool. Dehydrator, quick note on this. 00;30;05;09 - 00;30;35;01 Again, alcohol. I know alcohol is falling in everywhere here, but I have to talk about it. Alcohol is anti diuretic hormone. So you're going to be losing more water and then added sugar. Actually, a lot of people think it's coffee when I always quiz people, they always think it's coffee, caffeine in and of itself. If you're drinking it at a moderate amount, say 3 to 400 milligrams a day, you should not be dehydrating yourself. 00;30;35;06 - 00;31;00;20 It's when people add added sugars or you're getting that like pumpkin spice latte. It's almost a fall season. So those things are going to dehydrate you because sugar is going to rob your cells of water. So just keep that in mind when you are hydrating, making sure that you're intentional about getting at least half your body weight in ounces of water. 00;31;00;20 - 00;31;25;17 And then you can add in other things as well. Got it. Yeah. Didn't think about that. And I'm glad you said that because I like my coffee and yeah, I don't know people. It's okay to have it. Yeah. And put stuff in it so. Okay perfect. So alcohol, water. Well alcohol, I mean it comes back to double down on the things that disrupt your sleep and then disrupts your. 00;31;25;17 - 00;32;00;24 Yeah. Okay. So it disrupts your sleep, disrupts your hydration which are your foundational things and we'll talk a second actually in the next piece about well, where does that fit in? So those are foundational sleep and hydration. And so now we're moving on to a little bit more specifics. It is probably what most people are interested in an end to talking about the mill composite in our macronutrients and micronutrients and then maybe the timing of that as well. 00;32;00;26 - 00;32;38;25 So before I dive into the different macros, macros, I do want to stress the under fueling problem. I would say 80% of the clients I see the tactical athletes, I see they chronically under fuel, which is actually a big problem if you're wanting to lose weight or again, if you're wanting to make those body composition changes. So building up muscle or reducing some of that body fat. 00;32;38;28 - 00;33;20;19 And I know I say that and I and I talk about the tactical population a bit because a lot of those at Oracle probably have been in the military at some point in their career. But I feel like that's something that a habit that you pick up when you're in that lifestyle, that sometimes you carry over and you continue to undo your fuel after you're out of the military, and especially because you're less active for the most part, then you feel like, Oh, I need to continue to cut calories, but that's not necessarily going to help you get to the weight goal or the body composition goal that you want to get to. 00;33;20;21 - 00;33;49;14 I've seen plenty of people that there will go over, say, like a 24 hour recall. And I don't I'll notice that they're barely eating, you know, 12, 1400 calories. And I'm like, hey, this is probably not enough fuel to optimize your physical performance, your energy, your cognitive performance. So let's try to actually up your calorie. Even though I know you want to lose weight. 00;33;49;14 - 00;34;21;05 Let's just see what happens and we'll up the calories and then people start losing weight so that I just want people to be mindful of like restricting calories to a certain extent does not always equal weight loss. So it's trying to fuel your body with the things that are going to optimize your cognitive and physical performance. So we're going to we're going to kind of roll through those macronutrients and some micro nutrients. 00;34;21;07 - 00;34;57;22 Whenever I'm talking about this section, I always start out with my favorite rule, which is the 8020 rule. And I think this brings us back to the sustainability that has been woven through all of these segments, because I have found that when we take an approach that, okay, 80% of the time we're going to fuel our bodies with what it needs to reach our goal, what it needs to be like, peak physically, mentally, but then we're intentionally going to allow for that 20% of time where we just have foods, say, nourish our souls and not necessarily our body. 00;34;57;25 - 00;35;28;12 We just enjoy eating them or drinking them if it's alcohol. So I do find that that's a more sustainable approach when we are not so strict and we do allow ourselves some of that, some of those foods in the flexibility to intentionally put those into our diet. So kind of keep that rule in mind as I go through some of these different macronutrients. 00;35;28;15 - 00;35;57;16 All right. So We're going to start with carbohydrates, everybody's favorite carbohydrates. When I speak about foods, I like to speak about them in a way that shows like how this food is going to benefit from a cognitive standpoint, a health standpoint, a physical performance standpoint. I don't like to say this food's good, this foods bad, because we know that all foods can fit into a sustainable diet. 00;35;57;16 - 00;36;23;04 You just want to be intentional about it. So carbohydrates, these are the foods that are going to be our preferred fuel source for our brain. So if we need to be cognitively sharp, incorporating carbs into our diet, it's a good thing. And then also it's our preferred fuel source for any high intensity activities or long duration activities. So from a physical performance standpoint, also carbs are our friends. 00;36;23;10 - 00;36;59;07 We want carbs in our diet. So what is a carbohydrate? It could be anything from a fruit, a grain, it could be beans, legumes. The key is to focus on unprocessed or minimally processed carbohydrates. So like our starchy veggies, the sweet potatoes, peas, corn, things like that would fall under unprocessed, more minimally processed would be more of like whole grain breads, pastas, brown rice, wild rice, black rice like that. 00;36;59;09 - 00;37;28;11 Those are going to be higher in fiber, which helps with cholesterol. It helps with satiety. So if we're trying to watch, you know, the calories that we eat, it helps us go for longer, helps with digestion. So lots of good things about fiber. And then also if you are eating minimally processed or unprocessed foods, you typically are eating things that are lower in added sugar, which the added sugar, as we know, is a dehydrator. 00;37;28;15 - 00;37;56;03 And also it's an inflammatory. So inflammation is connected to like every disease that we could have. So we want to keep that under control. And then if we have an injury, especially, we want to make sure we're just limited in those added sugars. My rule of thumb is typically let's try to keep the added sugar to under five grams per serving and the fiber let's try to shoot for at least three grams of fiber per serving. 00;37;56;03 - 00;38;29;07 So we're looking at a nutrition label. You should have fiber and added sugar under the carb section on the label. Got it. Makes sense. Perfect. Okay, so let's roll on 3 to 2 proteins. Protein is important for building muscle mass, but also it helps with the integrity of our immune system. So the key here, make sure we have a quality protein source at every meal and even our snacks if we can. 00;38;29;10 - 00;38;53;27 It seems like a simple thing to do, but honestly, it can be hard because what are the most convenient things? Like when we're in a hurry, we're probably grabbing a car or a car mixed with a fat, not necessarily a quality protein source. So sometimes this can actually be one of the biggest struggles for people to get adequate protein in at breakfast or lunch or dinner or whatever it may be. 00;38;54;00 - 00;39;20;14 You only need about 20 grams of protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So typically, I tell people, let's try to shoot depending on your whole nutrition plan, if you can shoot for at least 20 to 40 grams of protein in a meal, then that's great. You're doing pretty good there. Protein. We used to have this old tagline, the the left legs, the better a plant proteins. 00;39;20;16 - 00;39;43;22 Then we have our seafood or no leg and I guess animals. Then we have our two legged animal. So poultry, so chicken, turkey and then are four legged animals. So if we kind of try to include all of those, the four legged animals are red meats. Okay to have, but maybe we have them a little bit less than our seafood or our chicken and turkey. 00;39;43;24 - 00;40;11;02 So we can kind of look at it like that. And and the reason for that is because of what so Well, you definitely want to, I guess with the bears that can be multifaceted and you want a variety of everything the plant proteins are going to have a lot of fiber. So that's adding something different that like your chicken and your turkey and a red meats aren't going to have. 00;40;11;02 - 00;40;36;01 So that's an extra nutrient. They're also going to be filled with, you know, different vitamins, minerals, maybe more micro nutrients. And then as you kind of work your way up, we have our fish. So like if we're focusing on fatty fish, which are like salmon, tuna, herring, mackerel, these are going to provide those heart healthy omega three fat. 00;40;36;01 - 00;41;14;06 So they have a little bit more benefits, different benefits in certain ways. Again, if you just don't like plant proteins, it's okay to have chicken and turkey maybe try to get in some seafood if you can. So some salmon each week, it's okay to have that most of the days. But it's really important to with anything and any of the macronutrients to make sure that you're having variety because variety equals different nutrients that your body good giving and getting so balancing it out so everything offers something different. 00;41;14;06 - 00;41;42;24 And if you're looking at at what the other things you're eating contain, you can do your own supplementation of you or what you're doing, the activity levels and things like that. Exactly. And then like I said, right. Me there's still is still okay to have you know, as long as there's no religious or restrictions that are placed on you, maybe by a physician but that's still going to offer you something. 00;41;42;24 - 00;42;16;27 It has this great iron, so good protein source. So yeah, variety is key with the proteins as well. Got it. Okay. Moving on to fats are our last two macronutrient that I also, I guess kind of like carbs can get villainized a little bit, but fats are great for you if you're looking at the molecular level. So like if you're looking at your cell, your cell membrane has made up of fat, so you need that. 00;42;17;00 - 00;42;41;01 You need fat for every cell in your body. And certain fats I mentioned in the protein section are going to give you a little bit more than other fat. So like our omega three fats, which are anti-inflammatory fats, they're going to give us a little something extra than maybe things that are higher in, say, saturated fats, for example. 00;42;41;01 - 00;43;08;19 So those are things like they're found in nuts and seeds a lot, too, like chia seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, avocado. Again, our fatty fish that I mentioned earlier, olives, olive oil, things like that are going to have those good omega three heart healthy fats. But also a big thing about the omega threes, too, is the cognitive benefit that has as well. 00;43;08;19 - 00;43;36;07 There's lots of research on that. So it helps our brain, our heart and then our cells. So we want to make sure that we're trying to diligently incorporate some of those omega threes in there. But again, we still want a variety of fats because nuts, seeds, all the different fats are going to offer us different micronutrients and things that we need to optimize our overall health. 00;43;36;09 - 00;44;03;08 The last food group R is our color section, so I always include fruits in here too and in our carb section. But veggies and fruits are going to fall into here and these are what we need to help support our immune system. So vitamins, minerals, micro, all the micronutrients, phytonutrients, antioxidants, all of that fiber or green fiber all fall into there. 00;44;03;10 - 00;44;27;24 But we try to encourage at least three colors or more on each plate. This can be really hard to do. So I usually tell people like, okay, well, let's just take an assessment of what we're doing currently. Is there one meal in your day that you're not getting any color on? And if there if you can identify a meal, then maybe we'll just start there. 00;44;27;24 - 00;44;54;16 Maybe there's multiple meals, but we'll just pick one. We'll start with one meal and then try to add one color on there and then maybe we try to move that to two or maybe we move to another meal so that we can get a color on every plate. Sometimes I'll even tell people like, Well, let's just pick one color and we'll focus on incorporating as many veggies and fruits from that one color into our week. 00;44;54;16 - 00;45;24;27 And then we'll change colors the next week because each color is actually indicative of something that get like a vitamin or a mineral that's given your body to function optimally. So like red foods are associated with cardiovascular health and white foods with immune health. So they all are going to play a different role. And if you're missing out on color, if you're missing all variety, you're probably missing out on some nutrient that your body needs to maximize your performance. 00;45;25;00 - 00;45;48;15 So in summarizing all of this to me have it makes sense. The key word here is balance through understanding. I'm just going to throw my little phrase in there because if you're deficient in one thing and you double down on the, say, the proteins, right, the leafy proteins, then it's also in the vegetation and area. So you have to be considered what else you're getting when you combine things on your plate. 00;45;48;15 - 00;46;07;20 Is that safe to say? Yeah, it's all about variety and balance at the end of the day. Yep. Got it. Yes, because keep it varied, right. And understanding what each of these are. I would imagine just the layman, somebody like me is going in there and this is what I like. And you led with this, you know. What did you use? 00;46;07;20 - 00;46;31;22 What have you done in the past and what's worked and what hasn't? So you can identify what you want for your habits that you don't want to let go of so you can have that compromised to help with the consistency you feel like you're getting what you want while you're offering what you need. Slowly shift into a more disciplined routine where you now are acclimated to selection of what you're going to do in that balanced diet, right? 00;46;31;28 - 00;46;53;28 Yeah. And exactly. Have you I guess from your your personal experience, like, have you ever tried to do a very restrictive diet or nutrition plan and you were able to stick with it for a little bit, But at one point you just kind of like fall off the bandwagon and then you just go crazy and just binge on whatever you weren't having. 00;46;54;00 - 00;47;13;18 Yeah, I did the keto, but I was also at that stage I was doing trying to train for a long distance running. Oh, okay. Good combo. Great. Yeah, it's perfect. If you don't want to do what you want to do, let me just feed myself all the proteins, no carbs, and then go run 15 miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;47;13;18 - 00;47;35;05 That sounds like pretty miserable. So, yeah, don't self-diagnose. Sometimes you're going to need to ask for help and get somebody to help you understand what it is that you're doing. First day, second day, second week might feel good. After that, something's missing and you don't realize it's. It's the things that you've chosen to do over the most recent days or weeks, right? 00;47;35;08 - 00;47;52;26 That you forget like. Mm. And then you don't want to do it because you're not thinking about the things that are affecting your, your decision. I don't want to do that. I don't feel like doing that. Well, that's because it's cyclic. You're you don't feel like you want to do it because you're not doing it. So. Yeah. Yeah. 00;47;52;28 - 00;48;16;00 Okay. And a lot of these things either. Yeah, we don't know that we should be doing it because there is a lot of conflicting information out there, especially on nutrition or we just have forgotten because we've gotten busy. We have families and kids and work and all that. So it's really it comes down to being intentional with everything. 00;48;16;00 - 00;48;38;27 And food is something that you want to be intentional about. It's not something that you want to add is another stressor on your life. But if you just kind of sit down and maybe it is seeking out a health professional, a dietitian to help you with it, but if you just do it and kind of make out a game plan, yes, you will have to go back and refined it and refine it. 00;48;38;27 - 00;49;00;09 Like Stephan mentioned, learn, design, deliver and refine. You do have to check back in and make some adjustments. But once you sit down and do that, it will take out a lot of stress moving forward because you get in the habit of doing certain things. So yeah, so we're we've got our foundation, we've got our meal timing and composition. 00;49;00;11 - 00;49;27;22 The last thing that I kind of had that I wanted to talk about was the most specific, which is a supplementation of this is the last thing that we should consider you shouldn't be thinking about adding in all these things like ashwagandha or b-complex or whatever it is, whatever the newest supplement is out there, there is always something they all get asked about something new probably every week. 00;49;27;22 - 00;49;50;21 And I'm like, Hold up. I'm like, I got to go research because I don't even know what you're talking about right now. We got to have the sleep in the hydration and then the food dialed in and then, okay, then maybe we consider like, okay, we're still missing something that how do we fill in the gaps? And that's where, like supplementation may come into play. 00;49;50;24 - 00;50;15;13 This can come into play if we do have a know like medical history of being deficient in something, or maybe we are a high performing athlete and we just have more demands than I guess the average person from. It also can come into play though, just based on our lifestyle. I would always recommend food first, but sometimes we are. 00;50;15;14 - 00;50;49;26 We are very busy and it's better to get something in than nothing. So we might have to do like a whey protein supplement in our breakfast oatmeal because we we don't have time to make prepare an actual like hot breakfast. So lifestyle can always Yeah. Also kind of like dictate if we need supplementation or not. I guess I'll start with some every day supplementation and then we'll get into kind of Perry activity. 00;50;49;26 - 00;51;25;01 What what can we maybe do if you are active around a workout every day supplementation again, I mentioned plant or whey based protein here because I think this is a great thing that you can have on hand if you are very busy or you don't have time to prepare, say, like a breakfast. I use breakfast as an example because this is where I struggle the most, because I do have a 17 month old that I am getting ready in the morning, I'm dropping off at daycare, then I'm coming to work all day and also trying to fit some type of movement or exercise. 00;51;25;01 - 00;52;02;12 And so I stay relatively busy and I'm just on the go in the morning. So fitting in a breakfast where it's fast and maybe I can take it in the car with me or maybe I can eat it right when I get to work and I'm checking my emails in the morning. I think that having like a quality protein source on hand is not a bad thing, and that can be used as a meal replacement if you are getting all the macronutrients in there and the color, or it can be used as kind of like an accompanying thing or even a snack too. 00;52;02;15 - 00;52;29;11 So that could be an everyday supplementation. For me, Vitamin D is an important one, but the fat soluble vitamins. So it is one of those that you do want to go get blood work before you just start taking a lot of vitamin D. But I will say that most of the people that I see, if you are indoors most of the day or you live maybe in the northern hemisphere, most of us are a little bit low in vitamin D. 00;52;29;13 - 00;53;07;00 Also, the darker the your skin, you actually are more prone to be lower in vitamin D as well. So there's different considerations there. So that's a bit you might want to get checked out because that's going to play a huge role in your hormones, your mood, your energy, testosterone if you're male. So the very important vitamin A quality multivitamin, this this is basically if you struggle to get color in your diet, you're like, I just know I don't a lot of diversity in my veggies and fruits. 00;53;07;02 - 00;53;45;27 Maybe we need to fill in the gaps with vitamins, minerals and a quality multivitamin helps support our immune system as well. Especially, you know, it's this thick season that is like ramping up. So omega threes or some type of quality fish oil. Again, this is probably one of my foundational ones, just because there's so much benefit from a brain and a cognitive standpoint to just the information Harthill So trying to get a quality fish oil, omega 312, three grams a day is usually good enough of omega three. 00;53;45;27 - 00;54;20;08 So I would say those are pretty foundational. Now there's a million other supplements out there and some people may require probiotics or prebiotics, but those are usually a little bit more, I would say felt fine tuned if you need that based on, you know, your medical history, your digestion and things like that. Perry Perry Activity supplementation. I'm going to talk a little bit about, I guess, what we do here, the facility in Florida. 00;54;20;10 - 00;54;48;18 But honestly, I think the average, quote unquote, average Joe could also do this and benefit from it. But each morning I will set out a nitric oxide supplementation. So like a beet juice. So you can you can juice your own beets, you can find a quality beet juice supplement. But this is a vasodilator. So it's going to help increase your blood flow to get oxygen and nutrients to your working muscles. 00;54;48;18 - 00;55;14;18 So it's a great pre-workout to have, especially if maybe you're going out for a run or you're training for some long endurance activity. This would be a great pre-workout supplement to take. We also give beta alanine. So if you've ever taken a pre-workout that makes you feel a little tingly or itchy, it's probably the beta alanine in it, but we'll just give it straight up. 00;55;14;18 - 00;55;41;28 So I'm not adding in other things to that pre-workout. And this basically this will help with buffering the acidity build up in you, so it helps delay fatigue. So essentially, you can go longer or get more reps in and then caffeine. How do you want to touch on that a little bit? I do not give a stimulant when I'm giving out pre workouts to clients or athletes here. 00;55;42;00 - 00;56;20;25 Everybody reacts different to caffeine. It can act as a ergo genic aid. It has been shown to improve cognitive function like alertness, focus, also endurance activity. So that could be a consideration to do on the I would say recommendation because people are probably like how how much caffeine should I drink? 3 to 6 milligrams per EKG. So just to put that in more, I guess terms you can wrap your head around if you're a £150 person, that's probably going to be about 200 milligrams of caffeine. 00;56;20;25 - 00;56;52;23 So about two cups of coffee. And this is if you're using it as a ergo genic aid. So something that's going to help your performance. I will say some people don't respond to caffeine at all or don't respond well. It also can affect people sleep again. So I would not recommend doing like a massive amount or 200 plus milligrams of caffeine before like at nighttime or maybe even mid-afternoon. 00;56;52;23 - 00;57;26;27 Like I have to cut my coffee off about 12. So that doesn't disrupt my sleep. So that would be the only caveat there. But if it's in the morning that you're getting your training done, that could be something you consider to add your pre-workout. Post-workout Again, you do need do you need three things for Post-workout recovery? I say you want to rebuild a protein, refuel with carbs and rehydrate with water protein specifically again at quality whey or plant based protein. 00;57;27;04 - 00;57;34;22 You only need 20 grams of protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So try to shoot for at least that. 00;57;34;25 - 00;58;01;02 There is some smaller amino acids. I'm not going to get into everything, but particularly leucine, which is in most quality whey proteins. You're going to see a leucine amount in there. And this is the this is the actual amino acid that you need to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So it goes through the entire process. So you want to make sure that's in there. 00;58;01;04 - 00;58;21;19 And then carbs again, the carbohydrates are going to be dependent on one. What was what's your goal? Do you want to lose weight, gain weight, maintain way? If you're wanting to gain weight, you're probably going to have higher carbs in somebody want to lose weight in your post-workout How does it fit into your overall nutrition plan for the day? 00;58;21;19 - 00;58;59;02 So if you ate breakfast before you worked out and it's hitting post-workout hitting about the time you'd have a snack, maybe do have a carb in there. It might just be your next scheduled snack or meal. It doesn't have to be a supplement as a post-workout recovery. But yeah, if you're doing something that's very long duration, say you're training for something over 90 minutes or a couple hours, then you probably are going to want to be intentional with refueling with carbohydrates to replace some of those glycogen stores that you kind of burn through. 00;58;59;04 - 00;59;22;29 Yeah, those those would be my top ones. There's there's definitely a couple other things that I'll add into shakes here. But those I don't want to give too many recommendations because some things could be affected by, you know, if somebody is on medication and things like that. So those have to be considered when you're looking at supplements because there are interactions with a lot of medications. 00;59;22;29 - 00;59;55;23 So. Got it. Yep. So I mean, it's a good flow and I like how you organize it all. It's basically it's understanding, you know, the plants, the plants, the food, whatever food stuffs you're going to have as long as you're again, sending it to where it needs to go through the hydration component. That last part of the supplementation, when you start to get into manufactured supplementing, there's your role in and I'm going to say this with caution, you're rolling some sort of dice because you got to know how much you're having in these other areas. 00;59;55;24 - 01;00;31;20 And you can go down that Costco aisle and see that whole row of stuff to choose from. And you're thinking, maybe I want this because I'm not feeling a certain way. And then you can double down on that and have too much of it. Safe to say. Right. And you got to know where it's coming from. Right. And yeah, I do the the supplement Haitian conversation in a in a general sense, I have to be cautious about it because you don't know what someone's medical history looks like or their current nutrition intake. 01;00;31;23 - 01;00;58;19 But yeah, for the most part you do, you do excrete or you don't utilize anything that you're taking in excess. But there are certain things you can take in excess that can become toxic. So you do have to be careful with that. You did bring up a good point that I meant to mention is when we are picking out a supplement because it's not closely regulated by the FDA, I mean, you could find a supplement that looks great. 01;00;58;19 - 01;01;36;29 They try to sell it to you. It looks great. And what's on the label may not actually be in the supplement container, which is kind of scary. So I always tell people you want to make sure that the supplement is third party tested. So basically an unbiased company has come in. They have checked to make sure, okay, the labels aligning with what's in these containers and they check for banned substances, which I know most people, I mean, maybe they care about, but we probably don't it's not going to affect us as much because we're not getting drug tested like an athlete. 01;01;37;01 - 01;02;13;27 But they also check for like heavy metals and things like that, which I don't want a bunch of heavy metals added to my body. More so than they already are. So I would say like always check for a third party tester. There's a lot of there's NSF is a big one and form choice. USP there is being controlled substance group so there's quite a few typically when they do have a third party tester, the company will have that on the label because they pay a lot of money to get somebody else to come in and check their supplements. 01;02;13;29 - 01;02;34;12 If you don't see it on the label and you're curious, all you have to do and I keep tabs on my computer of this, but you just go to the third party testing company like I know NSF, for example. I can just type in like a supplement I'm looking for, say like a quality whey protein and it'll pop up with all the supplements that they've approved. 01;02;34;12 - 01;03;01;12 So that that makes it a little easier to identify what's actually been tested and what's what hasn't got it. Yeah, and I think that's the the the final thing that I'll comment on outside of the summary is the trust. I mentioned it earlier. Right. So and you about it any and I'm not going to name any particular brand or franchise or whatever I'm to say you trust right. 01;03;01;12 - 01;03;18;22 So you go into a place and you've got to you got to consider the people who are working in certain places, whether their level of knowledge to where they're advising and why they're advising it. Right. So you talked about selling, talked about you talked about some of these things where it's going to be marketed in some capacity to influence the outcome, the purchase. 01;03;18;25 - 01;03;45;21 Right. Right. The motive there is probably more driven to the individual's ability or incentive to direct you towards a particular product. And we have to understand that that it's we're talking about you. We're talking about your family, we're talking about your safety, we're talking about your health. So let's make sure that first things first, the basics are to introduce what you can have access to. 01;03;45;21 - 01;04;09;14 That is, for context, less harmful rights of water, hydration, food stuffs and all that stuff. It's when you get into the to the last component to where you start to add things to it, know who you're talking to, trust them through verifying. All right. And so you're talking about what you said is for those organizations, third party inspectors and things that. 01;04;09;16 - 01;04;28;25 But where are you going? Trust, too. You're speaking with the same way that you would feel like you can trust the family member, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'll do this right out of work for me. Okay. Maybe now I'll take that into consideration, and I'm going to go check with somebody that knows for sure. Because for me, I want to make sure that it's not going to put myself into harm's. 01;04;28;27 - 01;05;02;14 Right? Exactly. Yeah. Speak to a dietitian, your physician, even I would recommend a dietitian if you can. But physicians would be someone who I would seek for, like deficiencies and things. And then maybe you could work with a dietitian as well to help see what would be a quality supplement. But again, like supplementation is the last consideration. So we don't we don't really need to think about this if our diet is crap, Right. 01;05;02;14 - 01;05;20;14 Well, that's the thing. And and you don't realize it is because you didn't do you didn't do the little bit of effort that goes up front to understand what the basic foundations can include. And you now become more aware of the values and the benefits which hopefully this conversation introduced. Couple of nuggets for people to realize. It's pretty simple. 01;05;20;14 - 01;05;41;14 If you just take if you know what to look for and what to ask and who to speak with. But I think finally, if you think about it, the easy, the easy consumerism element is to say, Oh yeah, I feel that way. Go get an energy drink that'll pump you up and you'll be good to go right? Well, everything that we just talked about, you could be undermining all of those things because now it could. 01;05;41;21 - 01;06;14;27 Like anything else, you've food yourself or you've convinced on, say for yourself, you convinced yourself to believe that that's an element that you can incorporate in your habit, which is taking you away from the core of what you need to do for your body at your age, in your environment and all these types of things. So exactly. And like if you are meeting like an energy drink or coffee because you're you're sluggish or your drag and by the afternoon, like, I think that's a great time to be like, let me reflect on what I've been doing. 01;06;14;29 - 01;06;37;21 Something's probably missing. Yeah, why am I feeling that way? So, yeah, on the go influences decision making, which is also influenced by a lack of nutrition. So again, you know, you got to think about why you're thinking about it, which is this redundant, cyclic approach to knowing yourself better so you don't do easy. Easy is not all the time the choice that you want to make. 01;06;37;24 - 01;07;21;16 Mm hmm. Okay, great. Anything else? There's a lot of things, but yeah, these. I think this is a good, like, foundational, high level overview. Like these. These are good places to start hydration and then looking at your meal and stack composition, I think those are good places to start and everything else is fine tuning. Yep. Gotcha. So it's it's the three, three simple areas to focus on the foundations and then some of the other areas you can consider on you know, so the sleep and the rest making sure you're getting that because it has an, an impact, it affects you avoid the things that prevent that. 01;07;21;22 - 01;07;44;22 So whatever it is, you know, alcohol or stress or, you know, other factors that we did talk about with John, you know, the TV and these distract these mental can have you thinking about things too much before you go to bed and things like that. You want you want rest and recovery and then the hydration assists with that along with getting the nutrients to the body. 01;07;44;29 - 01;08;07;10 Right. And I'm saying that at a high level because I'm not you. Right. But you know, you got to send it. So drink, drink fluids and then the macros, the carbs, the proteins, the fats, the fruits and veggies, coloring matters, the balance matters. Knowing what's in each of these things at certain times based off your activity level, which is going back to the other conversations of the goals and the planning. 01;08;07;12 - 01;08;26;19 And when you understand what you're trying to achieve, you know how to split it up and you know when you're going to become familiar and then you dial it in, the more that you do it, the repetitions that you put into it, the better the habit forming situation you find yourself in. So you can now look at it holistically and say, Is it working or not? 01;08;26;19 - 01;08;41;05 In these scenarios, I know my base, I've increase my baseline based off my activity levels, which is increase because now I understand what I'm putting in my body. I know what the output is going to come to. I know how to make sure I'm putting things back where they need to be when, when they need to be there. 01;08;41;07 - 01;09;31;18 And then finally the supplementation. It's an option, but be specific, be intentional, educate yourself, find the right source of information. You make a choice. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Nutrition. Nutrition is key and being consistent is key. And being intentional is key. So be intentional about fueling your body with the foods and the liquids that it needs to optimize your performance and be intentional about the foods or the liquids that you don't necessarily fuel your goal or fuel your performance, but the things that you truly enjoy because that for me helps my mindset too, which wraps into all the other three pillars. 01;09;31;20 - 01;10;03;01 Yeah, no, it's it's easy to connect. I mean, all of you that have spoken to this with Exos, all of you within Exos, we've spoken to these things. It makes sense and the logical order plus the consistency in the terms you're using. It demonstrates the discipline that you all have towards understanding what it is that somebody like me would come into this situation and talking to somebody like you and not know you're helping that you're speaking at our level, you're coming to our level to be able to help us understand where we're at. 01;10;03;03 - 01;10;30;20 And and you're right, I'm sure there's tons more that you could get into, but I will say that. And so any any closing remarks? No, thank you. Thank you for having me. This was awesome. And I'm looking forward to hearing all the other intelligent Exos employees because you've already had some very smart people on this podcast. So I learned just from listening to them. 01;10;30;20 - 01;11;03;07 So it's been great. Thank you for letting me share a little bit of the cable. Keep it simple. Stupid information that I have now. You're solid and you are in that class, so I appreciate you your time, the knowledge you shared, or the information you shared, hopefully to build knowledge for anybody listening, as always. Well, how would if anybody if you're if you're open to it, if anybody was interested in connecting, what are the main methods that one could use? 01;11;03;10 - 01;11;28;23 Yeah. LinkedIn's are always an option. I'm happy receive emails. So it's just J. Mason J ASU in Team Access WSJ.com. So feel free to shoot me an email if you have a question or a follow up. Or maybe there's some research. You found that conflict. Something that I said. I love to see it. Send it to me. Got it. 01;11;28;27 - 01;11;32;17 Thank you so much, Jana. All right, everyone, keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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EXOS: Sleep and Optimized Performance with John Stemmerman 1:13:30

1 year1:13:30

1:13:30

Did you know…about 50-70 million Americans suffer from some sort of sleep disorder? If you average less than 6 hours of sleep per day you are 7.5 times to have a higher BMI. Yes, sleep is important for a variety of reasons. Ever wonder how you may find ways to connect what you do and how it affects sleep and how sleep affects what you do? We have it here. This one is for all levels and is essentially an above-average explanation of how sleep works by walking us through layers of details to explain cause and effect, motor control, memory, focus, immune system…any kind of cognitive function and sets it up with actionable items to connect how to optimize sleep and performance. From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-stemmerman-8a29969/ - sunderwood@teamexos.com - ahobgood@teamexos.com - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;16 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this fourth episode of our XO series, I'm joined by our guest, John STEMMER Min, senior vice president of Performance at Exos. 00;00;28;18 - 00;00;46;26 Did you know about 50 to 70 million Americans suffer from some sort of sleep disorder? Or how about if you have less than 6 hours of sleep, you are seven times more likely to have a higher BMI? Yep. Sleep is important for a variety of reasons. Ever wonder how you may find ways to connect what you do and how it affects sleep and how sleep affects what you do? 00;00;46;27 - 00;01;07;11 We have it here. This one is for all levels and is essentially an above average explanation of how sleep works. By walking us through layers of details to explain cause and effect, motor control, memory focused immune system and any cognitive functions, and sets it up with actionable items to connect how to optimize sleep and performance from individuals, athletes to businesses or military. 00;01;07;12 - 00;01;23;25 Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. John's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. John How's it going? 00;01;23;27 - 00;01;28;16 Speaker 2 Chris It's it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. Excited to dive into this topic. 00;01;28;23 - 00;01;58;18 Oh, you bet. No, it's pleasure and I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to come in here and share with us what we're talking about today is sleep. So, John Steadman, SVP of Performance from Exos, coming here to share not only a little bit about himself, how he came to be, where he where he is, like we had with Anthony and Stephan from our previous episodes and how it correlates to the, I assume, the purpose and the passion of the role that he's in and the desire to be able to extend it beyond the small circles. 00;01;58;18 - 00;02;11;18 And as far as the reach can be within Exos through clients and brand that's being built off the expertise of everybody that works there. So, John, if you wouldn't mind, take some time and let us know more about you. 00;02;11;21 - 00;02;12;08 Speaker 2 Appreciate that. 00;02;12;08 - 00;02;14;00 So I. 00;02;14;02 - 00;02;16;08 Speaker 2 Come from a Navy family, so I was actually born. 00;02;16;08 - 00;02;18;17 In Puerto Rico on a. 00;02;18;17 - 00;02;25;16 Speaker 2 Navy installation there. My dad had recently retired. I was stationed there. Both my parents were in the Navy. 00;02;25;19 - 00;02;27;00 Ended up moving to. 00;02;27;00 - 00;02;34;00 Speaker 2 Tampa, which I say I'm from in most conversations. Everybody asked me where I'm from in Tampa, Florida, and so. 00;02;34;07 - 00;02;37;17 I grew up doing a lot of things that probably a lot of. 00;02;37;17 - 00;02;38;22 Speaker 2 Your listeners. 00;02;38;24 - 00;02;47;19 Are doing. But I was very average in athletics. I played football player, did wrestling, did a lot of outdoor time. 00;02;47;19 - 00;02;49;26 Speaker 2 With my father. So hunting and fishing. 00;02;49;29 - 00;02;58;16 And that was probably the bulk of what I did growing up. I also loved working out and it was probably more for what? 00;02;58;19 - 00;03;00;08 Speaker 2 Because I think we're probably close to the same. 00;03;00;08 - 00;03;02;12 Age, but probably more. 00;03;02;12 - 00;03;08;21 Speaker 2 For the esthetic purposes and probably some of the sports performances versus where we are today in a. 00;03;08;21 - 00;03;11;02 Very. 00;03;11;05 - 00;03;14;06 Speaker 2 Kind of advanced CIMA performance optimization world. 00;03;14;07 - 00;03;16;20 Now. And you. 00;03;16;20 - 00;03;17;12 Speaker 2 May remember some of the. 00;03;17;12 - 00;03;19;21 Stuff, you know, the reader entering. 00;03;19;21 - 00;03;20;28 Speaker 2 £10 weight said. 00;03;21;00 - 00;03;21;05 That. 00;03;21;05 - 00;03;23;17 Speaker 2 Was in the porch of the garage and the bench. 00;03;23;17 - 00;03;27;23 That, you know, would normally fall apart. 00;03;27;25 - 00;03;31;20 And some of some of the weights with the sand inside the place, Right? 00;03;31;24 - 00;03;33;27 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's exactly right. 00;03;34;00 - 00;03;35;00 And had my. 00;03;35;00 - 00;03;37;12 Speaker 2 Muscle and fitness I would pick up at the grocery store every. 00;03;37;12 - 00;03;38;15 Day and you know. 00;03;38;15 - 00;03;40;01 Speaker 2 Joe readers ultimate bodybuilding. 00;03;40;01 - 00;03;41;14 So that was probably. 00;03;41;14 - 00;03;43;19 Speaker 2 The genesis of. 00;03;43;22 - 00;03;45;03 How I got into human. 00;03;45;03 - 00;03;50;12 Speaker 2 Performance. And at that point, it wasn't it wasn't the catalyst. It's I wanted to look decent with my shirt off. 00;03;50;12 - 00;03;51;10 And do a little bit. 00;03;51;10 - 00;03;52;18 Speaker 2 Better the sports. 00;03;52;21 - 00;03;55;12 That I was into. 00;03;55;14 - 00;03;57;15 Speaker 2 And as I was. 00;03;57;15 - 00;03;59;06 Kind of growing up and. 00;03;59;09 - 00;04;07;24 Speaker 2 Graduated high school, went to college, started kind of just getting my prerequisites underneath my belt, went to a community college, actually. 00;04;07;27 - 00;04;10;01 Before figuring out what I really wanted to. 00;04;10;01 - 00;04;11;28 Speaker 2 Do, was working full time. 00;04;12;00 - 00;04;13;15 Around that and. 00;04;13;15 - 00;04;15;06 Speaker 2 Finally realized that there's this. 00;04;15;12 - 00;04;18;18 Actually kind of growing job field where working. 00;04;18;18 - 00;04;20;09 Speaker 2 Out can be your job. And so. 00;04;20;16 - 00;04;20;17 I. 00;04;20;22 - 00;04;27;20 Speaker 2 Went to school for Physical education, got my degree from the University of South Florida. One of my internships. 00;04;27;20 - 00;04;29;02 Out of there landed me. 00;04;29;02 - 00;04;34;05 Speaker 2 And a location Sarasota, this small private gym, but it was also international coach. 00;04;34;05 - 00;04;35;21 For Olympic weightlifting. 00;04;35;24 - 00;04;38;29 Speaker 2 And his name's Rick Lansky, so he'd be one of my mentors. 00;04;39;01 - 00;04;39;29 Growing up. 00;04;40;02 - 00;04;52;08 Speaker 2 My internship turned into a job, which also turned into an introduction to another one of my mentors. His name's Jeff Stone, and that was with the Lassie Sports Performance, which was mostly at youth focused franchise model. 00;04;52;08 - 00;04;53;03 For for. 00;04;53;03 - 00;04;57;05 Speaker 2 Performance. It's been quite a few years there. 00;04;57;08 - 00;04;58;21 And some really other great. 00;04;58;21 - 00;04;59;15 Speaker 2 Mentors Corey. 00;04;59;15 - 00;05;02;01 Goodwin, Nathan Hoyt, and then. 00;05;02;03 - 00;05;03;12 Speaker 2 Just his own. 00;05;03;14 - 00;05;03;22 New. 00;05;03;22 - 00;05;09;27 Speaker 2 Mark Verstegen, Mark Steyn is the founder of Exos. So I started as Athletes performance in 1999. 00;05;09;29 - 00;05;10;08 And. 00;05;10;08 - 00;05;13;03 Speaker 2 Basically Jeff and Mark got the band back together and Jeff brought. 00;05;13;03 - 00;05;14;17 Me along. 00;05;14;19 - 00;05;15;23 Speaker 2 And kind of this inflection. 00;05;15;23 - 00;05;18;27 Point of kind of growth trajectory. 00;05;18;27 - 00;05;21;27 Speaker 2 For access at the time. 00;05;22;00 - 00;05;24;29 So that's kind of how I landed where I am. 00;05;25;01 - 00;05;32;26 Speaker 2 I've been there 17 years now, so I started with the organization in 26, pretty much a lowly strength coach performance specialist at the time. 00;05;32;26 - 00;05;34;07 And worked my way through. 00;05;34;07 - 00;05;36;11 Speaker 2 Various leadership positions. 00;05;36;12 - 00;05;39;04 And you know, where I am. 00;05;39;10 - 00;05;41;17 Speaker 2 Today is. 00;05;41;19 - 00;05;46;09 A very passionate role with a company that. 00;05;46;11 - 00;05;49;21 Speaker 2 Puts people first but humans first and. 00;05;49;23 - 00;05;50;27 Really is. 00;05;50;29 - 00;05;53;28 Speaker 2 You know, as Anthony realized before, seeking to understand. 00;05;54;01 - 00;05;55;03 How can we help. 00;05;55;06 - 00;05;58;19 Speaker 2 The person that shows up in front of us as well to. 00;05;58;22 - 00;06;01;12 In there. I've done a fair amount of work with kind of our. 00;06;01;12 - 00;06;05;17 Speaker 2 Tactical populations, whether that's through or some of our education. 00;06;05;20 - 00;06;06;18 That we've delivered. 00;06;06;19 - 00;06;16;01 Speaker 2 I spent a fair amount of time managing one of our first human performance contracts, which was part of the preservation of force and family, which was a so-called wide initiative. 00;06;16;04 - 00;06;17;09 We were one of the. 00;06;17;09 - 00;06;19;25 Speaker 2 Companies that supported. So basically. 00;06;19;25 - 00;06;20;24 Hiring. 00;06;20;26 - 00;06;24;21 Speaker 2 Practitioners across all domains to support that. 00;06;24;23 - 00;06;27;12 As well too. And I really do have a. 00;06;27;12 - 00;06;29;29 Speaker 2 Passion for the tactical space. 00;06;30;02 - 00;06;33;09 Coming from a military family and. 00;06;33;11 - 00;06;34;29 Speaker 2 Never had a chance to serve myself. 00;06;34;29 - 00;06;36;01 But have a really. 00;06;36;01 - 00;06;37;12 Speaker 2 Deep appreciation for. 00;06;37;12 - 00;06;38;14 People who are willing to put it. 00;06;38;14 - 00;06;49;16 Speaker 2 On the line as well as the family members that support them. And then even down to some events, we've run for Gold Star families in launching other kind of smaller contracts in. 00;06;49;19 - 00;06;49;28 Kind of. 00;06;49;28 - 00;06;53;29 Speaker 2 Backwoods European countries in support of DOD initiatives. 00;06;53;29 - 00;06;58;01 Where you're washing out a old garage. 00;06;58;01 - 00;06;59;20 Speaker 2 With fire hoses to set up. 00;06;59;20 - 00;07;00;04 Kind of. 00;07;00;04 - 00;07;01;11 Speaker 2 A austere training. 00;07;01;11 - 00;07;03;19 Environment and kind of. 00;07;03;22 - 00;07;05;00 Speaker 2 You know, those are some of the. 00;07;05;00 - 00;07;05;08 More. 00;07;05;08 - 00;07;06;11 Speaker 2 Interesting and. 00;07;06;15 - 00;07;06;23 Fun. 00;07;06;23 - 00;07;07;20 Speaker 2 Or times that I think. 00;07;07;20 - 00;07;09;13 I've had in my career. 00;07;09;15 - 00;07;39;07 You're setting it up. Those are a lot of the areas to where our people believe training used to be. So let's go back to what you started to talk about, because back in those days, people say eighties, nineties, the mindset was always trained. You never really you never really heard about sleep. I mean, you heard maybe about nutrition and that's when that nutrition, fad, fad, it's probably not a fad, but it's, you know back then it was, it was the saying, you know, all these nutrition supplement stores were coming and opening up and things like that. 00;07;39;10 - 00;08;07;28 Flex Magazine, Muscle and Fitness, you know, your magazine, all of those all of those sources of information obviously had to say pay for themselves. But they would have now the marketing and those elements to where there was a push to understand there was more along the lines of working out and how the supplements would work. But not a lot of information surrounding how you can sleep, how rest played, a factor in even between sets and things like that, because you had a bunch of different styles. 00;08;07;28 - 00;08;26;14 So the evolution of it all, we've heard from Steph and Anthony and now we'll hear from you how it all connects. So setting up between the plan, the nutrition element, let's let's get into it. So sleep, how do you how do you incorporate that? 00;08;26;17 - 00;08;27;08 Yeah. 00;08;27;10 - 00;08;28;06 Speaker 2 Let's, let's kind of. 00;08;28;06 - 00;08;28;22 Paint a real. 00;08;28;22 - 00;08;35;15 Speaker 2 Good picture just to have some context. So we've got to kind of the movement side that Anthony talked about. We're going to hit sleep, which is going to be a key. 00;08;35;17 - 00;08;37;12 Probably the number one recovery strategy. 00;08;37;12 - 00;08;39;04 Speaker 2 And I'm going to get into some of the details around. 00;08;39;04 - 00;08;40;08 That. 00;08;40;10 - 00;08;44;06 Speaker 2 Nutrition is a key one like we've already talked about. There's all this also is. 00;08;44;06 - 00;08;45;11 Idea that will be in. 00;08;45;11 - 00;08;52;27 Speaker 2 In some of our future episodes of reflection and basically values, motivators goals. 00;08;52;29 - 00;08;55;16 And you be aware of what's happening and in the. 00;08;55;18 - 00;09;03;08 Speaker 2 Real time awareness, how can you proactively set your up for success and reactively? Think about things like an air show as the completion of your day. Do you do. 00;09;03;08 - 00;09;04;23 An air of What did I do. 00;09;04;23 - 00;09;21;09 Speaker 2 Well today? What did I do? What today? What can I do better tomorrow? And then regulation, which I'll touch on a little bit in this probably just because it's a great strategy to support sleep. But how can you actually utilizing different strategies, leverage your nervous system to either Upregulate or Downregulate? So those are some key areas I would talk about. 00;09;21;09 - 00;09;23;12 So we're going. 00;09;23;12 - 00;09;26;27 Speaker 2 To dive into sleep, but those are kind of the main components that our team thinks about when. 00;09;26;27 - 00;09;27;12 We're putting. 00;09;27;12 - 00;09;28;17 Speaker 2 Things together as well too. 00;09;28;17 - 00;09;30;12 But yeah. 00;09;30;12 - 00;09;35;06 Speaker 2 We get into it in just, just for the audience. I'm not a sleep scientists. 00;09;35;09 - 00;09;37;29 I'm not a doctor or anything like that. 00;09;37;29 - 00;09;42;00 Speaker 2 Kind of the main sources that I've gotten this from and I'd recommend you checking this out. 00;09;42;03 - 00;09;42;11 Now. 00;09;42;11 - 00;09;42;27 Speaker 2 Walker is. 00;09;42;27 - 00;09;45;15 A really well known. 00;09;45;17 - 00;09;46;28 Speaker 2 Voice out there on sleep. 00;09;46;28 - 00;09;49;12 Probably the the eminent. 00;09;49;14 - 00;09;50;03 Speaker 2 Voice out there. 00;09;50;03 - 00;09;55;21 Currently, he's got a book out there called Why Why We Sleep. And he's. 00;09;55;21 - 00;09;57;13 Speaker 2 A professor of neuroscience and psychology. 00;09;57;18 - 00;09;58;00 Founder. 00;09;58;01 - 00;10;02;03 Speaker 2 Director of Center for Human Sleep Science. We've also got some information from the National Institute for. 00;10;02;03 - 00;10;02;16 Health. 00;10;02;17 - 00;10;05;17 Speaker 2 And the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. So those are kind of. 00;10;05;17 - 00;10;06;18 Three of our. 00;10;06;20 - 00;10;11;01 Speaker 2 Kind of main sources of the information. But essentially we. 00;10;11;01 - 00;10;11;26 Pulled and kind of. 00;10;12;01 - 00;10;14;16 Speaker 2 Brought this into a place where we can use that information and then. 00;10;14;16 - 00;10;16;20 Go forward and help somebody in. 00;10;16;20 - 00;10;18;29 Speaker 2 Front of us. Almost out of some questions. 00;10;18;29 - 00;10;22;12 And I know I know a little bit of your background and not a lot. 00;10;22;15 - 00;10;23;16 Speaker 2 How many hours of sleep do you. 00;10;23;16 - 00;10;25;24 Get per night on average. 00;10;25;26 - 00;10;26;26 Of. 00;10;26;28 - 00;10;36;04 Speaker 2 5 hours. So that doesn't surprise me a whole bunch when I get some stats here in a second. The intention is not to raise any fire alarms or anything like that, but just knowing you. 00;10;36;04 - 00;10;39;01 Have a bit of background in in the. 00;10;39;01 - 00;10;41;01 Speaker 2 Armed forces, it doesn't surprise me. 00;10;41;01 - 00;10;43;02 Either as that of like a. 00;10;43;02 - 00;10;43;11 Speaker 2 Nurture. 00;10;43;11 - 00;10;44;16 Standpoint or maybe a. 00;10;44;16 - 00;10;47;15 Speaker 2 Nature standpoint, like a genetic predisposition. 00;10;47;17 - 00;10;48;01 Do you know. 00;10;48;01 - 00;10;54;04 Speaker 2 Of any strategies to optimize sleep personally? Like if you're trying to get to sleep, do you have anything that you know that you can do, you can. 00;10;54;04 - 00;10;55;19 Pull out of your pocket that. 00;10;55;19 - 00;10;56;04 Speaker 2 You can try to. 00;10;56;04 - 00;10;57;02 Implement? 00;10;57;04 - 00;11;10;20 Yeah. So dark cover my eyes, obviously. Silence. Staying away from the light, either TV or phone within the time frame about an hour. 00;11;10;22 - 00;11;12;10 Speaker 2 So that's that's a lot of keep on zoom. 00;11;12;10 - 00;11;13;17 So my. 00;11;13;17 - 00;11;16;16 Speaker 2 Hope is we're going to go through this is what is sleep so. 00;11;16;16 - 00;11;18;01 Give a bit of a framework of what. 00;11;18;08 - 00;11;20;04 Speaker 2 Sleep actually is. 00;11;20;07 - 00;11;21;22 I think people intuitively know. 00;11;21;22 - 00;11;22;10 Speaker 2 What it is. 00;11;22;10 - 00;11;23;09 But give a little. 00;11;23;09 - 00;11;33;24 Speaker 2 Bit more details around it, why it's important that we sleep, and then some optimization strategies or concepts as well too. So that's kind of the journey I hope to take us on is what is it, why is it. 00;11;33;24 - 00;11;37;23 Important and how do you optimize it? 00;11;37;25 - 00;11;40;02 Speaker 2 Would you consider yourself you're probably turning into this. 00;11;40;04 - 00;11;43;16 A morning lark or a night owl? 00;11;43;19 - 00;11;45;00 Morning. 00;11;45;03 - 00;11;46;02 Speaker 2 So you're a person. I get so. 00;11;46;03 - 00;11;46;28 Probably early in the. 00;11;46;28 - 00;11;48;03 Speaker 2 Morning, just probably. 00;11;48;03 - 00;11;49;17 Without an alarm clock or anything like. 00;11;49;17 - 00;11;52;10 Speaker 2 That is is probably the situation. 00;11;52;10 - 00;11;54;12 For you. That is So we'll. 00;11;54;12 - 00;11;58;05 Speaker 2 Talk about that too. There's a genetic predisposition towards is people like yourself who. 00;11;58;05 - 00;12;00;16 Get up earlier in the morning naturally. 00;12;00;18 - 00;12;11;28 Speaker 2 Night owls which everybody's probably heard of people that tend to stay up later and sleep in later. And then there's kind of a blended between and it's kind of relatively evenly across thirds across population. 00;12;12;00 - 00;12;13;14 There'll be some evolutionary. 00;12;13;17 - 00;12;15;09 Speaker 2 Things around that. So if you imagine back. 00;12;15;09 - 00;12;17;08 In the cave, you got people I wake up. 00;12;17;08 - 00;12;18;28 Speaker 2 Early so they can keep an eye out on the rest of. 00;12;18;28 - 00;12;21;06 The clan or the tribe. You got. 00;12;21;06 - 00;12;24;08 Speaker 2 People that stay up late to kind of keep an eye on the rest of the tribe. 00;12;24;08 - 00;12;25;05 And then they kind of people in the. 00;12;25;05 - 00;12;27;14 Speaker 2 Middle. So sleep is. 00;12;27;14 - 00;12;28;26 Very. 00;12;28;28 - 00;12;30;16 Speaker 2 Precarious position. 00;12;30;18 - 00;12;33;20 Back in history of laying down for 8 hours. 00;12;33;22 - 00;12;35;09 Speaker 2 5 to 8 hours and sleeping. 00;12;35;09 - 00;12;36;08 In. 00;12;36;11 - 00;12;38;26 Speaker 2 A forest or environment where saber tooth cats. 00;12;38;26 - 00;12;41;12 And other tribe members are. 00;12;41;13 - 00;12;44;09 Speaker 2 Walking around. So some of the things are interesting. 00;12;44;09 - 00;12;44;27 Of kind of. 00;12;44;27 - 00;12;46;10 Speaker 2 Those differentials in waking. 00;12;46;10 - 00;12;48;10 Time and sleep and. 00;12;48;12 - 00;12;58;28 Speaker 2 Going to sleep times actually kind of have some evolutionary backgrounds to it. But here's some stats. Again, they're probably going to sound negative across the board is not intended to kind. 00;12;58;28 - 00;13;00;16 Of be a. 00;13;00;18 - 00;13;02;11 Speaker 2 Doomsday situation, but. 00;13;02;14 - 00;13;03;12 About 5070. 00;13;03;12 - 00;13;04;26 Speaker 2 Million Americans suffer from disordered. 00;13;04;26 - 00;13;07;00 Sleep. If you look at Three Mile Island. 00;13;07;00 - 00;13;23;14 Speaker 2 Chernobyl, Exxon Valdez, Space Shuttle Challenger, most of them have been found to have some sort of impact of sleep deficiency around those environments or situations. Since the industrial revolution, we've had about a 20% decrease in sleep. 00;13;23;15 - 00;13;24;10 Time. 00;13;24;12 - 00;13;27;18 Speaker 2 As a population for the most part. 00;13;27;20 - 00;13;28;18 If you think about one. 00;13;28;18 - 00;13;31;10 Speaker 2 Third of our lives are spent sleeping. 00;13;31;12 - 00;13;33;03 Which might be. 00;13;33;05 - 00;13;38;26 Speaker 2 Kind of like, Hey, this is a waste of time. But when we talk about the benefits, I think people will maybe change your mind. 00;13;38;28 - 00;13;39;20 If you have less. 00;13;39;20 - 00;14;03;08 Speaker 2 Than 6 hours of sleep, seven and a half times more likely to have a higher BMI as body mass index and also a three time greater risk of a coronary event, less than 5 hours of sleep increase of about 15% for all cause mortality, 20% increase in motor vehicle injuries, mostly around this kind of ideas of shift workers. 00;14;03;16 - 00;14;04;06 Or. 00;14;04;07 - 00;14;05;16 Speaker 2 Declining sleep. 00;14;05;18 - 00;14;06;17 And probably a lot of. 00;14;06;17 - 00;14;07;25 Speaker 2 Individuals from. 00;14;07;25 - 00;14;08;14 Your world or your. 00;14;08;14 - 00;14;12;04 Speaker 2 Population that have had to do their sleep patterns based off. 00;14;12;04 - 00;14;12;19 Of, you. 00;14;12;19 - 00;14;14;15 Speaker 2 Know, operational requirements or. 00;14;14;23 - 00;14;17;05 Shift work or whatever it might be. 00;14;17;07 - 00;14;24;20 Speaker 2 But about a 20% increase in motor vehicle injuries around daylight savings time. And that is just like in one hour shifts in that kind of sleep. And you see this kind of uptick. 00;14;24;20 - 00;14;26;16 In motor vehicle. 00;14;26;16 - 00;14;34;03 Speaker 2 Injuries. So indirect costs of this 1995 direct cost of a kind of sleep deficiency was around 13. 00;14;34;03 - 00;14;34;28 Point 9 billion. 00;14;34;28 - 00;14;38;25 Speaker 2 Dollars. In the US, indirect costs. 00;14;38;26 - 00;14;39;14 Around 100. 00;14;39;14 - 00;14;39;29 Speaker 2 And 50. 00;14;39;29 - 00;14;41;26 Billion per year. 00;14;41;28 - 00;14;59;15 Speaker 2 So this is medical costs around certain things. So kind of there's a direct financial impacts around sleep as well too. So just kind of some some stats to to put forward why we think sleep is so important. The inverse of all this is obviously you have better health outcomes. 00;14;59;15 - 00;14;59;29 Better. 00;15;00;09 - 00;15;01;03 Speaker 2 Down into function. 00;15;01;03 - 00;15;02;06 Better. 00;15;02;08 - 00;15;03;06 Speaker 2 Performance. 00;15;03;06 - 00;15;04;07 Better many. 00;15;04;07 - 00;15;04;15 Speaker 2 Things. 00;15;04;15 - 00;15;06;26 So yeah. 00;15;06;28 - 00;15;16;14 Speaker 2 So probably this kind of idea of what sleep is. So there's basically this idea of a circadian rhythm. I'm sure everybody sort of circadian rhythm is this natural. 00;15;16;14 - 00;15;19;06 Biological clock that the body. 00;15;19;06 - 00;15;43;21 Speaker 2 Has that is regulated by a few different functions. It's roughly 24 hours. It's just happenstance that the Earth's rotation is also 24 hours. And the sunrises and sunsets, you know, kind of those 12 to 16 hour marks outside of being in extreme latitudes and everything like that. So daylight or sunlight is kind of one of these. 00;15;43;21 - 00;15;44;27 Key. 00;15;44;29 - 00;15;47;09 Speaker 2 Triggers for sleep. 00;15;47;11 - 00;15;48;03 And you're probably like, well. 00;15;48;03 - 00;15;53;00 Speaker 2 Why should we sleep? So essentially this idea of maintaining homeostasis homeostasis is. 00;15;53;00 - 00;15;54;20 Abundant and all living. 00;15;54;20 - 00;15;58;09 Speaker 2 Things of when you get too hot, your body sweats to try to cool. 00;15;58;09 - 00;16;00;05 You down. 00;16;00;07 - 00;16;02;25 Speaker 2 So being able to balance things out. 00;16;02;27 - 00;16;03;10 We want to be. 00;16;03;10 - 00;16;14;06 Speaker 2 Able to kind of get to both ends of those things depending on the situation. But the body's always trying to find its balance on things. So sleep is one of those ways to balance out all the things that we go. 00;16;14;06 - 00;16;16;19 Through when we're awake. 00;16;16;22 - 00;16;34;16 Speaker 2 So sunlight, sunrises, as it basically starts to hit this little bundle of nerves in the hypothalamus suprachiasmatic nucleus, it's basically sampling light as it comes into your eyes and it basically starts to kick off all these processes and keeps your clock on time, essentially. So your circadian. 00;16;34;16 - 00;16;34;26 Rhythm. 00;16;34;26 - 00;16;36;26 Speaker 2 Or your clock is basically reset. 00;16;36;26 - 00;16;38;09 Every day with. 00;16;38;12 - 00;16;47;14 Speaker 2 This light stimulus coming in to the eye. And I kind of talked about the morning larks and the night owls. So we have different circadian rhythms for different people, right? So it's not an absolute there's very. 00;16;47;14 - 00;16;47;29 Rarely any. 00;16;47;29 - 00;16;50;03 Speaker 2 Absolutes in. 00;16;50;05 - 00;16;51;21 In human. 00;16;51;23 - 00;16;56;17 Speaker 2 Physiology or human performance, but outside of those. 00;16;56;17 - 00;16;57;02 Genetic. 00;16;57;02 - 00;16;59;15 Speaker 2 Waking and sleeping times, there's also. 00;16;59;22 - 00;17;00;13 Variable work. 00;17;00;13 - 00;17;07;12 Speaker 2 Schedules like shift work or military population. You have certain people that have to be all through the night. Some people are. 00;17;07;15 - 00;17;08;11 All through the day. 00;17;08;16 - 00;17;12;21 Speaker 2 And then also changing schedules, especially for like firefighters, etc., where they're like, oh 40. 00;17;12;21 - 00;17;13;22 Eight on. 00;17;13;25 - 00;17;14;20 Speaker 2 72 off. 00;17;14;20 - 00;17;16;07 Or whatever it might be. 00;17;16;09 - 00;17;22;11 Speaker 2 They're basically having to change through these schedules and they're trying to counterbalance this natural clock. 00;17;22;13 - 00;17;23;05 With a. 00;17;23;05 - 00;17;35;00 Speaker 2 Artificial clock that they're trying to impose upon their system that has a really strong influences on physiological processes that are going to make it challenging potentially for people to. 00;17;35;02 - 00;17;37;05 Not follow that kind of normal clock. 00;17;37;07 - 00;17;38;09 Speaker 2 On things as well, too. 00;17;38;09 - 00;17;39;03 So if we. 00;17;39;03 - 00;17;39;25 Speaker 2 Think of sleep. 00;17;39;26 - 00;17;40;08 We've got. 00;17;40;08 - 00;17;41;26 Speaker 2 Two things. We've got arousal. 00;17;41;29 - 00;17;43;17 And we've got. 00;17;43;19 - 00;17;52;20 Speaker 2 Sleepiness, and it's really a dance between multiple processes and hormones in the system. So if we just kind of take it. 00;17;52;20 - 00;17;54;08 To, you know, we're getting ready. 00;17;54;08 - 00;18;07;26 Speaker 2 For me, it's 7 p.m. on the East Coast for you, it's 5 p.m. ish on the West Coast. And so there's going to be a few things that will kind of start with sleepiness. And then I'll talk about wakefulness on the other side of it, since we're kind of on the back end of the day. 00;18;07;26 - 00;18;11;01 So throughout the course of the day. 00;18;11;03 - 00;18;19;19 Speaker 2 As you wake up, there's this hormone is dropped in. Our system is called adenosine. So. DAVIES And starts to accumulate throughout the course of the day. 00;18;19;22 - 00;18;20;29 Is going to be one of the main. 00;18;20;29 - 00;18;21;21 Speaker 2 Drivers. 00;18;21;21 - 00;18;23;20 Of. 00;18;23;22 - 00;18;26;28 Speaker 2 Making somebody sleepy. So as you kind of get through the course of the day. 00;18;27;00 - 00;18;27;26 You're having more and more. 00;18;27;26 - 00;18;32;00 Speaker 2 Adenosine get into the system and it basically turns down stimulus. 00;18;32;00 - 00;18;33;17 Within the body. 00;18;33;19 - 00;18;37;11 Speaker 2 And starts to turn on drowsiness. 00;18;37;13 - 00;18;39;03 What do you think might be. 00;18;39;04 - 00;18;40;17 Speaker 2 Something that a lot of people partake. 00;18;40;17 - 00;18;41;10 Of that might. 00;18;41;17 - 00;18;47;29 Speaker 2 Have some sort of relation to adenosine a relationship to it? And so when there's really something that you. 00;18;47;29 - 00;18;49;28 Might drink or eat. 00;18;50;01 - 00;18;52;14 Right out of the gate, alcohol. 00;18;52;16 - 00;18;53;22 Speaker 2 So alcohol we'll talk about. 00;18;53;22 - 00;18;54;24 Later, but caffeine. 00;18;55;00 - 00;18;55;18 Caffeine. 00;18;55;20 - 00;18;57;23 Okay. So kind of caffeine. 00;18;57;23 - 00;19;17;03 Speaker 2 Is something the reason caffeine kind of is one of those things that we go to on a regular basis is it basically blocks the receptors for adenosine. So that's what kind of caffeine does in order to kind of keep us awake, is it puts this block on the receptors in the system that pick up the adenosine, which is kind of getting this sleep urge. 00;19;17;03 - 00;19;19;24 Speaker 2 So it's basically this. 00;19;19;27 - 00;19;21;10 Increasing. 00;19;21;12 - 00;19;39;15 Speaker 2 Load of this hormone that's going to drive you to want to sleep. So caffeine puts a block on those. So adenosine doesn't just stop because you put some caffeine to your system. And as many people know and everybody's different, caffeine has this kind of half life of about 5 to 7 hours. So it kind of over the course of the afternoon, let's say you have a. 00;19;39;19 - 00;19;40;28 3 p.m. coffee. 00;19;41;00 - 00;19;46;23 Speaker 2 Basically, it's in your system all the way until 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 at night. 00;19;46;26 - 00;19;49;03 So you have coffee later than that. 00;19;49;05 - 00;20;01;22 Speaker 2 But essentially, adenosine is still accumulating in the system. And once that half life of caffeine wears off, you get hit with this huge surge of headiness in your system. And that kind of brings on this kind of caffeine crash for a lot of people. But that's this is one. 00;20;01;22 - 00;20;02;27 Of the main hormones. 00;20;02;27 - 00;20;10;12 Speaker 2 That's going to kind of put this sleep or sleep impetus or sleep pressure into our system. 00;20;10;14 - 00;20;11;28 You may have heard of melatonin. 00;20;12;00 - 00;20;13;15 Speaker 2 So melatonin is a supplement that a lot of. 00;20;13;15 - 00;20;13;29 People might. 00;20;13;29 - 00;20;15;25 Speaker 2 Use. 00;20;15;28 - 00;20;16;07 It's a. 00;20;16;07 - 00;20;19;27 Speaker 2 Messenger basically to tell the body sun is. 00;20;19;27 - 00;20;20;28 Going down. 00;20;21;01 - 00;20;28;09 Speaker 2 So, you know, within the first kind of couple of hours after the sun goes down, melatonin starts to kick in. It peaks after you go to sleep. 00;20;28;12 - 00;20;28;17 And. 00;20;28;17 - 00;20;31;22 Speaker 2 It doesn't create sleep. It basically is like. 00;20;31;26 - 00;20;33;13 The gun. 00;20;33;13 - 00;20;35;07 Speaker 2 Going off and it triggers. So it's basically the. 00;20;35;07 - 00;20;35;26 Gun. 00;20;35;26 - 00;20;45;25 Speaker 2 Is melatonin. So it doesn't have a direct impact to your sleep. It basically starts to kick off the processes through the system of sleep. 00;20;45;28 - 00;20;46;25 So sunlight. 00;20;46;28 - 00;20;49;22 Speaker 2 Is kind of direct counter to. 00;20;49;22 - 00;20;50;15 That or. 00;20;50;15 - 00;21;01;09 Speaker 2 As you kind of mentioned in some of your strategies, Blue light, which basically replicates sunlight, is something that will directly impact melatonin release. So that's what we're going to talk about when we talk about optimization is. 00;21;01;11 - 00;21;04;16 The role of blue light, not only natural. 00;21;04;16 - 00;21;21;11 Speaker 2 Blue light, so in morning or midday sun, but blue light from devices as well to but melatonin gets released, it starts to tell the rest of the systems in the body, okay, we're going to be going to sleep soon. So start to kind of ramp these things down as we go along. And then this idea of Java sort of it's. 00;21;21;16 - 00;21;22;09 Duba. 00;21;22;11 - 00;21;30;21 Speaker 2 It's another neuro transmitter that basically switches off our wakefulness systems in the body. So those are kind of the three main things as we get at sundown. 00;21;30;23 - 00;21;32;02 Through the course of the evening. 00;21;32;09 - 00;21;35;10 Speaker 2 Into after we lay our head down on the pillow is. 00;21;35;12 - 00;21;37;06 Kind of the three main. 00;21;37;08 - 00;21;38;12 Speaker 2 Hormones that. 00;21;38;12 - 00;21;38;23 Are going to. 00;21;38;29 - 00;21;44;13 Speaker 2 Start to get us into position and fall asleep. One thing's. 00;21;44;16 - 00;21;45;02 And then on the. 00;21;45;02 - 00;22;00;04 Speaker 2 Opposite side of that, we have the system that wakes up and it's important to talk about those because those are some things that people probably hear about too. So there's really that difference between all these hormonal processes, incremental increases in certain things, shutting off of other things as we kind of go. 00;22;00;04 - 00;22;03;04 Through the day. 00;22;03;06 - 00;22;07;20 Speaker 2 So some of the things for waking sunlight is for you waking up. This is called. 00;22;07;20 - 00;22;08;08 Five. 00;22;08;11 - 00;22;09;06 Speaker 2 Or 6 a.m. when. 00;22;09;06 - 00;22;11;07 You normally wake up. 00;22;11;10 - 00;22;19;11 Speaker 2 So histamine, which probably lot of people take around allergies or anything like that, but this starts to activate neurons in the brain that drive arousal and inhibit the neurons that. 00;22;19;11 - 00;22;19;23 Kind of. 00;22;20;01 - 00;22;23;18 Speaker 2 Promote sleep. So that's one thing that starts to get released kind of. 00;22;23;20 - 00;22;24;21 Early morning. 00;22;24;21 - 00;22;30;25 Speaker 2 As we start to get closer to sunrise. Dopamine, which a lot of people have heard about as far as kind of like that pleasure chemical. 00;22;30;25 - 00;22;31;26 That a lot of people. 00;22;31;26 - 00;22;52;26 Speaker 2 Get from various things. And we'll talk about that, too. It starts to turn off melatonin secretion. So basically it is a counter to melatonin. This idea of our Rex in hypo cream. So these are two hormones that get released that stimulate other neurons to release theirs and start to kick on this alertness. Fun facts. Somebody has narcolepsy. 00;22;52;29 - 00;22;55;23 They likely don't have more. 00;22;55;23 - 00;23;03;11 Speaker 2 Than like 10% of those two hormones in their system. So that's like a direct relation to narcolepsy, which is this kind of uncontrollable urge to sleep. 00;23;03;14 - 00;23;03;27 They don't have. 00;23;03;27 - 00;23;14;21 Speaker 2 Enough erection or have a clean English system. So that's kind of what's been attributed to narcolepsy. Serotonin helps regulate body temperature, which body temperature is one of the other key. 00;23;14;21 - 00;23;17;21 Circadian rhythm markers. 00;23;17;23 - 00;23;19;14 Speaker 2 Body temperature rises in the morning. 00;23;19;15 - 00;23;21;25 That tells your body to wake up. 00;23;21;27 - 00;23;28;19 Speaker 2 Body temperature goes down in the evening, tells your body to go to sleep. We're going to talk about temperature as well, too, is kind of one of. 00;23;28;20 - 00;23;30;15 The. 00;23;30;17 - 00;23;44;07 Speaker 2 Optimization strategies, norepinephrine, epinephrine, which are kind of your adrenaline cortisol, which a lot of people probably read, which is a stress hormone. But in this case, it's not stressful to have causal, it's stressful to have cortisol throughout the course of the day because it has a peak in the. 00;23;44;07 - 00;23;44;29 Morning. 00;23;45;01 - 00;24;17;03 Speaker 2 And then it tails off through the course of the day as well too. And then there's a pseudo choline, which we'll also talk about REM sleep, but it's kind of one of the key things around wakefulness as well too. So there's a major dance between homeostatic maintenance, circadian rhythm or a bunch of hormones that are interacting with each other and turning on and turning off certain buttons and levers to basically get us through this sequence of waking, going through the course of the day, getting to the evening, falling asleep, giving our sleep cycle, which I'll talk about. 00;24;17;03 - 00;24;18;00 Here in a couple. 00;24;18;01 - 00;24;23;07 Speaker 2 Minutes, and then going through that process over and over again as we go through our lives. 00;24;23;09 - 00;24;41;25 A huge chunk. So I mean, and I've said so thanks for breaking it down like that, because it does it walks you through all all the all the words, you know, depends on what your focus has been and what you've tried in the trial and error or trying to find a remedy and try to oh, I'm not doing this. 00;24;41;25 - 00;25;14;23 So let me get that. And then you research it and you come up with, you know, the melatonin, you know, the cortisol element, the stress, these factors, I'm connecting dots. Some of the things that immediately came up as you were talking through those things that you don't have addressed now. But because might get to them is, you know, if you're having trouble sleeping, how hard do we look at what's happening in the day or are we needing to look deeper into us as individuals from how our composition is in some of those things? 00;25;14;23 - 00;25;16;00 And obviously the nutrition. 00;25;16;00 - 00;25;16;29 Speaker 2 Factor in some of those. 00;25;16;29 - 00;25;18;14 Elements, it'll be both. 00;25;18;15 - 00;25;20;24 Speaker 2 So that stuff is going to be personal, but it also. 00;25;20;24 - 00;25;21;09 Be. 00;25;21;09 - 00;25;22;23 Speaker 2 Environmental as well. 00;25;22;26 - 00;25;41;07 Yeah, you know, the lights, the light just dawned on me a couple of things of, you know, lights on, lights off and how often you could be disrupted, you know, sleeping in the living room. You know, you have folks with family around, kids around. They're in and out and things like that. So the disruption on that and how you feel tired. 00;25;41;10 - 00;26;10;15 We can look we have a tendency to look at comfort as the cause of it. Oh, the couch is not comfortable, but it actually is all these other factors that way into that. Then it's the workouts. Just trying to trim this down a little bit. Then then it comes to workouts where if all of these things are going on the way they do, then one would be, you know, the best time to work out based off of what's starting to happen in the morning and then dissipates throughout the day and then turns back on in the evening. 00;26;10;18 - 00;26;21;06 You know, when when do we think about what we have to consider on optimizing the time of day based off of ourself when we can actually exert ourselves? 00;26;21;08 - 00;26;22;10 Speaker 2 You know, there's there's a. 00;26;22;10 - 00;26;24;11 Lot of a lot of pieces there that we don't need. 00;26;24;11 - 00;26;26;00 Speaker 2 To dissect a whole bunch. 00;26;26;02 - 00;26;26;20 I think one. 00;26;26;20 - 00;26;29;06 Speaker 2 Of the things that I came across is if you look at most world records that. 00;26;29;06 - 00;26;32;11 Are broken and, you know, athletic. 00;26;32;11 - 00;26;34;01 Speaker 2 Events, most of them were done in this early. 00;26;34;01 - 00;26;35;07 Afternoon. 00;26;35;09 - 00;26;36;28 Speaker 2 Point where essentially you've gone through training. 00;26;36;28 - 00;26;38;00 That morning, you probably. 00;26;38;00 - 00;26;39;13 Speaker 2 Hit this midday. 00;26;39;16 - 00;26;40;00 Wall. 00;26;40;00 - 00;26;43;05 Speaker 2 Which everybody kind of runs into, and they kind of this kicked back. 00;26;43;05 - 00;26;45;07 Up of, you know. 00;26;45;12 - 00;26;47;09 Speaker 2 Performance capacity. 00;26;47;11 - 00;26;49;10 That is usually. 00;26;49;10 - 00;26;50;27 Speaker 2 Maximized during that period of. 00;26;50;27 - 00;26;51;21 Time. 00;26;51;23 - 00;26;52;09 Speaker 2 That to your. 00;26;52;09 - 00;26;57;08 Workout is because it's all they're all integrated. They're all they're all. 00;26;57;08 - 00;27;07;15 Speaker 2 Part of a system. Right? So you can't exclude one to the other. And a lot of times they're best as influencers of of other things. But my first recommendation of working. 00;27;07;15 - 00;27;14;13 Out would be work out when you can work out as number one solution. 00;27;14;16 - 00;27;16;09 Speaker 2 I've talked to a lot of military personnel that. 00;27;16;09 - 00;27;16;24 Need a. 00;27;16;24 - 00;27;22;18 Speaker 2 Higher intensity training session to be able to mitigate stress in their system, to then allow. 00;27;22;18 - 00;27;24;13 Them to kind of be more calm. 00;27;24;13 - 00;27;25;26 Speaker 2 And relaxed. So it's actually a. 00;27;25;26 - 00;27;29;28 Key catalyst for them to. 00;27;29;28 - 00;27;30;26 Speaker 2 Be able to. 00;27;30;28 - 00;27;31;22 Be in a. 00;27;31;27 - 00;27;32;24 Speaker 2 Relaxed state. 00;27;32;26 - 00;27;33;23 To kind of get into a. 00;27;33;23 - 00;27;35;12 Speaker 2 Homeostasis versus being. 00;27;35;12 - 00;27;36;00 Pegged up. 00;27;36;00 - 00;27;37;17 Speaker 2 At a ten on a stress level. 00;27;37;17 - 00;27;45;04 Or, you know, a cognitive load level or whatever it might be for a lot of people, if you work out. 00;27;45;06 - 00;27;54;29 Speaker 2 Too intensely, too late at night, it still has a stimulus to your system that may impact your sleep as well, too. So, yeah, it's balancing the optimization of those, but also. 00;27;54;29 - 00;27;59;11 The reality of the world and and who we are and what we have to deal with on a day. 00;27;59;11 - 00;28;00;02 Speaker 2 To day basis. 00;28;00;02 - 00;28;03;14 So yeah, it is definitely a. 00;28;03;14 - 00;28;09;09 Speaker 2 Balancing act that hopefully we can help provide resources for through these conversations. 00;28;09;12 - 00;28;09;25 But yeah. 00;28;10;01 - 00;28;12;12 Speaker 2 It's, it's it's, it's up in everybody's individual. 00;28;12;12 - 00;28;14;19 So we got to help kind of find. 00;28;14;22 - 00;28;18;04 Speaker 2 A solution for each individual person. 00;28;18;06 - 00;28;21;03 Got it. Okay. 00;28;21;05 - 00;28;21;22 Cool. 00;28;21;25 - 00;28;25;00 Speaker 2 Be ready to talk around sleep cycles. 00;28;25;03 - 00;28;26;14 Let's go. 00;28;26;17 - 00;28;29;05 So kind of general. 00;28;29;08 - 00;28;31;14 Speaker 2 Term for this would be sleep architecture, right? 00;28;31;14 - 00;28;32;27 So we have. 00;28;32;27 - 00;28;38;06 Speaker 2 Wakefulness. Not to get too crazy into this, but wakefulness is kind of characterized by alpha waves. Alpha waves are. 00;28;38;06 - 00;28;39;24 Very high. 00;28;39;24 - 00;28;41;14 Speaker 2 Frequency, so lots of stuff going. 00;28;41;14 - 00;28;42;01 On. 00;28;42;03 - 00;28;44;10 Speaker 2 Low amplitude. So a lot of kind of it's just like. 00;28;44;10 - 00;28;45;27 A. 00;28;45;29 - 00;28;46;24 Speaker 2 Kind of scratch. 00;28;46;24 - 00;28;47;10 Mark going. 00;28;47;10 - 00;28;51;09 Speaker 2 Across a piece of paper. If you had a pencil in your hands as we get into. 00;28;51;09 - 00;28;54;07 Sleep and to kind of get the recommended. 00;28;54;07 - 00;28;57;15 Speaker 2 Amount of sleep is 79 hours. 00;28;57;17 - 00;29;03;21 So you're kind of in that five hour mark. A lot of people that you work with or come from your you're kind of. 00;29;03;21 - 00;29;06;10 Speaker 2 Worlds probably 5 to 6 is their. 00;29;06;10 - 00;29;09;13 Norm. Seven to. 00;29;09;13 - 00;29;10;05 Speaker 2 Nine is kind of the. 00;29;10;05 - 00;29;11;03 Recommended. 00;29;11;05 - 00;29;17;00 Speaker 2 Most of time. If I walk in a room, we talk about sleep is okay, raise your hand if you get more than 7 hours is less than 50% of people, regardless of. 00;29;17;03 - 00;29;20;10 Oh, we were talking to. 00;29;20;13 - 00;29;22;21 Speaker 2 So 7 to 9 hours is recommended. 00;29;22;24 - 00;29;24;05 There's reality in the world. 00;29;24;05 - 00;29;30;09 Speaker 2 But as we get into the architecture house that goes, it really kind of goes into this sequence of. 00;29;30;09 - 00;29;31;07 About 90 to. 00;29;31;07 - 00;29;37;22 Speaker 2 120 minute phases or stages. As we go through things, we have two main categories of sleep. 00;29;37;22 - 00;29;39;06 We have non rapid. 00;29;39;06 - 00;29;39;29 Speaker 2 Eye movement sleep. 00;29;40;04 - 00;29;42;06 So and REM and we have. 00;29;42;06 - 00;29;43;25 Speaker 2 REM sleep rapid. I haven't sleep. 00;29;43;25 - 00;29;45;29 A lot of people have probably heard about REM. 00;29;46;01 - 00;29;51;24 Speaker 2 Probably said, okay, that's it. My eyes are darting back and forth and that's usually when I'm dreaming, which those things are all true. 00;29;51;27 - 00;29;52;04 But we're. 00;29;52;04 - 00;29;53;18 Speaker 2 Going to kind of talk about each one of these just. 00;29;53;18 - 00;29;54;17 Quickly. 00;29;54;20 - 00;29;55;27 Speaker 2 As we kind of go into it. 00;29;55;28 - 00;29;59;29 It's kind of imagine like longitudinally. 00;30;00;01 - 00;30;01;26 Speaker 2 You know, a seven hour period and this is call it. 00;30;01;26 - 00;30;03;13 From 11. 00;30;03;13 - 00;30;07;06 Speaker 2 Pm to 7 a.m.. So 7 to 9 hours. 00;30;07;08 - 00;30;10;05 We're going to kind of go through and I want to kind of take. 00;30;10;07 - 00;30;13;16 Speaker 2 Visualize these kind of 90 minute segments as we go through. 00;30;13;18 - 00;30;14;26 So go to bed at 11. 00;30;14;26 - 00;30;15;25 Speaker 2 It starts a 90 minute. 00;30;15;25 - 00;30;17;21 Window in at around. 00;30;17;21 - 00;30;19;04 Speaker 2 1230, it starts another. 00;30;19;04 - 00;30;20;12 90 minute window. 00;30;20;15 - 00;30;22;05 Speaker 2 And then around 2 a.m. it starts another. 00;30;22;05 - 00;30;22;19 90 minute. 00;30;22;19 - 00;30;27;19 Speaker 2 Window. So that's kind of a good kind of visualization as we think about this. 00;30;27;21 - 00;30;30;27 You lay your head on the pillow, you know, as you go. 00;30;30;27 - 00;30;31;13 Speaker 2 Into sleep. 00;30;31;14 - 00;30;33;13 Immediately kind of run through. 00;30;33;13 - 00;30;39;16 Speaker 2 REM sleep and then into non-REM sleep. And there's four stages of non-REM sleep. 00;30;39;18 - 00;30;47;06 You have light non-REM one, and then late non-REM two. So late night light. 00;30;47;07 - 00;31;05;26 Speaker 2 non-REM one is around 1 to 7 minutes. So you set your head on a pillow, you get into stage one sleep and it's around 1 to 7 minutes, and then you transition down into non-REM sleep. Two more Stage two. You might spend about 10 to 25 minutes in that stage of sleep. There's a lot of things going on. 00;31;05;26 - 00;31;11;03 Speaker 2 You're transitioning out of these alpha waves in a kind of more fade away. So basically what's happening is the amplitude is getting. 00;31;11;03 - 00;31;11;29 Higher. 00;31;12;01 - 00;31;13;05 Speaker 2 And the frequency is getting a. 00;31;13;05 - 00;31;14;07 Little bit longer, but. 00;31;14;07 - 00;31;16;04 Speaker 2 It's kind of like interspersed. 00;31;16;06 - 00;31;19;00 Through here and then. 00;31;19;00 - 00;31;25;14 Speaker 2 We get into slow wave sleep. So there's stage three and stage four. So this is one of the kind of key things that. 00;31;25;14 - 00;31;29;14 Are one of the more important regions of sleep that a lot of things. 00;31;29;14 - 00;31;30;28 Speaker 2 Might impact. 00;31;31;00 - 00;31;32;20 And that we'll talk about a little bit later. 00;31;32;20 - 00;31;44;00 Speaker 2 But stage three sleep is kind of the first stage of slow wave sleep. Generally, Delta waves, which are basically these big synchronized waves of sleep that kind of look like a normal wave patterns. If there's any surfers that. 00;31;44;00 - 00;31;44;25 Are in the group. 00;31;44;28 - 00;31;45;28 Speaker 2 Kind of like a great swell. 00;31;45;28 - 00;31;46;21 Coming in. 00;31;46;23 - 00;31;57;06 Speaker 2 Essentially to be kind of be like these delta waves. So stage four is kind of the money stage in regards to non-REM sleep. So it's about 20 to 40 minutes. 00;31;57;09 - 00;31;57;25 And then what will. 00;31;57;25 - 00;32;05;27 Speaker 2 Happen is we'll start to kind of cycle up into stage three, back to stage two, and then we'll get to Ran. So we'll come back up during it, spend a little bit of time in. 00;32;05;27 - 00;32;07;09 REM and then we'll go. 00;32;07;09 - 00;32;12;11 Speaker 2 Right back down through stage 1 to 3 and four, spend some time on stage four, come back up to. 00;32;12;11 - 00;32;13;08 REM over that 90. 00;32;13;08 - 00;32;14;01 Speaker 2 Minutes. 00;32;14;03 - 00;32;16;11 Spend a little bit more time in REM. 00;32;16;14 - 00;32;24;01 Speaker 2 And as we get into the third, fourth, this, you start to see this kind of inverse relationship with slow wave sleep in REM sleep so. 00;32;24;01 - 00;32;25;01 Early in your. 00;32;25;02 - 00;32;27;26 Speaker 2 Night of sleep, you're prioritizing non-REM sleep, slow wave. 00;32;27;26 - 00;32;29;25 Sleep later in the. 00;32;30;00 - 00;32;36;23 Speaker 2 Sleep cycles or sleep architecture, you're starting to prioritize REM sleep. So it's kind of this body's. 00;32;36;25 - 00;32;37;07 Idea of. 00;32;37;07 - 00;32;38;25 Speaker 2 Going through this. And a good visual. 00;32;38;25 - 00;32;40;26 Might be you have anybody. 00;32;40;26 - 00;32;41;03 Speaker 2 That's. 00;32;41;03 - 00;32;42;24 Done like Woodcarving. 00;32;42;25 - 00;32;54;06 Speaker 2 You have a chunk of wood and you see something inside of it, you're going to start to hack away a bunch of that kind of big stuff. So that's really the non-REM sleep is basically memory consolidation, taking things out of short term memory, putting it into long term. 00;32;54;06 - 00;32;58;09 Memory and trying to clean everything up like drag a hard drive. 00;32;58;10 - 00;33;04;20 Speaker 2 Essentially. And then as you start to see it come through more, you start to do more finer detail word. That's kind of the REM sleep. So as you. 00;33;04;20 - 00;33;06;06 Kind of get through that later. 00;33;06;06 - 00;33;16;14 Speaker 2 On in that sleep cycle, you're doing more of the finer detail work as you've already taken away a lot of the other materials earlier in that cycle. So those are kind of the key sleep cycles. 00;33;16;16 - 00;33;18;03 That we kind of go go through in. 00;33;18;03 - 00;33;19;26 Speaker 2 Regards to sleep. 00;33;19;26 - 00;33;20;26 So non-REM. 00;33;20;26 - 00;33;24;20 Speaker 2 Sleep, REM sleep, the big buckets, four stages of non REM sleep. 00;33;24;20 - 00;33;25;08 All varying. 00;33;25;08 - 00;33;25;21 Speaker 2 Levels of. 00;33;25;21 - 00;33;27;04 Time. 00;33;27;07 - 00;33;40;00 Speaker 2 Slow wave sleep, which are stage three and stage four, really kind of what we want to make sure we're getting into. And then you have REM sleep as well too. So that's kind of how we run do that. If we kind of finish off. 00;33;40;00 - 00;33;40;09 REM. 00;33;40;14 - 00;33;49;24 Speaker 2 Anonymously, it's really kind of taking information, building them in a new skills, in fact. So that's really going to come into place of motor control or motor skills which are. 00;33;49;24 - 00;33;52;17 Learning memory. 00;33;52;20 - 00;33;54;27 Speaker 2 Focus, attention. 00;33;54;29 - 00;33;55;27 Any kind of cognitive. 00;33;55;27 - 00;33;56;20 Speaker 2 Functions are going to. 00;33;56;20 - 00;33;59;09 Really be important around that. 00;33;59;11 - 00;34;07;01 Speaker 2 REM sleep is very interesting because it's wavelengths like very much like wakefulness. So in REM sleep. 00;34;07;03 - 00;34;08;21 While we're dreaming. 00;34;08;23 - 00;34;12;20 Speaker 2 It's very interesting. We kind of get into this more wakefulness state in the brain. 00;34;12;20 - 00;34;13;16 But our body. 00;34;13;16 - 00;34;14;07 Speaker 2 Actually shuts. 00;34;14;07 - 00;34;15;16 Off our motor. 00;34;15;16 - 00;34;25;00 Speaker 2 Control outside of kind of like the unconscious respiratory things so that you're not acting out what you're actually seeing in your dreams. So it's kind of an interesting. 00;34;25;02 - 00;34;26;22 Dichotomy of. 00;34;26;24 - 00;34;30;09 Speaker 2 If you could just imagine if we always had our motor control while we were sleeping. 00;34;30;09 - 00;34;32;19 You never know what we would be doing. 00;34;32;21 - 00;34;47;03 Speaker 2 As well too. So REM sleep is very much around integration. So if non-REM sleep is this idea of reflection, taking information and building your skills, in fact, REM sleep is being able to kind of take that. 00;34;47;06 - 00;34;47;24 Integrated with. 00;34;47;24 - 00;34;52;05 Speaker 2 Past experiences, innovative insights, problem solving, and start to kind of. 00;34;52;05 - 00;34;54;18 Really create how you may go forward. 00;34;54;20 - 00;35;01;19 Speaker 2 And think about things, which is why a lot of times when I say sleep on it and come back and have a decision tomorrow. 00;35;01;21 - 00;35;02;12 Or you may. 00;35;02;12 - 00;35;03;10 Speaker 2 Have this kind of. 00;35;03;10 - 00;35;04;24 Lightbulb moment when you wake up in the. 00;35;04;24 - 00;35;08;26 Speaker 2 Morning is because as you were trying to solve a problem on the day prior. 00;35;08;28 - 00;35;10;04 You went to sleep, gone through. 00;35;10;04 - 00;35;14;00 Speaker 2 All your sleep cycles. During REM sleep, it actually started to connect to other things that were. 00;35;14;00 - 00;35;15;08 Already in your. 00;35;15;08 - 00;35;17;22 Speaker 2 System as far as these past memories. 00;35;17;25 - 00;35;18;17 And other. 00;35;18;17 - 00;35;20;28 Speaker 2 Insights. And then all of a sudden you had this kind of. 00;35;20;28 - 00;35;21;26 Unusual. 00;35;22;00 - 00;35;24;02 Speaker 2 Connection that allows you to kind of think of something in. 00;35;24;02 - 00;35;27;05 A new way and kind of realize that when you wake up. 00;35;27;08 - 00;35;52;28 So if I pause there for a second so there's just a grasp on maybe some to main common concepts or curiosities, I guess is the best way to say it. So non-REM time, memory and things like that, right? So if somebody is walking around on a daily activity and then the short term. Right. And assuming that there's nothing neurological affecting the individual, things like that. 00;35;52;28 - 00;36;10;12 But if it just seems to be noticeable on a regular basis that you're, you know, a name or, you know, what I do earlier today or yesterday, the busy week is that an indication of being affected by in the non non-REM phase? 00;36;10;12 - 00;36;13;07 Could be, It could be. And probably the way that I would try to. 00;36;13;07 - 00;36;14;06 Speaker 2 Validate something like. 00;36;14;06 - 00;36;15;23 That. 00;36;15;25 - 00;36;17;29 Speaker 2 You can just do simple questionnaires and a lot of. 00;36;17;29 - 00;36;19;14 People now then you might even have. 00;36;19;14 - 00;36;22;07 Speaker 2 One have some sort of I'll just call it Fitbit as a general. 00;36;22;07 - 00;36;23;17 Category like. 00;36;23;17 - 00;36;24;29 Speaker 2 Whether it's, you know, a strap they. 00;36;24;29 - 00;36;26;14 Wear or a ring they wear. 00;36;26;14 - 00;36;30;29 Speaker 2 And that's giving them sleep data, which we can have a quick conversation around. 00;36;31;01 - 00;36;31;26 Kind of the validity. 00;36;31;26 - 00;36;36;25 Speaker 2 Of those things. But usually some of the key things is do you wake up. 00;36;36;29 - 00;36;39;19 A lot of buck if you are if you need an. 00;36;39;19 - 00;36;42;21 Speaker 2 Alarm clock and you hit snooze four or five times. 00;36;42;24 - 00;36;43;08 That's probably. 00;36;43;08 - 00;36;44;08 Speaker 2 An indicator that you may not be. 00;36;44;08 - 00;36;45;09 Getting enough. 00;36;45;09 - 00;36;50;04 Speaker 2 Sleep. It's not an absolutely. Because again, everybody's different. 00;36;50;07 - 00;36;53;26 Quality of sleep like even one of the before all the Fitbit and. 00;36;53;26 - 00;36;59;04 Speaker 2 Things one of our key questions we had with our athletes was how long did you sleep last night? 00;36;59;06 - 00;37;01;14 What was the quality of your sleep? Do you feel. 00;37;01;14 - 00;37;06;06 Speaker 2 Rested? So if I took those three and kind of framed it against that. 00;37;06;09 - 00;37;07;17 And I feel like I might be dropping. 00;37;07;17 - 00;37;09;02 Speaker 2 Something here and there as far as remembering. 00;37;09;02 - 00;37;09;19 A name. 00;37;09;19 - 00;37;11;15 Speaker 2 Or I forgot that project, or I forgot. 00;37;11;15 - 00;37;11;28 That meeting. 00;37;11;28 - 00;37;16;04 Speaker 2 That I was supposed to go to is go back and look at sleep and say. 00;37;16;06 - 00;37;18;21 You know, am I getting enough sleep again? 00;37;18;23 - 00;37;21;25 Speaker 2 There's no absolutes. Do you sleep bar hours a night? 00;37;21;27 - 00;37;23;13 Many of the people in the. 00;37;23;13 - 00;37;28;28 Speaker 2 Audience sleep 6 hours a night. 70 known as the recommended. 00;37;29;00 - 00;37;32;11 But for you, are you waking up without alarm clocks? 00;37;32;14 - 00;37;34;05 Speaker 2 Do you feel rested? 00;37;34;08 - 00;37;35;20 And you know. 00;37;35;23 - 00;37;39;01 Speaker 2 What was the quality of your sleep? Did you get up a whole bunch of times or did you sleep all the way. 00;37;39;01 - 00;37;39;24 Through the night? 00;37;39;27 - 00;37;41;22 Speaker 2 If you said. 00;37;41;24 - 00;37;42;02 I. 00;37;42;02 - 00;37;49;13 Speaker 2 Said this news about three times and I woke up five times and I'm pretty tired, I would say we probably should talk about your sleep and let's see if we. 00;37;49;13 - 00;37;50;13 Can help you. 00;37;50;15 - 00;37;56;17 Speaker 2 Optimize that. But I wouldn't say it's like a direct that is the answer, but it was worth a conversation. 00;37;56;19 - 00;37;57;16 Game at that point. 00;37;57;23 - 00;38;28;22 Yeah, I mean, there's obvious disclaimers on here. It's it's having to assess a whole bunch of variables. But this is, this is to those who know themselves well and pay attention to their to their individual scenarios. So the second one is the REM. The rest, this is where is this the part where you feel rested? If you hit REM for any amount of time and you've allowed your body to stop and disable the things so you can relax? 00;38;28;24 - 00;38;30;11 Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's interesting. 00;38;30;11 - 00;38;31;25 If you and this is what a. 00;38;31;25 - 00;38;36;23 Speaker 2 Lot of the studies will do, is they'll let's say somebody say, listen, we're going to we're not going to let you sleep for. 00;38;36;23 - 00;38;37;12 A night. 00;38;37;14 - 00;38;49;25 Speaker 2 Or two nights or we're going to only let you sleep 2 hours a night with a body will preferentially do kind of that catch up. Sleep is their prioritized non REM sleep. So non REM sleep is kind. 00;38;49;25 - 00;38;53;01 Of the brain's. 00;38;53;01 - 00;38;55;07 Speaker 2 Prioritization when it does get a chance to. 00;38;55;07 - 00;38;56;11 Sleep. 00;38;56;13 - 00;38;59;29 Speaker 2 Things. So the REM sleep. 00;39;00;03 - 00;39;03;08 I don't think is a direct or like it's because. 00;39;03;08 - 00;39;15;00 Speaker 2 You got into REM sleep this you're more rested I would probably say because you got into REM sleep. You were sleeping through a long enough cycle to go through that inverse kind of relationship of more non-REM at the beginning of your sleep. 00;39;15;00 - 00;39;17;25 And more REM later that you. 00;39;17;25 - 00;39;18;23 Speaker 2 Were sleep. 00;39;18;23 - 00;39;20;04 Longer. 00;39;20;06 - 00;39;21;14 Speaker 2 And again, I'm assuming later head down. 00;39;21;14 - 00;39;22;11 On the pillow. 00;39;22;13 - 00;39;25;07 Speaker 2 For 79 hours, not sleeping for 79 hours. 00;39;25;09 - 00;39;26;21 There only be getting. 00;39;26;25 - 00;39;31;10 Speaker 2 6 hours of sleep or six and a half hours of actual sleep. So I would say if we're. 00;39;31;10 - 00;39;33;28 Getting enough REM rapid eye movement. 00;39;33;28 - 00;39;37;16 Speaker 2 So that's kind of what REM stands for, is the concept of time. 00;39;37;17 - 00;39;37;25 It would be. 00;39;37;25 - 00;39;41;00 Speaker 2 Related to that particular brain state. 00;39;41;02 - 00;39;42;09 And dreaming. 00;39;42;12 - 00;39;46;26 Speaker 2 State. That means you got enough sleep in general, which hopefully means that you're feeling more rested. 00;39;46;28 - 00;39;47;25 Got it. 00;39;47;27 - 00;39;49;17 Okay. 00;39;49;19 - 00;39;50;10 Yeah, Hopefully. 00;39;50;10 - 00;39;51;25 Speaker 2 I'm not getting to. 00;39;51;28 - 00;39;53;05 Too in the in. 00;39;53;05 - 00;40;00;12 Speaker 2 The weeds here on anything. I hope to kind of bring it to a more actionable how do I use this personally for people? 00;40;00;14 - 00;40;06;01 Yeah, I feel like you're setting it up. I mean, for me. Oh yeah. No, no. Well, we'll find out. Are we. 00;40;06;04 - 00;40;09;14 We are. We are going to find out. 00;40;09;16 - 00;40;14;10 Speaker 2 So why sleep important, right? So we're putting ourselves in this very vulnerable position. 00;40;14;14 - 00;40;15;17 Of we are. 00;40;15;17 - 00;40;16;24 Speaker 2 Basically. 00;40;16;27 - 00;40;17;13 Unaware of. 00;40;17;13 - 00;40;21;14 Speaker 2 What's happening around us for 5 to 8 hours a day and any. 00;40;21;14 - 00;40;21;26 Myriad. 00;40;21;26 - 00;40;22;24 Speaker 2 Number of things could be. 00;40;22;24 - 00;40;24;11 Happening during that. 00;40;24;11 - 00;40;25;19 Speaker 2 Period of time. 00;40;25;21 - 00;40;27;15 So the fact that our body. 00;40;27;15 - 00;40;28;15 Speaker 2 Has its due, that. 00;40;28;17 - 00;40;29;03 Probably. 00;40;29;05 - 00;40;30;23 Speaker 2 To it's valuable, there's a need. 00;40;30;23 - 00;40;32;18 For it. 00;40;32;20 - 00;40;34;26 Speaker 2 We've kind of started to tap into some of these things. 00;40;34;26 - 00;40;37;05 But we're. 00;40;37;05 - 00;40;37;21 Speaker 2 Going to just start. 00;40;37;21 - 00;40;38;22 With brain. 00;40;38;25 - 00;40;39;21 Speaker 2 Capabilities. 00;40;39;21 - 00;40;42;05 So cognitive. 00;40;42;07 - 00;40;45;05 Speaker 2 Capabilities. So kind of this idea. 00;40;45;05 - 00;40;45;22 Of being able to. 00;40;45;22 - 00;40;58;26 Speaker 2 Be more focused, to have better decision making skills, more accuracy of things, which may be important to certain people on accuracy of numbers or accuracy at the range or accuracy on controls and helicopter. 00;40;58;26 - 00;41;01;05 Whatever it might be. 00;41;01;08 - 00;41;09;16 Speaker 2 So there's kind of timing. And time and time again, sleep deprivation has impacts to all of those kind of. 00;41;09;16 - 00;41;12;23 Cognitive capabilities and. 00;41;12;28 - 00;41;14;13 Speaker 2 Motor skills. So somebody learning. 00;41;14;13 - 00;41;14;28 A new. 00;41;14;28 - 00;41;16;21 Speaker 2 Physical task so. 00;41;16;23 - 00;41;17;16 That non-REM. 00;41;17;16 - 00;41;23;09 Speaker 2 Sleep where that is actually being cemented in there. So it's basically kind of taking a new skill or taking out a short term. 00;41;23;09 - 00;41;23;23 Memory and. 00;41;23;23 - 00;41;25;22 Speaker 2 Putting you into a hard term memory and kind of. 00;41;25;22 - 00;41;26;10 Cleaning out. 00;41;26;10 - 00;41;27;12 Speaker 2 All that extra stuff around. 00;41;27;12 - 00;41;29;11 It. So for. 00;41;29;11 - 00;41;31;08 Speaker 2 Athletes. 00;41;31;10 - 00;41;32;01 You know. 00;41;32;04 - 00;41;49;00 Speaker 2 Take a basketball player free, throw percentage improvements, accuracy in passing improvements, reduce injury actually around athletes, which is one of the vestiges of a generation, a higher incidence of injuries for them. Somebody in this audience listening to this. 00;41;49;03 - 00;41;50;19 Might need to be real creative in what they. 00;41;50;19 - 00;41;51;23 Speaker 2 Do. So they're trying to figure. 00;41;51;23 - 00;41;56;14 Out either a creative marketing plan or a creative coding. 00;41;56;14 - 00;41;58;00 Speaker 2 Or, you know, they're trying to figure. 00;41;58;00 - 00;41;59;14 Out a way to be a better leader within. 00;41;59;19 - 00;42;03;22 Speaker 2 Their team, whatever it might be. So REM sleep is kind of. 00;42;03;22 - 00;42;04;11 Where you're. 00;42;04;11 - 00;42;07;04 Speaker 2 Able to play in different sandboxes that you might. 00;42;07;07 - 00;42;09;09 Not normally think of when you're awake. 00;42;09;11 - 00;42;14;14 Speaker 2 To maybe play with some things in those playgrounds or those sandboxes that then. 00;42;14;14 - 00;42;16;22 When you are awake again. 00;42;16;24 - 00;42;21;12 Speaker 2 You can start to look at things through these kind of different eyes. And so that's kind of where we are. We talked about the REM sleep is kind. 00;42;21;12 - 00;42;22;13 Of really around that kind of. 00;42;22;13 - 00;42;28;13 Speaker 2 Creativity, being able to take new concepts and apply them in different ways in this kind of domain of sleep. 00;42;28;13 - 00;42;29;08 And then. 00;42;29;10 - 00;42;32;10 Speaker 2 Maybe realize something and then bring it to life. 00;42;32;12 - 00;42;36;06 In in real life or in awake. 00;42;36;09 - 00;42;39;18 Speaker 2 Memory. So back to kind of what we're talking about. 00;42;39;20 - 00;42;41;10 Improving sleep before learning. 00;42;41;10 - 00;42;50;01 Speaker 2 A new skill. So let's just say there's somebody on your team or somebody in the organization is getting ready to go to a class or a course, some sort of educational seminar or. 00;42;50;01 - 00;42;53;04 Whatever it might be, but you want to be able to prepare the brain. 00;42;53;04 - 00;42;54;02 Speaker 2 Proactively ahead. 00;42;54;02 - 00;42;55;03 Of that, whether through. 00;42;55;03 - 00;43;03;06 Speaker 2 Sleep, because that's essentially going to set it up for success. After learning that, saying you're basically hitting the save button on those memories. So again, we're going to talk. 00;43;03;06 - 00;43;03;28 About that a lot. 00;43;03;28 - 00;43;06;29 Speaker 2 But short term memory is kind of. 00;43;06;29 - 00;43;07;29 In that. 00;43;08;01 - 00;43;12;03 Speaker 2 non-REM sleep transfer to kind of the cortex, the brain during deep sleep. 00;43;12;03 - 00;43;13;05 And then integrated. 00;43;13;05 - 00;43;16;06 Speaker 2 During REM sleep. So I think that's kind of circling around what you said about, hey. 00;43;16;06 - 00;43;16;22 If I get around. 00;43;16;22 - 00;43;23;27 Speaker 2 Does that mean arrested? I think is really the combination of those two interplays between REM sleep and REM sleep. 00;43;23;29 - 00;43;41;19 So if I, if I could insert sorry, insert real quick in there because now if you're going to if you're going to you get tired. A nap. We talk about these catnaps, 15 minute, 30, 30 minute. You know the value does that now is that is that part of the plan that you can supplement with some of these things? 00;43;41;19 - 00;43;43;22 Speaker 2 That definitely can be part of the plan. And I. 00;43;43;22 - 00;43;45;03 Think more and more. 00;43;45;03 - 00;43;46;09 Speaker 2 There is less taboo. 00;43;46;09 - 00;43;47;15 Now. 00;43;47;18 - 00;43;52;17 Speaker 2 To nap in organizations. So that is kind of one of your key strategies. 00;43;52;17 - 00;43;53;07 Around that. 00;43;53;07 - 00;43;54;21 Speaker 2 Is 20 to 30. 00;43;54;21 - 00;43;56;26 Minute NAP usually don't want. 00;43;56;26 - 00;44;02;10 Speaker 2 To get too much longer than that because what happens is you start to slide down into those deeper sleep wave cycles and if you get kind of. 00;44;02;10 - 00;44;03;19 Woken up in. 00;44;03;22 - 00;44;04;24 Speaker 2 One of those, that's usually where. 00;44;04;24 - 00;44;07;07 You're a bit more groggy, kind of maybe waking up not. 00;44;07;07 - 00;44;08;25 Speaker 2 Knowing exactly kind of what's going on at. 00;44;08;25 - 00;44;10;13 The moment. 00;44;10;15 - 00;44;24;23 Speaker 2 Those types of things. So naps are definitely a key piece they've done a lot of studies with, and it's kind of where the Industrial Revolution has made have been impacts reduction of about 20% in our sleep as a population over that time. You go to a lot. 00;44;24;23 - 00;44;26;03 Of. 00;44;26;05 - 00;44;30;18 Speaker 2 The historical things. They've done some studies in Greece where you had two populations. 00;44;30;20 - 00;44;32;25 You know, where the older. 00;44;32;25 - 00;44;47;07 Speaker 2 Individuals are still taking naps these days and then you have the group that don't take naps. You have higher incidences of these kind of mortality factors for the ones that are not taking naps, but in specifically to like even just cognitive function. 00;44;47;09 - 00;44;48;14 Usain Bolt. 00;44;48;16 - 00;44;50;19 Speaker 2 Often will take naps prior to his kind. 00;44;50;19 - 00;44;51;01 Of. 00;44;51;01 - 00;45;00;19 Speaker 2 Record breaking sprint. So naps definitely have a place. Hopefully the taboo or stigma kind of is going away from those probably is probably. 00;45;00;19 - 00;45;01;16 Thrown in a little bit. 00;45;01;16 - 00;45;06;01 Speaker 2 More of an opportunity for some people to be able to catch a nap inside of their work days because maybe their work. 00;45;06;01 - 00;45;09;08 In remote or hybrid. 00;45;09;10 - 00;45;11;12 Speaker 2 But yes, that is a strategy that you want to kind. 00;45;11;12 - 00;45;14;09 Of have in your pocket should align up with how you might want to. 00;45;14;09 - 00;45;15;15 Speaker 2 Do things. 00;45;15;17 - 00;45;16;28 In kind of. 00;45;17;00 - 00;45;20;02 Speaker 2 The realities of doing that based off of work, culture. 00;45;20;04 - 00;45;21;11 Or family. 00;45;21;11 - 00;45;23;18 Speaker 2 Dynamics at home as well too. 00;45;23;20 - 00;45;26;19 Yeah, and you might be getting to this and I don't want to jump the gun on here, but. 00;45;26;20 - 00;45;28;09 You're good. 00;45;28;11 - 00;45;50;11 Pun for U.S. Bolt but you know it if there's people I mean maybe it's bravado. Maybe it's these other types of pride and factors that say, you know, I'm pushing through, I'm pushing through, I'm pushing through. But, you know, if your performance is going to decline and you measure time, you can say that something that you were trying to achieve within a certain amount of time was did took you longer to do that. 00;45;50;11 - 00;45;57;01 But if you if you'd taken the 15 to 20 minute nap without disrupting the sleep cycle, then maybe you would have a timer. 00;45;57;03 - 00;46;04;08 Speaker 2 That's 100% right. So if you're basing on outcomes versus how hard you ground yourself through something, your outcomes will likely be. 00;46;04;08 - 00;46;04;24 Better. 00;46;04;24 - 00;46;06;26 Speaker 2 When you're optimized. And that optimization may. 00;46;06;26 - 00;46;07;07 Include. 00;46;07;07 - 00;46;09;13 Speaker 2 Naps or other strategies. 00;46;09;15 - 00;46;10;20 There it is. All right. 00;46;10;20 - 00;46;14;19 Yeah. Emotional kind of. 00;46;14;19 - 00;46;21;06 Speaker 2 Reactions. So the middle is kind of the seat of all emotions as we get sleep deprived. 00;46;21;08 - 00;46;23;00 Deprived. 00;46;23;02 - 00;46;30;23 Speaker 2 Essentially what happens is it starts to become a bit more tuned to negative emotions and it's a bit more hyperactive. And so essentially you may be quicker to react to something in. 00;46;30;23 - 00;46;35;28 A more negative manner. It may lead to do at home. 00;46;36;01 - 00;46;42;06 Speaker 2 Arguments with a spouse or kids or whatever it might be. So it's kind of this. 00;46;42;09 - 00;46;43;27 Thing that if we don't have. 00;46;43;27 - 00;46;45;28 Speaker 2 That sleep, we're putting ourselves in more kind. 00;46;45;28 - 00;46;47;06 Of a. 00;46;47;08 - 00;46;49;26 Speaker 2 Situation where we might snap a bit easier or. 00;46;49;26 - 00;46;51;06 Quicker around. 00;46;51;07 - 00;46;52;05 Speaker 2 Certain things we need to react. 00;46;52;05 - 00;46;53;13 To and not give. 00;46;53;13 - 00;47;01;19 Speaker 2 Ourselves the time or space to maybe take a piece of information in or the way somebody said something or looked at us and be able to take a moment. 00;47;01;21 - 00;47;04;25 Reflect on it, how am I feeling about it? How can I react. 00;47;04;25 - 00;47;05;18 Speaker 2 To this and kind of. 00;47;05;18 - 00;47;06;01 Provide a. 00;47;06;01 - 00;47;10;27 Speaker 2 More reasonable reaction versus just kind of a snap judgment? 00;47;10;29 - 00;47;12;01 What goes along with that. 00;47;12;01 - 00;47;14;17 Speaker 2 Is your prefrontal cortex, which is really kind of like the CEO. 00;47;14;17 - 00;47;15;25 Of the brain. 00;47;15;28 - 00;47;19;04 Speaker 2 As you become sleep deprived, it diminishes the communication between. 00;47;19;05 - 00;47;20;29 The CEO and your. 00;47;20;29 - 00;47;26;27 Speaker 2 Emotional center. So that can override that kind of snap judgment or snap reaction. So essentially, you have. 00;47;26;27 - 00;47;28;08 Heightened emotional. 00;47;28;11 - 00;47;36;05 Speaker 2 With a slant towards the negative side without something in place to kind of use as a gate for that to go through. So those two things together. 00;47;36;07 - 00;47;36;23 Put. 00;47;36;25 - 00;47;38;22 Speaker 2 People in a situation where they may react in a more. 00;47;38;22 - 00;47;39;23 Negative manner. 00;47;39;26 - 00;47;42;10 Speaker 2 From an emotional standpoint. 00;47;42;12 - 00;47;43;00 I won't go into. 00;47;43;00 - 00;48;02;12 Speaker 2 All the details of the next one, but just kind of a new system and illness. So sleep as far as just like your normal general function, improving your sleep will optimize your cytokines, your T cells, natural killer cells. So these are all things that basically are there to react to. 00;48;02;14 - 00;48;03;16 Incoming. 00;48;03;18 - 00;48;05;04 Speaker 2 Pathogens. 00;48;05;07 - 00;48;09;04 Cold. So whatever it might be. 00;48;09;06 - 00;48;16;06 Speaker 2 So just general immune function, multiple studies around cardiovascular health, mostly due to our blood pressure. 00;48;16;06 - 00;48;18;08 So if you're. 00;48;18;08 - 00;48;28;22 Speaker 2 Not getting as much sleep, it starts to have a rise. Cortisol, which has a direct impact to blood pressure. So hypertension, heart attack, stroke. 00;48;28;24 - 00;48;29;03 Kind of all. 00;48;29;03 - 00;48;36;29 Speaker 2 Of the more interesting things arose around Alzheimer's. So this idea of being able to get enough sleep, especially this slow wave sleep, so that non-REM sleep that I was talking. 00;48;36;29 - 00;48;37;29 About. 00;48;38;01 - 00;48;56;18 Speaker 2 Allows the brain to kind of go through this cleaning function of this emphatic cleansing. So Alzheimer's, most of these amyloid proteins that get laid down and kind of congregate and that's kind of what is around Alzheimer's. And it might be a chicken or the egg thing in some situations of Alzheimer's creates worse sleep. 00;48;56;20 - 00;48;58;08 Hygiene or. 00;48;58;10 - 00;49;18;13 Speaker 2 Poor sleep hygiene. Maybe having an influence on Alzheimer's, but essentially more slow wave sleep. It allows this kind of cleansing process in the brain that pulls those amyloid proteins as well as other things out of the out of the brain tissue and allows the neurons to be a little bit more free of that stuff. So that's kind of an interesting thing that I found as well, too. 00;49;18;15 - 00;49;19;07 I imagine. 00;49;19;07 - 00;49;21;03 Speaker 2 A fair amount of people listening. 00;49;21;05 - 00;49;21;19 Might. 00;49;21;19 - 00;49;24;02 Speaker 2 Want to have a better body composition. 00;49;24;04 - 00;49;25;24 So maybe they want. 00;49;25;26 - 00;49;37;01 Speaker 2 To lose £5 or maybe they've gained £100 on different things. And there's a lot of factors in this one. The team talks about nutrition. It'll be a kind of nice. 00;49;37;04 - 00;49;37;21 Pull through on. 00;49;37;21 - 00;49;38;03 Speaker 2 That as well. 00;49;38;04 - 00;49;38;14 Too. 00;49;38;14 - 00;50;00;23 Speaker 2 But increased insulin resistance due to poor sleep. So essentially your insulin receptors on your cells kind of get closed off with this lack of sleep. So as the glucose in the system, the insulin is not able to pull that into the cells. So then you start to get into this pre-diabetic state. There's two specific hormones that are released. 00;50;00;26 - 00;50;02;08 If you are. 00;50;02;11 - 00;50;09;13 Speaker 2 Sleep deprived. So this green line, which basically stimulates appetite. So as you start to kind of get. 00;50;09;13 - 00;50;10;09 Pulled back on. 00;50;10;11 - 00;50;11;24 Speaker 2 Normalcy by a gene. 00;50;11;27 - 00;50;12;15 When you're. 00;50;12;15 - 00;50;13;09 Speaker 2 Awake, you're more. 00;50;13;09 - 00;50;16;20 Hungry, which means you're going to eat more often probably. 00;50;16;22 - 00;50;29;13 Speaker 2 And then leptin, which suppresses hunger. So you have these kind of two counterbalances to each other, breathing, which basically stimulates your appetite and leptin, which suppresses hunger. Your appetite stimulus goes up with decreased sleep. 00;50;29;13 - 00;50;30;13 And your. 00;50;30;16 - 00;50;38;08 Speaker 2 Suppression of hunger goes down. So basically that's an appetite or a recipe pun intended for. If we're. 00;50;38;08 - 00;50;40;02 Trying to do, I'd have. 00;50;40;04 - 00;50;47;25 Speaker 2 To burn more calories per day on things, which is probably going to be a challenge if you are trying to. 00;50;47;27 - 00;50;49;10 Maybe get a more. 00;50;49;10 - 00;50;53;24 Speaker 2 Optimized body composition, lose a few pounds or lose a lot of pounds depending on what you're having. 00;50;53;24 - 00;50;54;10 Or eating. 00;50;54;10 - 00;50;56;17 Speaker 2 Better for performance as well. 00;50;56;17 - 00;50;58;29 To growth hormone. 00;50;58;29 - 00;51;17;07 Speaker 2 Testosterone, those are two other hormones that are put into the system. So growth hormones usually release during that wave sleep so that non-REM sleep so early in the sleep cycle and testosterone testosterone during REM sleep. So for people, you know, let's just say the 40 to 50 year old males, as we kind of get. 00;51;17;07 - 00;51;18;20 Into that and I'm in that I mean. 00;51;18;20 - 00;51;26;08 Speaker 2 In that age bracket, testosterone is usually on the decline for trying to optimize testosterone, being able to get to that duration. So so we get REM is going to. 00;51;26;08 - 00;51;28;28 Be probably beneficial in maintaining. 00;51;28;28 - 00;51;32;23 Speaker 2 What you have from a total stress free testosterone capability as well. 00;51;32;23 - 00;51;34;09 Too. But you put all those. 00;51;34;09 - 00;51;36;05 Speaker 2 Together as far as. 00;51;36;08 - 00;51;37;12 Lethargy. 00;51;37;15 - 00;51;42;24 Speaker 2 Being lethargic, when you don't have that testosterone in the system, not having enough testosterone, testosterone and growth hormone in the system. 00;51;42;24 - 00;51;43;24 Paired with kind of an. 00;51;43;24 - 00;51;48;26 Speaker 2 Increased appetite, that's kind of a recipe for taking more calories in in. 00;51;48;26 - 00;51;49;13 You're burning. 00;51;49;13 - 00;51;53;09 Speaker 2 And that's going to have kind of some challenges for people that may be trying to lose weight. 00;51;53;11 - 00;51;55;03 So kind of just thinking about all. 00;51;55;03 - 00;51;56;11 Speaker 2 The different reasons why sleep is. 00;51;56;11 - 00;51;57;25 Important, cognitive. 00;51;58;02 - 00;52;01;04 Speaker 2 Immune system, basically hormonal profile in. 00;52;01;04 - 00;52;02;14 General body. 00;52;02;14 - 00;52;03;22 Speaker 2 Composition, most. 00;52;03;22 - 00;52;05;13 People are probably thinking. 00;52;05;13 - 00;52;06;20 Speaker 2 That those are important things to. 00;52;06;20 - 00;52;07;14 Them. 00;52;07;17 - 00;52;11;08 Speaker 2 For whatever reason. So sleep is definitely beneficial. 00;52;11;08 - 00;52;12;15 In. 00;52;12;18 - 00;52;13;28 Speaker 2 Creating the best. 00;52;14;01 - 00;52;16;00 Environment for you to be. 00;52;16;03 - 00;52;19;27 Speaker 2 At your best across all those areas. 00;52;19;29 - 00;52;44;28 How to. Yeah, so that's the interesting part also is the fact that the physical component, aside from the feeling of energy, it's the band I'm glad you brought it up the the ripple effect of now the diet, how your body's absorbing all the nutrients coming in there. Is it safe to say that with lack of sleep because of that, why it does that it's trying to preserve itself? 00;52;45;00 - 00;52;46;09 Speaker 2 I think just basically. 00;52;46;13 - 00;52;47;15 Decreased sleep. 00;52;47;18 - 00;52;49;02 Speaker 2 Basically is is. 00;52;49;02 - 00;52;49;17 Putting our. 00;52;49;17 - 00;53;00;06 Speaker 2 Hormones in our homeostasis homeostatic systems in a position where they just don't know how to deal with some of those things. So essentially they are just you know, go into these things are basically. 00;53;00;08 - 00;53;00;23 You might. 00;53;00;23 - 00;53;02;05 Speaker 2 Create energy. 00;53;02;08 - 00;53;03;04 For you to. 00;53;03;04 - 00;53;10;13 Speaker 2 Give you more caffeine through the course of the day. All of these things are basically trying to manage that homeostasis. 00;53;10;16 - 00;53;10;24 And. 00;53;10;24 - 00;53;11;21 Speaker 2 Try to keep up with your. 00;53;11;21 - 00;53;13;26 Circadian rhythm and depending on where you're at in. 00;53;13;26 - 00;53;17;06 Speaker 2 Relation to that, because that's really what steering. 00;53;17;08 - 00;53;18;07 Kind of where you're at in. 00;53;18;07 - 00;53;21;03 Speaker 2 Regards to to how long your sleep. 00;53;21;05 - 00;53;22;23 Got it. 00;53;22;25 - 00;53;28;05 Speaker 2 All right. You're ready to talk about how we can optimize to sleep. We started to kind of touch on a few of those. 00;53;28;13 - 00;53;32;18 Let's go. Probably number one is consistency. 00;53;32;20 - 00;53;40;09 Speaker 2 So trying to maintain the same time to go to bed in the same time that you wake up, even on the weekends. So a lot of people. 00;53;40;09 - 00;53;41;03 Were like, Man. 00;53;41;06 - 00;53;56;04 Speaker 2 I didn't get enough sleep through the course of the week. I'm going to catch up over the weekend. Not a bad strategy, but you don't want to try to be sleep in two or 3 hours. Passion, normal waking times. My assumption is you probably get up at the same time, whether it's a monday or it's a Sunday on things. 00;53;56;06 - 00;54;07;01 Speaker 2 So consistency is number one. It basically helps keep our circadian rhythm stable because there's a lot of kind of stimulants that go into that. And when I say stimulants light, which is the next thing we talk. 00;54;07;01 - 00;54;07;23 About. 00;54;07;25 - 00;54;09;12 Speaker 2 Body temperature. 00;54;09;15 - 00;54;09;28 Feeding. 00;54;09;28 - 00;54;19;00 Speaker 2 Windows, activity windows, those types of things. So light exposure is probably one of the biggest levers to pull on maintaining circadian rhythm. 00;54;19;02 - 00;54;19;12 I played. 00;54;19;12 - 00;54;20;00 Speaker 2 Around with this from. 00;54;20;00 - 00;54;23;13 My mother in law who was 84. 00;54;23;16 - 00;54;32;05 Speaker 2 Know she was in her apartment and she was basically staying in there all day long. She wouldn't get out of there and go do anything and she doesn't sleep very well. Cigna has a CPAP. 00;54;32;08 - 00;54;34;07 You know, sleeps till 11 and. 00;54;34;13 - 00;54;38;17 Speaker 2 Falls asleep frequently throughout the course of the day. That's relatively normal for kind. 00;54;38;17 - 00;54;41;02 Of our more elderly. 00;54;41;05 - 00;54;41;28 Speaker 2 Populations. 00;54;41;28 - 00;54;42;23 But we. 00;54;42;23 - 00;54;48;00 Speaker 2 Had a period of time where she was actually staying with us that we said, okay, we're going to go outside and spend 10 minutes on the sun. 00;54;48;03 - 00;54;49;18 Every morning. 00;54;49;20 - 00;54;51;04 Speaker 2 And basically it was interesting. 00;54;51;04 - 00;54;52;17 That we even with a couple of. 00;54;52;17 - 00;54;56;05 Speaker 2 Days, we started to notice some differences in her going to bed, sleeping. 00;54;56;05 - 00;54;56;20 Longer. 00;54;56;20 - 00;54;58;07 Speaker 2 And then also up. 00;54;58;07 - 00;54;59;19 A little bit earlier throughout the. 00;54;59;19 - 00;55;01;00 Speaker 2 Course of the day. 00;55;01;02 - 00;55;02;06 But if you can get out and. 00;55;02;06 - 00;55;08;27 Speaker 2 Everybody lives in different places, so if you're in Seattle, it might be a little bit more challenging than in Austin, Texas, or Florida or California. 00;55;08;27 - 00;55;12;04 Or wherever it might be. But morning light within about an. 00;55;12;04 - 00;55;14;08 Speaker 2 Hour of waking up is basically going. 00;55;14;08 - 00;55;16;01 To run that way through that. 00;55;16;03 - 00;55;30;21 Speaker 2 Super charismatic nucleus. And I talked about it's kind of like this light sensor that essentially is looking for that, that reset your circadian clock can get out for 5 to 10 minutes. You don't have to stare directly into the sun, but that's going to be one of the key low risk to pool. So seeing that. 00;55;30;21 - 00;55;31;21 And then on the other end of the. 00;55;31;21 - 00;55;32;18 Speaker 2 Day, so that's blue. 00;55;32;18 - 00;55;33;05 Light. 00;55;33;08 - 00;55;33;18 Speaker 2 So in the. 00;55;33;18 - 00;55;34;05 Morning and. 00;55;34;05 - 00;55;43;27 Speaker 2 Midday it's blue light, it's way, but it's basically the same wavelength as blue light, which is coming out of our devices, which we're inside one second by getting some. 00;55;44;00 - 00;55;44;09 Light. 00;55;44;09 - 00;55;47;14 Speaker 2 Exposure at the end of the day, which is going to be some of these more redder. 00;55;47;14 - 00;55;48;18 Wavelengths. 00;55;48;21 - 00;55;50;05 Speaker 2 Which basically start to kind of do a. 00;55;50;05 - 00;55;51;16 Little bit of melatonin. 00;55;51;16 - 00;55;55;22 Speaker 2 Stimulus in the system as well, too. So we want to reset the clock in the morning. 00;55;55;22 - 00;55;57;09 With light. 00;55;57;11 - 00;56;05;01 Speaker 2 As much as possible. And trying to be outside is probably as frequently as possible for people as as they can in their work environments. 00;56;05;04 - 00;56;05;07 And. 00;56;05;07 - 00;56;09;18 Speaker 2 Then trying to get a little bit of exposure to the sun as it goes down, if possible as well. 00;56;09;18 - 00;56;13;04 To blue light we're talking. 00;56;13;04 - 00;56;23;10 Speaker 2 About here in the second shows. I'm going to talk about essentially your disruptors and we're going to kind of we're going to paint a picture of probably one of the worst mixes of things in regards to sleep here, a couple of seconds. 00;56;23;12 - 00;56;24;02 Environment. 00;56;24;02 - 00;56;27;17 Speaker 2 You talked about some of these 60 degrees is kind of. 00;56;27;20 - 00;56;27;27 The. 00;56;28;02 - 00;56;28;19 Speaker 2 Temperature. 00;56;28;19 - 00;56;32;12 Of your environment. Ideally, we all know. 00;56;32;12 - 00;56;33;21 Speaker 2 That might be a challenge for certain. 00;56;33;21 - 00;56;35;04 People within their. 00;56;35;06 - 00;56;36;28 Speaker 2 Their homes. 00;56;37;00 - 00;56;37;14 But one of the. 00;56;37;14 - 00;56;44;10 Speaker 2 Key triggers to body to sleep is this drop in body temperature. And so it kind of interesting way to do this. 00;56;44;12 - 00;56;45;03 A lot of people might be. 00;56;45;03 - 00;56;48;17 Speaker 2 Playing with hot tubs or saunas or anything like that has to become a little bit more. 00;56;48;17 - 00;56;49;11 Prevalent. 00;56;49;13 - 00;56;50;16 Speaker 2 Getting a sauna. 00;56;50;16 - 00;56;52;03 Kind of later in the day might be like, well. 00;56;52;03 - 00;57;04;05 Speaker 2 Wait a second, you're raising my body temperature. But what your body's reaction is to that, this homeostasis that I talked about is is basically a little bit of an accelerator. On dropping your body temperature. So hot shower, hot bath, sauna. 00;57;04;08 - 00;57;06;17 Kind of in the evening time. 00;57;06;20 - 00;57;09;26 Speaker 2 Can actually be a nice trigger to kind of get your body temperature to start. 00;57;10;03 - 00;57;11;05 Dropping off quicker. 00;57;11;12 - 00;57;13;04 Speaker 2 Which will be a stimulant for you to start to go to. 00;57;13;04 - 00;57;15;21 Sleep in the room. 00;57;15;21 - 00;57;16;18 Speaker 2 Dark as possible. 00;57;16;25 - 00;57;17;20 So no. 00;57;17;20 - 00;57;20;19 Speaker 2 Lights if you need to blackout out shades. 00;57;20;21 - 00;57;21;27 Whatever it might be. 00;57;21;29 - 00;57;34;17 Speaker 2 Sound wise, there's probably a mix here, but quiet. Or if there is sound like a white noise machine or something stable. So where it's not changing noises, whereas basically trying to get through kind of like, hey, there's something. 00;57;34;17 - 00;57;36;01 Going on in the room. 00;57;36;04 - 00;57;38;26 Speaker 2 So your brain doesn't detect. It is. 00;57;38;28 - 00;57;40;19 Kind of like, Hey, you need to wake up now. 00;57;40;19 - 00;57;43;13 Speaker 2 Because there's something going on. It's like a stable sounds. 00;57;43;16 - 00;57;44;02 Like you're like. 00;57;44;03 - 00;57;53;03 Speaker 2 Have air conditioners or fans running, which are basically like white noise machines. So for me, it's kind of environmental standpoint. Temperature, light and sounds are going to be the. 00;57;53;03 - 00;57;54;01 Kind of three main. 00;57;54;07 - 00;57;56;08 Speaker 2 Pieces, light exposure being your. 00;57;56;08 - 00;57;57;08 Bigger louder to pull in. 00;57;57;08 - 00;58;07;18 Speaker 2 Regards to setting up your system from a circadian rhythm standpoint disruptors. This might hurt some people's feelings a little. 00;58;07;18 - 00;58;08;15 Bit, but alcohol. 00;58;08;21 - 00;58;09;01 Speaker 2 You talked. 00;58;09;01 - 00;58;10;05 About. 00;58;10;08 - 00;58;17;07 Speaker 2 Like a nice bourbon or glass of wine, just like the next person, but just realizing what it does. So it'll be a sedative. 00;58;17;09 - 00;58;17;16 In the. 00;58;17;16 - 00;58;22;27 Speaker 2 Beginning of sleep, but it ends up being a disruptor of kind of a sleep cycle. So it fragments your sleep. 00;58;22;29 - 00;58;23;08 And it. 00;58;23;08 - 00;58;24;12 Speaker 2 Impacts the. 00;58;24;12 - 00;58;25;02 Quality. 00;58;25;02 - 00;58;31;01 Speaker 2 And the duration of REM sleep. So it does have kind of that impact directly on that sleep cycle. 00;58;31;04 - 00;58;31;21 Caffeine. 00;58;31;28 - 00;58;33;26 Speaker 2 We've already talked about it. I drink coffee. 00;58;33;26 - 00;58;36;22 I wake up, I have my coffee in the morning. I it's. 00;58;36;22 - 00;58;43;04 Speaker 2 Interesting. I would religiously have coffee at about 3 p.m. every day. 00;58;43;06 - 00;58;43;23 I haven't been. 00;58;43;23 - 00;58;44;24 Speaker 2 Doing it as frequently. 00;58;44;24 - 00;58;46;07 Lately and I have been. 00;58;46;07 - 00;58;47;23 Speaker 2 Noticing that I think I'm sleeping. 00;58;47;23 - 00;58;51;28 Better, so I'm feeling like it might be part of the. 00;58;51;28 - 00;59;02;17 Speaker 2 Equation too, that personally I'm also the person that I'll say my wife's GP and I grew up in a Cuban family for 20 plus years and there's always the capacity to chew coffee after dinner. 00;59;02;17 - 00;59;03;09 And everything like that. 00;59;03;09 - 00;59;06;08 Speaker 2 And I can usually drink one of those and say it doesn't impact my. 00;59;06;08 - 00;59;08;09 Sleep deprived. 00;59;08;09 - 00;59;10;10 Speaker 2 Doesn't impact of falling asleep, but it definitely feels. 00;59;10;10 - 00;59;11;11 Like maybe. 00;59;11;13 - 00;59;27;10 Speaker 2 There is something to that personally that I'm starting to notice. Stress. Stress is a huge one because essentially it's driving this sympathetic nervous system tone, which essentially is cortisol and adrenaline getting dumped into the system. Pain for some of your people. So. 00;59;27;12 - 00;59;30;07 You know, coming out of. 00;59;30;10 - 00;59;31;23 Speaker 2 Armed Forces service. 00;59;32;00 - 00;59;33;00 But a lot of people are having. 00;59;33;00 - 00;59;43;01 Speaker 2 Injuries. They may have pain. That is something that they have to deal with on a daily basis. So pain is one of those things, especially through some of what Anthony talked about. It's like maybe there's these things you can do throughout the course of the. 00;59;43;01 - 00;59;43;23 Day. 00;59;43;25 - 00;59;48;01 Speaker 2 To to mitigate your pain through soft tissue strategies or just general movement strategies would be a. 00;59;48;01 - 00;59;49;04 Big one. 00;59;49;06 - 00;59;53;23 Speaker 2 As well too. But those are probably the four. 00;59;53;25 - 00;59;54;22 Kind of. 00;59;54;24 - 00;59;57;14 Speaker 2 Disrupters. So if I paint a picture. 00;59;57;14 - 01;00;01;11 Of work all day, don't eat well. 01;00;01;13 - 01;00;02;21 Speaker 2 Had a stressful day at work. 01;00;02;21 - 01;00;05;01 Got home. 01;00;05;03 - 01;00;07;21 Speaker 2 Didn't get any sunlight through the course of the day. 01;00;07;23 - 01;00;09;00 I'm on my phone. 01;00;09;00 - 01;00;10;11 Speaker 2 As I'm sitting on the couch. 01;00;10;11 - 01;00;15;04 Doomscrolling through whatever you are looking at at 11 p.m. at night. 01;00;15;05 - 01;00;17;27 Speaker 2 That is a perfect recipe for all things that will. 01;00;17;27 - 01;00;18;10 Not. 01;00;18;10 - 01;00;24;16 Speaker 2 Optimize your sleep. So unfortunately, many of it and I'm not saying I don't do that occasionally. 01;00;24;19 - 01;00;25;16 By just really. 01;00;25;16 - 01;00;26;11 Speaker 2 Realizing. 01;00;26;15 - 01;00;27;15 Blue light. 01;00;27;18 - 01;00;29;13 Speaker 2 Stress. 01;00;29;15 - 01;00;32;24 In those things, really being aware of how. 01;00;32;24 - 01;00;34;28 Speaker 2 You start to pull those away as you get closer to. 01;00;34;28 - 01;00;36;02 Bedtime. 01;00;36;05 - 01;00;39;01 Speaker 2 If possible as well to. 01;00;39;04 - 01;00;59;06 Go. Got it. So I mean, and I'm going to unpack some things here because you basically just I and there's no way I know this, but I'm willing to bet that there's a large percentage of people that you just called everybody out on that. Yeah. You don't go outside too often for too long. And then when you're inside, you probably eight later than you normally did. 01;00;59;06 - 01;01;16;03 And then you're watching TV or you're playing on your phone and or you're thinking about stuff as a result of either that or work related activity and you're stressed, you go there and you fool yourself into thinking, I'm just going to lay down here and think myself to sleep, right? 01;01;16;05 - 01;01;24;22 Speaker 2 One of the most interesting study to say, the one most interesting things that I've heard somebody say in the past, I can't remember who it is, is you can use your brain to think yourself to sleep. 01;01;24;24 - 01;01;27;06 So count sheets out the window. 01;01;27;09 - 01;01;27;28 Speaker 2 Count. She's out. 01;01;27;28 - 01;01;30;12 The window. I will give you a couple other kind of. 01;01;30;12 - 01;01;34;00 Speaker 2 Things that are maybe a replacement for counting sheep in a second. But let's keep running. 01;01;34;00 - 01;01;35;16 Through your your. 01;01;35;18 - 01;01;36;12 Speaker 2 Pieces that you wanted to. 01;01;36;12 - 01;01;36;19 Hit. 01;01;36;23 - 01;01;57;13 Yeah. So? So this is comes down to functional. So because we talked about earlier, if I'm interested in fitness and I'm going to find the day time of day that works best for me or when I can fit it in and I work out at night and then I'm cold, lunch is the thing. So I'm going to now come back in there and try to do recovery at night. 01;01;57;13 - 01;02;12;15 Cold plunge. Because you talked about how hot showers and heat and all that stuff will help. And then I'm going to eat for recovery meal after six. Real quick touch on that. Good idea or think about how you're going to be able to if you're going to do that then ex. 01;02;12;18 - 01;02;14;03 Yeah again no. 01;02;14;03 - 01;02;19;10 Speaker 2 Absolutes so work out depending on what the workout is later at night. 01;02;19;11 - 01;02;25;16 So I'm an afternoon workout. I prefer to workout in the afternoon personally. Again, everybody's. 01;02;25;16 - 01;02;28;13 Speaker 2 Doing different intensity of things, but it just people. 01;02;28;13 - 01;02;28;28 Are doing it at the. 01;02;28;28 - 01;02;33;21 Speaker 2 Higher intensity. They're going to CrossFit, they're going to go for Jiu-Jitsu, they're going. 01;02;33;21 - 01;02;36;05 To whatever it might be. 01;02;36;07 - 01;02;36;26 Speaker 2 That's going to have. 01;02;36;26 - 01;02;38;08 A upregulates. 01;02;38;08 - 01;02;43;27 Speaker 2 Already. Or sympathetic nervous system drives your system, which basically is, Hey, I need to be awake. 01;02;43;29 - 01;02;45;04 But again. 01;02;45;07 - 01;02;48;17 Speaker 2 There's things you can do to counterbalance domestic violence. I'll grab that in second. 01;02;48;19 - 01;02;54;05 The eating piece, depending on your eating 6 p.m. is probably not a bad time to eat, kind of depending on what your. 01;02;54;05 - 01;02;57;00 Speaker 2 Eating style is. And again, I'm not a dietitian. 01;02;57;02 - 01;02;57;25 You don't want anything. 01;02;57;25 - 01;02;58;10 Speaker 2 Like super. 01;02;58;10 - 01;02;58;29 Heavy. 01;02;58;29 - 01;03;01;17 Speaker 2 Greasy anything that's going to give you indigestion. 01;03;01;18 - 01;03;03;12 Kind of later at night. 01;03;03;15 - 01;03;07;02 Speaker 2 On things because that's just going to cause you distress. It's going to keep you away just from a pure. 01;03;07;02 - 01;03;07;25 Uncomfortable. 01;03;07;25 - 01;03;10;13 Speaker 2 Standpoint. I think there's some play inside of. 01;03;10;13 - 01;03;13;01 That evening feeding window. 01;03;13;03 - 01;03;31;27 Speaker 2 Cold plunge is interesting because for most people it has a direct, sympathetic nervous system response, i.e. I get adrenaline dumped into my system because this is a strep. My body's perceiving this as a stressful exercise. Now what we can talk about is how can you use regulation practices. 01;03;31;27 - 01;03;33;18 I.e. breathing. 01;03;33;20 - 01;03;36;07 Speaker 2 To control your response to that. 01;03;36;07 - 01;03;37;05 Cold water. 01;03;37;08 - 01;03;41;28 Speaker 2 Which is also more of a down regulatory standpoint. So that's one of the benefits of using stress to help. 01;03;41;28 - 01;03;42;26 You build. 01;03;42;26 - 01;03;47;24 Speaker 2 These capabilities around reacting to stress. So if you just had Copeland straight off. 01;03;47;24 - 01;03;48;07 Of it without. 01;03;48;08 - 01;03;53;08 Speaker 2 Like, well, how can you actually mitigate some of that stuff? For most people, that's going to keep them awake. 01;03;53;11 - 01;03;54;05 Now. 01;03;54;08 - 01;04;11;27 Speaker 2 A lot of times will do in our athlete centers will do this contrast bars that you'll do cold for a period of time and then hot for a period of time and then cold for a period of time hot. So you can also blend those two together as well. Doing cold plunge depending on what you're doing it for, whether it's a stress resilience. 01;04;12;04 - 01;04;12;26 Cognitive. 01;04;12;29 - 01;04;14;03 Speaker 2 Exercise. 01;04;14;06 - 01;04;14;16 Or I'm. 01;04;14;16 - 01;04;18;13 Speaker 2 Trying to reduce inflammation in my system because that's benefits of cold punch. 01;04;18;16 - 01;04;19;18 And I'm. 01;04;19;18 - 01;04;22;04 Speaker 2 Kind of to ends of the spectrum. 01;04;22;07 - 01;04;22;27 But can you pair. 01;04;22;27 - 01;04;23;14 Speaker 2 That with some. 01;04;23;14 - 01;04;25;05 Warm water or hot water. 01;04;25;07 - 01;04;28;20 Speaker 2 Posts and get the same benefits of that. 01;04;28;23 - 01;04;29;13 And can even. 01;04;29;13 - 01;04;33;20 Speaker 2 Utilize some breathing practices, which I'll talk about here in a second, which are some things you put in your back. 01;04;33;20 - 01;04;34;25 Pocket. 01;04;34;28 - 01;04;50;26 Speaker 2 As far as some other strategies as well too. So kind of first blush is like, man, that sounds like a recipe for not sleeping well. But I think it all depends, which is often when I say to certain situations, I think there's ways to play with that because also what time do you go to bed? 01;04;50;26 - 01;05;00;05 Chris So I'm in that that exception thing where I have I have an environment towards 1112 at night, waking up at five, 530 in the morning. 01;05;00;06 - 01;05;00;24 Yeah. 01;05;00;27 - 01;05;03;20 Speaker 2 So that's 6 p.m. kind of stimulus. 01;05;03;22 - 01;05;06;05 Going to bed that late. You got enough of a window. 01;05;06;05 - 01;05;11;11 Speaker 2 Where you could put enough strategies in place to offset that kind of stimulus to your system. 01;05;11;14 - 01;05;28;26 You got it then. So I'll take this minute. Just plug the game changer with die. That's part of the exercise is that cold plunge, trying to be able to understand how you can mitigate the stress reaction to it with the breath. So that's another XOs option out there for anybody listening and paying attention. 01;05;28;28 - 01;05;29;19 That's right. 01;05;29;22 - 01;05;31;08 Sorry to interrupt. Let's keep going. 01;05;31;10 - 01;05;39;25 Speaker 2 You're good. So outside of kind of what can I control for my environmental factors, i.e. temperature, light, sounds. 01;05;39;27 - 01;05;42;20 What can I know about disruptors. 01;05;42;23 - 01;05;44;09 Speaker 2 At least the knowledge around them? 01;05;44;11 - 01;05;45;09 I'll kwahol. 01;05;45;09 - 01;05;47;17 Speaker 2 Caffeine stress and. 01;05;47;19 - 01;05;47;25 There's. 01;05;47;25 - 01;06;00;04 Speaker 2 Some things you can start to do to kind of offset some of those things. Right? So one of the future episodes is going to be around this idea of regulation reflection. So if I take reflection as an easy one, real time awareness, how. 01;06;00;04 - 01;06;01;23 Am I feeling in the moment. 01;06;01;26 - 01;06;06;27 Speaker 2 Proactive reflection? How do I set myself up for success through visualization. 01;06;06;27 - 01;06;08;02 Or whatever it might be. 01;06;08;04 - 01;06;09;28 Speaker 2 Or setting some goals for myself? 01;06;10;00 - 01;06;12;12 And retroactive. 01;06;12;14 - 01;06;13;18 Speaker 2 Awareness? 01;06;13;21 - 01;06;15;02 Are know, how well. 01;06;15;02 - 01;06;15;12 Speaker 2 Did I do. 01;06;15;12 - 01;06;16;23 This? One of the. 01;06;16;23 - 01;06;19;12 Speaker 2 Things that is pretty beneficial so. 01;06;19;16 - 01;06;22;02 A lot of people Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night. 01;06;22;04 - 01;06;23;28 Or time? 01;06;24;00 - 01;06;27;27 Speaker 2 What is kind of one of the things that you notice when you wake up in the middle of the night? 01;06;27;27 - 01;06;29;18 You may go to the bathroom. 01;06;29;20 - 01;06;31;18 Speaker 2 But from a kind of thought process. 01;06;31;18 - 01;06;32;26 Standpoint, are you thinking about. 01;06;32;26 - 01;06;34;18 Speaker 2 It in particular? 01;06;34;20 - 01;06;39;06 Yeah, thinking about I feel like I'm missing something. 01;06;39;08 - 01;06;39;16 Speaker 2 So a. 01;06;39;16 - 01;06;40;01 Great way to. 01;06;40;01 - 01;06;41;02 Speaker 2 Approach something like that. 01;06;41;02 - 01;06;42;03 Would be. 01;06;42;05 - 01;06;45;06 Speaker 2 Hey, here's all the things that I'm tracking is important to me right now. 01;06;45;06 - 01;06;48;01 Let me write them down before I go to bed. 01;06;48;04 - 01;06;50;10 Speaker 2 So here's the three things that happened today. 01;06;50;10 - 01;06;51;03 That are on the. 01;06;51;03 - 01;06;54;26 Speaker 2 Minds. Let me write them down in some sort of actually set that I can do tomorrow. 01;06;54;26 - 01;06;56;15 When I'm awake. 01;06;56;17 - 01;06;58;11 Speaker 2 Hear the things that I know are just swirling. 01;06;58;11 - 01;06;59;05 Around me that I. 01;06;59;05 - 01;07;05;26 Speaker 2 Want to also write down. And here's the three things that I want to do tomorrow from a goal standpoint. So if you're going to just take and put that down. 01;07;05;26 - 01;07;06;28 On paper, you've. 01;07;06;28 - 01;07;08;10 Speaker 2 Captured it. So it's not like you're. 01;07;08;10 - 01;07;09;03 Worried about. 01;07;09;09 - 01;07;11;04 Speaker 2 Losing it necessarily. 01;07;11;06 - 01;07;14;11 You don't have to wake up thinking about it and be like, Oh, forgetting what? 01;07;14;11 - 01;07;22;06 Speaker 2 This the news. So you've captured it. It's a great way to do retrograde reflection for the day before. It's a great way to be proactive reflection for the day. 01;07;22;06 - 01;07;23;08 Coming up. 01;07;23;11 - 01;07;26;22 Speaker 2 And basically you can kind of put that down, put it in a book. So it's essentially a form of. 01;07;26;22 - 01;07;28;21 Diary keeping that. 01;07;28;21 - 01;07;32;02 Speaker 2 Hopefully get some of the stuff out of your brain onto a piece of paper so you don't have to. 01;07;32;02 - 01;07;33;03 Ruminate on it. 01;07;33;10 - 01;07;39;24 Got it. So it's basically purging the thought and increasing the chance for you to no longer wonder about it and during the sleep cycle. 01;07;40;01 - 01;07;42;29 Speaker 2 That's right. So essentially, when you are waking up. 01;07;43;01 - 01;07;45;15 Ideally an ideal world, you're probably waking up. 01;07;45;15 - 01;07;46;02 Speaker 2 Once in the. 01;07;46;02 - 01;07;46;15 Middle of the. 01;07;46;15 - 01;07;47;22 Speaker 2 Night to go to the restroom. 01;07;47;22 - 01;07;48;23 And then there's no other. 01;07;48;23 - 01;07;51;20 Speaker 2 Wake up. And again, there's all kinds of reasons for people. 01;07;51;20 - 01;07;52;05 To have. 01;07;52;05 - 01;07;53;04 Speaker 2 Periods where they wake up. 01;07;53;05 - 01;07;55;11 At night. But if. 01;07;55;11 - 01;07;56;24 Speaker 2 We can kind of shut down that. 01;07;56;25 - 01;07;57;04 Are. 01;07;57;07 - 01;08;00;13 Speaker 2 Waking going to go to the restroom. But now I'm starting to think about X. 01;08;00;16 - 01;08;00;28 If we can get. 01;08;00;28 - 01;08;09;12 Speaker 2 Rid of that, then you should be able to go right back to sleep. Hopefully as you get back into bed from from using the restroom, some other kind of things prior. 01;08;09;12 - 01;08;11;08 To going to bed is. 01;08;11;08 - 01;08;31;08 Speaker 2 People like to meditate. So meditation starts to move us kind of towards those brainwave patterns that are more representative obviously this idea of visualization, of kind of visualizing certain things, whether it's kind of a relaxing scene. So most things that we want to think about to tears for Sleep are going to be this idea of parasympathetic nervous system. 01;08;31;08 - 01;08;32;09 Tone or. 01;08;32;09 - 01;08;42;20 Speaker 2 Drive. So you have your rest and digest as opposed to your fight or flight nervous system responses. So you have sympathetic, which is. 01;08;42;25 - 01;08;43;22 Fight or flight. 01;08;43;25 - 01;09;03;00 Speaker 2 Parasympathetic rest and digest. So we want to be able to do as many things around parasympathetic nervous system activation as possible, which is kind of be this idea of your body trigger. So those things are all going to be in this different area of down regulatory regulation exercises. Breathing is a great one, so you can use breathing. 01;09;03;00 - 01;09;04;00 To do a lot of things. 01;09;04;00 - 01;09;06;21 Speaker 2 You can use it to regulate your system to get you ready. 01;09;06;21 - 01;09;09;28 For more action. 01;09;10;00 - 01;09;21;12 Speaker 2 Packed things you can you definitely use it to kind of down regulate your system so drive more vagal tone and so it's a great way easy kind of thing to take away from down regulatory. 01;09;21;12 - 01;09;21;28 Breathing. 01;09;21;28 - 01;09;25;26 Speaker 2 Is utilizing exhale that is longer. 01;09;25;26 - 01;09;26;04 Than the. 01;09;26;04 - 01;09;29;19 Speaker 2 Inhale so great example of that would be maybe something like a four, seven, eight. 01;09;29;19 - 01;09;31;20 Breathing pattern where you're going to inhale. 01;09;31;20 - 01;09;33;06 Speaker 2 For 4 seconds. 01;09;33;09 - 01;09;33;28 You're going to hold. 01;09;33;28 - 01;09;41;24 Speaker 2 It for 7 seconds, and then you're going to exhale on a control for 8 seconds. So basically a four second inhale and exhale. That's going to be. 01;09;41;24 - 01;09;42;29 A good breathing. 01;09;43;02 - 01;09;47;00 Speaker 2 Or something similar to that. That's going to be a regulatory. 01;09;47;02 - 01;09;48;02 Breathing pattern that will. 01;09;48;02 - 01;09;51;09 Speaker 2 Hopefully get you into more parasympathetic tone, which which puts you in a. 01;09;51;09 - 01;09;53;27 Better. 01;09;54;00 - 01;09;59;09 Speaker 2 Position to be more restful and allow those processes to happen, like we talked about. 01;09;59;09 - 01;09;59;23 At the beginning. 01;09;59;23 - 01;10;01;19 Speaker 2 Of the episode. 01;10;01;22 - 01;10;10;05 Or you can just every 12 minutes exhale as in, and then have everybody what's matter. 01;10;10;07 - 01;10;11;13 Well and breathe. 01;10;11;13 - 01;10;11;29 Speaker 2 Interestingly. 01;10;11;29 - 01;10;13;00 Enough. 01;10;13;03 - 01;10;19;12 Speaker 2 Physiological sigh just like what you did. That kind of auditory is actually another great thing to add into that. So if. 01;10;19;12 - 01;10;21;16 You added in that. 01;10;21;19 - 01;10;32;28 Speaker 2 When you're eight second exhale, that's even more bang for your buck. So you can either get a sympathy card from having somebody ask you what's wrong, or you can use it as kind of like a stimulant to get you to calm down. 01;10;33;00 - 01;10;37;19 I'll do the latter is I'll sound smarter. 01;10;37;22 - 01;10;38;25 So hopefully. 01;10;38;25 - 01;10;40;18 Speaker 2 There's some takeaways. 01;10;40;21 - 01;10;46;27 For people if you really break it down, quiet, no light. 01;10;46;29 - 01;10;50;22 Speaker 2 No stress. Get yourself in a mental state where it's going to optimize it. 01;10;50;27 - 01;10;51;21 Get rid of any. 01;10;51;21 - 01;10;59;21 Speaker 2 Negative thoughts, pull down a piece of paper. If you take those five things and mix them in whichever way works best for you, that's probably going to put you in a position to be successful. 01;10;59;23 - 01;11;05;20 It's outstanding. John, Appreciate it. And so is that is that that Did you cover it all? 01;11;05;22 - 01;11;07;07 I cover I cover the big rocks. 01;11;07;07 - 01;11;17;14 Speaker 2 So, yeah, let's let's wrap it there. I think if people can do that versus trying to get more information because there's all kinds of things around time zone jump strategies around that ship work. 01;11;17;17 - 01;11;18;04 Probably a lot of. 01;11;18;04 - 01;11;19;12 Speaker 2 Questions around. 01;11;19;19 - 01;11;20;04 You know. 01;11;20;04 - 01;11;28;12 Speaker 2 Different or supplements naps we heard So essentially that was one of my other ones. And there are some some gender differences around sleep. 01;11;28;12 - 01;11;32;24 But I think we hit the big rocks that people can hit the big rocks. I think they're hopefully. 01;11;32;24 - 01;11;34;08 Speaker 2 Going to be successful. 01;11;34;10 - 01;11;52;20 Well, without a doubt. I think, you know, the combination of thing, which is the benefit of what we're trying to do with Exos is partner up and then bring, you know, to dissect these things in a way which these episodes will produce is enough detail to get below the service, get off the wave tops, hit it maybe a foot or two down. 01;11;52;27 - 01;12;13;04 In the context of the analogy, right? It's deep enough to learn a little something, and then it's practical for you to apply. And then you put them together. You're talking about how you can work out, how you can rest, how you can eat right, drink right, and then spend time doing things throughout the day where it's little elements of what you just closed with the nuggets. 01;12;13;04 - 01;12;31;12 You know, just remember to do some of these things in these intervals, create a habit, and then we'll keep going. So It's it's good. I appreciate, John, everything that you're doing and then the help that you're providing us to do all these things with, you know, Anthony and and whoever's coming up next, talk about these next couple episodes. 01;12;31;12 - 01;12;33;24 Speaker 2 You'll you'll see some of the usual suspects, but we're going to. 01;12;33;24 - 01;12;36;17 Have a few. 01;12;36;19 - 01;12;39;12 Speaker 2 New faces come on as well to. 01;12;39;14 - 01;12;43;22 Good stuff, right, John? So any any closing remarks are we cover all. 01;12;43;25 - 01;12;45;12 I think we cover it all. I mean. 01;12;45;14 - 01;12;46;27 Speaker 2 Access is is here to. 01;12;46;27 - 01;12;47;23 Help, you know. 01;12;47;23 - 01;13;03;13 Speaker 2 Individuals like, yourself and teams get ready for the moments that matter to them. And this is one of the ways. So, you know, anybody that's interested out there, they can they can reach out to us. Let's see Microsoft.com is is our website and then go to this interested to to get more information solid. 01;13;03;16 - 01;13;21;07 All right cool then and I'll put all of this stuff again for everybody by now. You should know to put it in the description, I'll add some of the elements that we talked about in the summary and some links specifically what you mentioned earlier as far as additional ways to find out from other sources. Matt Walker and some other books in the links that you suggested. 01;13;21;07 - 01;13;24;20 And on that note, already, one key moving forward.…

MAVEN

1
EXOS: Performance Training Plans and Foundations with Anthony Hobgood 1:08:40

2 years1:08:40

1:08:40

Today we’re getting dialed into training plans and dig deeper into how we need to consider building foundations and how mindset, nutrition, movement, and recovery work together. If pain-free, functional movement is something you want to achieve, listen up, take notes, and go! Best quote I’ve heard in a while “It’s the simple things done savagely well”. Be consistent and find what works for you. From individuals and athletes to businesses or military…Be Ready as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - sunderwood@teamexos.com - ahobgood@teamexos.com - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;00 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. Thanks for listening. In our third episode of our XO series intended to break down the key ingredients of performance. 00;00;28;03 - 00;00;51;00 I'm joined once again by our guest, Anthony Hobgood, senior vice president of Methodology at XOs. Today, we're getting dialed into training plans and digging deeper into how we need to consider building foundations and how mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery work together. If pain free, functional movement is something you want to achieve. Listen up, take notes and go. Best quote I've heard in a while. 00;00;51;02 - 00;01;15;09 It's the simple things done savagely. Well, be consistent and find what works for you. From individuals, athletes to businesses or military. Be ready as we continue the mission to serve. Anthony's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;15;12 - 00;01;33;11 Anthony Welcome back. Chris Thanks. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, you got it. We got to bring you back. We had you first. You opened up. You gave us the high level summary of XOs, how it came to be. You told us a little bit about yourself, which gave us is the investment of the individual intentions. 00;01;33;11 - 00;01;57;26 The expertise comes from a place of experience. And so you bring that to Texas and clients and everybody that you're helping. But then talking about the different programs and things like that. And then we just had and in the second episode, talking about psychological drivers, performance capacity and functional state, which is a little bit deeper of getting a plan together, the things to consider before you start to improve yourself in different ways. 00;01;57;29 - 00;02;15;11 And if you're like me, where you can not do something for months and then remember that you used to do it that way and then go out and do it and never a good idea, because then you quickly realize that you're not what you used to be. That's true. So today, you know, we've got Anthony talking about the training plan and daily movement. 00;02;15;11 - 00;02;39;18 But that probably means that there's things that you will need to start with, with having the right mindset, taking things that you've learned from prior experiences, lessons learned. And I guess we're just going to get into it, right, Anthony? Yeah, let's do it. All right. I'll give it to you. Let's go. Yeah. So I would say that my my view of human performance and how do you take care of yourself? 00;02;39;20 - 00;03;08;24 Has strength has changed significantly over the last 20 years? And I say that because of, you know, the diverse experiences that we've had working at XOs, you know, working a lot with your your athlete population, whether it be young athletes all the way to veteran athletes. So, you know, training a college football player compared to training a 10 to 12 year NFL veteran, two very, very different individuals. 00;03;08;26 - 00;03;37;15 And so the lessons learned there also overlay to working with the tactical population by, you know, a lot of times was you know, I was telling that tactical guys who entered this week into our program you know you cannot model your training after the same model that the same approach that athletes take the training. Right. Because the way athletes train is not sustainable long term. 00;03;37;18 - 00;04;00;26 If you think about it, the average like if you're a really like if you're one of the best football players on earth, your career is over by the time you're 23, 24. Even if you go to the NFL, the average NFL career is three and a half years. 3.7, I think, specifically. So let's say you're 24 years old and you're done. 00;04;00;28 - 00;04;27;29 Well, if you're 24 years old in the tactical community, you're you're a baby, right? If you're 24 years old, you know, in special operations, you're the rookie. And so I work with guys in the military who are in their fifties. Right. Still still actively doing their jobs. Right. And so you can't take the same approach to training athletes as you train as you do in the military because of the you're dealing with something that's very, very different. 00;04;28;01 - 00;05;07;09 Now, here's what I've learned. If you if you want to if you want to improve your overall health, if you want to improve your performance, if you want to have sustainability, you have to be found like your foundation has to be the four pillars of mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery has to be. So, for example, right, if, if I want to again, health performance is sustainability, I need to be aware of and or have strategies around how I eat. 00;05;07;12 - 00;05;36;18 So nutrition, I got to fuel myself properly. I need to have a sustainable training program or daily movement plan. I need to have an understanding of the importance of recovery. So if we think of mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery, if any of those things is missing, then I'm not going to optimize my health, I'm not going to optimize my kids alignments and I'm not going to have sustainability working with the athlete populations. 00;05;36;20 - 00;06;02;04 They oftentimes don't have an issue with the training piece or even the recovery piece. But when you've had a six pack abs since you were the third grade and you've eaten whatever you want your whole life, usually nutritious is the area that's lacking. So we'll have these athletes come in. Chris that are minimal, like Greek gods, they took their shirts off and then just they just are they can literally be on the cover of a magazine. 00;06;02;04 - 00;06;29;14 They look so good physically, six pack muscle hanging off of them, and they have terrible diets. They're just genetic freaks, right? And they don't eat vegetables. They eat, you know, nothing but, you know, junk, fast food, whatever. And they look like that. Well, for those guys, improving how they fuel their bodies is one of their lowest hanging fruits to improve their health, their performance, and have sustainability. 00;06;29;16 - 00;07;02;00 Well, working with a tactical population, it's not difficult to get somebody on a good training plan. It's not difficult to get somebody in the population with good nutrition habits. The challenge in a tactical population is the is is the recovery. So I tell the guys who come in here is one of the lowest hanging fruit for you. It's how we can improve your health and your performance and have sustainability is that you have a better mindset around recovery and how you implement recovery. 00;07;02;02 - 00;07;31;17 When I say recovery, I'm not talking about just one stretching. Okay? Essentially, recovery is this concept of stress management, right? One of the one of the most important principles that we operate off of is work plus rest equals and adaptation. Right. And you've heard the example before where if you take your hand and you rub it on a concrete sidewalk, really aggressive and you never stop, you would eventually start bleeding. 00;07;31;19 - 00;07;45;16 However, if you rub your hand on a concrete sidewalk for a period of time, you allow to recover, you rested and you did it again. You rested it, you did it again and you rested. Your body would adapt to that adaptation by your skin. 00;07;45;18 - 00;08;09;08 So the question at hand is, okay, well, if my goal is to form a callus on my hand, what is more important, the work or the recovery? And it's really a trick question because the answer is no. They both on like without the without the stimulus, the work, I don't get the adaptation, but without the rest, I also get the adaptation. 00;08;09;11 - 00;08;37;13 Therefore, in my my mindset is that how I recover is equally as important as is my training. So my sleep habits are just as important as my workout, right? So that's very important, right? Because we will put a premium on training plans what we want, but then at night we'll go out and drink too much and stay up too late. 00;08;37;16 - 00;09;02;06 And then essentially I just wasted my whole week of training because of the weekend that I had it. So let's let so I like that. So let's pause on that one because that everybody is susceptible to that, right? No matter where you where you are, what you do, you're tempted to extend yourself for the luxury of convenience. Yup. 00;09;02;08 - 00;09;38;11 Right. So when we start to talk about natural behaviors, because you talk about similarities of somebody with the body that has the ability to just have that be in shape, appear to be in shape based off of just the the genetics. Does does genetics play a part in our approach to decision making? The ones that are constantly on the go, constantly feeling like they have to be active in order to, you know, feel like they're doing something specific versus what might be perceived as recovery. 00;09;38;11 - 00;09;55;12 Is sitting on a couch not doing anything to relax. It's not the same, right? It's just that's a way to do it. But that's not exactly what we're talking about, because that might be the perception people may have is when you talk about recovery, that means I have to slow down and not do something and I'm just not that type of person. 00;09;55;15 - 00;10;24;27 Well, I'll say this, that exhale, the gas coming in, your greatest to recovery tools that you have. There's lots of them. But number one and number two, number one is sleep. That is your greatest tool to match or stress management is sleep number. The second one is your program design, your training program. You cannot foam roll or coach job your way out of bad sleep habits in a bad training program design. 00;10;24;29 - 00;10;53;27 And what I mean, my training program design is that those my training program vary the stimulus of my body enough to where there's a natural my body has the ability to recovery due to the way I'm undulating or changing the stimulus over time. If I don't have that, if my training is just like a nonstop grind where I'm not very in the stimulus, I am essentially leading to an overtrained state. 00;10;54;00 - 00;11;13;15 I am not training is overtraining me and I don't have good sleep habits. But those two things are very foundational. Now, to answer your question, let me make sure I get this right. You asked the question, Do genetics influence my decision making process? Was that your question? Yeah. And that was it wasn't my best way of explaining it. 00;11;13;15 - 00;11;38;15 But it's just this is it the same as the ones that don't feel it? They don't have to eat right and all those things, but they still have that outcome. Are there types of individuals that don't need typical rest patterns that we talk about? So I would say this that I think your your mindset is what dictates the decisions that you make through your everybody has a hierarchy of values. 00;11;38;18 - 00;12;02;09 Can't escape that. Right. Right. So your values, your motivations, what your goals are, the hierarchy of your values, what you think more important, those things, what's what you feel is the filter at which you make decisions. Now come on, genetics impact that. Sure. So, for example, somebody who is a very like talented, physically fit or let's just say sort of fit. 00;12;02;12 - 00;12;27;16 Let's say you're naturally a phenomenal athlete. You've always been the best among your peers. You run the fastest, you're the strongest. Your skill level is really good. There's sometimes those individuals can tend to rely too much on their talent. So you see that with young athletes where they don't really work that hard because they are so physically gifted, which is really based off the genetic makeup. 00;12;27;18 - 00;12;54;10 They were always the fastest in the playground. They always hit the ball the furthest. They always, you know, they were just better than everybody else. So what I need to work on. Right. And so I think in a military mindset, I think, you know, again, I'm speaking from a civilian who's just worked a lot with the military. So I speak from a standpoint of learning from their world, not from my own experience. 00;12;54;13 - 00;13;25;17 But if you take somebody who, let's say, goes into some selection pipeline and you become a member of one of the most elite, you know, top tier units in the military, then there's a there's a mindset that is that is that is basically programed into you through that process. That is very necessary for that process. Like, you need to believe that you are ten foot tall and bulletproof if you're going to be successful in that world. 00;13;25;20 - 00;13;49;20 Yeah. However, believe in that like you really having that level of confidence, right? That I'm now ten foot tall, I'm bulletproof, I can do whatever because I'm, you know, fill in the blank, I'm X, whatever. Okay. Well, that's that's a great mindset to have. But if that mindset leads me to well, we can I can go out and, you know, we can that we work hard, we play hard. 00;13;49;23 - 00;14;06;14 So, you know, we work hard in a day and we're going to go painted on at night and have a good time. You know, it's like, okay, And I can handle that because I am who I am saying, Yeah, okay, you can handle that when you're teens, right? You think you can handle that, right? Young But as you get older, you can't. 00;14;06;14 - 00;14;28;10 That's that you can't sustain that you're thinking about right now. Like when I was in, when I was in college, my typical day, right? I'd wake of a 5:00 in the morning and go train to class all day, go to practice, come home with homework. And those many times where I was printing off papers for class at 3:00 in the morning because I procrastinated. 00;14;28;13 - 00;14;47;02 Right. But, Buddy, I would get 2 hours of sleep, boom, be up and I would training at practice and you would never know it. Not feel good if I get 3 hours of sleep now I feel like I had a flu for two days. It wrecks my world, right? So I actually was. I was. And I was 22 years old. 00;14;47;05 - 00;15;25;28 So anyway, the point is, you genetics have an impact on that decision making process. I think genetics has an impact on can have an impact on, you know, my environment, my mindset. Ultimately, it's the mindset that I have that drives my decisions around me. Got it. So and I'm just clarifying a point for all the the delusional folks out there, they think they can do what you just said and hit the gas all the time the same way even as your life's changes, your lifestyle, lifestyle changes, your life stage changes, as you get older, you have more experience, specific things where your body's taking impact. 00;15;26;00 - 00;15;45;15 It's not the case. No, it's you're going to you're going to burn out. And on the mental component, what I think affects obviously there's a connection. And I'm not an expert in any of this, but your mental state, there's an effect on your mindset when. Which is why we go through those exercises to understand where your limits are and things like that. 00;15;45;15 - 00;16;12;29 So let's let's let's talk a little bit about now, you know, transition into a little bit low over detail on typical let's talk about typical typical individuals in most scenarios. What do we think about when we're starting to talk about the plan and the mindset? Okay. So when it comes to the plan, you got you got to. Okay. 00;16;12;29 - 00;16;33;26 So, I mean, I think I said in order to have optimal health performance and sustainability, you have to be firing on all cylinders, mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery. So we're going to lean into the world of movement. We understand that in order for you to be healthy, you have to move. I don't care if you are 25 years old or you're 65 years old. 00;16;33;26 - 00;16;57;19 If you are sedentary, your health is going to go downhill. Period. Well, you have to be kind of big, I would say too. Broad categories of movement. One is, is physical activity. Physical activity essentially is I live a physically active life. I'm not exercising, but I do things in my daily life and get my heart rate up. That is a stimulus on my body. 00;16;57;19 - 00;17;16;26 So, for example, I had a I had a grandmother, a great grandmother who lived to be 101 years old. She had never she grew up she was born in 1902. Okay. She was ten years old when the Titanic sank and I mean, she was alive when I was in high school and I'd go talk to her. She was sharp. 00;17;16;28 - 00;17;42;07 She could she she could recite like she could recite. She had the entire I think there's there's entire chapters of the Bible she had memorized and she could recite them. And she was 97 years old. She had never been or seen inside of a weight room in her life. However, I don't think she ever had a television. She kept a garden. 00;17;42;10 - 00;18;14;12 She kept farm animals. She was super physically active every single day out in the sun, sweating. And she was not sedentary at all. Some of the point is, is like I if I if I don't train, I have to move to be healthy. That could be the form of physical activity for some people. So let's say, for example, that I was a my job was a I was a hunting guide in Montana and I helped people in the backcountry, you know, go in and locate Elk for hunting. 00;18;14;12 - 00;18;46;12 Right. And I walked up and down the mountains all day long. I don't need to go home and do conditioning, running treadmill. Right. Got it. You still see it? I do. Yeah. So? So there's a physical activity. However, if I want to. If I want to improve my body's performance level for anything, whether it be my job for sport or recreational activities, I need exercise. 00;18;46;15 - 00;19;16;05 And exercise is where I'm going to put a stimulus on my body on this human organism in order for a specific response or adaptation. So, for example, I want to improve my cardiovascular fitness. Okay, Well, then I there's a there's a recipe for improving your cardiovascular fitness that you need to expose your body to that stimulus, to that recipe in order for that adaptation. 00;19;16;08 - 00;19;33;28 Okay. Well, I want to get stronger. All right. Well, there's a recipe for developing strength, muscular strength. And I need to put that stimulus on my body in order for that recipe. So I look at it like baking. It's just like it's like baking in a kitchen, like a chef. You want to bake cookies? Okay, well, you need flour, you need sugar. 00;19;33;29 - 00;19;51;19 You need also kind of fat. You need what you need These ingredients. Okay. But you got to mix them together at this ratio, and you're going to bake them in the oven at this temperature for this duration. And then why you got to cook? All right, well, what is it that you want your body to be able to do? 00;19;51;21 - 00;20;19;28 What do you think needs to be elevated? Would it be strength, power, speed, capacity, endurance, whatever? Well, what's the recipe for that? And then you apply that to the body, to recovery. There's your adaptation. And so if you think about, like, a hierarchy of those things, I would say that, again, dealing with movement and specifically exercise, you want to improve your overall performance. 00;20;20;00 - 00;20;44;18 The foundation of human performance is fundamental movement. What that means is, Chris, that you're able to move functionally as a human being without pain. So think of pain free function. Right. You can bend, you can twist, you can squat, you can lunge. You can push, you can pull, you can rotate. Right now, you can do that without pain. 00;20;44;18 - 00;21;12;10 And it's functional. That's the foundation. Now, in terms of capacities, your foundational capacity for movement is your aerobic system. If you don't have like if you don't have you have floor aerobics, aerobic capacity. And again, for those who are listening right when you move, your body needs to produce energy to move. The energy molecule is known as ATP. 00;21;12;12 - 00;21;38;24 Right. So the sun here's something great. The sun shines on the earth. Plants through photosynthesis convert that to carbohydrate. Either we eat the plant or animals eat the plant. Long story short, everything you eat comes from photosynthesis. In a day, we convert that to an energy molecule called ATP that's necessary for movement. Okay, Now you can produce ATP in a couple of ways. 00;21;38;27 - 00;22;10;05 You can do it in the presence of oxygen. Right. And that is aerobic energy metabolism. So aerobic energy metabolism is very sustainable. I can just do that for long durations. Well, as the intensity increases, then it takes too long to use oxygen to produce energy. Therefore, I have to use other means. Right. I have to create energy in the absence of oxygen and that your anaerobic energy metabolism. 00;22;10;07 - 00;22;36;10 All right. So your aerobic energy metabolism is the foundation, the probably the most foundational performance quality that we need. And so if you're if you're out of shape. Okay, you haven't been running or haven't been doing anything for a while. And, you know, now I go upstairs and I'm breathing hard while doing interval training. At that point in time, I would say would not be the best place to start. 00;22;36;12 - 00;23;00;05 The best place to start would be doing some kind of longer, lower intensity type of work to build some aerobic capacity as a foundation so that now I can go do some more higher intensity interval work. But I need that aerobic base there. So your aerobic foundation will move that pain free functional movement is your foundation building anaerobic capacity base for movement. 00;23;00;07 - 00;23;24;19 Those two things set the stage for your overall performance. Okay, from there it is functional or whatever baseline level of strength that you need to do your life. So I'd say next thing in line with the big would be strength. And when I say strength, Chris, I'm not talking about getting under a heavy bar and how much can you bench press and how much can you squat? 00;23;24;25 - 00;23;46;00 Okay. That's a very relative term. Right. So essentially, how much strength do I need to produce the power necessary for my life? And that's very different for each person based upon their life is. But but yeah, I know I'm still kind of stamped on the spot here, but this is super important, Chris, because, again, it's part of your hierarchy of values. 00;23;46;00 - 00;24;06;11 Like you don't know what to do. You're sedentary. Like you're the trifecta, that you're overweight, you're sedentary, and you've been full of excuses. You're like, Man, I need to get up and get going. Okay? Right. Get up and start walking. So I'm going to go outside and I'm going to go walk for the next half hour to an hour. 00;24;06;14 - 00;24;23;02 And I'm going to build that into a habit. And as I start building these new habits, I'm going to start, Larry, more and more. But again, I've got to get up and get going. And your work system is like foundation to that. Got it. So thanks for that. And to anybody there that we're getting a little bit deeper because we're talking about incremental additions. 00;24;23;04 - 00;24;55;29 Right. So the fundamentals that you're speaking of, as we're just talking at high level and we're we're sprinkling in a little bit of this and that to give you a little bit more information that supports the idea of why do I like that? Because the ATP, the starting slow, you know, these elements of saying in a real world scenario where most of us now are technology focused to where we stop or we're looking down our natural body movements and repetition of that is conditioning our bodies to now shape itself with the the back, the neck, the hips. 00;24;56;02 - 00;25;13;26 So all of these things that are connected, I like that you're breaking it down that way because it's the element of understanding, because it can be discouraging. I'm focused on the computer. I'm sitting even though I have a standing desk, I forget to stand up all of these little things that we're just pushing off when we just talk about this like it's already July. 00;25;13;26 - 00;25;34;11 I can't believe it's the half of the year's already gone by. You look back and say, I haven't really done what I had usually had been doing physically for a couple of months now. And we did. We lost track of time. So let me go pick up where I left off and then I injure myself for that pain free component isn't real for me. 00;25;34;11 - 00;25;54;14 I always have pain now. So this is what you're talking about is starting to understand these things to where if you were gradually implementing something to get used to that the adaptation. Yep. Now you can move on to the next step and build from that. But if you start somewhere in the middle and your diet and your rest, all of these things aren't factored into that. 00;25;54;16 - 00;26;16;06 That mindset shifts because you're not seeing the returns that you expect because we all want that immediate gratification, right? So hopefully I summarize that. But that leads to the next thing that I think you want to talk about. Yeah. So when you think about where do you want to go? Yeah, get out of your mind that I want a quick fix. 00;26;16;08 - 00;26;36;03 Think to yourself, like, let's say, for example, that you feel like, Man, I need to lose. I need to lose £20. Okay, well, let your goal be. I want to be I want to lose that £20 a year from now. I want to be £20 lighter this time next year as a result of the changes that I make. 00;26;36;05 - 00;27;01;06 If you wanted to, you could go on some strict ketogenic diet or a very strict, more restrictive diet that's unsustainable for you potentially, and lose that £20 in the next six weeks. But however, a year from now I see you and you gained it back, What good was it? And that's the world we live in. And so everybody is like, Oh, how do I do this? 00;27;01;06 - 00;27;24;04 Like, no, no, no. Like what good is it if if like, I'm doing things that are unsustainable, even though it gives me some immediate results. But a year I said the best training program is not is whatever you're still doing a year from now. That's the best training program not on what what what New Year's resolution that I jumped on to in January. 00;27;24;08 - 00;27;52;05 I made some changes for my my cruise and I'm going on in May and then boom, by Christmas next year, I'm more of a way than I was in start in January. And so mindset being I'm going to look at this as I want. I want the few my my version of my future self, the Anthony that I'm going to that's going to be here in September, December next year, 2025, to be better than who used to do. 00;27;52;07 - 00;28;10;03 And I'm on I'm going to do that with a long term plans and will choose things that are sustainable that I can do with consistency and sustainability. Listen to me and I'm not anybody else. I'm like a lot of people were if I look at carbohydrates, I gained weight right when I was 20, when I was 25 years old. 00;28;10;03 - 00;28;36;22 Chris I could change the way that I ate and in a week I would look down on my stomach. I'd be flat like washboard body. Now I could change the way I eat my body as I'm turning 40 this year, right? So my body is changing. So I look at carbs and I start gaining weight. Well, like anybody else, it's like, Oh, man, I'm gonna listen to all these podcasts and you talk to the people around, you know, these methods around nutrition, and it's like, Oh, I want to go on the keto diet and see if I can, you know, make the changes are serious, make it. 00;28;36;24 - 00;29;00;19 Well, then I walk in a house one day after a week of doing Kita and my daughter has baked some cookies and she's so proud of me and she's like, Dad, dad, dad, you got to try this like I made this just for you. I mean, the cookie purist. Yeah, but I like that. Yeah. You know, it's because, you know, it's funny about that. 00;29;00;21 - 00;29;18;22 And I'm holding up a cookie for that same scenario happened to me yesterday. It's still sitting here because I took it. Because what you're supposed to. You should. Yeah, I haven't eaten it yet because I got to think about the things that you were talking about. I knew we were going to talk. I'm like, Why eat a cookie? 00;29;18;24 - 00;29;53;13 Well, here's here's the thing. I can have that cookie. I just can have 20 of them and I can't have it every day. Right? And so it's it's the simple things done savagely. Well, the point is, like, the thing I really I really harp on our tactic of population is sustainability. Because if again if you're a training program, if this is not something you can do a year or two years, three years from now and your training hurts you like you're training, well, I'll be honest with you, there's a there's a really good I listen to. 00;29;53;13 - 00;30;17;28 If you know who Pablo is, he was the guy. He's like the he's like the kettlebell guru. He was on the Rogan podcast a few years ago talking about training, and he said some really, really good things around training that I think is was really good because we don't we don't appreciate how much the powerlifting industry, bodybuilding industry has influenced the way that we train. 00;30;18;00 - 00;30;46;03 And so he fleshes that out. Then he also says, like you should when you a training program, you should feel energized and good after your workout, not destroyed in beat down and hurting after your workout. And he used an example. He said some of the greatest power letters of all time came. He he asked a question, How often do you think that they maxed out on their lives? 00;30;46;05 - 00;31;08;03 How often these power letters maxed out on their debt, left their squad to their bench? And the answer was only a competition, only time that they ever Max is a competition. Chris When I was in my high school college days, I maxed out every single time I trained like every day. I was like maxing out on something. Okay? 00;31;08;03 - 00;31;38;11 And so the concept of minimal effective dose when it comes to training is the is the answer. So if if if one Tylenol takes away my headache, why would I take the whole bottle? So what do I need from a training stimulus going back to the what? What are my goals? What am I trying to accomplish? What am I trying to improve my performance for some job or sport or competition or am I just looking for quality of life? 00;31;38;13 - 00;31;59;01 Like what? What am I trying to do here? And then let that guide again the decisions that I make around the type of stimulus that I put on my body. Yeah. And that I think that's where where we get into the the the intersect of perception and reality. Right. It's I perceive I need to do a bunch of things. 00;31;59;05 - 00;32;18;16 I don't know how long I'm supposed to do these exercises like a 20 minute you know this is like the late night TV ad you know, or, you know, the the snake oil thing where 20 minutes you can have abs like this 20 minutes a week or 20 minutes a day, you know, And there's a lot of doubt that's placed into these functional components to where it's different. 00;32;18;16 - 00;32;39;17 It's different than the traditional idea of what we've had. On how you have to do certain things to get to look or be perform in a certain way. So what are some of the basics that we have to start with to understand? Ed Because you've touched on it. Yeah, you know, it's the mindset, it's the plan, you know, what do you want to do? 00;32;39;19 - 00;33;13;18 The goals, the values. All right. So here's a really good here's a really good goal. If you are just looking at how do you take care of yourself and this is for anybody I need to shoot for 30 minutes of of exercise or I would say aerobically challenging exercise at least five days a week. Supplement that with 2 to 3 days a week of resistance training, which is anything that's pushing against your force, right? 00;33;13;19 - 00;33;39;08 Resistance is you're applying some kind of extra load in the body that you're having to move. You move against that choosing like large compound movements. Okay, So don't think of it through the lens of bodybuilding where, oh, I'm going to change. I'm going to go chest, chest today, triceps, chest and tries back. And guys, we won't train Maguire's Now think of training movement on a push on a pole. 00;33;39;11 - 01;09;18;27 I can push and pull my upper body. I can push and pull with my lower body. I can do it with one arm. I can do it with two arms. I can alternate arms. , I can push and pull my lower body with one leg or two legs. And so think of this idea of pushing, pulling in terms of your core. 00;33;55;18 - 00;34;18;05 You can you have two functions of the core. You have stability where I'm having to brace in Reservist movement. So think of like a plank. Then you have propulsive type movements and that's where I'm transferring energy through my core, through a series of flexing and rotating. So imagine me doing like a like a medicine, like a rotational medicine ball onto the wall. 00;34;18;07 - 00;34;38;11 If you look at how the core moves, the core does those two things. It stabilizes my spine, which is number one. So this number two is it transfers energy through my body. And so if I want to think of functional training, I want to train my core through stability or compulsive movements. I want to train the upper body in a lower body through a series of pushing and pulling actions. 00;34;38;13 - 00;34;55;25 Speaker 2 Now, there's nothing wrong with you isolating a muscle, right? You can do a calf raise, you can do a bicep curl. But that should be the the the sprinkles on top of the cake. It should not be the cake. So if my goal is meant I don't know what I'm like, here's an example. I'm going to I don't know where to start. 00;34;55;25 - 00;35;14;17 Well, I'm going to start walking for a half hour every day. I can that and I will do that five days a week. And then some will say, I could do that. I could do that every day, which you could, let's say minimal five days a week. It's 30 minutes of aerobic activity. And I want to do 2 to 3 days a week of some type of resistance training. 00;35;14;19 - 00;35;37;22 And that could start out with just mainly your bodyweight or even using something like a, you know, a TR x suspension where you're able to use your body weight. But you're you're you're you're using angles and levers to like potentially not even use your whole body weight. Right. And I'm doing pushing and pulling. I can just do upper body one day, lower body one day, or I could do a combination of upper and lower the total body the same day. 00;35;37;24 - 00;35;57;10 And so you can choose a combination of those things. But the goal is, you know, half hour, five days a week, 2 to 3 days a week of resistance training, maybe a goal to start with. Okay. So let's say like if I was going to give you like now from having said that, I gave you kind of the answer to the test part. 00;35;57;12 - 00;36;31;03 Let's walk through let's walk through my mindset around how am I going to develop like a training plan for myself? Number one is it starts with what's your goal? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to accomplish just overall quality of life? Then? Okay, Or like I'm to I'm in a general state of physical preparations. GPP It's a I don't need constant progressive overload if I'm just focused on quality of life. 00;36;31;06 - 00;36;55;07 If you're focused on quality of life, look at training the same way you look at brushing and flossing your teeth. When I'm brushing my teeth, I don't progress my teeth brushing from 2 minutes to 20 minutes. I do this. I do it for 2 minutes and I've lost because that's a maintenance activity. Well, if you're in a if you just look at the quality of life, you're training is more of a maintenance activity. 00;36;55;10 - 00;37;14;08 So I don't need to constantly do heavier weight, run further, run faster. I don't need to always keep pushing the envelope if I'm just looking for pure quality of life. However, if I'm wanting to move the needle right and I want to improve those factors, then I need progressive overload. So you establish that from that from the beginning. 00;37;14;08 - 00;37;34;28 That's important. Okay. From there you ask yourself this question How many days a week am I willing to commit to training? Is it once a once a week? Is it six days a week? What realistically can I do? And you schedule that in your schedule So. 00;37;34;28 - 00;37;46;17 That this pause on that one near to because because now we look at the time availability and the duration. Yep. This time of day matter to now factor in some other conditions and variables. 00;37;46;19 - 00;38;10;03 Oh man, I would not call myself an expert. And to answer that question, but I'll say this what time of day the do you feel like you can get that you can you can sustain it and get the most out of your training. So, for example, let's say that I think that it's best to wake up first thing in the morning and train in the fasted state. 00;38;10;05 - 00;38;29;18 Well, what if you don't? What if you're not an early morning person and you do that for the first week? Bye bye Week three, you quit because it wouldn't sustainable for you. Okay, then that wasn't a right thing to do. Okay, so what time can you do it? And you actually continue to do it, right? That's that's the most important thing in my opinion. 00;38;29;21 - 00;38;47;29 Got it. So if if I'm going to. But because it doesn't stop there. Right. Because your first question is how much time? And then in my head it's. Well, that time is dictated by my day. So if I'm looking at, well, in the morning, I can give you X number, but if I do it in the afternoon, I can do X. 00;38;47;29 - 00;38;57;22 But my whole days past I probably eaten some things. And so whatever I'm doing in the morning, my, my, my energy levels might be different. And so I'm also looking at that. 00;38;57;22 - 00;39;24;18 So yeah, so, so I would say that I think I think that for somebody who is in our stage of life, knock it out first thing in the morning is going to probably be the best thing to do because I have so many other things competing for my attention in my time throughout the day. Also, I train better again from a quality of life training plan when I have it meeting a ton that day, like I have a little bit of fuel in my body, but I'm not. 00;39;24;18 - 00;39;35;20 I haven't. It's not. I haven't had breakfast and lunch and then I'm going to go get a workout in. No, it's like maybe I go first thing in the morning or I do something mid-morning wrap before I eat lunch would be ideal. Well, that's. 00;39;35;27 - 00;39;39;14 That's you factoring in you. So we're talking about time. Yeah. 00;39;39;19 - 00;40;01;25 So for somebody else, they may say, well, I've got to be at work at 6 a.m. and I prioritize my sleep so I can't get up like Jocko at 4 a.m. and training. So I'm going to but I'm going to I'm going to make sure that I get off at 3:00 in the afternoon. So I'm going to I'm going to go train for 3 to 345 or 3 to 4 as I transition to go home. 00;40;01;27 - 00;40;05;03 And so you're going to find what time works for you is what I'm saying. 00;40;05;05 - 00;40;29;21 Yep. I'm and I'm just introducing the things that when you start to think about those times. Yeah, it's the other things about knowing yourself because it starts with yourself because creating the discipline through repetition, through the results and all those types of things. I'm just trying to make sure that we're all clear It's up to you. But you got to also you have to also consider other things when you land on that timeline. 00;40;31;26 - 00;40;33;14 Sorry to interrupt. 00;40;33;17 - 00;40;59;20 Yeah. So once you decide how many days a week I'm going to train, No, this something is better than nothing. So if you're trying to establish habits, right, if you're starting from zero one day a week is not going to move the needle for you. But one day a week is is stepping in the right direction. Right? So, again, depending on where you are, right, you've got to you got to start somewhere. 00;40;59;20 - 00;41;18;06 So I would say that in an ideal scenario, like I said, you're doing sort of five days a week, okay, But you're establishing how many days a week am I going to train on the onset? The next question is how long each day do I have? Do I have 30 minutes? I can commit, I have an hour, I can do it. 00;41;18;08 - 00;41;39;06 Right. But again, you scheduled this out. Put this in your calendar, put this on your phone, put this in your Google calendar. Right. My train these days at these times for this duration. And even if you say I don't feel like it getting up and still doing it, doing something, even if it's like I'm going to skip my workout, but just go for my walk that morning, build the habit of that becomes my routine. 00;41;39;06 - 00;42;03;07 I schedule it into my day. Okay, Now, once I've done that, this is what my goals are. Here's no John to accomplish. This is how many days a week an injury. This is the duration of those dates. Then it's a matter saying, okay, well then what am I going to do for that 60 minutes? Right. Well, you've got three big categories that number one is you need to warm up. 00;42;03;10 - 00;42;29;02 And two is you need to do need to train. Number three is you need to recover. All right. So let's look at the warmup. They think about your body like if you're going to you have to prime your system to go move. Okay. So there's a there's a three step process that we use for that. Number one is soft tissue. 00;42;29;05 - 00;43;02;17 Number two is mobility. Number three is activation. So the soft tissue is like maybe we use a foam roller, right? I want to I grab a form rule massage stick. I do something to maybe hit some key areas of the body as a way to create some like some like neural relaxation in the tissue. I'm opening a windows around, get more of my mobility work When it comes to mobility, if you look at the human body, the human body, Chris alternates between areas of mobility and stability. 00;43;02;19 - 00;43;28;17 And so the three areas of the body that you have to have good mobility are the ankles, your hips, thoracic spine. If you don't have proper mobility at the ankles, hips and a thoracic spine, that is going to significantly impact the way that you move. So I would do something to work on fit mobility, thoracic spine mobility or income mobility. 00;43;28;20 - 00;43;48;13 If you have poor hip mobility, you're probably going to compensate at the low back and order of the news. So you'll compensate above and below. So people that don't have good hip mobility typically flex of their spine when they should be flexing to their hips. So all of a sudden now I have low back problems because of lack of proper movement, everything else. 00;43;48;15 - 00;44;15;17 If you have poor or anchor mobility, oftentimes you're going to compensate at the knees and or the low back. So knees will take a hit, low back or thick and hip. If I have poor hip mobility and mobility, when I say income mobility, I'm talking specifically around primarily around ankle dorsiflexion. So if you look at the ankle thing of the ankle, you can almost think of the angle like a ball and socket joint, even though it's not technically ball and socket, that ankle is going to move 360 degrees. 00;44;15;19 - 00;44;25;21 Okay, It needs to have that movement. But the ankle dorsiflexion is very, very important in order for me to properly be able to absorb forces is underneath. 00;44;25;24 - 00;44;29;28 And that's basically your knee goes moves the toes and. 00;44;30;00 - 00;44;46;01 So you take it and if you were to go you to take a knee on the ground and let your foot flat down and see how far can I push my knee or my toe, that's ankle dorsiflexion. If you lacked that ankle dorsiflexion, then you're going to have issues. 00;44;46;03 - 00;45;00;09 Yeah. So what what I'm hearing in this point when you're when you're warming up is to consider these little things and how they when you're feeling it somewhere, it's probably not that place that you feel it is the cause safe to say it's starting somewhere else? 00;45;00;14 - 00;45;20;22 Listen, most of the time when people have like a tight low back where people have a tight move X, they're often their go to is, I want to go stretch my lower back and I'm like, No, no, don't do that. Your lower your lumbar spine needs to be stable. Your your hips need mobility and your upper spine, your thoracic spine need mobility. 00;45;20;25 - 00;45;30;01 And so if you have a tight low back, don't stretch your lower back, stretch your hips and stretch your thoracic spine, and that you will see improvements in your family with your lower back. 00;45;30;01 - 00;45;38;17 Those that's a common misunderstanding. Meaning over time, my shoes, my back is hurting up and then all of a sudden I'm focused on. So what you're saying is. 00;45;38;17 - 00;45;40;27 Here's what'll happen, though, Chris, is you'll make it worse. 00;45;40;27 - 00;45;42;05 I'm just going to say. Yeah. 00;45;42;07 - 00;46;02;22 Yes. So? So when the body senses so here. So. So think about it, right? If you walked on a on like a frozen lake, like walking on ice and tennis shoes, your body senses instability. What does your body do? Does it does it tighten or does it get loosey goosey, loosey? No, tighten up tightens up. Right. So your senses instability. 00;46;02;28 - 00;46;24;20 It tightens up. Okay. Well, your lumbar spine is an area of the body that needs stability. It is the highway of your nervous system, essentially. Right. It needs stability, lumbar spine. It's going to move, but it's not a lot of movement there. Well If you sense the body senses instability in lumbar spine, muscles around your spine will tighten up to guard. 00;46;24;23 - 00;46;43;15 So you let's say you go to bend over your body. Your body senses a like a like a shift or an instability in your spine bone. You'll see muscles start tightening up. You're like your cue. Your cue will tighten up. You're like your your glute me will tighten up. And oftentimes and those muscles tighten up. That causes a referral pattern of pain. 00;46;43;16 - 00;47;12;13 So, for example, you may have low back pain. That low back pain is due to the muscle in your glute like a glute. Me That muscle is like neurologically in a in a hyper tone position or state and that's causing the pain in your lower back. So actually if you got on a lacrosse ball or a medicine ball or a foam roller and you massage the muscles in your glutes, that would like that potentially could alleviate the pain you're feeling your lower back. 00;47;12;15 - 00;47;35;01 Now, this is this is again, this is me just saying gross generalization is right. So if you have back pain, there could literally be a thousand different reasons why you have back pain. Some of them could be serious and some of them could be minor, like I'm talking about. That could like, usually the things I'm talking about is when if you have back pain, but there is no mechanism of injury like you don't I don't remember hurting my back. 00;47;35;04 - 00;47;55;29 This is my back's really tired is bothered me most of the time. That's due to like neural tension in muscles that are above and below the low back. That could be due to poor movement to the hips or the spine that you could fix through, again, soft tissue of the hips, mobility of the hips. And again, hip. We're talking hip extension and flexion. 00;47;55;29 - 00;48;17;20 But specifically, hear me on this. If you lack hip internal rotation. So imagine you lay down and I grab your foot and I can twist your foot like I can rotate your leg and you're rotating your leg inward like your toe is going toward the other. Your toe is tilting toward the other leg. That's hip. I are like a lot of people who lack. 00;48;17;23 - 00;48;45;18 I are relaxed. Hip air. You're going to have issues with like squatting. So if you don't if you don't if your hips don't instantly rotate when you basically squat, you're going to typically create that mobility or compensated to low back after that. So going back to what I'm saying here, if I'm going to warm up the three areas and I want to make sure I got good mobility is your ankles, your hips and your thoracic spine. 00;48;45;21 - 00;49;03;21 Okay, Stay away from stretching your lower back. If someone's going to stretch your lower back, it's your physical therapist that has you on a table that knows what you're doing is you're not laying on the ground. Doing on a cross is a sling. Your leg across your body is trying to stretch it because you probably will make things worse by doing that. 00;49;03;23 - 00;49;10;10 I think I think it's at this point, everybody knows they messed up. Oh. 00;49;10;12 - 00;49;12;02 Yeah, I was very guilty of that. 00;49;12;05 - 00;49;33;12 Yeah. Yeah. Because it's it's the common thing. It hurts there. Let me, let me do this. And so I think that's and that's what Anthony I appreciate that level of detail because the reality is warming up is an element of what it takes to even do the walk before doing things because it depends on where you are in your life stage and your experiences of how your body's been traumatized or whatever. 00;49;33;15 - 00;49;44;24 Yeah, that you have to account for the little things first because of the fact that there's a it may or may not be the bigger muscle that is the that is the issue. 00;49;44;26 - 00;50;09;01 All right. So let's say you go for Urso, you want to go for a run, you wake up and you're like, Man, I just ate too much of you. I want to try to combat this. And so you just get up, all shoot on, push for time. I'm just going to tie my shoes on and go in about, I don't know, 100 yards into your run, your little back starts tightening up on you and you start feeling some knee pain on one side. 00;50;09;03 - 00;50;39;23 It's highly possible if you took 10 minutes, 5 minutes and did some ankle mobility work and you did some active range and most of stretching where you work through the pattern of like hip extension flexion to spine, if you did basically some dynamic stretches. One of them if you look at like world's greatest stretch elbow to instep rotate the hamstring so there's many things you can do if you took 5 minutes to prime the body. 00;50;39;25 - 00;51;03;13 Okay. Aside from you having like a, you know, injury or dysfunction in your running technique, chances are you were still better at that same point in time on your run than you would have felt if by just getting up and loosen up and go. But Chris Moore pushed for time, which we all are. What is the number one thing we skimp on your warmup. 00;51;03;16 - 00;51;19;23 Yeah. No, I was just going to say, you know, you got an hour, you have an hour for lunch, you're working, you know, you have that meeting and then you got to get in and out within the hour to not only do do your exercise, but then come back, get it, cool down and get back camera ready. Yeah. 00;51;19;25 - 00;51;37;01 So we do that. So again, just driving the emphasis, you know, in part of your plan, the little things matter. You can't just go all out thinking that I'm only going to do it today. I'll skip it today because the, the mindset again is that longevity, you know, understanding the impact of what happens. And I must say I relate to that. 00;51;37;04 - 00;51;37;26 No. 00;51;37;28 - 00;51;41;25 Go out cold and your knee starts hurting. Back hurts. 00;51;41;28 - 00;51;43;02 Yeah. 00;51;43;04 - 00;51;44;22 So we're warming up. 00;51;44;25 - 00;52;04;01 All right. So let's say you from your system, right? You've you've you've got your body ready to go. The next thing is you want to train. So what training stimulus are you going to put in your body for that day? Are you just going to do some cardiovascular work? Is it going to be is it going to be equipment based like conditioning? 00;52;04;03 - 00;52;18;08 Like I said, 30 minutes where you get your heart rate up and like a zone to where I can I can still carry on a conversation. But I don't like to ask, is it going to be that again? Choose something that you can do. Is it going to be go for a run is going to be any kind of any kind of equipment? 00;52;18;13 - 00;52;34;11 Right. Again, how you how you lay it out. If you said, I'm going to train, I'm going to train five days a week, well, five days a week, I'm going to three days a week. I'm going to do cardiovascular training two days a week. I'm on a straight train, potentially, whatever that looks like. You can make that happen. 00;52;34;11 - 00;52;54;27 But then so would you warm up? You're going to put the training in the sun. So let's say I'm straight training, okay? I'm looking for balancing out through my week all the basic movement patterns of the body. I need to push and pull my upper body or support my lower body. I can do it one arm or two arms, one leg or two legs. 00;52;54;27 - 00;53;15;24 So hypothetically speaking, I'm going to do an upper body pushing day that day here, lower body pulling. So I'm going to do like a dumbbell bench press. My pair that up and a circuit with a, you know, a kettlebell Romanian deadlift I can already out there doing that is a example of a lower body pull. You're training the back of your legs, right? 00;53;15;24 - 00;53;40;01 Training your posture chain Right. Then I'm going to do some other variation of that as a second block. I might do a circuit with that. And the second block I did, I do in my workout, I might do, you know, a vertical press. I did a horizontal press with a number bench, but now I may do a cannibal overhead press and then I'm only down and maybe I do like leg curls on a physio ball That's a lower body pool. 00;53;40;03 - 00;53;59;29 You ever done those, then? I'm not working like a plank or bridge where I'm working on course ability, Right. And I do that in a circuit. Okay. So that's an example of how I might train that. Now the question is, okay, well like what am I going to do? Like sets and reps? What Depends on what your goals are. 00;54;00;03 - 00;54;26;28 Okay? If you're not really worried about like improving performance, like, like big picture, you just looking for, again, maintenance, Okay, anywhere between like 6 to 10 repetitions, right? 2 to 4 rounds of that on those exercises would be fine. Okay. Again, relative intensity being moderate to low not I'm not at the ending end of the set. I don't someone spotting me because I'm grinding out with heavy weight. 00;54;27;00 - 00;54;48;01 I got a little bit of load and I'm just grooving those patterns. Okay. Building just foundational capacity, working on movement. Other thing, Chris, about movement is that a lot of people think that if you want to get more flexible, you just got to stretch more. Okay, well stretching is a strategy, but you can also improve your range of motion through like resistance training. 00;54;48;03 - 00;55;08;09 So think of lighter loads working through a full range of motion is also a way to improve, like overall mobility of the body. Okay, so again, you're like we call it greasing the hinges. So you want your body like the Tin Man, you're like the Tin Man and you want to get that get the body moving and segments. 00;55;08;09 - 00;55;30;22 Okay, well, movement is like the oil, right? That those segments so lighter weight work do full range of motion. So let's say that day and that was my strength training day warmed up. I did it like a total body strength training session. And then maybe, maybe I do some like some kind of cardiovascular work out of that, whether it be walk on a treadmill, a diverse climber, whatever. 00;55;30;28 - 00;55;51;06 Again, depends on where you are. If you're more advanced versus you're not if you're not advanced, it would stay stay more like steady state work until you build up to it. But from there, after that, I'll be my recovery. So then for recovery, I'm looking at some type of cooldown I could do. I could do another round of some soft tissue, some mobility. 00;55;51;08 - 00;56;16;00 Right. If you have access to it, you could you know, I'm a big I'm a big fan of using the counter strategically. That's a really good tool. The other thing and people don't like really think a lot about when it comes to recovery is nutrition. So what are you putting in your body? Post-workout. And I know we're pushed for time, but just, you know, as we talk nutrition, we tell people that you need to think in threes for an app for recovery nutrition. 00;56;16;03 - 00;56;36;10 I need to hydrate, I need to rehydrate, I need to refuel and I need to rebuild. Rehydrate with a water source, refuel with with carbohydrate source and rebuild with protein. So we have athletes, we give up, we give a you know, not a big glass, but you could give somebody, you know, a small, you know, eight ounces or six ounces of chocolate milk. 00;56;36;12 - 00;56;57;03 You got water, you got protein, you got carbohydrate. Right. This is an example. But anyway, going back to it, what are my goals? How many days a week in monitoring? What's the duration of that? And then based on what you're trying to accomplish, again, I need to be five days a week, at least 30 minutes of getting my heart rate up. 00;56;57;05 - 00;57;32;03 Okay. Am I doing that through like some type of conditioning type work, rounded up a combination of conditioning and strength training, So five days a week of getting my heart rate up minimum 2 to 3 days a week of resistance training. Last thing I'll say on this, because again, I know we're pushing on time, Chris, is, you know, when you think of when you if you if you start listening to the the longevity health gurus that are out in our world right now, where we're talking about how do we increase our health span of our life to where I'm still able to live the life that I want. 00;57;32;04 - 00;58;01;07 I'm 80 years old. How do I maintain my cognitive neurological functioning as as I get older? The answer to all of those questions always lands on exercise, exercise, resistance, training is the number one thing. It's the only thing that I hear that is shown to to help you maintain your cognitive function as you age. Crossword puzzles don't do it. 00;58;01;09 - 00;58;41;01 No, no. Zero zero evidence saying that doing crossword puzzles helps me maintain my cognitive function as I age. It's exercise. It helps you maintain your cognitive function. So exercise is like the medicine movement, and exercise is the medicine for all disease and aging essentially. So you have that. So consistency is far more important than training intensity. The program that you're doing a year from now is way better than the high intensity program you do for a month and stop. 00;58;41;04 - 00;59;03;10 Yep, got it. So cognizant of the time. Second one is the training component duration. It matters what your goals are, to be clear. Right. So the matters on when you're warming up be able to hit those key points. That's going to allow you to do the movements, looping it up, like you said, as far as using the oil analogy. 00;59;03;10 - 00;59;21;21 Right, getting getting your ability to do the movements that now you're going to go into training and you're going to understand that, you know, you don't have to use heavy and you don't have to use high reps. You can just do the do the relevant moderation based off of what your goals are to be clear, and then how long you work out. 00;59;21;21 - 00;59;32;27 You don't have to put in the three hour workouts. You can do 20 minutes, you can do whatever the heart rate components can allow you to do it based off of your cardio functional state. Yeah. 00;59;33;00 - 01;00;01;17 Yeah. So again, like I would say, the duration could go anywhere between 30 minutes to 90 minutes. Hmm. Okay. Again, if you're training for something and you're trying to really improve your performance, well then you need to have you need to have a stimulus that's going to you know, it's going to equate to that adaptation. However, somebody like Mark Verstegen, our founder of our company, man, that guy lives a high performance lifestyle, that he is in tremendous shape. 01;00;01;19 - 01;00;24;01 You know, he's in his fifties. He looks awesome, always full of energy. I never see him, not when he comes in town. I see him in person. He is the king of micro workouts. He'll slip out of meetings and go do like 15 minutes on the training floor where he's moving. He'll go to a little 15 minute workout and then walk back into the office and go, And that was his move with God. 01;00;24;01 - 01;00;41;00 And so and that's what I was going to get into real quick, because at my workstation where I know I know myself well enough and where my disciplines lie. Yep. And I'm at my station, right my desk or my chair in my office, in my wherever. I have bands on the door and I have one kettlebell and I have some things. 01;00;41;00 - 01;01;06;26 So this is what I was alluding to is you can you can do short bursts of anything in, in a setting all day, as long as as long as you're you're breaking it up again and again. It's relevant because the movement matters more than than the intensity. And that's kind of what I'm giving as an example for people to realize, even at a standing desk, you can do air squats. 01;01;06;28 - 01;01;18;00 Knock out, you know, you can see, yeah, I have a standing desk, right? I have issues with anchor mobility. And you see this little wedge right here. 01;01;18;03 - 01;01;22;06 Shown up where I just got a ball ball and on one side, flat on the other. 01;01;22;09 - 01;01;39;21 So I could I will stand at my desk with my feet on this little wedge that puts me into a state of dorsiflexion where I can stand here and work on my ankle mobility while I'm on the top where I'm talking to you. I've been doing that since I've been talking to you for the last hour and 10 minutes. 01;01;39;23 - 01;01;57;04 Yeah. Versus if I was sitting down at a desk not moving, I would stand up and my hip flexors would be tight. My whole body was so stiff and tight. Yeah. So I'm taking advantage of this time to just move. I talk to you. Yeah, but hear me on this too. I know we've talked more about the quality of life. 01;01;57;04 - 01;02;23;21 Like, you know, I know that's more of our audience here, but if somebody is trying to really improve their, like, move the needle in their performance, you have to have training intensity. So in our world, man, I get the athletes who come here that are training for the combine and run, run fast, man. I get out there and I put them in situations where I am yell in my arms, screaming at them, put them in positions for competition, calm out times. 01;02;23;21 - 01;02;42;07 If they're sprinting in front of their peers because they have to run at 100% max effort, they're going to improve their time at the combine. Okay, So there is a place for training intensity, don't get me wrong. And I know that, however, most people that's not enough for them. Yep. 01;02;42;10 - 01;03;02;25 And it's a buildup. I mean, that's and that's what you and I are trying to drive the point home to be is you got to work towards it takes patience takes an understanding you know the risk failure component understanding how the outcomes are presenting themselves to where injury now is is a factor that weighs into the decisions and things like that. 01;03;02;25 - 01;03;28;25 Yeah, it's complicated and we're just jamming it into an hour and 15 minute conversation, but we're getting closer to the the granular details of somebody being able to be informed just enough to make make a decision, if not a better decision on how to approach you even better. It's just thing though. Sorry. The last thing is, is the recovery because now if you're doing that all day, you're burning calories, you're burning things. 01;03;28;25 - 01;03;36;25 So you have to also factor in these small movements, is that right? And what you're going to put back in your body for now. 01;03;36;27 - 01;03;38;24 Will help Help me understand that question. I mean. 01;03;38;26 - 01;03;54;15 So if you're if you're if you and I are, like standing here for an hour, we're actively moving our ankles or we're doing some squats, we're doing some things to where it doesn't feel like we're putting in work because we're not getting too sweaty. You know, we're not feeling like what we typically would understand to be like, Wow, is a rough workout. 01;03;54;17 - 01;04;01;24 You still have to put things in your body to account for the activities, which it doesn't necessarily feel like it's an exerting workout. Yeah. 01;04;01;26 - 01;04;36;27 In terms of like nutrition, like fuel, like. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So I would say this if you like, we're all probably under hydrated, right? So hard. I listen, I'm not a dietitian, but I've worked with dietitians for years. The amount of problems that they saw with people by having people drink more water, that's foundational, right? So, yeah, so I would say I would say, considering that my my, my nutrition mindset is I need to fuel my body according to whatever my goals aren't any be intentional about that. 01;04;36;29 - 01;05;06;02 The foundation of that is hydration. So starts from there right. And then goes so. So yeah, definitely I definitely need to I need to fuel my body according to what I'm doing. And to be honest, as you start thinking about nutrition, our dietitians are going to program your macros based upon your goals and your activity, right? So if you're if your goal is to lose weight and you're very sedentary, you're not going to get a whole lot of carbohydrate. 01;05;06;04 - 01;05;31;16 You're going to get like a minimum dose of carbohydrate according to what your goals on the challenges grass is that most Americans eat enough carbohydrate every day to fuel a jet from New York to L.A. but they're sitting there desk their right. So carbohydrates are not bad. They are wonderful. They are necessary. They are grains, number one, source of fuel challenges. 01;05;31;16 - 01;05;35;04 We need too many of them. And we eat of all kinds. 01;05;35;06 - 01;05;46;24 Right. And you said it. You said it early on, moderation. So intentional moderation that factors into what your goals are. Yeah. And being being informed. Yes. Yeah. 01;05;46;26 - 01;06;08;27 I've been doing this at excess for six years, but I've been in this between, you know, master's degree and exercise. I've been in this for 20 years now. The more I learn, the more I realize it comes down to doing simple things savagely. Will Being consistent is far more important than your training intensity. The greatest training program that someone could write for you does not work. 01;06;08;27 - 01;06;27;28 If you don't do it. You've got to find something that works for you and you have consistency with it. And to close this out, right. And I know again, if you want to go deeper on some things, we can, but if you want to optimize your health, if you want to optimize your performance, if you want sustainability, okay, I need to fuel my body properly according to what my goals are. 01;06;28;01 - 01;06;53;26 I need to understand that work plus rest equals adaptation. And I put just as much emphasis on my recovery like sleep as I do anything else. And I need to understand that daily movement, whether it is physical activity or exercise in order to improve my performance, all of those keys are necessary for me to have health and sustainability and have performance relative to what that means for me. 01;06;53;28 - 01;07;24;07 Got it. Makes sense. Yep. And on that, we'll wrap because what's coming up next in the next couple episodes will include what Anthony just talked about, the recovery components, breaking those down, sleep nutrition, all the things that now up to this point, you've had fundamentals introduced to you. You know, you know what exercise does. You know what they do well, you know the types of individuals they bring in with the level of knowledge and investment they have in their job, in their role. 01;07;24;09 - 01;07;43;09 And then there's a plant, there's words used to organize how you can approach what it is that you want to do. The only way that it's going to be effective is to learn more about what those steps are that you need to take for your level of ability. And then do it. Do it, too. The way that's been illustrated for you. 01;07;43;11 - 01;07;54;02 For you. Yup. And I like that at the end. The best training plan is the one you're doing a year from now because that shows that it worked for you and then we move forward. 01;07;54;04 - 01;08;18;22 And listen seriously. A good CliffsNotes wrap up, maintain and develop the quality of your ankle, hip and thoracic spine mobility. Okay? Have a foundational level of aerobic capacity so that you can support your life and exercise. And when it to strength training, train the big rock moves of the body, pushing, pulling upper body, lower body core stability, rotational. 01;08;18;24 - 01;08;32;00 Okay, build that into a training plan for a week, something that sustainable that you can do in duration. Something's better than nothing and slowly build on that as you go and you'll have a great, great daily training plan. 01;08;32;02 - 01;08;34;23 No, no, keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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Oracle's Caroline Hejazi: Military Spouse and MAVEN Community Lead 55:33

3 years55:33

55:33

Caroline shares with us a little about her early years growing up with the influences that would later shape her mindset and approach to educational goals, relationships, and career choices. As we listen to Caroline’s story, one cannot help but to also hear how her consistency has given the impression of how easy it is to maneuver through life’s experiences, when in fact, things aren’t as simple as they seem. Contact info – LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/carolinekmhejazi Resources: HOH – Hiring our Heroes – they have a fellowship program just for Mil Spouses that is quite popular. https://www.hiringourheroes.org/career-services/military-spouse-resources/ O2O – Onward to Opportunity – great resource that helps Mil Spouses with education and professional certifications. https://ivmf.syracuse.edu/programs/career-training/ Military OneSource – general resource for military families. https://www.militaryonesource.mil/about-us/ #LinkedInMilCity – great resource for networking. https://www.linkedin.com/company/linkedinmilcity/ PsychArmor. https://psycharmor.org/…

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Military Spouse Appreciation: Jessica Hunt 49:51

3 years49:51

49:51

Chris Spencer sits with Jessica Hunt, military spouse, mom, and Director of Impact in The Honor Foundation’s San Diego chapter. Talking about the early beginnings of setting out on her path and marrying her best friend as he begins his military career, where they make life changing decisions to support the balance of military, family, and other personal choices, Jessica shares challenges faced along the way. Don't Just Survive, THRIVE. The sign that will be an important shift in moving forward. Common within the military spouse community, Jesi illustrates how a resilient mindset nudges oneself towards constant growth through service and support of others. Looking for support? View these resources: - https://www.militaryonesource.mil/family-relationships/spouse/military-life-for-spouses/military-life-for-spouses-the-essentials/ - https://www.tricare.mil/CoveredServices/BenefitUpdates/Archives/04_23_2020_TRICARE_offers_telehealth_services_for_mental_health_care - https://www.militaryonesource.mil/education-employment/for-spouses/for-spouses-benefits/ - https://honor.org/…

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PsychArmor with Carole Turner 46:21

3 years46:21

46:21

Chris Spencer sits with PsychArmor's Vice President of Strategic Communications, Carole Turner. Carole speaks to PsychArmor's mission, introduces the "Behind the Mission" podcast she leads, in addition to sharing what it is like being a 30 year USMC spouse. Carole shares a little of her background in education and communications and how it has contributed to her passion for helping others in a variety of roles. We are grateful for Carole as well as the partnership with PsychArmor as they continue their mission to serve. https://psycharmor.org/ https://psycharmor.org/podcast…

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The Travis Manion Foundation with Heather Kelly 44:39

3 years44:39

44:39

Chris Spencer and Gerry Borja connected with Travis Manion Foundation’s Heather Kelly. Heather is regional manager of the west and pacific northwest region for TMF and is the surviving gold star spouse of a Marine who was killed in Afghanistan in 2010. TMF strives to unite and strengthen communities by training, developing, and highlighting the role models that lead them. We develop programs, training opportunities, and events designed to empower veterans and families of the fallen, and then inspire them to pass on their values to the next generation and the community at large. "IF NOT ME, THEN WHO..." https://www.travismanion.org/…

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The Honor Foundation with Michael Halterman 1:12:08

3 years1:12:08

1:12:08

Chris Spencer sits down with Michael Halterman and covers Michael's military experience, the choices that earned him a place within the Marine Special Operations Community, and eventually the current position he holds at THF. Michael unpacks detail that describes the mission of THF and how much immediate impact the meaningful work the professionals within the organization have on the veteran-affiliated community.…

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Oracle's Shane Ruiz: Product Marketing and Army Veteran 1:12:24

3 years1:12:24

1:12:24

Chris Spencer and Shane Ruiz have an in-depth conversation surrounding Shane's choices leading towards military service, the experiences and relationships made along the way and how it all shaped his trajectory to find his true passion and purpose; ultimately landing him in his current role as a Senior Director for Product Marketing within one of Oracle's Global Business Units. https://www.lionheartedfilm.com/…

MAVEN

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Introducing MAVEN 7:45

3 years7:45

7:45

This is the MAVEN podcast intro episode that offers a brief summary of the show's intent. We're happy you're here.

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EXOS: The Human Performance Model with Stefan Underwood 1:11:42

2 years1:11:42

1:11:42

Picking up where we left off from our first EXOS episode with Anthony Hobgood, who shared the foundation of EXOS and a summary of the EXOS mission, Stefan breaks down 3 pillars of the EXOS methodology – Psychological Drivers, Performance Capacity, and Functional State. While setting us up with how he came to be in his current position, Stefan laid the framework for us to know how the role he earned brings people together who specialize in the variety of expertise necessary to tailor the treatments to the individuals and meet them where they are so they can get them ready. From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…Be Ready as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - sunderwood@teamexos.com - ahobgood@teamexos.com - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;03 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized sessions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode of our EXOS series, I'm joined by our guest, Stefan Underwood, senior vice president of Methodology at EXOS. 00;00;28;07 - 00;01;01;06 Picking up where we left off from our first EXOS episode with Anthony Hopgood, who shared the foundation of EXOS and a summary of the EXOS mission. Stefan breaks down three pillars of the EXOS methodology psychological drivers, performance capacity and functional state, while setting us up with how he came to be in his current position, Stefan laid out the framework for us to know how the role he earned brings people together who specialize in the variety of expertise necessary to tailor the treatments to the individuals and meet them where they are so they can get them ready from individuals, athletes to businesses or military. 00;01;01;09 - 00;01;22;27 Be ready as we continue the mission to serve. Stefan's contact details are in the podcast Description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Stefan How are you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing well. Chris Thanks. Thanks for having me on and doing really well and playing. 00;01;22;27 - 00;01;39;12 Been on the road the last couple of weeks, so it's my first day back in office and it's good to be home. Yeah, well, traveling is nice, I bet, huh? You know, it's it's it's good. It's one of those things. Goldilocks grateful, right? Like too much of it starts to grate, but I also start to lose my mind at home. 00;01;39;18 - 00;01;57;22 Non stop the right amount. The right amount does the trick. I find. So yeah, I had a couple a couple weeks of travel to spend some time in Phenix with teammates, which was fantastic. And then I just got back from New York to work and again with the company and doing a doing a little bit of a course for one of our clients. 00;01;57;26 - 00;02;18;15 So back home now and ready to focus. But it's great to be talking to you today. Yeah, likewise. And I'm excited and thanks for for taking the time to do your schedule. I mean, that's just an example, I'm sure, how busy you are. So very grateful for your your time and affording us the opportunity to get in some details and pick up a little bit from where we left off with with Anthony on on the first episode. 00;02;18;15 - 00;02;48;02 And so for everybody listening, you know, EXOS is one of the leading organized nations in performance management. Today we have Stefan Underwood, who's a senior vice president of Methodology, that will specifically talk about the next pillar or the component of what makes us or gives us an opportunity to think about how we can be better in not only just in the things that we do from a physical component, but also the mindset and nutrition and all all those things coming together. 00;02;48;02 - 00;03;04;21 So, Stefan, if you wouldn't mind just and you can start from wherever you wish, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be where you are. Yeah, I appreciate it. So I guess we can start with that title you do there. Senior Vice President Methodology People look at me and say, What does that mean? 00;03;04;26 - 00;03;29;17 You know, it's not a common title. And I think that fits with my whole career. I keep trying to figure out what I'm going to be when I grow up, and 20 years later, I'm still sometimes trying to figure it out. But is senior vice President methodology what that means? We have this methodology team at Excel, so we have we are a group of subject matter experts, which basically means I get to hang out with people a lot smarter than myself. 00;03;29;19 - 00;03;51;29 I've got a team with quite a few PhDs and we built the team in this intentional manner where we want to have a set number of individuals with a truly deep subject matter expertise. We've got a Ph.D. in applied neuroscience on the team who's an expert in flow state. We've got a clinical psychologist on the team, an executive coach. 00;03;52;02 - 00;04;24;28 We've got a Ph.D. in rehabilitative sciences and dietetics. We've got physio, physical therapists, we've got strength conditioning coaches. So we've got these people who have a deep domain expertise. I think what I bring to the team and what I've been fortunate enough to lead this team is if we call them vertical thinkers. I've always been a little bit of a horizontal thinker, so that ability to tie concepts together to create this holistic approach to how we view any problem of human performance. 00;04;25;00 - 00;04;48;19 So whether that's working in our work setting and saying, listen, burnout in the workplace, it's a real thing. How do we holistically view solving the problem of burnout in the workplace or whether we're looking at our NFL combine program and saying, Hey, you need to run faster? We're like, What does it take to physically, mentally in nutrition, nutrition, aspect to recovery? 00;04;48;19 - 00;05;07;02 Like how does it work? Does it take to have an individual run a faster 40? And then the same is true with the work we do in the tactical space, which is actually where I came into the company 12 years ago, was to work specifically in the tactical environment down in Gulf Breeze, Florida with Anthony. We worked together in the same facility for years. 00;05;07;02 - 00;05;28;19 I love the guy. He's fantastic and we have a variety of programs down there working with the tactical population and helping them get back to hopefully an individuals getting back to a place where they can deploy or at least they can separate on their terms if they're not able to get back to a place where they can deploy. 00;05;28;19 - 00;05;46;20 So that's called our accelerated return to duty. That's through a benevolent fund called the Eagle Fund. So in all those different aspects of our company, we want to say, you know, what's the holistic approach to support the human in front of us? Like there's a person standing in front of us, they've got something that's meaningful to them and how do we support them? 00;05;46;20 - 00;06;16;14 And that takes everything from psychology to nutrition to movement to all the different things I mentioned. So that's what our methodology team is meant to be as that sort of central team of subject matter experts in our company. Got it. Nice tone of questions coming up. I can already feel it circulate in my head. What got you interested in this field when you first came in before Access kind of lead us up to that that passion or was it purpose or accident? 00;06;16;17 - 00;06;41;01 A little bit about a little bit of everything? It's a good question. So I feel like I was a kid growing up. Sports was my life. I felt most at home when I was moving. I came from a really highly academic family and my father's a really bright man with multiple degrees and my brother's got four degrees with a Ph.D. in quantum physics. 00;06;41;01 - 00;07;04;21 And I was at like, I almost all like the black sheep either. But I think what was cool about that was, you know, I credit my father a lot with not putting a pressure on me to be something I'm not and saying, listen and like it's that's it feels your fire. You have this passion for movement, sports, exercise, whatever get go pursue that like who cares what it leads to. 00;07;04;21 - 00;07;22;27 You don't have to think about what your job is going to be right now, but, you know, go pursue that. So I got into kinesiology with no idea what I would do with it. I did not have a career in mind and I'm not I've never been one of the people with a five year plan, ten year plan, and I'm not about that. 00;07;23;01 - 00;08;03;15 I'm the worst person for interns to talk to because I feel like I just wouldn't do the best work I could finding something I enjoyed doing. And when a door would open, I'd say, Yeah, that sounds good, I'll do that. I was the person who said yes to everything. And so as I as I walked through my career, starting off almost accidentally as a strength and conditioning coach, which was my background, starting 20 years ago, I started working with youth athletes like a lot do, moved to Indianapolis, Indiana, and got a great opportunity with a group, their constituents in sport performance, where they started getting exposed to some pro athletes and the first pro athlete 00;08;03;15 - 00;08;25;25 I worked with I remember was an IndyCar driver and like I know nothing on NPR, I've never driven IndyCar. I thought it was comical that they needed a strength and conditioning coach. I'm like, You're driving a car, buddy. Like the gas is on the right, brakes on the left, and I don't even know where your clutch is, but it made me step back and view human performance as a puzzle. 00;08;25;27 - 00;08;43;02 I said, What are the pieces to this puzzle? And I have always been a real curious and inquisitive person, so I stepped back and started investigating what an Indiana driver needed and what I learned, even though I had never driven any car, was, you know, through a heart rate monitor on them for for a race and learned it for two and a half hours. 00;08;43;02 - 00;09;08;08 His heart rate was humming around like 167 and understanding that he's pulling 4 to 6 g’s for about 5 seconds at a time, every 18 seconds on repeat for like 2 hours. And so just to understand what are the physical and mental demands associated with with that sport, and I supported it. And I think that's one of the areas where I've maybe managed to carve out a little bit of a spot for myself in this industry. 00;09;08;08 - 00;09;32;21 Is, you know, the ability to step back and look at the puzzle and not necessarily being the person who has had to be in those shoes. I wasn't a football player that worked with football athletes. You know, my sport background is mostly rugby was the sport I played at the highest level and I've only worked with a few rugby players, you know, But so next up was Skeleton Athlete. 00;09;32;21 - 00;09;49;05 I worked with an Olympic skeleton athlete. Skeleton is for those that don't know, it's not a sport, it is an Olympic sport. The Winter Olympics skeleton is like luge. You're going down the bobsleigh track with your on your stomach going face first with no brakes. And again, I just started looking at what are the physical demands. You've got to start. 00;09;49;08 - 00;10;08;18 You've got to be able to sprint from these positions. You've got this long to accelerate a certain amount. Then you got to load onto your sled and then you're pulling G-forces. And how do you see you're in control? And again, just try and break the code, break a puzzle. So I was 15 years ago, I had an opportunity. 00;10;08;18 - 00;10;28;15 I was working in hockey at the time. I got an opportunity to head out to Colorado Springs, to the National Strength and Conditioning Association, to be the manager of their international facility, their governing body, for an industry of strengthening conditioning. And the two biggest contracts that they had that I would be servicing. One was in hockey and that's what got my foot in the door. 00;10;28;15 - 00;10;44;29 It was with a one of the top D-1 college hockey teams in the nation coming out of college. And then the other one was the Special Forces out of Colorado Springs. And I guess I said enough of the right things in the in the interview process. But I had no experience working with the tactical population at that point in time. 00;10;45;02 - 00;11;11;00 And I had not walked in their shoes, nor did I pretend to. But I had a big respect for the population and felt a calling to really dive in more with that population. And I was really motivated and inspired to be able to, you know, meet these individuals and work with them and feel that I was supporting them in a completely by accident and changed the trajectory of my career. 00;11;11;02 - 00;11;40;22 And I, you know, I remember making about to work with them for a bit of a in 14 years ago, 13 years ago, maybe when together I made an intentional decision, said I don't need to work with athletes anymore. I'd like to support this this tactical population. And and this was way back when, you know, civilian support or strength and conditioning was just starting to take off within the so called community that was called the T program. 00;11;40;25 - 00;12;13;08 I was part of helping with that and running that conference when I was at the NSA. Two or three programs to the Army were just kicking off. But every everything was there wasn't there wasn't even one centralized approach yet for support. And so I had a couple education courses that were sort of like a train, the trainer or individuals to come in and learn about holistic strength and conditioning and how to take care of themselves and how to carry that when they're deployed, how to continue to put that together. 00;12;13;08 - 00;12;38;14 And I managed to get a job that's when I joined EEXOS. It was company called Athletes Performance at the time, and I joined to head up our tactical education and very intentionally wanted to hear that population. And so, so all that is to say, I think I've got a lot of different opportunities in my career because I just always said yes and didn't know what door would open. 00;12;38;14 - 00;12;56;11 But when I found a door that I was passionate, poured myself into it. And what it led me to was this feeling of being a jack of all trades. And the negative side of that is the master of none, right? And I felt like I could sort of in a lot of circles, but it felt like a jack of all trades. 00;12;56;13 - 00;13;24;17 And I was speaking with an individual friend of mine that I've known for a long time, was a great coach and this was several years ago now. So when you got to stop using the term jack of all trades, that because that devalues what you bring to a team because people think in master of none and he said what you have is broad spectrum competency and that is absolutely an asset that you can bring to any organization or any team. 00;13;24;20 - 00;14;04;29 You have the ability to tie things together so you can see where this is going on most days. Years ago, I was asked by EEXOS to step into more of a leadership role. I don't actively coach anymore, but to lead this team of domain experts and you know, that can be intimidating. I'm like, man, I'm just I'm sitting here with the higher education managing a team of these, but I'm able to do and because of realizing this broad spectrum competency and how to build frameworks and how to tie type concepts together and tie threads together, all paired with a career of looking at a human in front of me and saying, whatever it is you 00;14;04;29 - 00;14;25;06 want to do, whoever you are, you know, relative to you, what's important to you and how do we get you ready for that? Let me understand. Physically mental, emotionally, what you're going through. And then let's just understand human bodies, the human body. So let's draw from that broad spectrum competency and say these are the things that we think it all about the most. 00;14;25;08 - 00;14;50;09 And what led to what we're seeing our methodology team and where I am today within the company. Sorry, a long answer. No, that that's perfect and that that latter part that does it I can see where you're going with it and it comes together from a natural, innate ability where some of us don't recognize and I think it's kind of cool that your dad had recognized that and encouraged it. 00;14;50;12 - 00;15;14;04 And of course, we didn't talk in detail about how all that went down. But just a simple recognition of how you were applying, what you wanted to do, how it evolved. And you certainly got you contributed significantly to where you are today because of that curiosity being allowed to just generate on your own curiosity and then identify things and then totally associate with the master of none concept. 00;15;14;07 - 00;15;43;25 And I really like that broad spectrum competency phrase. It sounds a lot better, doesn't it? I mean, I'm still in it for sure because it does. Yeah, right. Is it a thing like is that a term that because now you boxed it in and now we can call it a name? I think so. I mean, like I said, I got I got it from I got from a coach and I know that we're to the US national soccer team worked with some pro teams in your other and I don't I don't even know where he got it from but the same thing him, I had the same response. 00;15;43;25 - 00;16;11;08 I said, I'm feeling that yeah I means now how I describe myself because the psychology of it, it's it's more accurate and because of how, you know, people will use it. And this is what the episode's about and phrases and things. But, you know, when, when we have a way of thinking, I think it is attributed to a way of thinking of the past and how we just automatically, we intuitively resort to a phrase or a way of thinking based off of how we've been brought up to consistently use that phrase. 00;16;11;08 - 00;16;42;20 And now without even thinking, we just refer to it as it's something where it does become cliche. And a lot of people, when you're talking about it, that could be the thing that could now. And you talked about with ten group saying the right things at the right time that could prevent you from being brought into based off of your skill set into an element that you can leverage that skill set to improve not only the people around you but yourself, because how we refer to things because it does undervalue what you've learned along the way, right? 00;16;42;25 - 00;17;06;14 And so, yeah, I believe in that. And again, it's not about the phrase, it's about the element. And in the other part of it too is the horizontal thinker, the visual that that painted. When you said that immediately had me understanding exactly what it meant, because there are those types, there's ones that understand things in a way that they're very specialized in their thinking and they wrap that into the things that they do. 00;17;06;16 - 00;17;27;15 And then there's some of us who don't have that skill set develop that way, and we can see the field, if you will see the play develop with the players along the way and knowing how to and this is like team building stuff, right, which is that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think when it's done, you go back to reference, you know, you're right. 00;17;27;15 - 00;17;42;15 We didn't go deep into what I think what my what I want my dad afforded me and I appreciate I am of that but like it's been a hard time. I remember so many of my friends it's like I'm in this point in life. I've got to figure out the next steps. I got to. I got to get married. 00;17;42;20 - 00;17;57;00 Like I got to meet a girl, I got to get married, I got to buy a house and I got out my career. Guess that's what we got to do, right? Like in whatever order is going to happen and Dad was really good about, like, man, like, sometimes you can let life come to you. I think you don't have to rush everything. 00;17;57;03 - 00;18;25;22 And and so here we are like, look, I always had a big chip on my shoulder. I was, you know, I'm surrounded by individuals with higher education. I said I came from an academic family, like if nothing more than just to stick it to my brother, who's got all these degrees in this Ph.D. in quantum physics. I always felt like I should do more and immediately see, I would have I would have been doing it for the wrong reasons, not because I would have just done a master's or in in exercise science. 00;18;25;24 - 00;18;48;26 And honestly, what would that have done for me? It would have done things for sure, without doubt, but it would have just driven me deeper into one area of expertise, which I don't think lends itself well to who I am realizing I am as a horizontal thinker. And and so now here I am in my forties, and I actually have now gone back to school and am pursuing a master's now. 00;18;48;28 - 00;19;27;00 But it's an organizational psychology. I let life come to me. I found a passion that next passion, organizational psychology. I'm continuing to build the breadth of knowledge that applies to different situations. And if I would have in my twenties and thirties done a master's, there's no way it would have been work for psych. But here I am now pursuing a master's in organizational psychology to understand organizations and teams better to layer on top of my unique experience and strength and conditioning and human performance that allows me to understand the individual better and to be able to come out of problems in large organizations from both ends, from the top down organizationally with the bottom model, 00;19;27;00 - 00;19;56;10 how are you supporting the people that make up that organization? And so I appreciate it. I didn't feel the need to rush in. So here I am with two kids and I need a career and traveling and peace and in a master's on the side. But it's something that I'm finding really engaging now. I got it. And then it's a philosophical approach that manifest itself in the relationships that develop as a result of what you do in your field, in your line of work. 00;19;56;13 - 00;20;27;15 Does it translate to your clients? Because when when you have that in performance where there's no immediate gratification as a result of lifting a weight one time and all of a sudden you're there, that's relations has to develop, so let it come to you. So talk a little bit about that philosophical idea of the lessons you've learned and how you're able to sincerely deliver that as a component to help others be successful in what they're trying to get to. 00;20;27;18 - 00;20;54;11 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so Carol Dweck, many know the name in the Book of Mindset has written about mindset and coined the term, you know, time, a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. And I've always said like if you're going to work in strength and conditioning, you had better have a growth mindset because the pure fundamental belief that with effort in time you get better and then we can tie in. 00;20;54;11 - 00;21;13;04 Angela Duckworth, where she was the person who coined the term grit or came up with the concept of grit, right. This idea that persistence in the absence of immediate reward, if you don't have those two things and strength and conditioning is wrong for you because you just called it out, I don't squat once and be like, Well, damn, I'm stronger. 00;21;13;06 - 00;21;37;00 We have to put in an effort to seek an adaptation, to seek a change. And so I think that has been a core lesson. That has been one of the themes since I started my careers, you know, 20, 20 years ago. It because inherently when you're working with humans, you've got to recognize there's not always this instant gratification and so you've got to give it time. 00;21;37;03 - 00;21;59;06 And so that's one of the key things that I think has shaped things for me. And then the other when it comes to what we are going to talk about today and how people can get ready for a goal or the next chapter or whatever it is and how it's individualized to them is everyone is an and everyone everyone is their own person with their own background, their own goals, their own, their own everything. 00;21;59;08 - 00;22;39;16 And so the larger the tool belt that you can draw, the better the chance you can understand them and support them. And I think that that's been the strength of this unconventional path I've taken through my career and being this horizontal thinker and being a person who is curious. But seeks breadth of knowledge. Right. As well as depth and didn't just pursue one avenue really, because when you when you really think about what is supporting people, there's a there's a book that's called Where Good Ideas come From and it talks about the the adjacent possible. 00;22;39;19 - 00;23;06;23 And so it's this idea of if you look at where many good ideas have come from, let's take developing the an incubator for premature baby. One of the biggest developments in pediatric medicine, you know, has hugely changed the survival rate of premature babies breast as a species, right. That came from a doctor visiting a farm and seeing what had been done for ages before it. 00;23;06;24 - 00;23;31;08 Little chicks under a heat lamp right. So the adjacent possible is this taking a field that is adjacent to your field or an area of study or an area of thought that is adjacent to where you are and learning from them? And that's where the best ideas come from, the best innovation. And so there's this analogy of if you're building a house, right, like I can have one room call that room strength and conditioning and just keep putting more furniture in the room. 00;23;31;11 - 00;24;10;11 But that's just like, that's a blue couch and to paying out for those couches or I can study you learn from engage in adjacent fields and I can add another room to my house, right. And grill my house that way. And I think that that's what I've done through my career. And so now when we're in this position where we want to help someone get ready for whatever is in front of them, having that breadth of knowledge spanning from multiple aspects of human performance above the shoulders, below the shoulders, getting into psychology, neuroscience, all these different things and have a breadth of it, it helps you create a tailor approach versus being the guy who 00;24;10;11 - 00;24;26;12 shows up. Where there's the old expression of all you have is a hammer. You know, everything looks like a nail if you've only got one tool. And then that tool just I mean, it becomes snake oil, right? Chris, Let me tell you about. I got a fix for you. Yeah, it's the same thing that I recommended to those ten people before you. 00;24;26;12 - 00;24;53;03 But like, I've got the solution for you and it just becomes snake oil versus being able to meet people where they're at, seeing them as an individual, going back to the problem solving, understanding problem of human performance. They're trying to uniquely sell it and saying, listen, we've got to have a construct, if you will, in Texas. We've actually my team has built a model of human performance that explains a human in the world doing anything like doing something in the world. 00;24;53;05 - 00;25;13;10 And the categories we need to look through of how to support them. You start being able to create an individualized approach like set it and have one meet the person in front of you and then say, All right, let's let's help you achieve that goal. And I get to talking to a friend earlier, and we were making a distinction between attachment and commitment. 00;25;13;12 - 00;25;43;23 And I can't help as you're talking about this, an attachment to an approach, how it how it was, how you feel it should be. And you're talking about adjacent ideas or possible possibilities, which I we're going to get into this is the segway into that is is developing a bunch of people that not developing a team with a bunch of people that when an individual comes in yesterday could be different than what they come in today with is like, oh, something's Pynchon me here. 00;25;43;23 - 00;26;07;01 Oh well, that wasn't in our plan. Go to the other room that you're referring to in the analogy, go to the other room, let's fix that first and then we'll come back to the already scheduled program, which is the commitment instead of the attachment into an original plan. Because a plan is just a plan. You're committed to the philosophical approach of meeting people where they are, which is, I love that. 00;26;07;03 - 00;26;32;22 So let's get into it. So let's talk about the methodology. Yeah, absolutely. So I referenced that we created this model of human performance. We said, I mean, as a company, again, we we work with a lot of different populations in a lot of different areas, but we said we've got to find a Reddit thread between that person who's sitting in a corner. 00;26;32;23 - 00;27;03;10 We're in room versus that person who's a roughneck on an oil rig versus that person who's a nurse in a hospital environment versus that person who's in a tactical environment versus that athlete who earns their money from spot on and on and on and on Right. And the one thing that unites all those examples is that they're human. And so if we can say, let's let's say, what are all the things that we know, like poring through the literature, we know about humans, right? 00;27;03;10 - 00;27;25;01 And by no means do we claim to have it all solved. But if we can start honing a bit of a checklist together, coming up with what our key buckets are to look at, in any situation, it can create a consistent way of thinking that does not lead to cookie cutter approach for people. So this is what I love about methodology. 00;27;25;01 - 00;27;48;11 Some people hear methodology and I think of it as cookie cutter. Okay, so methodology. So this is the way you work out. If I come to excel, you do these things and no matter who I am, you do the same things. That's cookie cutter. I don't like that. Absolutely not. Methodology does not mean cookie cutter methodology is the the structure, the construct, the approach we take to meeting everybody on an individual level as a man of one. 00;27;48;14 - 00;28;08;24 And so we start by saying they're human. We ought to look at the elements that they're putting in front of us, and there's a lot we will go to all of them on this episode, purely because it would take too much time or probably more people. Not everything that's exciting to me is exciting to everybody else. I've learned that my wife reminds me all the time, but what I would say that really matters. 00;28;08;24 - 00;28;41;29 There's three things that jump out to me when a person is standing in front of us, physically or figuratively. The first is understanding what we call their psychological drivers. It's their why write it and sort of break down that more psychological drivers. We really talk about understanding over time their values, their goals and their motivations. Now, I say over time, because if we don't have a relationship, it we just matter about what you deeply value the most. 00;28;42;06 - 00;29;03;09 Like that isn't necessarily the best approach to getting that conversation. But I can start a goals. What are you trying to achieve? And I don't need to know why that's important to you just yet. Now, in the long run, coaching you. If I can build a meaningful relationship and trust and in time understand why that is important to you, then that's an even more successful coaching environment. 00;29;03;09 - 00;29;29;12 But upfront, I just need to know what your goal is. In fact, this has this this slogan, if you will get you ready. And we did not want it to just be a tagline or a slogan like we wanted it to have a meaning. And this construct, this framework provides the meaning behind that. But the very next question after someone says, like, If X gets you ready, the very next logical question has to be will get ready for what? 00;29;29;14 - 00;29;52;24 I need to know your goal. Even if the goal is to run a marathon, there's a difference between I'm trying to run my first marathon, I'm trying to qualify for Boston. I'm trying to win an Olympic gold in the marathon. All three of those things are different, even though the goal is still running a marathon. So I need to specifically understand the goals and then in time understand your motivations and your values as we build a relationship. 00;29;52;29 - 00;30;20;06 So we call all that your psychological drivers. The goal is what gives context to everything else, right? It's where it tells us what you need to be able to achieve, what skills and abilities you have to have to be able to achieve that goal. That brings us to the next category in our I'm always told to put the science away, but like we've labeled and I'm told I'm not a good marketer, but we label it performance capacity. 00;30;20;08 - 00;30;45;07 But it's a fancy way for saying like, what are your skills and your abilities? And we categorize those skills and abilities, skills and abilities being things that are measurable and movable so we can measure them and we can influence them through training, through programs, and we look at performance capacity of a person across the domains of the movement, including mindset, nutrition movement and recovery. 00;30;45;09 - 00;31;09;21 So what skills and abilities do you have within recovery? Like sleep is a skill, you know, there's skill around how you sleep. It is something that with effort you can get better at. You know, I've worked with operators that came into us that opened up and shared like they would get one or maybe two sleep cycles in a night broken talk in 75 minutes to 3 hours of sleep a night for years. 00;31;09;24 - 00;31;34;29 And after a few months it showed that they were sleeping for 8 hours a night. And you want to talk about changing someone's life or helping them change their own life. They give someone their sleep back. Holy crap, it has an impact. It's feedback. Yeah, it's huge. So sleep is a skill. But then within movement, you know, you talk about things like how strong someone is, how someone is, how powerful someone is, right? 00;31;35;02 - 00;32;02;03 Within nutrition, we talk about things like their body composition or their gut microbiome, and then within mindset, we talk about things like their self-awareness. How self-aware are you? That is a skill, that is a muscle that can be flexed and you can get better at that. We can improve our inner awareness, right? Regulation. Self regulation. Again, that is something that can be practiced and you can get better at that. 00;32;02;06 - 00;32;20;29 That's been a big one for me as I get into leadership roles. I was always like year in, year out. My review was you wear your heart on your sleeve and we know when you're pissed off, you know when you're happy, you can't hide it. If you are annoyed with something that someone says on a call. But I identified early on, get ready. 00;32;21;03 - 00;32;36;27 Get ready for what? I didn't want to be an emotional leader. When I was given a leadership opportunity. I wanted to be a steady leader. I didn't want to be emotional and I didn't want to have you know, I didn't want to wear my heart on my sleeve at all times. Not saying I'm hiding who I am, but I wanted to be steady and awful in my approach. 00;32;36;29 - 00;32;59;18 Yeah, you don't you want to be a robot, you know, you got to connect, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I realize I need to be better about regulation. I needed to learn how to take that and breathe for a minute and. And then come with a more measured response. And so. So I'm working on my dog a lot, on my inner awareness and my self-regulation over the last five years. 00;32;59;20 - 00;33;23;05 Eight years, I see a big difference. So so we look at all the skills and abilities that a person has. And I said that a goal breeds or gives context to what's important. If I'm working with someone who's trying to run 40 yards as fast as they can, I put more of an emphasis on how strong they are, how powerful they are, Maybe their body composition. 00;33;23;08 - 00;33;47;17 Whereas if I'm working with someone in a executive boardroom, you know, it doesn't necessarily I, I had to make sure that you're more powerful or stronger or fitter and you improve your VO2 max. And I might talk about self-awareness and reflection. And then even when you talk about one skill or ability, that goal gives context to why it's important, which can help it stick as a behavior. 00;33;47;17 - 00;34;10;06 So gut health is a great example. Okay, We hear a lot, right? People talk about the gut microbiome. If I'm worried, I just suck in my stomach. When you said that, yes, enough size of a guy that's going to be is that you talk about like the good bacteria inside our gut, right? The good bacteria inside our gut. 00;34;10;09 - 00;34;40;11 If I'm working with an athlete, they go, so why should I care? Well, I'll talk about something in the line of listen, people say you are what you eat. That's what you are, what you absorb in the inner lining of your guts, going to determine what you absorb from like a micro nutrient like vitamins and minerals standpoint. So when you start talking about wanting to get the most out of your training, out on the field or in the weight room, you talk about wanting to be injury resistant to injury and and making sure that you've got the right micronutrients in your body So operate the best. 00;34;40;13 - 00;35;05;03 That's why you should care about what you eat and eating in a way that supports and fuels and nourishes that gut microbiome. They go, okay, yeah, because it's contextualized to their role. But when I'm working with someone on the emotional regulation, I say, Listen, lots of people heard of serotonin. Serotonin is a neurochemical transmitter, right? Serotonin exists in our brain and it helps us with mood. 00;35;05;05 - 00;35;34;14 It's good. It helps us feel good right? And people have heard of it often because of us, our eyes. When you talk about and if an individual is depressed, that's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Right? So people are often aware of I've heard of this thing serotonin, and I understand it helps my mood and helps me regulate. What people don't often know is 95% of the serotonin that you have inside you is manufactured in your gut. 00;35;34;16 - 00;36;11;06 So you can do all this stuff on regulation and mood and meditation and all this stuff over here. And if you're eating like crap and assaulting your gut microbiome, then you sort of start to make sense. And so you take the same quality or capacity on gut health and you contextualize it because you understood their goal, if that makes sense, does immediately applicable to things I'm thinking about and the correlation of that adjacent understanding, then you can contextualize more skills and abilities to their goals. 00;36;11;09 - 00;36;35;23 If you have the horizontal thought approach is you need to know a little bit about neurochemical transmitters and you need to know a little bit about micronutrients and physical performance to be able to have that conversation. Your pain. Well, one half jokes, you're carrying a lot of responsibility with your role by being that person of of being able to connect the dots. 00;36;35;23 - 00;36;57;26 I'm not saying that the ones that you're dealing with, working with and teaming up with are capable of doing it. But to specifically be designated as the one that's in large part orchestrating all of these folks to come together and be able to bring this information to the top to build that consistency across the board of how it jumps over from thing to thing. 00;36;57;29 - 00;37;20;14 That's it's a lot of it's a lot to, I guess, to consider in what you're doing. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate it. I think the way I, I think the way that I take that idea the way I know it is easy. You're absolutely right. And it does feel like a lot sometimes. But the way I help it and I get to me is twofold. 00;37;20;14 - 00;37;40;14 One, to have a really positive relationship with failure, I'm good at it. That's another one. I'll call back to my dad. I grew up in a household. I'm realizing now how I'm how abnormal of a household I grew up in. And I mean that in a positive way. And I'm just I feel fortunate for it. But I grew up in a household. 00;37;40;14 - 00;38;01;16 My dad, who's a mountain climber, always had like, there's no such thing as failure. There's always success and opportunity to learn. And so that's one that helps with that because I'm not going to get it right. And then the second is that allows me to I don't know where it comes from or the vulnerability. Say, I don't know. 00;38;01;18 - 00;38;14;28 And I think this is one of the things that help me do well with the technical population is I never had to fake that, but I was always willing to say like, I don't know. And and that was just me being me. But what I learned really quickly is I got the best B.S. detector on the face of the planet, and they're going to sniff it out real fast. 00;38;14;28 - 00;38;29;06 If I'm all my ski tips and it's going to hurt a relationship and you're not going to get another chance at that relationship. And so speaking with some confidence when I at least think I know something and again, I say that it's there in times where you start something ten years later, you learn more and you go, Oh crap, I was wrong. 00;38;29;06 - 00;38;49;22 Two years ago. But but to speak with confidence when you should speak with confidence, but to also be able to say, I don't know the answer to that and be okay with that because I don't think there's any human in the world that expects someone to know everything. And so even if it's something, you know, that seems so obvious to you and I don't know, that doesn't diminish me because there are things I probably know that you don't like. 00;38;49;22 - 00;39;16;10 We just have our different backgrounds and I've always been comfortable with that and okay with that. So when you talk about all together for that big company, I think it's a comfortable it's me being comfortable, willing to fail and willing to say I don't know at all and be able to say, I don't know. Yeah, and I think so to go back to kind of connect the dots between conversations that we're having between so far, Anthony and you, we talked about with Anthony Hope, right? 00;39;16;10 - 00;39;46;10 So there's this emotional component of now having the faith to go to a place where we hope that you can help me. What you just said is key for the trust that's established for us. Continue that relationship building process where the hope is you can fix me and I will I will disagree slightly in the saying there are people out there that think that you stuff and know everything and you should be able to fix me because of my perception of value on how I think. 00;39;46;11 - 00;40;17;10 I think you should be able to do what you what I think you do and to the ability to have the humility to say, no, I don't know. But but you've developed the team around you that say, I don't know, but I'm going to pull in so and so I'll get an answer. I'll get an answer that's huge in the things that we're talking about at the moment, because you talk about vulnerability, you being vulnerable and being able to say those things is accepting that humility and the modesty to have the comfortable being comfortable to say that. 00;40;17;10 - 00;40;44;03 But then also recognizing that the ones you're working with are more vulnerable because they're in that state of asking for help, which is not easy. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. Spot on. And and look, it's I think it's so much into it at the end of the day, it's relationship building and it's knowing your strengths, inner awareness, knowing your strengths, you know, when to lean on your strengths and highlight them when not to like it. 00;40;44;06 - 00;41;06;04 It's all I know. We're we're recording this on audio. People can't see me, but I do not look like a straight coach. I'm like the skinniest train coach I've ever seen. Like Anthony is at least one of Anthony's legs is like the size of my torso. And so when we would work with that population or I coached NFL combine with Anthony as well I was the movement coach. 00;41;06;04 - 00;41;33;02 He was the strength coach. And people get in the room and they look and he looks like what a strength coach should look like. So there's an immediate perception. I don't. So I need to know how to build a relationship very quickly and bring build confidence and build their confidence in me that I am competent, but I'm also not blessing them and I need to do that very quickly. 00;41;33;09 - 00;42;01;28 Then say, okay, fine. So so you to 65 and then play football in the SCC. That doesn't mean that you don't know something that can help me with my goals, you know, and that's where self-awareness is, I think, important. But yeah, you're you're spot on that. And so I think that's why I overindex into that because that is my muscle reflex, so to speak, to build that relationship quickly is I don't that anyone teaching it and teach a class. 00;42;01;28 - 00;42;24;27 I had an operator be like man inside his review as he goes inside the first 30 minutes, my thought was, you got to be kidding me. This dude is the one that is teaching this class. I was like, Where does this go on? This is the this is not good feedback. And it was him saying that you showed us very quickly in that first half hour why that was a good thing. 00;42;24;29 - 00;42;40;04 And this is a two week class. And at the end, the two weeks is when he sings and he says this is the best course I've ever taken in my career. And I hung on to that not as an insult in any way. I took it as a huge compliment, huge respect, but as a reminder, saying he was the one that was going to voice everything to others of thought it. 00;42;40;05 - 00;42;58;04 I don't look the role. What is the first impression I need to make and how do I make it? Because visually the first impression is not, Wow, this is the guy that has all the answers to my strength and conditioning needs. Know, but I've got to convince them that I don't have all the answers, but I got enough to make it worth their time in the relationship with me. 00;42;58;06 - 00;43;26;16 You got a team? Yeah, I got a team. Other people to lift heavy crap. That's right. Right. So we had psychological drivers performance capacity. Yeah, There's third. So the third. And this is possibly the most important one. I think the one I enjoy talking about the most. Now that is the most applicable, I feel like in today's world across multiple groups, but it's what we call functional status. 00;43;26;19 - 00;43;49;15 And that's a largely fancy way of saying how recovered are you to think of your skills and your abilities? It doesn't mean that you can tap into them any time, any place. A lot of people think you same bill you know what it what's the world record 9.589.592 months at 400 meters. A lot of people think therefore he's going to run like a nine point something every single time he would sprint and he does. 00;43;49;15 - 00;44;09;09 And there are times he's sprinting as fast as he can. But based on his functional state at a time where he is in his training cycle, how well he's resting, he might run a 1001 1002 We said all the time with these young kids coming out of college that, you know, in their mind they once they've run a44 40 and they are shocked when they run a46 because in their mind they can do it every time. 00;44;09;11 - 00;44;35;03 Let's go away from a sports example. I am physically capable of emotional regulation, but I haven't slept well in four days. I got a bunch of added stressors at home. I just had an argument with my with my wife. All these things happened and then my kid knocks over like a glass and spills some grape juice on the carpet and I lose my crap. 00;44;35;05 - 00;45;08;00 And I'm not capable of emotional regulation in that moment. My functional state wasn't where it needed to be for me to tap into my full level of skill and ability. So we're talking physically or emotionally. We're building tools to use them. But if you don't give yourself the right hands to be recovered, we don't prioritize some of these things like sleep and like energy management, breath work, focus, all these things that help us regulate, like we don't manage our functional state. 00;45;08;02 - 00;45;26;03 We're not going to tap into our full set of skills and abilities that we've worked so hard to build. And so it's I like to say like if you're performance capacity is what you're capable of, your functional state is what you're actually capable of. Right now, performance capacity takes time to change. We've got to be patient. That's the growth mindset you talked about at the beginning. 00;45;26;06 - 00;45;50;18 I know Squat wants to get stronger. It takes me weeks, two months to build my capacity. I've got to focus on something consistently to adapt to grow it. Functional state exchanges second by second, minute by minute at most, day by day. It's a much shorter time horizon and so if we think like I'll often tell people say, you know what, we're talking about your functional status change. 00;45;50;18 - 00;46;14;07 If you heard a loud gunshot outside your door right now, your functional state would immediately change if you were on a work call and someone challenged you in a way you didn't like or said something that really kicked you off your functional state would immediately change. And so a functional state is the shorter time horizon, and it's what lets us actually realize the skills and abilities we've built. 00;46;14;10 - 00;46;34;22 Sometimes it's actually bigger place to focus when you're pursuing a goal to be adequately recovered. For that goal, you can always make it more of an impact that way. And the key is you can't do one or the other. My whole point here is saying to get ready for something when you've got a goal to be ready, what that means is building your capacity, improving your skills and abilities. 00;46;34;22 - 00;47;02;26 Relative the goal, but then recovering ideally so that you are optimized and be able to show up in the moment matters and you can do just one or the other. If we think of it as almost word plus rest or rest equals success. If you do all work and nothing but work, you're in the weight or you're you're you're training as hard as you can or you're you're working on your emotional regulation, your inner awareness, whatever your goal is, you're working on your. 00;47;02;26 - 00;47;19;29 Got it. It's all work. Work, work. But then no rest and recovery. Good luck. But at the same token, if you've got a goal, you can't just go make sure you're optimally recovered in chief. The like. I'd tell the combined guys, right, Like you can't just get to sleep and be recovered if you want to run off for three four day. 00;47;19;29 - 00;47;42;22 We got to put a bigger engine in you as well. So it's the combination of the two, improve what you're capable of and optimize your functional state, your recovery, all relative to the goal. That's what getting ready means. And we've got this framework where whatever a person's goal is, we can say, okay, what are the skills and abilities across mindset, nutrition and recovery that we think matter most to your door? 00;47;42;24 - 00;48;00;09 Like what are your gaps? What's holding you back? And let's come up with a sum of a few evidence based No. One strategies that you commit to consistently to try and improve skills and abilities in that area to reach your goal. But then how are you showing up each day? What are we doing to optimize your focus day? 00;48;00;09 - 00;48;25;01 Where are you doing to take care of yourself? To be recover? Let's identify gaps there to so when the moment matters, you can tap into those skills and abilities we're working so hard to build. And then that's how you get ready for something. Yeah, a couple, a couple immediate scenarios in my head. In everyday life, regardless of your status, position, profession, it's the day to day interactions of what you had already described. 00;48;25;01 - 00;48;55;01 Just, I mean, leaving the house, going to the store, somebody says something and you see something. It it you have a and capable of regulating. But the constant the constant of that and you'd mentioned about somebody over several years no more than 3 hours of sleep where that becomes the norm where you believe that you can function because you're not aware of anything different. 00;48;55;04 - 00;49;16;08 I mean, you probably were in the beginning, like the first couple of times that you had that you're like, Oh, I'm smoked, I'm tired. Yeah. Then after a month, two months, six months, a year, you don't recognize that as being tired anymore. It's just the norm. And so you accept it and you adapt to it and then you don't recognize all of these other variables that come into play of how you're affected by it. 00;49;16;08 - 00;49;42;13 So simple office setting, let's say long day. You feel exhausted when you are talking to folks about what their goals are. Do you get to the level of of things like that on a regular occurrence? Can you walk us through an example of, you know, how you're identifying the norms of what they're saying versus what you're now hearing them not say, if you know what I mean? 00;49;42;15 - 00;50;09;19 Yeah, absolutely Again, it's always building context to them. And I will say before I give an example, I want to say I always feel when I talk with individuals, always in a completely non-judgmental way, there is no judgment whatsoever behind any of it, and it's just presenting them with information and letting them make a decision for them in their life. 00;50;09;22 - 00;50;27;12 That's all we can do. I can't control someone, right? But I can present them with information and see if that influences their behavior And influence behavior over time leads to different outcomes. You know, you said that, and I don't mean to interrupt for just for a short second, because I think that's a lot of the fear that interrupts. 00;50;27;12 - 00;50;48;29 Our ability to want to trust, right, is because they don't want to share a detail. So they I'm sure doctors go through this all the time. They don't want to get looked at or judged or feel judged because of something. Yeah. And now the story starts to shape itself from what they want. You to hear versus what's actually happening, which is kind of the premise of the question. 00;50;48;29 - 00;51;13;01 Are you able to sniff that out? That's it. And so it's looking at what their consistent behaviors are and looking at the goal that they need to do, then presenting them with information. Where I'm going this way, I said no judgment. First, I look, I, I enjoy having a drink. You know, I do and I still do. But I learned the influence alcohol has on my body. 00;51;13;04 - 00;51;37;26 And even when I do not consume a lot of it. And so you look like wearables have become really big nowadays. I'm wearing an order ring. There's straps, even heart rate variability on an Apple Watch. There's wearables that sort of give us a sense of what's called biometric information like bioinformatics and give us a sense of how we're showing up, how our functional state looks in that moment. 00;51;37;28 - 00;52;05;06 And what I've learned is if I have one drink, it's not really much of an effect on my body or me if it's within a few hours of sleep, that second beverage. So I'm nowhere near dry. I do drink my heart rate variability takes my quality of sleep tanks, right? And so again, this where I say it with people like no judgment, I'm not saying you should never have more than one drink. 00;52;05;06 - 00;52;25;19 I'm saying just make your decisions intentionally. So now, do I still have more than one drink and in a single setting? Yes, sometimes. But when I'm in being intentional with saying I'm doing it because I'm prioritizing the community I'm with right now, the social interaction, I'm having these meaningful relationships in my life, I'm having fun, whatever it is. 00;52;25;21 - 00;52;57;18 But tomorrow I know that I don't need to be at my absolute best. But when I show up last week, earlier this week, I said I was in New York and I show up in New York, and it was one of the bigger presentations I've had. And in the year I had to be at my absolute best. I just made an intentional choice the dinner the night before to exclude from it so that I already knew I was fighting an uphill battle on my sleeve because I had changed time zones, right? 00;52;57;19 - 00;53;15;18 I live out west, I've gone up to New York and so I wanted to get enough sleep and I make the decisions because I've got information. So I say, Well, why? Like, what is a night of bad sleep? Or What's a pain Harvey made with heart rate Variability is like an overall it is like an indicator on your dashboard. 00;53;15;20 - 00;53;37;02 It's like an overall indicator of stress. The higher the number, the better. The higher the number, the less stressed you are. So what a heart rate variability actually means. So people are curious. I've heard that and they aren't really familiar. The easiest way to explain our variability is if you take the curious complex like the little blue when you're watching heart rate, right? 00;53;37;02 - 00;54;00;08 Like if you're watching air on TV and you see little or if you time if you if you measure the time interval between the spikes, the vertical spikes, there should be a variance over time in that time interval, meaning our heart rate should not be necessarily questions. They should not be. When we're at a resting state, our heart rate should not be like a metronome. 00;54;00;08 - 00;54;23;00 So if you look at a watch and it oh, my heart rate is 60 beats per minute, it does not mean literally one beat per second like a metronome. It means that it averages 60 beats per minute and sometimes those intervals are closer together. Sometimes they're more spread out. The amount of difference between the time intervals between them is your heart rate variability. 00;54;23;03 - 00;54;46;25 As soon as I get into a fight or flight situation, my body becomes begins to regulate things. Everything becomes more autonomic. And now it is like a metronome, which means now there's no variance between those heartbeats, right? And so that would be a much lower heart rate variability because there's a very small number measured in milliseconds of a variance between my heart rate. 00;54;46;27 - 00;55;26;17 So what that tells us is if your if your heart rate variability is ten, it's a really low number relative to you. You're in an already more sympathetic nervous system. Is your fight or flight side nervous system. You're in a more sympathetic, more fight or flight and state. So now when that person says something to you, when you're in the street or now when when I'm trying to deliver my presentation, someone asked me a question or says something that annoyed me or makes me think I'm doing a bad job, like it's that much harder now for me to regulate myself and to keep my thoughts clear, to be my best self when I'm presenting. 00;55;26;19 - 00;55;51;13 There's also I know that alcohol negatively affects my sleep. And so when you say it negatively affected sleep and you say also, well, what one single bad night of sleep, you see a change in the frontal lobes, which is where we have our willpower, our control, it's now it's even harder to regulate because I'm more likely to snap. 00;55;51;15 - 00;56;21;25 Not only that, if you have a bad night's sleep, there's really interesting research on all stocks. I realize I go on here. I have a different danger is where I get really excited about all the just how all this relates in the human body, specifically REM sleep. When you're dreaming. If you if you have a poor night of sleep, poor REM sleep because of the alcohol that I've had, when you have poor sleep in poor REM sleep, specifically REM sleep is where we consolidate. 00;56;21;27 - 00;56;46;26 It's where we manage. I'll say you large emotions from the day before. So if you have something big heavy today, right. And then you get a bunch of REM sleep the next day, your recollection of that isn't quite as heavy. Not to say that you can sleep your way through. I'm not obviously not oversimplifying here, but it's not quite as heavy. 00;56;46;29 - 00;57;11;09 Whereas if you have poor REM sleep, then you remember it as a heavier moment. And so I'll give an example here just how they do this in research and know this is they show a bunch of alarming images to people and I let them go to sleep. And then one group that they're monitoring their sleep, one group they like to sleep in the night, the other group, every time they start approaching REM sleep, they disturb them just enough to not wake them up, but to stop them from going into REM sleep. 00;57;11;09 - 00;57;33;28 And the next morning they ask them to recall the really alarming images that they saw on paper. And the group without the REM sleep will rate them as significantly more alarming or upsetting images because this is basically for the layman. Sorry, it's just because you're not resting, you're completely rested. Your brain is healing itself when you're sleeping and rested. 00;57;34;01 - 00;57;52;07 So my point is now you're carrying and more emotional baggage. You have decreased willpower and you're already in a more sympathetic state because you had some drinks the night before, but you're trying to show up as your best self or that job interview for that, like whatever it may be. And so again, this where I say without judgment and then don't ever drink if you want to drink. 00;57;52;07 - 00;58;07;13 I'm not saying that. I'm saying be intentional with your choices when you do, because if you said this is your big goal, this is the most important thing to you. It's not hard to have stood in line from night before so that you give yourself a fighting chance to go intentionally chill out the way you want to show up. 00;58;07;13 - 00;58;34;03 And the thing that you've said is important that next day and you can plan for it again, not to give you the deceiving contingency. Right. Say, you know what, I'm going to go do this. And because I'm going to do that, I'm going to prepare for that by overstocking the end state to you know what I mean? But yeah, it allows you to like you're saying now you have information you can prepare yourself for what's coming with the choices that you make. 00;58;34;05 - 00;58;54;22 That's right. And so what I mean, I know I've you know, I tend to chase rabbits down the halls and I apologize for that. And hopefully if people are still listening, they don't mind. But what I would say, like if we wrap that all up, we've got this model of human performance and this is what's going to tie up all the rest of the episodes is the actual strategy more of the information on. 00;58;54;22 - 00;59;15;21 So how do you improve your regulation? How do you improve your awareness? How do you improve your sleep? How do you improve your nutrition and how do you that's what the premise of the next episode is with different experts in those areas, right? And it's just arming you with the information. But if you heard one thing today, it's to say get clear on what your goal is for the next step. 00;59;15;23 - 00;59;31;22 Right at the beginning, I said I never had a five or ten year goal, but I always had like a clear short term goal. I wasn't just flow like I always knew what I wanted to do really well in that moment. I just did have a ten year path mapped out, right? Clear on your goal was like the next immediate step. 00;59;31;22 - 00;59;51;22 I know what you're trying to do, right? If you're in transition in life, sit down, Take a moment to reflect and think about what that thing you want to do is. And now it becomes easier to say what skills and abilities do I need to achieve that goal? What else? Physically, emotionally, mentally? What skills and abilities do I need to get good at that goal? 00;59;51;24 - 01;00;10;07 And what's a program I can go to consistently engage in that will grow those skills and abilities? And then what can I learn about my functional state and how to recover optimally? So I'm putting in all this effort to chase these skills and abilities relative to the goal. Give myself a fighting chance to show up in the moment matters. 01;00;10;09 - 01;00;31;28 So when that job interview arises, or when the NFL combine shifts or whatever it is, I'm showing up as my best version of myself because I knew how to regulate. I knew how to sleep, I knew how to fuel, and I made intentional choices. To do that is living a life with intentionality. As soon as you live life with intentionality, it becomes so much easier to make those decisions. 01;00;31;28 - 01;00;57;01 I said, It's not hard to say I'll go soda online tonight or I'm going to go to bed early tonight. Or you know what I mean? I do. And and so if anyone heard anything and so I hope that's what they took away was some real world tangible examples. But getting at this article, Grow your skills and abilities are able to tackle and give yourself a fighting shot when the moment arises by recovering the best you can and prioritizing those things. 01;00;57;03 - 01;01;14;29 Not exiled Stefan and I will say this because this is the other factor that because there's an end stage. So when you're doing all that stuff, you're going to grow, you're going to change, you're going to evolve. So you have to reassess. So before we before we close out, you know, this is kind of the commitment versus the attachment, right? 01;01;14;29 - 01;01;30;10 It's like, oh, I got to sell the program, took a lot of prep, took a lot out of me to be able to approach Stefan to help me with a program. Six months later, I'm good with the program. I'm conditions, I'm complacent, I'm good. I'm not the case, right? Not the case at all. It's such a good point. 01;01;30;12 - 01;01;57;27 You know, it's funny, when I was teaching those courses, when I was in the stage, my career was pretty much exclusively. I was doing this work with the population. I used to, I guess all that because I'm so many that had their routine. And I'd say a lot of individuals in that space do really well with routine and so this is how I do like this is at 6 a.m., like this is my VP, this is the program. 01;01;57;27 - 01;02;20;17 And you get these guys who fell into like the powerlifting camp, and then you got the guys that grew flew into like the CrossFit athlete type camp and then you got the guys and there was this is endurance athletes. Like you'd get in. And for a lot of people that was if they were allowed to choose a lot of people there was just whatever team leader was. 01;02;20;17 - 01;02;43;06 So their team leader, an endurance guy, guess what we're doing? We're running a team. Here's a Prospect guy, guess what we're doing and CrossFit. But I would talk to them. I'd say we are an organism that is made to adapt and you need a stimulus to adapt. But once you've adapted to that stimulus, you need a new stimulus if you want to keep growing. 01;02;43;08 - 01;03;08;23 And so I'd say like, I feel like I've done basically the same program for like the last ten years of their career and hands go up and I'm like, they would ask me like, so what is exhausting? Like, can you do more cross shooting, more power lifting? Like it was like, this almost is an account. I'm like, honestly, what I think the dude who's been cross-breeding for a while could stand the powder lift and to do the power lifting for a while to stand to do some CrossFit right. 01;03;08;25 - 01;03;30;15 It's like it's about identifying a different stimulus and so you're spot on. You get on the program, you apply a stimulus, you adapt. Six months later, they'll go, I'm good. You go, I need to take the next step. What is the next step or what is the next stimulus and what is the next adaptation? I'm seeing that's what continued growth is. 01;03;30;16 - 01;03;58;16 That's what a growth mindset is. That's what continuous improvement is. And it's taking step by step. So you got to reassess and you go through the process again. So now what's my goal now? What skills and abilities do I need to improve? And then how do I continue to show up, recovered and rested and keep growing? And the thing is, and this is what I tell my own kids is because my my son is ten and I don't know if this is just hammers, this is every ten year old, but he likes to think he's good at everything. 01;03;58;18 - 01;04;27;24 And I got to sometimes while being his loving father, check him a little bit and then he'll, you know, start getting a little bit of competency with something and then not want to practice it anymore. And I'll say the son, you know, you know, the brown hair on James is you have you know, Connor McDavid is. Yeah. Do you think Connor McDavid still practices hockey, Undeniably the best hockey player in the NHL right now and he still practices. 01;04;27;26 - 01;04;49;17 Yeah LeBron James undeniably the best basketball player right now. Now come from a different generation So still say Jordan was better but LeBron James undeniably the best basketball player in Does he still practice? Yeah. So it makes you think after six months you're done, you know. And so I completely agree with you, Chris. I guess such a good point is you got it. 01;04;49;19 - 01;05;12;04 You got to view this model I've described and we actually we have this model physically drawn. And the one thing I would say is it is a feedback loop and the arrows come back in and it is circular in nature. This is not a linear path. This is not a line from A to B, and it's over. It is circular in nature because you got to reassess and you got to continue on. 01;05;12;04 - 01;05;35;27 And I think that's a really, really good point at it. Well, good. Yeah, because I'm just thinking about the planning and oftentimes because I learned from Anthony. Yeah, not the greatest, the greatest at anything. Don't really brag about recovery as part of their plan. And you just said it. So I'm learning from you. I'm like, Well, now you've got me to grow and I'm changing and I'm evolving. 01;05;35;27 - 01;05;53;20 And I got to remember to plan for that in my plan. Because you said with the plan, I got a plan for that. Well, I'm going to hit this goal. I'm going to hit now. I got to understand, have to understand where I am then, which is the assessment that you do those three elements. And sometimes you talk about hope early on. 01;05;53;23 - 01;06;08;04 And one other thing, all that in there sometimes, it's just having a belief that something will be changed. People just need to hear that. That's why I like to start and I called it a sleep as a skill and I can get better. So there's a lot of people that man, it is what it is. That's how I sleep. 01;06;08;06 - 01;06;34;28 And unless I change things chemically, like take a sleeping pill or something, that is not going to be different. Sleep and natural sleep is a skill that can be improved. Right. And and that's what we call metacognitive beliefs. So metacognition is thinking about thoughts like when you think about your thoughts, that's metacognition. And so metacognitive beliefs are the beliefs you have toward like the thoughts that you have and the way you think about things. 01;06;35;00 - 01;07;03;02 And those have very strong impact on your behaviors, the things you do and and physiologically even like impacts to your body either positively or negatively. That's a neutral statement. Then a metacognitive at least can lead us down a negative path or on the path. But just having the belief system that where I just heard someone say sleep is something I can get better at. 01;07;03;05 - 01;07;20;03 Flow State is one I'm sure one of the talks we'll get into in future about Flow State is that's a whole other hour. We could talk about Flow state but that's I won't go down there, but Flow State is an amazing flow state is your optimal state of mind like optimal state of consciousness. It's in the zone, right? 01;07;20;05 - 01;07;44;00 It's autopilot, which means you do it for the joy of itself. It just feels good. It's those moments when time works. If you think those moments that there is an appropriate degree of challenge relative to your skill, there, maybe some risk involved and like time warps and you get hyper focused and just super dialed and you feel amazing after that flow. 01;07;44;00 - 01;08;07;17 State We just did research with Hofstra University on how to get more flow state into the workplace because it's often thought of as existing in tactical environments and in pro athletes. And people don't think of it as like where they can get into flow state. If I'm a graphic designer, you can. There's flow state research on like freestyle rap and jazz musicians like a flow studio and anything. 01;08;07;20 - 01;08;29;15 But what we learned was that by providing education on flow state to people, they showed up more frequently for the meaning. Metacognitive beliefs around flow led to more flow. And once you believe that this is a thing and it's value more and I can intentionally chase it, yes, what happens that shows up a lot more sleep is the same way. 01;08;29;19 - 01;08;50;04 Once I believe that is that thing that I can intentionally improve. Yes. What I start doing, improving my sleep. So that goes to the whole. But you got to have a belief in what you're doing happen today. And I we got to get a wrap. But happened today. I had the conversation. Friend of mine, same friend of mine talking about attachment, commitment. 01;08;50;06 - 01;09;17;02 You know, within the past couple weeks, we're talking about things we're mutually invested in. He showed up with things that got me stoked. And I'm like, I was just thinking about that. And then the next day he showed up and it reciprocated itself. And I'm like this, this premonition, things getting weird and we're aligned and I'm like, flow state because we're getting into it and it's it's feeding off of each other's manifesting itself, whatever, everything you just said. 01;09;17;02 - 01;09;48;06 So I don't need to repeat it because you said it. And you're right. And all of these activities go towards a better self when you actually recognize to the value of taking care of yourself in these ways, you will feel different. And some of those things are going to result in realizing naming something matters. Because now that instinctive intuitiveness that you have of saying, I feel like that, but well, now you know, so now you can, you can capitalize on, embrace it, use it and just be consistent with it. 01;09;48;06 - 01;10;10;12 But I digress. So you already saw the parting thought. You've already said if anything, anybody's got taking anything away from it. So I won't go back to that now that contacting you anyways to do that. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I love hearing from people. I'm always willing to engage people because the one thing that remains absolutely true to my calling and true to wanting to be a coach is helping people write. 01;10;10;12 - 01;10;35;22 I know people I'm not on social media other than LinkedIn and I'm not on there very active. I'm a bit like Anthony, I'm a bit of a hobbit. We will go down the whole my beliefs on social media real world right now but that's what you got me is actually still fashion email which I'm happy to provide here So it's S Underwood first initial last name new and rw0d at team X. 01;10;35;22 - 01;10;55;24 Those like a sports team t am eEXOS's eEXOS Eskom. Somebody gives me an email so they heard this. You know this episode I got a question, I promise a response. It might not be immediate, but I promise a response. Got it. And thank you so much and I'll, I'll include it in the podcast description as well. So, Stefan, thank you so much. 01;10;55;24 - 01;11;17;04 Thanks for taking some time. I know you're busy, but and you could have certainly been doing something else, but I'm glad you spent the last hour and a half ish with me doing this. I'm stoked to have been here and thank you for what you're doing with this podcast and the community. And I think this is this is wonderful and I don't want to be anywhere else right now, so I'm glad we had this conversation. 01;11;17;04 - 01;12;20;24 I look forward to hearing members from Exelis on experts in different areas, sharing over the next the next few steps as well. Yeah, well, we're bringing you back because I think Anthony now we're talking about getting the two of you together and we'll chop it up. So again, I appreciate you so much and appreciate it. Chris Yeah, have a great Western week and everybody else keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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EXOS: History and Heritage with Anthony Hobgood 1:09:14

2 years1:09:14

1:09:14

EXOS is the global leader in human performance and in this episode, we kick off the EXOS series to highlight Anthony Hobgood. As the Senior Director of Performance, Anthony tells us about his humble beginnings and how his early life influences played a significant part in carrying with him his purpose having experienced the many things he helps treat as an EXOS leader and coach. One who dedicates his craft to healing others, Anthony explains the foundation of how EXOS came to be, the programs offered, and what it takes to earn results; a brief summary of the EXOS mission as they commit to serving communities, companies, and our military. Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - ahobgood@teamexos.com - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ --------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;29;04 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized sessions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this first episode of our EXOS series, I'm joined by our guest, Anthony Hobgood, senior director of performance at EXOS. 00;00;29;12 - 00;00;49;04 In this episode, we kick off the series to highlight Anthony, who tells us about his humble beginnings and how his early life influences played a significant part in carrying with him his purpose as an EXOS leader and coach, one who dedicates his craft to healing others. Anthony explains the foundation of how EXOS came to be, the programs offered and what it takes to earn results. 00;00;49;07 - 00;01;12;05 Which is a brief summary of the EXOS mission as they commit to serving communities, companies and our military. Anthony's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. What's going on, Anthony? Good morning, Chris. How you doing? I'm doing all right, thanks. 00;01;12;07 - 00;01;35;07 A little trouble getting in today, did you? Yeah. The three mile bridge coming to work. I got stuck in traffic for a half hour, which was a great way to kick off your Monday morning. But actually, Tuesday morning, Monday, it was like a monday. What did you do over the weekend? My son had a baseball tournament, so I coached a nine year baseball tournament in Fort Walton Beach, Florida. 00;01;35;10 - 00;01;59;16 The weather was pristine and perfect. Monday, I cooked out with some friends of ours and built a homemade slip and slide that was four times larger than what you could buy. So cooking ribs and a barrel cooker while your kids run on a 40 yard long slip and slide. That's it was a good day and is a good day. 00;01;59;18 - 00;02;19;13 The one we had when I was younger was, what, ten foot? Yes. Usually ended up on the edge of the grass that transitioned into the sidewalk. Belly Burns. Exactly. Yeah. You can. You can go to a Home Depot and buy a big roll of of plastic that makes the best slip and slide in the world for about $15. 00;02;19;19 - 00;02;43;03 So it's a great time. It is a great time. Nice. How about you? What was your day yesterday? Yeah, it was great. Thanks for asking. And it was, you know, of course, Memorial Day. And so we do. Well, I do. Family will follow up later, but from my house to the Presidio National Cemetery is just over 26 ish miles, just enough to call it a marathon. 00;02;43;06 - 00;03;05;03 And so I yesterday rucked, learned I got baby feet. So footwear is key but but in on the route passed by two cemeteries go Golden Gate Cemetery and then landed at National Presidio National Cemetery which is nice because it's reflection walk and you know just good opportunity to walk through the community and see where we are at the society. 00;03;05;03 - 00;03;37;03 So that's that's the idea. Yeah. Good. It was good. Awesome. So today we are talking about the first of our seven episodes Anthony is going to cover expose the organization, how he became a part of it and what the contributions of him at an early age bring it up to his dedication to the field in which he's working and we'll start to hammer out some details that'll just give us some teasers on on what the company's about and and the services that they provide and how it helps our community and others. 00;03;37;05 - 00;04;00;05 So, Anthony, if you wouldn't mind just and we talked about it, you can start where you want. Well currently I live in Pensacola, Florida, and our facility access facilities in Gulf Breeze, Florida. My current position now, I'm the senior director of performance for XO Sports Division. Essentially manage the teams and the service we deliver across our our sports training sites. 00;04;00;08 - 00;04;23;21 I've been at this location now, actually, I think going on 16 years I've been here. We opened up this location in 2007, so I'm basically then I'm a coach, so I've had my I kind of had my head under the hood for the last six years at this location, coaching, training, athletes, working primarily, working a lot of the military, which I will get into a little bit later. 00;04;23;21 - 00;04;46;24 But yeah, I've been here that I've been here a long time been it's been a tremendous, tremendous last six years being here. But yeah, prior to coming here, I grew up in a little small town in Mississippi called Picayune, Mississippi. It's a little town on the Louisiana Mississippi border, just probably 40 miles, 45 miles outside of New Orleans. 00;04;46;27 - 00;05;08;13 I grew up there in a little small community, in a little country town. And it's interesting, I was reflecting on this this past weekend. You know, my parents didn't let me play any sports until I was ten years old. And when I started playing sports at ten, it changed my life like I was I was really good at it, just naturally play baseball. 00;05;08;19 - 00;05;36;29 Started out playing soccer, but started playing the sports. And that led to going in and playing football in college. So I was playing football at Ole Miss from 2002 to 2006, and that whole journey was just as is another long story that was very, very life changing for me. I think about it quite often and just how all the pieces fell together and how my journey from high school through college and how I even ended up here. 00;05;37;02 - 00;06;04;15 But I got into this field because I was an athlete and fell in love with the strength conditioning piece and got my degree in exercise science. And and that's that's essentially the, you know, the catalyst for how I stepped into the human performance field most students do through athletics. And then once we started work on the military, I realized that working with tactical population was really the the gold standard of my field. 00;06;04;15 - 00;06;38;18 So. So yeah, that's, that's the big rocks of my of my background. Got it. So small town sports that's a big deal. I mean how seriously was was did the community look at sports pretty seriously and think about think of a little town where on Friday night everybody's at the football game you know and and then growing up in little community that I grew up in, I was around you know, the street I grew up on was named after my last name I grew up on at first when I was a kid was a dirt road. 00;06;38;20 - 00;07;08;23 It was called I think my address was Route six, Box 59. That was my address. It was a route under coach. And then as I got older, it was changed to Hobgood Lane. That's because my family owned the land that was there. And so I grew up around all my cousins and I mean, imagine waking up in the summertime as a kid and you've got about four or five cousins your age and acres of woods to explore and bikes to ride, and I mean trails to riding your bike. 00;07;08;23 - 00;07;46;03 And it was just that was how it was. And then when I started playing baseball, I wasn't very good initially, but I was just a big athletic kid. And then I started seeing a lot of success really quick. And so it just expanded my network tremendously. So I went from not really having many friends outside of my family to it just exploded my network of people that I knew in my town and friends and in my experience, as you know, when I was 12 years old, we played we almost made it to the Little League World Series and we import Williamsport, Pennsylvania. 00;07;46;03 - 00;08;08;13 Like, really, we can really close to make it to Williamsport. But what was interesting was when I we are the town, the city we represented, our team won the state championship in Mississippi. So we represented the state of Mississippi in the Little League regionals down in St Petersburg, Florida. And the city flew us down there on an airplane. 00;08;08;16 - 00;08;28;27 Well, my dad and I got on the airplane and it was both our first time ever on an airplane. My dad had never been on an airplane. I was 12 years old. I had never been on an airplane. And so so yeah, that's we flew there and did that. And then and then since I was, you know, I was I was one of those kids that was early bloomer, right? 00;08;28;27 - 00;08;47;22 So I was really big as a as a young kid. I mean, shoot, I was some in some cases, as you know, 13, 14 years old, I was larger than the empire that was umpiring the game. And so everybody was always on the ball. Don't you play football? You know, you should play football. You play football. And so in eighth grade I was like, okay, well, I'm going to try this football thing out. 00;08;47;23 - 00;09;13;12 And I did that. And and that's when I started playing football. And that also then expanded my, my again, my network of people that I knew even greater. But what really started changing for me was two things. One, I met a guy who ended up becoming my brother in law that married my sister, who really became a mentor to me when I was in high school. 00;09;13;14 - 00;09;35;28 And then the combination of him and getting recruited to go to college. So I'd never wasn't even thinking of college, wasn't even my radar and I got an invite to go to a visit to the University of Southern Mississippi, and it's the first time I'd ever set foot on a college campus. And so I started getting recruited for college football. 00;09;35;28 - 00;09;58;21 And then I started thinking, Oh, man, I want I want a part of this. I want to be you know, I want I want to do this. And so football was really my catalyst for start to start creating an interest in going to college, you know, without going too deep. Both of my parents dropped out of high school when they were teenagers and got married, and my dad worked hard, manual labor jobs my whole life. 00;09;58;21 - 00;10;15;20 My mom, you know, when I was really small, she did everything from job, a school bus to she was a teacher's aide, and then she cleaned houses for a living when I was a kid. And my dad worked manual labor jobs. And it wasn't even my college wasn't even on our radar. It just wasn't something talked about in my house. 00;10;15;22 - 00;10;43;15 Yeah. And recruited to put, you know, being recruited to go to college is the first time that that actually opened a whole world to me that I would that I started to explore and that that absolutely changed my life. Got it that that's that's that's an interesting transition baseball to football of course the influence however they were looking at you and it's not uncommon I guess so you're pretty used to it. 00;10;43;18 - 00;11;04;17 These things that we indicate sometimes is or uses indicators to point us in a different trajectory. It's amazing how it turns out. On considering things that you never thought that you were able to do. I mean, going not only in a different sport, but then expanding and going to college, that that as a result of that stuff. Yeah. 00;11;04;19 - 00;11;27;20 I mean, talk about life skills development, looking at things. That's good. That's good that you and your family were open, of course, because where you are now, what was happening is my what was a time when my mom, who was my brother, my brother in law now went out. You know, he played college baseball and he he grew up in New Orleans and he grew up in a big city. 00;11;27;20 - 00;11;46;15 And he had been he had been around the travel song and he sees this young kid who had very little life experience outside of a small town. And he started speaking things into my life, basically saying, hey, man, you could you got a lot of potential. You should you know, you should go to college, you should go play sports in college. 00;11;46;15 - 00;12;15;13 You should, you know, And he really was an encourager to me to step out and really painted a picture for me of of, you know, some things I could have accomplished. And long story short, going into my senior year of high school, I was being recruited by LSU, Southern Miss and University of Mississippi, Ole Miss. And I went to a I went to a football camp that that was at LSU, that was put on by Nick Saban. 00;12;15;16 - 00;12;37;07 And at that camp, I it was really kind of like a semi camp slash recruiting visit. I tore my ACL at the camp and make a long story short, I had to sit out my entire senior year of high school football. I was back in rehab and was back, you know, for baseball that season. And we had a great year. 00;12;37;07 - 00;13;00;13 We won the state championship for the only time in history, in school. History was great, but my all the recruiting to the big schools stopped because I tore my ACL and I wasn't able to I didn't even play my senior year. So I ended up signing a junior college football scholarship and a lot of the smaller schools, you know, were still offering me. 00;13;00;15 - 00;13;18;27 Well, I wanted I had kind of set my mind on playing in the SCC. Well, I wanted to go to Ole Miss and my coach who was recruited me, called me and said, Hey, we would love to have you here, but we can't give you a football scholarship. You didn't even play your senior year. So if you find a way to get here, we'd love to have you on the team. 00;13;18;27 - 00;13;42;24 But you have to you have to walk on. And I'm like, Well, I can't do that. Long story short, man, I ended up getting an academic scholarship that paid for all of my college, and I showed up to Ole Miss. I passed up a JUCO scholarship and some other opportunities and I went to Ole Miss as an invited walk on on an academic scholarship. 00;13;42;27 - 00;14;09;18 And just to give you a picture of what that was like, imagine you are part of the team, okay? You are training, you're practicing, you are, you're in the grind as a team. But then on the team, like after workouts, when players are getting like post-workout, you know, supplements, you can't have it. When the team has like a team meal after practice, you're not allowed to participate or to partake in it. 00;14;09;21 - 00;14;31;01 And so I had this like chip on my shoulder of I need to earn every single thing that I get because they're not going to give me anything. So I went from showing up and not allowed to participate in some of the benefits that the team was getting. Even though I was on a team and practicing contributed at a high level. 00;14;31;01 - 00;14;55;18 I went from that to to to being to lettering, to actually play in and, and, you know, being on the team. And so anyway, that's that was a whole that was a life experience journey for me of truly realizing that to be on that field on Saturday was more a 100% merit based system that you had to earn. 00;14;55;21 - 00;15;17;27 And not just earn, but you had to like you were in the negative, like you were in the negative starting out and you had to go get every opportunity. You had to go take advantage of every opportunity that you have to be able to make it. And and fortunately, I did. So that was that was quite a, I would call a forging moment of my life going through all of that. 00;15;17;29 - 00;15;47;18 Yeah. I mean, everything everything that you're saying has me swirling around life lessons, mentorship, encouragement. Yeah, accountability. You know, I mean, the last part itself, and we'll get into it more. I'm hoping. I'm sure we're appreciating injuries or things that prevent you from hitting your potential in this case because of where you are and what you do. I want to be able to plant the seed right now. 00;15;47;18 - 00;16;09;08 And as you tell it, as we talk more, is how does that how does all that experience bring now a perspective into the value that you're you're providing to your clients or to customers? I mean, just just the whole idea of saying you're in a bad situation, you're in a situation bad is relative. You're in a situation right now that you don't want to be in in order to get out of it. 00;16;09;08 - 00;16;33;01 We're going to we're going to approach it, but you're going to have to work for it. I'm going to give you the give you the answers. You're going to have to study and get the results. I would say I mean, I could I could go. There's even more after that. I could get into it. But I would say if I were to reflect on the biggest thing that I've learned in my life is that think about a human being's life. 00;16;33;01 - 00;16;51;17 If you were to track their life the way that you see a stock, think about a stock market graph, right? So you see a graph where the line is increasing, then it drops and then it increases and it drops and it increases and it drops and increasing it drops. But then the overall slope of that graph is this gradual increase. 00;16;51;20 - 00;17;18;20 I think our lives are that same way where when I look back on what I would consider very challenging and hard circumstances in my life, those are the times where I grew the most don't grow when things are easy, you grow when things are hard. So I began to just embrace the hard things, like if something is hard, it's the opportunity to get better as opportunities to grow. 00;17;18;23 - 00;17;49;26 If things were always easy, I would, I wouldn't. I wouldn't learn anything. It would just stagnate, you know, I'd become stagnant if not go backwards. So every hard thing I see in my past was a very, very important period in my life that made me who I am today. So therefore, if I'm going through something challenging right now, I'll look back on that this years from now and realize that that was that was beneficial for my growth. 00;17;49;29 - 00;18;15;04 Was there a sense of ownership as far as paying it forward when it comes to that of those that put helped you get into that situation where it's also included in that reflective moment of how are you going to push through the hardships? Yeah, I mean, is there like a sense of ownership in myself or you said, Yeah, and yourself, it's, it's somebody gave me the chance to, to do the things that I'm doing now. 00;18;15;05 - 00;18;51;29 Without that, I have to push through it because I owe it to those who supported me along the way. Yeah, yeah. 100%. I def You definitely do. I mean, you, you're, you're going to get opportunities in your life. Okay. When I say opportunities, an opportunity may be as something as simple as you meeting somebody in the office for the first time and the way that you interact with them, like every day is every day and how you conduct yourself is an opportunity for you to expand yourself as a person to become better and it's essentially, what are you going to do with those opportunities? 00;18;51;29 - 00;19;17;05 Are you going to take it back? Are you going to take those opportunities for granted, or are you going to approach life with a sense of gratitude and realize that man, that, you know, I'm thankful for being here, I'm thankful for the app and I'm thankful for my employer. I'm thankful for the people around me. And I use this opportunity to improve myself and improve those around me like a constant state of growth. 00;19;17;07 - 00;19;35;21 And so so yeah, I definitely think there's an obligation there. And I think that is I think that obligation is founded in the concept of gratitude. You know, like I'm grateful to be here, therefore I'm going to take advantage of this opportunity and not take it for granted if that made any sense at all. But that's my mindset now. 00;19;35;21 - 00;20;00;13 Immediately I wrote it down. If I ever wanted a soundbite, that was it. Yeah. I mean, that's a it's a very powerful statement. How, how, how people look at the things that are giving them. It's offering them everything, you know, relatively good or bad matters less, but all of it is now factor that's based off of the foundation that somebody laid out for you to be where you are. 00;20;00;16 - 00;20;27;17 So gratitude is the is the key for sure in this. And we we we have said this many times. Well you know, as we'll get into a little later, you know, the founder of our company is, you know, Mark Verstegen, right. Mark Verstegen founded EXOS back in 1999. And as when I came into this company, I was giving lots and lots of opportunities like I had. 00;20;27;21 - 00;20;49;00 We had special operations groups inside the military that were inviting us in and to come in and work with them. And the person that they got was me. And there's a, there's a tendency, because of your own selfish human pride, to think that, Oh, I'm getting invited here because of me and because I'm good at what I do. 00;20;49;02 - 00;21;07;24 But the reality is, no, you're not getting out of there because of me. I'm getting invited there because of the the the work that was laid before me by great people like Mark statement, like I'm coming there for the name of my shirt, not because of Nate, not because of who I am, because of Mark, because of that was because of the people who came before me. 00;21;07;24 - 00;21;32;16 Therefore, I have to through two things. Number one, I have a I better be grateful for that because if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be asked to come here. Let's get a clear to I have an opportunity. I have an obligation to be good stewards, be a good steward of this opportunity, and and basically do a great job. 00;21;32;19 - 00;21;59;23 Right as much This is much bigger than me. And so I see a lot of people today who have tremendous privileges that that that they did not earn that is just there. But they don't have any sense of gratitude for what they have. They don't have the right perspective about it. They don't understand it. They take for granted that you can go to your waterfall, sit and turn it on, and clean drinking water just comes out. 00;21;59;25 - 00;22;25;23 They take for you, take for granted that I can go flip on my light switch and my light bulb comes on. I don't realize that what it takes for that to happen. Okay. And so anyway, I think a the right perspective leads to a healthy dose of gratitude, but also a healthy dose of ownership and responsibility to to be good. 00;22;25;25 - 00;22;51;00 Yes, to all of it. Okay. Well, that's that's a if anybody out there is not picking up what we're laying down there, this is this is the the attitude in the brand. And I can say that and I'm oversimplifying it, not doing it justice, but the relationship between individuals that are performing on behalf of others, in this case, you just got it. 00;22;51;02 - 00;23;15;18 So now let's talk about EXOS. So let's talk about the founder. Let's talk about the premise in which the organization was created, what it's serving, the growth that it's experienced, and then slide in there. Anthony, if you wouldn't mind, please. You know, so you're you're out of college and you start to consider what you're going to do next. 00;23;15;18 - 00;23;36;22 How did you land here? And kind of as best you can make it both a minor. Yes. So I'm at Ole Miss playing football. I had worked really hard and in the spring of 2005, I was going to my junior season and I was in line at the starting position as the full back on the football team was mine to lose. 00;23;36;24 - 00;23;58;01 I had paid a lot of dues to be in that position and in the spring training I had my first concussion and medically was not cleared to continue to play. And so I had worked really hard to, you know, I played I was I was playing, I was on special teams and was in the rotation. But I wasn't a starter that worked really hard to become a starter. 00;23;58;03 - 00;24;27;00 And then here it here what seems to be the rug getting pulled out from underneath me? I wasn't playing anymore. Well, my coaches wanted me to stick around the program and just like, help coach be like a student coach, like intern as a coach. Well, I didn't want any part of that, but I loved the training piece. So I started working in the in the weight room with the strength staff, and I finished out my time at Ole Miss, you know, as a volunteer and as an intern on the strength staff. 00;24;27;00 - 00;24;53;27 Well, I was seeing my coaches. We were opening up the weight room at 530 in the morning to train athletes. Well, then you're you'd be there at 6 p.m. at night training the baseball team and that lifestyle of you can't do anything other than just work. I didn't want that because personally I had a lot of ambition of having a family one day and I'm going to go to coach my son's baseball team. 00;24;53;27 - 00;25;28;24 If I had a son right, I wanted to be able to have a life outside of my work. I didn't want to just be one dimensional. And so long story short, my my Bama can ex professor at Ole Miss. His name was Dr. Chip Wade. He got the director of research position at a place called the Andrews Institute in Gulf Breeze, Florida, and he called me in his office one day and he said, Hey, I'm going to be going down to Gulf Breeze to run research at the Andrews Institute, which was an orthopedic surgery center for Dr. James Andrews, who's one of the most renowned orthopedic surgeons in the world. 00;25;28;26 - 00;25;53;19 And they're going to run a human performance facility at that campus. And they want to integrate human performance into the campus. And they're talking with this company out of Arizona called Athlete Performance. And it looks like athletes performance is going to come in and run the performance center at the Andrews Institute, and they are the leaders and tumor performance globally. 00;25;53;22 - 00;26;14;17 If you're an elite athlete and you want to go to private training facility athletes, performance is the place to go. Well, I had never heard of it and I said, man, I'd be. It sounds like a great opportunity to go and be a strength conditioning coach in the private sector. And oh, by the way, I get to go to grad school and they'll pay for it'd be like a G position. 00;26;14;20 - 00;26;34;11 I said, Let's do it. So I moved down to I moved down to Pensacola. I'm leaving out a lot of details here, but I moved down to Pensacola and was a grad assistant in the Bahamas in a research lab for the Andrews Institute. And I worked in the biomechanics research lab and went to the University of West Florida and got my master's degree. 00;26;34;11 - 00;26;51;14 And I did that at nighttime. Well, I wanted to get my foot in the door of the athlete's performance. And so I was I was as much as I could hang out with the staff and help and take the trash out if I see them cleaning out, grab a broom. And I just started volunteering with athletes performance because we were in the same space. 00;26;51;16 - 00;27;17;15 And anyway, I got an opportunity. They hired me as a part time coach because they, they, they sold a high school football speed training program over the summer. That was a hundred athletes coming in here to train and they let me come in and run it. And so that was where I cut my teeth with athletes performance. And then when I when I was I was part time and then I became full time when I graduated in oh nine. 00;27;17;18 - 00;27;52;16 And so but here's what I didn't realize, what I what I learned by coming here was I'd learned I'd learned about this company at the time. Athletes performance was a very small company, and it was it was founded by Mark Verstegen in 1999, and back in the nineties Mark Verstegen was at IMG and he left img to at the time was to create something that didn't exist and he wanted to create a training facility, not just a facility, but think about a training experience where an athlete had everything that they needed. 00;27;52;16 - 00;28;35;07 In one location. You had physical therapy, you had performance specialists, you had dietitians, you had massage therapists, you had all the different professionals in one location, but not just there, but they were there seamlessly integrated as a staff by their culture and also a methodology. So you walk in as an athlete and you have this multidisciplinary team surrounding you, all working together to help you reach your goals, whether it's recovering from an injury, whether it's preparing for an event or just training in the off season, you had a place that was like a sanctuary for pro athletes and he created that. 00;28;35;09 - 00;29;03;25 He took all the he took what we knew and human performance and basically packaged it into a system that became known as the access methodology, the access training system. And that system, rightly understood, could can be manipulated in an infinite number of ways to help anybody, whether you are, you know, an athlete or not an athlete, have a healthy lifestyle or prepare for any kind of training or event. 00;29;03;25 - 00;29;39;20 And so so yeah, he he started that company in 99 and built something very, very special that became a magnet to pro athletes globally which which was the catalyst for the military coming and saying, how can we take what you guys do and apply it to our world? Humble beginnings, it seems in that story, something a part of your life you've demonstrated through storytelling is gravitate towards that opportunity. 00;29;39;23 - 00;30;02;08 And you mentioned some of the things that you'll do just to be around those things, you know, clean in. And then I work a couple of years without getting really paid anything for it. Yeah, paid a lot of dues. Right. But what you earned, I mean, it's priceless. You know. But that's really true, though. Like, like I was I was I was earning number one. 00;30;02;08 - 00;30;29;21 I was learning because here's what I realized, Chris, is what we do. What I do for like, when I'm training an athlete, you know, I have a master's degree in extra science, I have my CSCS certification, but 99.9% of what I do, I learned from on the job training by doing it and by being mentored by the people and the education and the degrees and the certifications only give somebody a foundation. 00;30;29;21 - 00;30;54;03 It gives you an understanding of the human body and it gives you essentially you to, you know, how to speak the language, but you don't know how to do it. And so you have to basically become an apprentice and learn from others for a period of time before you can really, what I would say, do a great job at training somebody. 00;30;54;05 - 00;31;19;10 Yep. Sounds like there's continuity between that and the approach. So what is what is so Exos interesting name. What does it stand for itself? Well, prior to 2014, our company's name was Athlete Performance and Mark had had wrote a book called Core Performance, and we actually had athletes perform it. He had two brands. It was kind of two brands at the time. 00;31;19;11 - 00;31;41;10 You had athletes performance that was geared more toward athlete facing populations and you had core performance that was geared more toward general population. And we actually we actually opened up our core performance training facilities in California that was geared more toward Gen POC. Well, it was there was it was kind of confusing, you know, having two brands. But in the same company. 00;31;41;12 - 00;32;05;10 And then when we were going to the table to to expand our reach and influence and working with different corporations like Google, for example, or the military, when you're when you're talking to a Google or the military, the first response is, well, we're not athletes. You know, you see athletes performance, but we have a different population with different job and a different demand. 00;32;05;10 - 00;32;43;16 So how was that resonate? It didn't resonate very well. And then those different non-athletic worlds. So in 2014, as we began to expand our impact into military and and into serving employees and big corporations, we went through a complete rebranding and we went away from the athletes performance and the core performance brand to a brand called EXOS. The name EXOS comes from the word EXOSphere, which is the outer level of the worlds of the Earth's atmosphere. 00;32;43;18 - 00;33;11;27 So from just a figurative standpoint, it it's it stands for the highest level on earth, really. If you look at the if you look at the the X s, the x is broken into four little pieces. If you look at the logo. And those four pieces represents our four pillars of our of our of our methodology, which is mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery. 00;33;11;29 - 00;33;44;12 So what we if you think about our our our our methodology from high level, if we're working with military general population employees for organizations or elite athletes, if you want to optimize your performance, if you want to have sustainability long term, you need to be firing on all four of those cylinders. Mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery. Okay? If you look at the oh for the in the name excess, you'll notice is broken into two parts. 00;33;44;14 - 00;34;15;23 Well, and part of our methodology, we have a concept we call the recovery cycle, which is work plus rest equals success. Another way of saying it is work plus rest equals adaptation. That is one of the core fundamental principles of our system is if you're seeking an adaptation, you have to have work, which is some type of stimulus paired with breast, which is your recovery in order for adaptation to occur. 00;34;15;25 - 00;34;38;21 All right. And if you think about that equation, why that's important is if you were to if you think about how, you know, example will commonly used as if you look at how calluses form on your hand. Okay. So if you were to rub your hand on concrete or sandpaper on your hand, right. You do it for a period of time with the rest your body is going to adapt and your skin is going to thicken. 00;34;38;21 - 00;35;02;05 And former callus will in order for the callus to form, what is more important, the stimulus or the rest? Well, the answer is both. Like you can't have one without the other. And so what, Chris, why that's important is what that means is, is as an athlete, personally, I only focused on my training. I thought that my training is where I make my improvements. 00;35;02;07 - 00;35;26;19 And I didn't make a I didn't put a priority on how I recovered. And so as a college athlete, I was training really hard, but I would stay up late at night and I wouldn't prioritize like how I took care of my body. And so if you have the proper mindset, you're going to value how you manage your recovery just as as as much as you value how you put a training stimulus on yourself. 00;35;26;22 - 00;35;57;02 And so, again, going back to to the to the logo, you ask me what does that mean That that is essentially like outer atmosphere of the earth. That's where the name excess comes from. And as you kind of peek into the actual logo itself, you'll see our four pillars built into the X, you'll see the recovery cycle built into the oath, and that concept of mindset, nutrition, movement, recovery and work stress, equal success really is at the core of our methodology and how we serve people. 00;35;57;04 - 00;36;27;00 That's awesome that the connectedness in itself, in the brand and how it brings together through the words and the imageries. I mean, it makes sense. And you're right, always a student. I'm learning, especially in the fitness area where people like me have been making attempts at trying to be physically fit for decades. It's always working hard. Nobody brags about how much rest you're giving your body or how much recovery options that you've planned for. 00;36;27;03 - 00;36;52;21 I mean, the good ones do, right? Right. So so in that transformation, I can't help but to bring up the reflective effort to go into the brain connectedness because talking about how how people become aware of what organizations do you know, a lot of us will put myself included. I'll put weight into like we talked about the imagery. 00;36;52;21 - 00;37;14;04 I'll look at the words, I'll look at the company name. I won't make the association. So then I dismiss it and move on. I'm gathering that in that and I'm oversimplifying it. That's part of where you your organization had realized that in order for us to be more effective, expand the reach and have people gravitate towards the offerings that we have. 00;37;14;06 - 00;37;35;16 We have to be able to symbolize that in the name, in the words to get the hook, if you will, to get them to realize what we're doing. And so in that evolution where you change the name, what does that done for the organization to help simplify that process of people becoming able to connect what your name is and what you do? 00;37;35;18 - 00;38;01;12 Yeah, I think I think if you look prior to that, that brand change, it was the name I guess cured a stigma with it, right? Well, first of all, I'll say this like if you want, if there's a back up of the reason that access is where it is today is because of the character of the values and the humility of Mark stigma. 00;38;01;14 - 00;38;22;13 When Mark started this company, he didn't name it for Steeg and performance. He made it athletes performance. And what that essentially means is we have an athlete centric approach to what we're doing. We're going to put the athlete in a center and we're going to ask this question what is best for the athlete? And that's not what's best for me, what's best for my image or my career. 00;38;22;13 - 00;38;52;07 But what's best for the athlete. You're putting the athlete in the center. And so that that values that value structure of of really elevating the individual that you're serving over yourself was the catalyst for our growth as a company. Because if it if it wasn't for that, our athletes performance would still be a tiny, small little company in Arizona where elite athletes were trained in what was stagnant. 00;38;52;07 - 00;39;11;20 It would still be their coaching every day. But because of the I'm going to I'm going to do I'm not going to start going to be about me. It's going to be about the individuals that were to serve us. That's allowed us to reach all the people that we've reached over the years. I mean, thousands and thousands, if not millions of people that we've impacted. 00;39;11;22 - 00;39;36;27 And then again, as you as you think about the the name and the brand, you know, the moment you see athletes performance, you automatically associate, you know, the stigma of a training for sport. And when you disconnect from that stigma and you look at it, do you know, you're not associated with that. The name EXOS now doesn't carry that. 00;39;36;27 - 00;40;01;04 Oh, it's just for an athlete like this. This is a this is a group of people that can help me, whether I am again, if I'm in the military or if I'm just looking for how to combat my sedentary lifestyle that my office job gives me. This is a brand and a system that can help me accomplish any of those things. 00;40;01;06 - 00;40;21;19 And it just doesn't it's not pigeonholed. I'm used to, you know, to 1 to 1 area, which is one of the reasons that we wanted to get away from that name in the first place. It makes sense. It was a nice, nice way of explaining it. I mean, it was clear and concise. And the thing is, is the reality is because I am one that didn't really understand the depth of those offerings. 00;40;21;25 - 00;40;52;28 So for everybody out there, EXOS is the primary fitness center management company for Oracle. And wherever there's a fitness center in our locations, there's EXOS. And if one were to go to our headquarters, you would see a very nice facility with an outstanding staff that until you actually have the conversation, you would just think it's fitness center because you're you're conditioned to just realize whatever a gym looks like and you're like, Oh, it's got stuff in there. 00;40;53;05 - 00;41;16;00 There's some people stand around, help in training, what have you. But I will advocate for this. If you're curious about what else can be offered to you and you know that you need something else other than just the physical component, you need to have a conversation and be curious with the staff members and could do this anywhere to kind of test what would Anthony's describing it, what EXOS is. 00;41;16;01 - 00;41;58;13 It's it's the holistic view that encompasses all the elements, the pillars, all the elements of what an individual needs to plan for. Because one if one of those is deficient, that's not going to get you to where you believe you want to be, where you can be your potential. So that's the element, which is what got us to sit here today and introduce this seven episode series of EXOS the depth of EXOS today we're just talking about the introduction and some at the very high level, but it's to set the foundation of the people that EXOS brings in which Anthony's talked about who he's developed to be, from where he started to where he is. 00;41;58;13 - 00;42;22;27 That's an element that's a good symbolic range of the type of individuals that you'll be working with when you talk about EXOS. Well, we'll get into that a little bit more detail now because I am curious and there's more to share. But just just to be clear, the the realization that everybody has to have on how we're how how you play a part in society is to understand where you need to be better. 00;42;23;00 - 00;42;59;01 And that comes with realizing how well rounded of a perspective you should have on the pillars, because they all play a part in each other. So now, now that we have a better understanding of the cultural component which traversed from an old way of of presenting the value athletic performance, focusing on like you call it, like a pigeonhole sort of to where now people just misunderstood that to be only specific to a demographic, a specific demographic that is moral, all encompassing of anybody. 00;42;59;03 - 00;43;30;16 What what organizations or what other demographics are you specializing in now with what you're offering? Well, you have at our at our training facilities, you'll see here you're going to see that we work with the spectrum of athletes from youth athletes, high school athletes, sports teams, college athletes, pro athletes of all sports. We also have extensive experience working with the military, which is really my favorite, my most favorite thing that we do. 00;43;30;18 - 00;43;53;00 And very thankfully, you know, a lot of the work that we did in the military, we have done military was originated out of our facility here in Florida. And so if you think about the broad reach of of access, every spectrum of athlete and in in even every spectrum of of military personnel. So there's a think about the life cycle of in the military. 00;43;53;02 - 00;44;14;28 If you're young in your career versus you're in the middle of your career, you're 20 years in, you know, we have solutions for both of those. You've been injured and you're trying to get back to the, you know, operational capacity. We have programs for that. That's that is our that's our our key program in Florida. We call it the Accelerated Return of Duty program. 00;44;15;00 - 00;44;41;20 And so that program is built around this concept that you have an injury that has that prevents you from doing your job. You come here and we take you to an immersive experience. That is a monologue that we help you get back to where you're able to go back and do your job. So there's that. But then there's also as you begin to transition out of the military, your goals change, right? 00;44;41;20 - 00;45;16;19 You're you're trying to stay fit for operational fitness. Well, then as you retire, you're not trying to maintain that level of operational readiness. You're just looking for I want to feel good. I'm going to wake up in the morning in my back, not hurt. I want to maintain a level of fitness for my health and longevity. And so then whether again, whether I'm early in my career, whether I am operational, whether I'm injured, trying to get back to operational status or retired and looking for health or longevity we have plans for all of those. 00;45;16;21 - 00;45;34;19 And then if you think about it, this and probably the same concept for somebody who's, you know, just general population, we're all at one point in time play sports or you have these different goals. But then at some point time training is really reduced down to I just want to be healthy and be able to function and live the life that I want to live. 00;45;34;22 - 00;45;59;00 And so EXOS is motto now is we help you get ready for the moments that matter most to you wherever you are. Right? And then if you if you look into the corporate setting, you, you know, you may not be training for a particular event or something that requires you to perform at your peak. However, you know, these days we do most of our work on computers. 00;45;59;00 - 00;46;26;06 And so you're sitting at a desk for 6 hours a day, you know, how do I get out of that position and and go and activate my body in a way that allows me to maintain a level of cardiovascular fitness, you know, muscular strength and movement in my body to where I can still thrive as a person and live the life that I want to live, even though I'm not I don't have any particular performance related goals in terms that relate to sport or my job. 00;46;26;08 - 00;46;52;11 And so again, I'm an athlete or I'm in the military or I am working as a as a employee for a corporation, I still, you know, wherever I'm at there, we we serve that whole spectrum of individual needs that's solid. I mean, that's I guess the question I would have then is how do you how do you plan for with the staff? 00;46;52;11 - 00;47;17;26 How does the staff learn the component of discovery? I'm going to say discovery, but you're asking questions and finding goals. I mean, there's got to be at some point, not only the hard skills that you have, bringing to the table, learning how to to work with bodies and then all of its functions, but how the conversations going with people that want to learn exactly what it is that people say and how it translates and what they mean. 00;47;17;29 - 00;47;42;06 Yeah. So if you really if you really zoom out and look at what it is that we do, we take the needs and the wants of people and we build game plans from that. And so you, you find out what somebody needs through a process of evaluations and that can be different depending upon where you are. But here at this, we're out we're at our performance training facility here. 00;47;42;09 - 00;48;06;21 When somebody shows up, we take them through an in-depth physical therapy and email to find out about injury history to to to have to move and and discover other dysfunctions in their movement. Do they have pain with all of that? Gives us gives us information about needs. Okay. We'll take them through a nutrition consultation to find out what their goals are. 00;48;06;21 - 00;48;26;25 From a nutrition standpoint, are you trying to maintain your body weight, lose body weight, increase body weight, change your body composition? What are your goals there? Well, that needs assessment for body comp or for nutrition standpoint drives the plan and game plan for how we support someone a nutritionally an improved form of performance standpoint. We have performance evals. 00;48;26;25 - 00;48;50;15 We take our people through. That usually takes the form of doing what's on top of force plates where we can look at how they how they generate and exhort force. And so we have a we have a performance evals, nutrition evals and physical therapy evals that gives us information about needs. Sometimes you don't even know the things that you need from there. 00;48;50;15 - 00;49;12;12 We do. We do a a consultation where we find out what somebody wants. And that's a that's essentially sitting down with somebody having a conversation seeking to understand what are their big picture goals and the short term goals, like what are you trying to accomplish while you're being here? And we take those that combination of needs and wants and we build a game plan that fits that. 00;49;12;15 - 00;49;39;16 Now, if you zoom out and say, well, how like that same concept, the Navy came to us many years ago, the Navy, and they said, Hey, we hired we have all these fitness instructors that train our sailors across the entire force. There's no integration or it's all just it's all siloed. And in terms of how we do it, can you guys help us build a training program for our sailors? 00;49;39;18 - 00;50;05;14 And we said, absolutely. So we went out to the Navy and they took us aboard their large ships. They took us aboard aircraft carriers into submarines, onto their actual gyms that they have. That's a military base. And they said, Can you build us a program that whether you were at a full working gym out on base, if you're on an aircraft carrier or in a submarine, then you can still do it. 00;50;05;16 - 00;50;25;09 And so we built a program for the Navy called the Navy's program, which stands for Naval Operational Fitness and Fueling series. And we built that. And if you look it up, you look up NAF, Naval Operational Fitness and PHENIX areas, you will see a program that 100% of that was built by EXOS. And how do we build that? 00;50;25;09 - 00;50;47;05 We had to go in and seek to understand what are the needs, what are the constraints, what's the environment, what are you guys asking for? Who's the problem, what population we're working with? And and so we built that program and I was part of the team that went out and ran education courses with all of their all of their fitness instructors for the Navy, for the for the Navy. 00;50;47;07 - 00;51;14;19 And we ran these education courses where they're with their teams going through our training methodology and actually diving into the actual training program self. And so that's just an example of seeking to understand it before you go build a game plan. The performance code we have is called Learn, design, deliver, refine. And so you learn about somebody. You design a game plan, you deliver the game plan, right? 00;51;14;19 - 00;51;33;28 And then you riff and then you refine the game plan. And it's a constant thing about a feedback loop, learning design to deliver, refine, learn, design, deliver, refine. You constantly are doing that with people that you're working with or organizations you're working with. The idea there is in fact the growth, the growth pattern, right, is as things evolve and change, you're constantly reassessing. 00;51;33;28 - 00;51;58;17 So I, I can see why it's successful. You're out there putting in front of everything that you're doing. The intent, if it's not the name, it's the people and the way people conduct themselves. It's the the manner in which the professionalism and the brand and the caring of the individuals paying it forward for the foundation that's been built, it's the continuity between an expectation and hope. 00;51;58;19 - 00;52;17;01 You know, an individual that is in, I'm sure you know, in front of you is there's hope. A lot of you know, for me it would be desperation. I'm like, I'm in a place right now I'm not familiar with and I'm I'm struggling to accept it because I'm limited in the things that I used to do. Well, I can't do as well now. 00;52;17;03 - 00;52;42;10 And I'm hoping that you can help me. So with that comes with the confidence in what you're doing individually as you represent the organization. But the approach I think, is it's an outstanding approach because it's incorporating the factors that not only makes sense, it gives us the confidence in trusting you to help reshape whatever it is that we're needing and wanting. 00;52;42;12 - 00;53;13;24 Yeah, I suppose we can leave it there because we don't want to give too much away for the next couple episodes, but that's been my head. What what else would you like to share that we haven't yet covered? So if you really think about our our work with this other military just really big picture of man probably back 2005, I believe there were some groups inside of the special operations community that that came to service and said, we want to seek to understand what you guys do and apply it to our world. 00;53;13;26 - 00;53;44;13 And so back when we opened this facility in 2009, we became kind of the hub where a lot of members of Special Operations community would come here for training. And we created a program that we called the ARD Program, which stands for Accelerated Return of Duty. And these military service centers would come here for an immersive experience where they'd get physical therapy, nutrition and training and Chris, the amount of lives that we were able to change was was remarkable. 00;53;44;15 - 00;54;03;17 One one key person that that came at that time was was Marcus Letrell. Right. So I was somebody had gave me the book Lone Survivor and I was reading it, actually read it like three days. And while I was actually reading the book, I walked in the lobby and I looked up and it was Marcus sitting in the lobby. 00;54;03;19 - 00;54;22;29 And he had shown up because he had heard about our program and he needed some help. And so he came in and we surrounded him like we do everybody else. And and he stayed here for months and we trained and rehabbed him and fed him and all of that. Well, it had such a profound impact on him when he was leave. 00;54;22;29 - 00;54;54;18 And he he wrote a check and he said, I want to pay for someone else to receive what I received. Well, at that time, we didn't really have we didn't have anything set up to receive a donation. And so that started this concept of, well, what if we could set something up to where we could receive donations? So we partnered with the Andrew's Institute Research and Education Foundation, which is an upstairs part of our building, which is a nonprofit arm of the Andrew's Institute. 00;54;54;18 - 00;55;23;24 Dr. Andrew's is his nonprofit, and we created a designated fund when we needed the Eagle fund, and we started raising money to pay for the training and the cost of this program for military service members. And Chris, we started out doing cookouts like in the facility. We built presentations and went to churches and gave a presentation on what we're trying to do and asking people to get behind and support it. 00;55;23;26 - 00;55;49;28 And we eventually secured a grant from the state of Florida, and the state of Florida actually pays money on a reoccurring basis every year to fund the Eagle Fund. And we take that money. And at this facility we have about 120 individuals that year from so com that come to our facility that we take care of and they average about a month to stay in debt to be in here. 00;55;49;28 - 00;56;19;28 So and then the last since we started the Eagle Fund we have we have service I think right at our over 2000 service military service membership. So just at this facility alone and that the relationships and the experiences that we've had through that have been remarkable. That was also the catalyst where the military says, Man, you guys, we want access at our place. 00;56;20;01 - 00;56;41;15 So that started us with some staffing contracts inside of so com a different units where we went in and then brought staff to be there just from the for those units that actually we actually started a we had a contract with so com when we were in education we ran these tactical performance mentorships which is where we teach human performance trainings. 00;56;41;18 - 00;57;03;23 The concepts that we do every day. We, we talked to the military and so in a in a span of, I believe about two years, we had 200 service members come through our facility that we taught education to. And I could keep going. I mean, we went very, very in-depth with how we've been able to interact and impact the tactical community. 00;57;03;23 - 00;57;29;16 And it's been an absolute incredible experience over the last 15 years. And and today, this morning, we had 13 service members show up this morning to come into the program. So we'll be busy, busy for the next month surrounding these individuals with training and nutrition, physical therapy, and all of them show up with a goal. The goal may be an yard and I want to get back to my job. 00;57;29;18 - 00;57;50;22 The goal may be I've been injured by my career and I'm about to retire and I want to have quality of life. So wherever they are and whatever their goal, it is, our our, our responsibility that we have is to help them reach that goal. So that's kind of in a nutshell. And how we've been able to work with an impact. 00;57;50;22 - 00;58;27;29 That community that's been that's been that's been the highlight of my career that's amazing and it what other programs are there that you have that's relative to the different types of individuals looking for help. So we've talked about the military. It's talk fitness centers. So as the primary fitness center management organization for Oracle, what would be in this case an example for that similar like program Individuals come in, they ask for one thing or is the same process followed for them to assess what what they actually need and then the recommendations? 00;58;28;02 - 00;58;51;05 Yeah. So depending upon our location, the if our process may look a little different. But in a nutshell, what you have access to, you you have access to in-person training right where you are, you are, you are you have a professional on location that can be a guide for personal training journey, right? We also have remote offerings, right? 00;58;51;05 - 00;59;12;09 So you have we have an app called Access Fit that's phenomenal where you got programs on that app that you can that is based out of our whole system. Our whole system is integrated to that experience there. And there are programs you can you can you can use all of access fit. There's live programs. You can sign up for this coaching consultations. 00;59;12;09 - 00;59;47;19 You can sign up for three access there. And then there's the experience. We call it the game changer, which is essentially like a deep dive into the overarching mindset, which is the most important pillar that have because my mindset is the glue that holds everything together and it is the vehicle which propelled me forward. And so those are whether whether it's an in-person experience, whether it's a digital experience or a remote experience or experience dealing specifically around my mindset. 00;59;47;21 - 01;00;10;02 We have we have solutions in that that are really encompass all of that. So what we try to do is we want to make we want to we want to be an organization that can meet you where you are, wherever you are in your journey. We we have a solution that can help you right there and help out come alongside it. 01;00;10;04 - 01;00;39;25 Can't say that I'm unfamiliar with the game changer went through that. So fortunately with the relationships that we have with the fitness center, Austin Howlett, who runs our Austin facility but also manages other locations, he introduced me to the game Changer, went through it last year. It is amazing experience because it does if we can dive in a little bit about that six weeks, couple of hours a week, starts with a foundation assessment and then foundation that builds from that. 01;00;39;27 - 01;01;00;10 And this is why we're talking about it. The perception that we have at times when we associate a name or an activity based off of what we believe is we can misunderstand things. So I thought I thought those were just fitness. And so when I was introduced to the game changers details, I was asked, Do you want to go through it? 01;01;00;12 - 01;01;19;02 And I didn't even bother reading about it. I was just like, Yes, So I did. I didn't I hadn't realized that there was depth to what EXOS delivers, so I thought it was just a physical training thing. And so I didn't read through the documentation. And so on day one, when we show up, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that I was ill prepared for what it was to provide. 01;01;19;02 - 01;01;38;00 And so it took me a little bit longer to get caught up. But what did do is it introduced now the relevance of the things that you described over the last hour of the combination of things that have to be accounted for, where you might put a little bit more emphasis on the mindset or put a little bit more emphasis on the recovery like we talked about. 01;01;38;00 - 01;02;12;04 Like I personally believe I could do things. I just need to know why I'm doing it and the benefit, and that's enough to convince me to do that. So if that's a connection on a relative mindset, what else is there that EXOS provides for people in remote locations? You talked about EXOS Fit. What else is there? I would say currently the primary solution we have for somebody getting EXOS but not going into that facility is access to that. 01;02;12;07 - 01;02;35;26 We currently have programs that we are delivering through bridge athletics, so that's if you come to our facility, you know, where used to write programs in Microsoft Excel and printed off into a sheet of paper and hand it to you. We now program our programs just out of bridge and it's a digital platform where we have iPads mounted on our racks, dragging a sign into an iPad and boom, my whole training program is there. 01;02;35;26 - 01;03;18;04 The beauty of that is I can leave here and access that program through my phone. And so that allows me as a coach to continue the program and deliver it and update it and interact with that platform. And that's that's makes it a very, very it makes it a very seamless touchpoint to continue to interact somebody remotely. And so we have that and we also are beginning we're beginning to build programs where somebody can just buy a program through bridge built by access and access it and we just launched one recently for around the NFL combine where, you know, one thing that we do a lot here is we train an athlete, we train football 01;03;18;04 - 01;03;46;08 players for NFL combine, right? Well, we just built a program in bridge that somebody could buy where it's built for linear speed. So it's got lifting, it's got speed work and so if someone's a high school athlete and they want an access program to help them get faster, then go and buy that program. So but the primary the primary platform is going to be explicit that we integrate, interact with from a remote standpoint. 01;03;46;10 - 01;04;08;27 Got it. Solid. Anything else? No. I appreciate I really appreciate you taking the time. And yeah, if there's if there's more you want to get into around you know, what we do with the tactical space, I'd be happy to dive into that. But but yeah it's essentially it's essentially good people servant of the people. That's what we do. 01;04;08;29 - 01;04;46;07 That's clear. I mean and there is there is a lot to unpack and everything that we're talking about. But it again we've got we have seven episodes. So I think the idea of here where we can have it be more applicable is just the introduction of the offerings. And so we'll just take this minute to summarize, it's you've got Anthony here that serves in a role where there's a personal investment based off of what he's experienced growing up, coming up and, how he's paying it forward to gratitude in an organization where that is the premise of what they offer and not only why, but how they offer. 01;04;46;07 - 01;05;12;22 It is to remember the purpose and the meaningful work of who they're supplying it to and for. It's selfless. It is a matter of understanding that cultural component when you're investing trust and time in others to help you through the most difficult, most vulnerable moments of your life. This is an element of where it's all encompassing. It's factored into not only the game plan, but it's also into the brand with the pillars that are developed. 01;05;12;22 - 01;05;45;08 The subcomponents where you work and rest equals success. I mean, that in itself is identifying the key components to where when you're ready and you ask for help, you can get it. And when you get it, have an expectation of excellence serving the community with the ones that offer excellence. I mean, again, an organization like Oracle is wanting its best for its employees, and how they do that is bring in partners that deliver the best EXOS Is that so? 01;05;45;10 - 01;06;26;01 You know, be curious about what it is that you're wanting to do. Release a little bit of some anxious moments and ask questions and start to build the reasons why want to do it. Reach out to the ones that you can trust to do it for you. And when it comes to the fitness component, you're looking at the things that matter and how it all plays a part that you can find in EXOS Specifically, we're talking on the premise of the service to the military and how you're paying it back and providing our service members and veterans a way to now understand how how the experiences that have changed their bodies, mechanisms and the mindsets 01;06;26;01 - 01;06;57;21 that may as a result have been affected by that limitation, new limitation, and how you can bring them back to a place to where they want to be. Closing remarks Now. I really appreciate you doing this. You know, we we have a heart to serve and we want to serve and help. And the more that we can, the more people understand, you know, the premise of what we do, the more likely they're able to take it, take advantage of it, and and and utilize the resources that are available to them. 01;06;57;23 - 01;07;18;24 And the more people, more lives that we can impact. So, no, I really appreciate it. Thank you. Oh, you bet. It's it's without a doubt one of the most important things that I love about what we're doing is the people we get to connect with. How how does somebody get in touch with XO or U or how they want to learn more about their situation? 01;07;18;24 - 01;07;40;12 What are the options to choose from to get connected? Yeah. So if you have a SO one, if anyone wants to reach out to me, my my email is a Hobgood at team EXOS dot com. You can always shoot me an email you also have off if you go to our team access dot com website. There are ways to connect with us if you want to go that route as well. 01;07;40;12 - 01;08;18;24 But then if you have a a EXOS performance coach specialist and that's your location that you can tap into. I would 100% start there, go there and see them and just, you know, seek to understand the resources that they provide. But yeah, you can definitely reach out to me if you ever have any questions for sure. And there is a presence on LinkedIn and I will note that that you know, as in a professional world now is as some may be more familiar than others, because I know service members may not leverage LinkedIn regularly, but there are some things that you can see through LinkedIn that EXOS is putting out on some good articles and 01;08;18;24 - 01;08;44;25 things like that. So there's there's a bunch of different ways to do it. As Anthony's mentioned, use those specific ways, those specific parts. But if you're still unsure at a minimum, go, go to the the interwebs look at their their website, go there, but also use some of the other media tools that are available to get free free components that will get you more in the know and more confident to get to the point when you're ready. 01;08;44;25 - 01;09;07;12 You can think, to understand. Now see, to understand. All right, Anthony. Well, I'm looking forward to these next episode. You on a few of them. So yeah, I'm looking forward to reconnecting. And by all means, you know, if there's any additional information that you'd like to share, let me know and I'll put it into the description as well as just make it available for when people start to ask for feedback. 01;09;07;12 - 01;09;51;11 And this is going to be good. So thanks for taking a minute to kick us off. You're welcome. Thank you, Chris. All right, everyone, keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

1
Oracle's Derrick Oliver: Lead Manager, Marine Veteran, and New Chair for MAVEN 1:13:19

2 years1:13:19

1:13:19

In this episode, Derrick shares how his 27-year Marine Corps career exposed his innate ability to identify opportunities where he leverages his drive and passion for selfless service while surrounding himself with first-hand experiences of effective leadership. We also cover how his military transition plan revealed unexpected emotions and responses to change that ultimately placed him at the right place at the right time while forging the strength of his family. As Derrick assumes the role of MAVEN Chair, it is an honor to pass the responsibility to him as we continue the mission to serve. Please remember to check in on your buddies, family, and ask for help. https://www.oracle.com/veterans/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;32;13 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized sessions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to season two of the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this first episode I'm joined by our guest, Derek Oliver, lead manager, Marine veteran and new chair for MAVEN, Oracle's military affiliated veteran employee network. 00;00;32;20 - 00;00;55;06 In this episode, Derek shares how his 27 year Marine Corps career exposed his innate ability to identify opportunities where he leverages his drive and passion for selfless service while surrounding himself with firsthand experiences of effective leadership. We also cover how his military transition plan revealed unexpected emotions and responses, the change that ultimately placed him at the right place at the right time while forging the strength of his family. 00;00;55;11 - 00;01;15;17 As Derek assumes the role of MAVEN chair. It is an honor to pass this responsibility to him as we continue the mission to serve. Please remember to check in on your buddies and your family and ask for help. Thanks for listening. What's going on? Derek? Chris, What's going on, my friend? How are we doing this morning? We're doing all right. 00;01;15;23 - 00;01;45;10 You have a good weekend. A busy weekend, but, you know, no complaints. Every time I can get the family together, I'm always having a good weekend. Yeah. How about you? Yup. Same. As you know, it's our new fiscal year. Also a lot of reflection and a lot of planning, figuring out what's next. That was the internal text from the team is we get like, okay, we closed out last fiscal year, let's relax and relate and be ready to hit the ground running come Monday. 00;01;45;13 - 00;02;28;26 So, yeah, I understand that. Yup. All right. All right, everyone. So we have Derek here. Derek is a recent Oracle employee, came through the Cerner acquisition, but before that, he spent 27 years in the Marines. And my friend, 27, 27 years couldn’t make it to 30, but we won't hold him against. So Derek and I became acquaintances several months ago, where through Cerner, he was finding his way through all of the contacts and maneuvering through the relationships coming into Oracle, and he stumbled across Maven, our military affiliated veteran employee network as most of you know, if you’re new, that's what it stands for. 00;02;28;28 - 00;02;48;14 And as Derek came in, he was asking questions to learn more about it. He was super excited. I would like to say that he had the initial energy of somebody that's curious and he hasn't scaled back that energy. And I think that's the thing that we're going to talk about. One of the things we'll talk about today on what he's doing, how he got to be where he is. 00;02;48;14 - 00;03;08;12 But before we do all of that, Derek, if you wouldn't mind just giving us a little history on you. I mean, there's a lot to unpack in 27 years and before. So let's go. It is I would tell you, for me, it's strange to talk about me. I'm a kid from New Orleans. I grew up in the projects in New Orleans. 00;03;08;15 - 00;03;31;05 I did my time, you know, got in some trouble, you know, but had a strong upbringing from my mom so that was a good thing. My mom helped set the groundwork for me saying, hey, do the right thing for the right reasons. I needed something to challenge me. Hey, hey, come the Marine Corps. So actually, for you, Chris, I actually went to the Army recruiter first. 00;03;31;08 - 00;03;51;14 You just. So you went to our recruiter first. Here we go. Say, Hey, listen, I need my paperwork done by Monday so I could be ready. He can do it. I went to the Marine Corps recruiter. I say, Hey, I need my paperwork done by by Monday. He had it. Then the next day, the next day. So hey, let so, you know, shout out to you the army. 00;03;51;15 - 00;04;15;09 I think you got to try first. I was Army JROTC my entire time in high school so it was only fitting. But Army couldn't get it done for me. Couldn't get it done. We'll take we'll take that excess. That's fine. I want names and locations. Yeah. So onto the Marine Corps. 27 years, I would tell you it was a good 27 year. 00;04;15;09 - 00;04;42;22 Right. Got to see alot, got to travel the world, which I wanted to do. I me, man, I had some great duty stations Naples, Italy career you know, got to travel to Thailand, things like that. So for me it was great. It was an interesting ride because I had some good leadership along the way. I made up to E7 Gunnery Sergeant, but I wanted to do more. 00;04;42;22 - 00;04;59;23 I wanted to make some decisions. So I transitioned to the one of summer out in the Marine Corps. I made up to Chief Warrant Officer three, like, I want to make some more decisions. I want you know, I want to be in charge. they're like, Hey, well, you got to become a limited duty officer. 00;04;59;25 - 00;05;24;03 Sure enough, I submit it applies. Spring was accepted, made up to the rank of major. I think I've had a great career. I have no regrets, no complaints, like you say. Yes. I didn't make it to 30. It was a business decision on a on the part of my wife. She made a business decision. It me being a good vice president, I say yes, ma'am. 00;05;24;10 - 00;05;47;15 And agreed to separate from service. But that was part of the business process of making sure that my home front could be taken care of. Finally, after doing what I needed to do for 27 years to make sure my career was well. So it was a business decision on our case which landed me to the transition process, which was arrived. 00;05;47;17 - 00;06;13;04 And people don't think about that, that right after 27 years in uniform finally doing something different. It was interesting. I went through a lot of transition workshops and ended up at Cerner, some good leadership there. They helped me through the transition, but during that transition was like, Hey, get ready to make one more transition. We just got acquired by Oracle, so I had to learn to discern the concept. 00;06;13;07 - 00;06;31;16 All I learned at Oracle at the same time, which led me to Maven and you and I Connection, So I hope I was able to bring you up to speed on all 27 some years. Yeah, you brought me up to speed, but that's like the cliff notes, so. Okay, let's dive in a little bit, if you wouldn't mind. 00;06;31;19 - 00;06;49;20 Oh, boy. Here we go. Here we go. How old were you when you when you started to think, Well, a couple things. What got you thinking about the military? For me, I knew I had to leave New Orleans. I wanted to see something different. Me staying in New Orleans, I felt wasn't going to bring me anything different. So I had to change my environment. 00;06;49;27 - 00;07;09;16 So the military, I was always taught the military was the easiest way to change that scenery and give me a life for myself. So going to the military was already a done deal. Just what branch got it. And so to be clear, if you all picked that up, he used the word easy. So the army wasn't easy because we have standards. 00;07;09;16 - 00;07;34;24 But he'd the easy when in the Marines they were easy. Yeah. Like the way you choose to fill your Army recruiter part. Got it. Just say so. How old were you when you when you went looking? I was 17. I literally I did it my junior year, the end of my sophomore year junior high school. So my mom, I say, Hey, I need you to sign up. 00;07;34;25 - 00;07;55;21 I wanted to go into my senior year knowing that I have a plan for my life. So that's what we did. Okay. Any any resistance from Mom? She was hesitant. She was like, Are you sure? I'm like, Listen, I do you signing now or I'm going to get it done. When you did pro long and and she was my okay, got it. 00;07;55;21 - 00;08;15;29 And I tell you to this day we talk about that conversation we had she like I'm glad I made I made a decision to go with you on it so. Well that's good. I mean that's that talks a little bit about being able to have the trust and confidence, I'm sure. Yeah. It actually made it easier knowing that I had her support. 00;08;16;00 - 00;08;36;07 At the end of the day, you know, she was like, Hey, we've been through this. And she, like you was raised by me. So any boot camp you be able to withstand that was like, yeah, it's just down know the things you tell me. So yes, it was good. Nice. That's good. All right. So 17. So when did you actually get in? 00;08;36;09 - 00;08;57;19 What age? 17. I was 17. I look, I was. Yeah, I was. Because I didn't turn 18 until November. So I, I graduated boot camp September 29th. So literally, I was still under age. I had made sure I had my mom paperwork When I went to and everything. So it was a big deal and is a big deal. 00;08;57;22 - 00;09;24;01 What year was that? 95 and 95. Oh yeah. Yeah, You were. You were coming in? I was getting out. Yeah, I remember that. Crossing paths. Yeah. It's good year. I mean that's a it's a lot of transition going on, you know, not a lot going on in the world. Clearly, you know, what's to come after that. Several years after that is, is a lot hinging on that so so how outward you end up going to boot camp. 00;09;24;03 - 00;09;51;01 So I got to make the decision to go east or west go so my work was like, good west go. You could deal with the heat by going to the East Coast and deal with those simply, I'm glad I made that decision. I went to San Diego, Nice, sunny San Diego. I can't beat San Diego. So when after after boot camp, talk a little bit about that process and where you wind up going and what kind of activities what would you most. 00;09;51;03 - 00;10;10;27 So book boot camp. I did a combat training. I did all on the West Coast. So finally I got to go to I was started off full service Marine, so, you know, went to full service school. I got to go to a joint school. So I was one of the first Marine class to go to the joint school. 00;10;10;27 - 00;10;37;23 So I actually checked into Camp Johnson. They're like, No, you going to Fort Lee, Virginia? I'm like, Fort Lee. So we had to literally pack up the school from Johnson and move it to Fort Lee Army base. Here we go again. Can't get away with it. Yeah, they didn't know the do Marines on that base. So again career started out will finish number two in school and the guy in front of me was like hey, listen, I don't want my orders. 00;10;37;25 - 00;11;03;27 I want to stay close to home. I'm like, Well, you got orders too. I'll take them. Naples, Italy were It's done too easy. Yeah. So this young lady again from New Orleans at this time in Naples, Italy. So funny part about that story I checked into Enable. There was like, Hey, we need you to go pick up some supplies in our line. 00;11;03;29 - 00;11;30;19 I don't know how to drive. You didn’t have a license? No license, no lies. So I learned how to drive on a flight line in Naples, Italy, for my sergeant, teaching me how to drive so I could get a license so I would be able to drive vehicles in New Orleans. A young kid, we use public transportation. We didn't own a vehicle, so it was the way I made it around. 00;11;30;21 - 00;11;55;18 Nice. Yes. How did that go? I tell you, it was scary. It was scary. But we got it done. I actually passed my driver's test when they got my license and mailed to me. So I officially had a Louisiana driver's license with no picture for three years. Nice. That's a good story. It's. It's heating up. So how long are you in Italy? 00;11;55;21 - 00;12;14;18 In Italy for? Three and a half years. Came back to the states, went to Lazio, didn't want to get orders in Route two eight, denied OJ's post in the Corps. We're going to headquarters in the fish bowl. And that's what my life in the fish bowl actually started. Okay. Oh, there it goes. So let's let's start a little bit about that. 00;12;14;18 - 00;12;32;08 So when you when you got to that location, what's your rank? I was a corporal, corporal, moving up. So talk a little bit about the fishbowl. So being in a fishbowl, you know, going to eighth and going to D.C., you know, you have all the senior leaders there. I'm like, man, what am I doing here? I'm not cut out for this. 00;12;32;09 - 00;12;53;15 But little did I know me and able to be around the senior leadership of the Marine Corps and seeing how they interact, then seeing how those the the spotlight was there actually made me change my mindset on the Marine Corps is like, hey, less is more. Because at that point I'll say I'm hitting my four year mark, I'm ready to get out. 00;12;53;15 - 00;13;18;17 But I got there and I'm like, Man, there's more to this. You already had to get overseas too. Let's get us one more go at it. The re-enlisted for another four years from that point. Got it. And I think this is this has started the connections of your like the pursuit of why you're making your decision. So when you left and as a 17 year old young man, did you have an idea of what you were seeking other than just to get out of Louisiana? 00;13;18;19 - 00;13;38;19 I had no idea. I had no direction at eight. I think this is where the light bulb really went off and to see that, hey, you did get a overseas tour, but this it this is bigger than you. The decision is bigger than you. So, yeah, this would that I think was the turning point for me. Got it. 00;13;38;21 - 00;13;59;12 Yeah. So you started to dial into some of the things of probably inspiration, curiosity, a little bit of both or anything else. A little bit of both. And started to learn that everything is not about Derek, even though I never thought I was always worried about making things better for me, you know, to take pressure off my mom. 00;13;59;12 - 00;14;24;26 But it kind of switched. There is about making others around me better because I got to witness it daily. So that was a really turning point for me. Okay, so you signed up for another for anything in addition to that as far as going somewhere else, or was it just to stay there? Nothing special, really. Nothing special at that point was like, hey, look, you signed up for another four years. 00;14;25;02 - 00;14;56;26 Let's see what it brings. You Advance got promoted to sergeant, you know, eventually starts on my next duty station. But for me, in between, I got married. Nice. Get married, my dear wife. But I will tell you, stats are on is where it really hit home for me. It really hit home for me because I while as a starting, I had Marines and bus stops and I had a section that I was accountable. 00;14;56;26 - 00;15;24;01 I had to report things. And seeing how my Marines responded to me, taking care of them is what really, really drove it home for me. Got it? Yeah, it was time. Okay, Derek, let's get yourself really together and start taking care of you people. Yeah. So starting to starting to develop a base, right? So now you're newly married, realizing things are much bigger than than you. 00;15;24;03 - 00;15;53;00 And you're seeing the results of your effort, of taking care of others. So that brings us eight years. What's going on at that point? What was going on at that point? I see. That's when I mature. I guess I will tell you I that's when I really matured between having a family of my own and a family of Marines because I was like I was focused on everybody else and I saw the fruits of my labor when everybody around me did good, I was happy. 00;15;53;02 - 00;16;14;13 My life was better. So truly a turning point for me. Okay, so you hit E7. So hit E7. I was like, you know, I had done some good things. So by this time I had matured as a full service Marine, as a E7. I think I had that pinnacle because I was cooking for the commandant of Marine Corps at that time. 00;16;14;15 - 00;16;35;12 So the senior person in the Marine Corps, you know, I was cooking for him a team of four. We had a great team too, great memories. But I'd never forget I was sitting there. We had just got done. Some dignitary left and some decision was made. I'm reading email, some decision, and I'm like, Man, it's a dumb decision. 00;16;35;12 - 00;17;01;01 Why do we make it? My the down looked at me like Danny Oh, you could do is execute on it. You're enlisting Marine we execute orders we don't make decision right I don't make no sense. I will become an officer. I was like, done, done. Somebody put it out there. Yeah. So because I never for me, I never had the notion of being also, I enjoy being an enlisted man. 00;17;01;01 - 00;17;24;19 I enjoy me. I told Master Gunn, I'm to be master, you know, I'm taking your spot. So that was always my driver. But he hit a home for me. He said, Listen, in the Marine Corps, you as enlisted more. You can advise the leadership and everything, but the officer will make that decision or set that policy. So I wanted to be a part of that process. 00;17;24;22 - 00;17;46;05 So that's why I became a chief warrant officer. Is this, do you think, ties back to when you were a kid growing up? Were you would you looking at it now in hindsight as a kid, would you consider yourself to be a leader, somebody that's fitting into that role of what you're pursuing now after that realization as a new seven? 00;17;46;07 - 00;18;09;14 I didn't see it. I didn't think of myself as a leader. But inherently I was, you know, my upbringing, you know, again, having a base did establish that. But I never saw myself that I didn't see even as to become an officer. I saw myself as one of the Marines. And I think that's what helped drove my leadership. 00;18;09;16 - 00;18;32;16 Got it. Makes sense. Okay. So let's pause on that comment on in the Marine Corps, you got to have a good nugget, a story, conversation, anything. So I would tell you one of the biggest the biggest things that that matter to me and I took from him, we was loading and playing, getting ready to go on the trip. 00;18;32;18 - 00;18;55;13 We'd take him, taking out, putting the bags on the plane, coming out, Marine Corps, taking his bags, putting them on a make sure we got this. He stopped and he looked at me like, Gunny, if I ever get to get to load my own bags, we got a problem. Then it's time for me to retire. Like I'm working just like you are. 00;18;55;13 - 00;19;16;06 I should be able to help you now. I'm just out floor, the House floor. And from that, I took you. Never too much of a leader that you can move your own back. Do the grunt work is what I saw it as. And for me, that's the who me that matter to me. So that's the one big lug. 00;19;16;07 - 00;19;37;25 And I tell him about it all the time. Like, sir, that day stuck with me because I was born all the time. We had just got done with events. It was right to traveling. So yeah, that matter. Got it? Yeah. That's. That's a good one. Adds to probably how you're shaping up to be the person that at that point who you are wanting to be there. 00;19;37;25 - 00;20;01;24 Time I spent with the commandant and his team, the leadership team helped shake me as officer. It really did because I got to see true leaders, the expert work. It was an unfiltered environment it was in and it was no cameras around. I mean, so things that they truly care about it is show day in and day out. 00;20;01;26 - 00;20;24;12 And for me, I knew that's the kind of officer I wanted to be. When I say I'm going to do, I'm going to do what I say in that matter, you're on it. But you made a pit stop. So instead of going straight, obviously you go to warrant. How'd that come about? So for me, because the food service community was so important to me, that's where I wanted to be. 00;20;24;14 - 00;20;53;14 I wanted to make sure I took care of the food service because, again, that's my career. That's where I come from. So that's why I want to do that. It's like, Hey, you to do. The expert is being looked at as a duty expert that mattered. That mattered kind of the best of both worlds, right? Yeah. So I had the institutional knowledge of what their enlisted Marines were going through, but I had the responsibility and authority of officer. 00;20;53;14 - 00;21;24;26 My I said, I'm right in the middle. You can't complain about that. What years that then that was 2010. Okay, that was 2010. So but it could be a long time, though, because you you really don't belong to either world. You you kind of happen in the middle. So some dangerous territory some time because you got to think of you got to think about I have a lot of my friends that I grew up with from their list. 00;21;24;26 - 00;21;57;15 They were all that, Hey, those are my buddies. But it was tough. And I will tell you that one of the hardest moments when I had the discipline administratively, one of my friends, peer promotions, those are always challenging. So you were you were still with the team that you had been in enlisted? No, I wasn't. So the separated the Marine Corps made sure we got separated, but I went, I'm having some guys that I grew up with come work under my charge. 00;21;57;18 - 00;22;31;17 I was a surreal moment. Yeah, that becomes real at that moment, right? Yes. As far as the the complexity, right. It's not all about the things that you want it to be or see it as being. It's it becomes real. Yeah, it does. So 2010. Yep. W three And so that was what, 20 what 15, 16. And you know, by that time I was when we was overseas, we did seven years in Japan, living life with the family, everybody's family. 00;22;31;23 - 00;22;56;20 Yeah, everybody there. We getting to see the world travel, you know, the family like to say, hey, they did seven years on Japan. In Okinawa, I was always gone. Some exercise, always on bombing somewhere, doing something but enjoying life and being Marines. Got it. And then you're still not happy, still not content to keep pushing. I need more. 00;22;56;20 - 00;23;24;11 I need more. So 20 what? 15? Decide to submit in the Marine Corps. We got eliminated duty officer when that you want us to submit and become a captain. So convert to the captain I would say goes. I don't think I got what it takes. Let's see I pushed the envelope was boarded screen selected man we down at Parris Island enjoying life So then we get the call. 00;23;24;11 - 00;23;44;17 Hey, guess what, Captain? You got to like that. But now you got to come to the Pentagon. He just said, Don't do my beltway tours. So that was it. Couldn't see it. He just. He just dropped his shoulders as if it was a bad thing. It's like going to DC because I was like, because I knew what I was walking into. 00;23;44;20 - 00;24;11;14 So to the Far side of Puzzle Palace, they call it so to be the operations officer for Marine Corps Food Service Program. Great tours, great tours, because I got to advise the director for Michael Food Service own DOD policy. You know, I got to be at the pinnacle of transformation. Derek has finally got to a place where he wanted to be. 00;24;11;16 - 00;24;39;14 Yes. So I thought so I thought I got back to headquarters like I would come home to my wife, think, why get to, you know, affect policy, be at the forefront. I miss my Marines. I miss being around Marines. I miss talking to Marine because Pentagon is senior leadership. You know, you some of the list of Marine Bubba is senior enlisted Marines. 00;24;39;14 - 00;24;58;13 You know, it's not that last school, but that e to that E three where the rubber meets the road. So yeah, I was ready to get out. I was ready to do my time, make sure I advocated for the Marine Corps and get out. Yeah, but not for nothing. Right. So it's it's an ambition. It's a it's a curiosity. 00;24;58;17 - 00;25;34;04 I mean, you're talking now at that point is 20 years ish, right, of building the base, Understanding your life stage is now increasing your awareness of what you want to do, where you want to go, figuring out how to get there. Where did you get the confidence to be able to make these leaps? It sounds like early on when you were getting told, you know, you're you're an advisor if you want to if you want to give orders and make policy, you've got to go officer to that conversation to where that was your push seemingly. 00;25;34;06 - 00;25;53;29 Where did you where did you get the confidence after that go from warrant to officer? So I got there from being around the Marines, making sure that I could advocate for Marines. So like I told them, I was I made a shift in my life. It wasn't about Derek. It was about people around me, how I can make things better. 00;25;53;29 - 00;26;11;18 So that push came from a twofold effort. One, I could advocate better for the Marines that I was in charge of who I was, you know, taking care of and to a better life for my family. So it was a twofold process. And at the end of the day, it was anything for me, it was for everybody around me. 00;26;11;18 - 00;26;37;29 So when I made the leap, everybody else prospered. And that was my mindset behind it not makes sense. I mean, and we're going to get to this, but it's building the story of when I met you the way you would carry yourself and the questions you would ask, the information you'd bring to the conversation was giving me an indication of how you wanted to understand a certain level of detail through the experience. 00;26;38;02 - 00;27;00;16 Right? Have the actual street knowledge, if you will, versus theory book knowledge of understanding words. It's more along going through the experience to where that's going to establish the ability to know how to navigate the things that are necessary that we're like you just said, others will prosper. So now, now you use you got that itch that you wanted to get back in front of your Marines. 00;27;00;16 - 00;27;31;10 So it sounds like you're going to command from the air. So it worked out for me. I was selected to go down to Fort Lee again. Look at that. Look at that down to Fort Lee to be the company commander and director, directed food service school, best of both worlds while I was do had it man I got the best of both worlds because now I got to run the school that helped build my career. 00;27;31;12 - 00;27;59;04 But I also got the command. I had command time and having the command of upwards of 500 Marines ebb and flow, man, that's some responsibility. But for me, I got to talk to Marines every day of the week. I got to talk to junior Marines and just listen to their great stories and talk about their mom and dad, where they came from every day. 00;27;59;07 - 00;28;21;00 I was at Hog's Heaven. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. I drove myself crazy, that's for sure. Well, we're getting to that. So it's a it's an attitude, right? I think it's safe to say it's like it's not only the things that personally that you're looking at and how you perceive things to be and what you want to be involved in, but it's making a connection of of the other side. 00;28;21;00 - 00;28;48;05 So you've gone through decisions of others. You've recognized some areas of improvement, some ways to enhance, increase the outcomes would be morale and energy and kind of just the inspiration for others to to not have to at least worry about that part of whatever they're going through. And that's kind of the point of leaders is to where if you're going to be distracted or lose focus on attention or put attention on something, it's not for what you're responsible for, not on your watch, if you will. 00;28;48;09 - 00;29;11;02 Right. So that's pretty impressive to be able to work through, you know, the timelines and get to that point. Not losing your focus, although you probably didn't have it when you started. It became apparent through your actions of what you were determined to achieve. So talk a little bit about what like what were you able to do specifically? 00;29;11;04 - 00;29;32;03 You know, like the main thing that you remember that was the most impactful at that point for you and how you were able to drive change? For me, the most impactful for me, and I tell you, is still relevant now is the engagement with the families of the people. So I had a student population, so I was in charge of the schools. 00;29;32;03 - 00;29;51;21 So the student population. So this was a critical point in no young individual's career, not only in their career, but in a family's belief in the Marine Corps and how there was going to be care for in the Marine Corps. So for me, that was essential. And that's all the staff. Yes, they're grown men and women, but they're grown men and women. 00;29;51;21 - 00;30;16;13 That was just someone's baby a couple of months ago and that matter. And I always went back to the staff and say, listen, make sure that you're keeping the young Marine informed so he or she can keep their parents informed. But the parent engagement is one thing that I instill. We put there. We use social media, these these young Marine use social media and their families was there. 00;30;16;20 - 00;30;36;03 So putting that information pipeline into place to keep the families involved and keep their stress down at it. Because for me as a parent, I had a kid by this time I had a kid off in college. So receiving information and knowing how my kid is doing, I was able to put that para head on in a simulator to lead the Marines. 00;30;36;03 - 00;31;03;02 So the biggest thing I put in place was that communication pipeline from this student back to their parents and is still in place now. And every commander that they came behind me has told me, Man, we're glad you did that, because we see it makes a difference. That's nice. And that you're absolutely right that you couldn't there wouldn't have been a better answer than that is because the fact that there is the uncertainty coming up. 00;31;03;04 - 00;31;26;02 And somewhat of what I was asking, you know, how your mom took the news that you wanted to go off and do those things. You know, there's there's a place, too, where as kids, children of parents, where we owe it to them to give them some level of safety, security. And that solitude comes with information. And so I like that. 00;31;26;02 - 00;31;51;05 That's that's thanks for doing that, because that's that's an important element that sometimes can easily be lost in the pursuit of mission. Right. When we when we get so focused on doing something else that it's easy to forget to tell people what's going on here. I used to be, but yes, they are Marines. True or true, they have the title of a child, but they have a mom or dad that's sitting at home crying, wonder what's going on with them. 00;31;51;05 - 00;32;15;21 So it matter. Yep. Family. I mean, that's that's key. All right. So when did you start thinking about getting out? Let's where we're in your life stage, you're starting to consider what you're going to do post Marines. Yeah. So? So during this time, while I'm at Fort Lee, what people didn't realize was Malik and I made another business decision was to leave her in the kids in place. 00;32;15;24 - 00;32;39;16 So Fort Lee was a two and a half hour drive away from where we were living at. My youngest two daughters were in the good school district. Everything was going there. So we actually we're geographically separated during the week. So I was there Monday, Monday through Thursday at Fort Lee. I didn't come home on Fridays to take care of the family at that point. 00;32;39;16 - 00;33;02;22 We had been doing this for three years now. It was like, okay, what's next? But my daughters came to me like that. Think about this. My youngest daughter has a chance to go to middle school in high school, in the same place that's never been done by the older two girls before. They're like, That could be beneficial to her mind. 00;33;02;25 - 00;33;27;25 So this high tech conversation happened around, you know, the girls over the weekend. So that's when me and Malik started playing around with it. We started looking at it like it was best for the family. So we actually toured over this decision for about I want to say, eight months, eight months. One weekend I was home. My youngest daughter looked just like that. 00;33;27;25 - 00;33;57;07 I really like this place. She like I like my friends here. I get to see everybody. So I like that. My wife, Malik, I see we're done just like that. That Sunday, I sat at my desk. I typed up my intent to retire, to bring it to work with me. The next day. So that decision was made in 2022. 00;33;57;09 - 00;34;30;19 So it was tough. I bet 2022 last year. Yeah, it was tough. It's a lifetime whether I yeah, that was one of the hardest decisions I had to make when I went in to talk to my commander. I'm right, sir. I'm going to submit for it. I'm like, No, no, really, Did you think about this? So I brought him through the process. 00;34;30;19 - 00;34;57;08 You know what happened? So he's like, Just think about it. So I left my paperwork on his desk, you know, when he did my thing, didn't talk to anyone about it. So Friday before I left to head back home, I stopped by his office. This is sir. Yes? It's time. It's time. So that weekend must have been fun. 00;34;57;11 - 00;35;23;18 How? You know, a lot of. A lot of a lot of contradiction. Yeah. Back and forth. It was a lot of back. It was a lot of back for a man. I think about writing this issue like, can we put the papers back That's like that. Their ship has sailed. So I tell you, I actually looked up who I could call heck was my record to actually stop the process. 00;35;23;20 - 00;35;46;07 That's how back and forth we went with it. But finally, when I got the notification, Hey, your pin, the retirement has been approved, was going through the process. We switched gears and started looking at the next mission. Got it. So what at that point? So how much time between that day and then when you're actually going to separate? 00;35;46;10 - 00;36;07;21 What's that We had we had nine months, nine months, nine months, the execution time from approval to actual exit date. Got it. So, so nine plus eight. So year and a half, 17 months. Right. Some math, right. It's just a year contemplated. So for for everybody out there and we're talking because we're now we're getting into the transition component. 00;36;07;21 - 00;36;27;14 And when I say last year and I emphasize that because we're going fast track this, but we'll circle back is to think about separating after 27 years. And I don't there's not a whole lot of us that can understand what 27 years is until you go through 27 years of something and then be able to talk about it in. 00;36;27;16 - 00;36;48;16 Now we just we've compromised on how to associate time. And a decision to say within two years is an appropriate amount of time to begin. We know that that's probably a good time to start, if not earlier. Plan is always good, but get to have a conversation over eight months and then be able to execute on the decision. 00;36;48;16 - 00;37;17;12 And then a couple of days, couple of three, four or five days to go back and forth on whether or not it was the right decision. And then the one thing that locks it in is it's been approved. Now you're moving with nine months left. What do you do to get to get ready at that point? So for me, I will tell you, this is where it got real for me, because we this is what people don't think about. 00;37;17;12 - 00;37;43;18 Like you said, 27 years I had announced with my mindset for 27 years, I knew what I was going to do. It was, yes, I'd change and change these days every two or three years. But the Marine Corps told me, Hey, this is what you're going to do that's not there anymore. That's gone with us next. So I went through every transition class, every transition program that was out there that was offered. 00;37;43;18 - 00;38;11;24 I mean, literally, Derek was going through I need to understand this process, what's going to happen with me through transition because I needed a playbook. So I need to tell me how to do this transition thing was next. But I will tell you, Chris, there's nothing like that out There is no one book to help you transition 20 some years to make that move, to make that that pivot. 00;38;11;26 - 00;38;49;09 There's guys, they help get you there, but there's nothing there. Yeah, there's there's nothing. The last, last number I had so approximately, give or take, thousands more like 47,000 organizations focused on military in the US, 47,000. I mean, it's it's a lot, but it's at the end of the day, what it also is, it can become overwhelming as to where do I find a thing that works for me and how do I how do I get connected to that organization or effort, as large or small as it may be, we all have different needs. 00;38;49;09 - 00;39;14;05 And it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to be able to key in on something. It is. So I will tell you that that sent me into a dark place for a person who's always been in control. I knew how to control things, to not know how to or where to go. And it's a very dark place for a minute. 00;39;14;08 - 00;39;42;17 And I don't think a lot of people realize that a person who's been in control know how to control things to go to this abyss. Yeah, I really had to up my my mid to my time when my mental provider during that time frame, it was key for me. I was lucky because I saw myself going to a dark place. 00;39;42;19 - 00;40;11;07 Not everyone has that that luxury, that ability to see themselves going down that dark path. So yeah, now that was a trying time for me. I can only imagine. And then going through it, you, you, so you, you were able to find at least a couple organizations and build relationships to be able to help navigate. You want to talk a little bit about how you found them and how you engage with them? 00;40;11;09 - 00;40;39;13 Yeah. So I would again, I would say I'm one of the lucky ones because me and I was able to attend different programs that I, I can list a ton here, but I was able to wade through ten different programs to help set me up for transition, to learn how to interview, to learn something. This was when I'm going to where to work. 00;40;39;15 - 00;41;10;27 People Don't realize. That's why it may seem simple to the average civilian, but to. So while I knew what I was wearing for 27 years to decide what I'm wearing to work next week, it could play on your mind. It could play on your mind. I It's funny you bring that up because when I first got out, along with my arrogance and pride and ego and all that stuff, thinking I was I was always good to go. 00;41;11;00 - 00;41;42;26 Not yet humbled that that came later. I would I would come in wearing what I wanted to. And that doesn't bode well if you if you think that you don't have to adapt in somebody else's world, reconsider your thought because you need to do some things that will allow you to even the basics as to coming showing up in the appearance and not knowing what first impressions really meant, because it was always something that you had on the collar or your lapels. 00;41;42;28 - 00;42;05;27 That was the first impression you were looked at as a rank, therefore not less of an individual until you establish relationship. While in the civilian world, first impression is times the thousand. As far as the bias, the judgments and all the people that determine things of how you look, which we all know you got, you got to be able to work through those things by understanding the basics. 00;42;05;27 - 00;42;31;04 And so that's I like how you brought that up. I know that's the I'm not the only thing and it is somewhat trivial at the point, but it is a key element that adds to other things. And so appearance is certainly something that should go on the list. Yeah, it to me is the snowball effect. Why is that little thing to me is that little parable you make someone get that snowball started, it can really go to a very bad place. 00;42;31;07 - 00;42;51;09 And I think people take take it for granted time. So and that's why I bring it up and that's why I stress it as I talk to people about transition. It may seem Minister, but men that can start a snowball. Indeed it does. And that's that's the thing. It's less about the clothes. It's more about the little things. 00;42;51;09 - 00;43;14;26 You add them together and then all of a sudden it starts to take a toll on how you're perceiving things and it's your self-talk begins and you used a great word, the abyss. You start to unravel things in your head that may or may not be true by others means of perspective. But it matters less because you're thinking about it all the time and you got to get out of that and that comes through the network. 00;43;14;29 - 00;43;37;02 And I would tell you, I was lucky to have a network that I can lean on because it was a lot of self doubt. And Derrick sitting in a you for me, being a person that had made it through so much to now have self doubt man, am I ready for this? Am I cut out for this? Am I going to make it in this? 00;43;37;04 - 00;44;06;02 Yeah, it was a dark place. Yeah. So on the flip side, you also have to think about your accomplishments and you key in on those things and how what translates can translate. And so immediately standing out for, for all of you listening, I don't, I didn't know all of these details about Derrick and we did that intentionally. So it's something just to kind of keep aware of that. 00;44;06;02 - 00;44;27;20 I'm hearing some of these things for the first time and I'm immediately connecting the dots on consistency from being the young Marine that, Derrick, you were going through what you did to get to where you are now. The consistency is your worth, the value and the mindset that you attribute to your success based off of others service to others. 00;44;27;20 - 00;44;56;28 That's the continuity of what you're bringing to the table. So when when do you start thinking about what you have to do specifically as you get closer to that date and how did you end up at certain So well, again, for me it was I don't think I was ever there. I still don't think I'm there. I, I think and I tell you, we got to continue to evolve. 00;44;57;00 - 00;45;21;29 I just felt more comfortable. The more transition things I did, the more networking I did. A for me, my network truly helped me see that, hey, you have what it takes to to be okay. You're going to be okay. So my network helped me to see that different networking events brought me to. I was at one where it was Sano was there and it was funny. 00;45;22;01 - 00;45;48;14 So starting with that, this networking event show you full circle in uniform, He and I had an encounter. We didn't realize this was going to lead to hair, so we were talking, met him. He looked familiar, didn't put one and one together. They looked at the old person and I remember say, Hey, sir, you know, we we met when you were in charge of the hospital. 00;45;48;14 - 00;46;20;09 He was running the the wounded hospital. And I went over there with the commandant doing the tour, and he took the time to talk to me then, as well as the memorial man that matters and makes sense. So I picked up on an but net needs is that we had the networking event. I had already been given a preliminary offer from another organization, but Paatelainen talks I recruiting team talk to recruiters, you know network and why a recruiter is no longer here. 00;46;20;11 - 00;46;52;11 She brought she like hey just come in for informational call came in for information the call was later interview which led to me being hired. So I'm here Cerner and I'm getting to learn everything in the Veterans Network. You know, veterans Pool Western is smaller than there is in Oracle, but I'm getting learn everything, but also knowing in the back of my mind, I now have to make another transition which the crap out of me from Cerner into Oracle to even bigger font. 00;46;52;13 - 00;47;12;26 So I'm like, Man, so mentally people don't understand what I went through during that time, transitioning from the Marine Corps to my first position at CERN of learning how it is to be in the civilian world at the same time. Now I have to make a whole nother transition in the midst of that. Hey, I'm back to see my mentor counselor even more. 00;47;13;03 - 00;47;38;01 She like there is going to be all right, but no, and I need to see it because again, I'm going to another abyss that I was afraid of. Yep. Then that I can appreciate, because that's when. Now enter. When Derrick and I met, I couldn't tell. So used the analogy of the duck on water. Right. That's how Derrick presented himself. 00;47;38;04 - 00;48;02;13 And it isn't. And until as he and I got to know each other better over the last several months, this was, I think is October that we had first met. Yeah. Then it became a clear and this is this is so jokes aside this is why it's important to understand the delicacy behind the fact, the reality that you don't know what other people are going through, whatever they're presenting themselves to be is not always the case. 00;48;02;15 - 00;48;21;19 And it means something here, because the fact is, somebody with so many accomplishments and it's not just about Derrick, as he'll be the first to tell you, but somebody that had so many accomplishments. Think about this, that the little things that we take for granted because we've acclimated, we've assimilated into a situation or environment in such a way. 00;48;21;19 - 00;48;40;28 We're now we're comfortable because we know the ropes, we know how to navigate, we get it, we can see it. Other people coming in there that present themselves to be as comfortable. Sometimes aren't. And so we have to understand these things in a way that we can come to their level, whether it's up, down side, it doesn't matter. 00;48;40;28 - 00;48;59;22 But we have to meet each other at the level we'll say the lowest common and on the lowest point that we can meet to be common with each other and have a connection and then go from there. If you if you choose to do it differently, there's a risk. We won't get into that now. But it's just an understanding, right? 00;48;59;22 - 00;49;23;26 There's there's things that people do and go through that don't always give you the real story. So. So now you're I mean, you're coming from 27 years into a situation where it's two components. I'm oversimplifying a two components. It's a life change and a career change. But then you add the life change with the family component to where there's four in your family. 00;49;23;26 - 00;49;48;12 Aside from you, you got Malika and your three daughters plus you. They're all going through their stuff too. And as a provider, somebody that's been in control or a command, if you will, of situations and environments, now you're having to navigate that also their transition. How did that go that, you know, people take for granted the transition that the family. 00;49;48;14 - 00;50;21;24 But is is a big thing it was where why they wanted settle down eventually they had to move again. They had to move again. Well, it was like, wow, we're not packing up. We're not going to be moving every three years. That was strange. Why They thought they wanted to settle down. It became apparent they don't like the packing part, but they like the the the newness that was next, the meeting, new people. 00;50;21;26 - 00;50;52;03 And they realized that is not going to be there. And it's funny, my oldest daughter actually came, told me she like that, think I made a mistake. My What do you mean she like me telling you to stay here? Actually took away friends for my youngest daughter. Might explain it to me. She like because I have friends that I met when I was in elementary school in South Carolina, that we are friends now and made a move to Germany everything. 00;50;52;03 - 00;51;14;24 And we're still friends. She's like, I think I robbed her of that stuff. Yeah, you just decrease the pool. You didn't. Robert Easily decrease the pool. That's all you did. Well, it was just funny to see a metal circle of the family. People don't think about that. It's a mental process for the family as well, because not only have I lived it, they've lived the life. 00;51;14;24 - 00;51;41;05 We were 20, what, 24 years? She, you know, my oldest are 24. She lived their life. So it was a big thing for her, I bet. And the strength, the strength that comes from that that we're not talking about. But what you're saying is the bond that's formed for your daughter, you can come to you and talk to you about, that for your family to come to you and talk about that, that strengthens it, That forges it now and solidifies it. 00;51;41;07 - 00;52;03;15 It could easily go sideways. But that's part of the complexity. It's the it's the constant thinking about how others are impacted by decisions we make for ourselves when that seems to have been the main motivator for change in the past in the first place. But it goes to show the resiliency and the growth of the children as well. 00;52;03;17 - 00;52;32;25 So yeah, and I imagine because you had mentioned it, you're still going through it. I imagine they are as well. Yeah. Yes, they are. I mean, because, you know, the youngest, my youngest daughter, she like dad. Well, I like maybe we should have moved. So it made the change for them as well. It did. You know, like going on simple things like being on base, like, hey, I want to make nice with her. 00;52;32;25 - 00;52;56;20 We're not going on base. It just is not there is not an everyday thing is not a part. You know why I'm still a marine, You know, once a marine, always marine is is still not there. I'm not in uniform, is a is a different mentality. So it's a change for everyone. Yep. Yep. And they have a good network set up. 00;52;56;23 - 00;53;21;20 They do. And I would tell you between their friends and, you know, Malika does a good job of making sure that they're connected. But also I will say one thing, one thing we did, Malika made sure each of the girls went to go see mental health as we transition. So she was very, you know, making sure that they had that aspect which has helped. 00;53;21;27 - 00;53;47;09 And I would employ everyone to do it not only for the service member as follows, but think about the children as well, because I've seen they made a difference. I'm glad you said that because that's what we can impact that all day too, because that's a delicate balance. Also, when people say, I don't need it, how do you force how do you force what you know is better for them on a and because if it's them not inviting it, then it's resistance and now it's not necessarily the same. 00;53;47;09 - 00;54;07;14 So that's that's a challenge in itself. So that I'm glad I'm glad to hear that you mentioned it not only you mentioned it, but that it's working. So yeah, I would tell you. So it goes back when you talk about early, how full circle high impact to my career I will never forget Sergeant Major, the Marine Corps. Carlton Kent. 00;54;07;14 - 00;54;34;16 At the time when I was working for the commoner, when when the sergeant major, the Marine Corps, the senior enlisted in the Marine Corps say, listen, make sure you take time to go get Mitchell help to free you. My and understand things that matter. Did not realize how leading Marines that hearing him say that was going to impact me and the mental health aspect. 00;54;34;23 - 00;54;57;17 So again like you said this whole thing full are going to see those little nuggets in it. I didn't see it until later on in my career how that was going to impact, how I live there, how I took care of my family. Yeah, that's a whole separate conversation. But you know, that hurts like this just brings the fact and we'll probably leave it here and then move on. 00;54;57;17 - 00;55;18;25 But when you when you are present, you pay more attention to things that are happening and there's always something happening. But when you are present, you're able to see things that you normally wouldn't have if you're paying attention. So your situational awareness is the key and on the things that matter at the moment. But you may not never know, you may not ever know. 00;55;18;25 - 00;55;42;00 You'll need later. So just absorb it. That's key because the recall is going to indicate something later. It's going to flip a switch for you to be realized. Oh, now I know how to apply it 100%. So. All right. So now you're it's there. And so let's let's fast let's fast forward because it gets good here, right? So Derrick and I are talking because the conversation that we had. 00;55;42;02 - 00;56;00;28 So one congratulations. Then you transition the beginning of your transition. I know you're still going through it and your family is still going through it, you know, and appreciate Milligan and the whole family going through all of that stuff with you. And it's a process and glad to have you in family. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me here. 00;56;01;00 - 00;56;39;20 Well, it's good conversation. So here comes Derrick October, and he's asking questions. So background for me for the moment, which is the base of this conversation outside of learn more about Derrick as he comes into into the community. So as the within Oracle, there's communities, the military affiliated community is maybe military affiliated, veteran employee network. Well, the structure of it is there's a board, a national board that is a centralized group of leaders that come together with specific responsibilities and it's simulating that of, you know, your shops, right. 00;56;39;20 - 00;57;14;24 If your your shops, your G shops, wherever you shop. So it's indicative of the responsibilities that make up some components that equate to how are we going to think about things, how we're going to execute things, and then how we're going to communicate those things. And I'm oversimplifying it, but within Maven, there's the board as a chair of the board, like the position that I'm handing off to Derek through the nomination process that he's earned is where we get to that part is the beginning of our conversations where he has interest and he's engaging, He's showing up every day. 00;57;14;24 - 00;57;41;24 He has specific energy that is very unique in the way that he's wanting to do things and learn things. And so when I when I said earlier about the continuity of as a young Marine, having a curiosity, going through the experiences and building his base and then wanting to get into the next position of influence that allows him to not only grow and mature as an individual, but extend the reach and have more influence in other areas. 00;57;41;24 - 00;58;01;28 That broadens the scope of impact. Here he comes in and he's asking questions. I didn't know anything about him. I know he was in the Marines. But over the next several weeks leading up to Veterans Day, his interests become very intentional and there's no motive behind it other than he's just wanting to know the details because he's new. 00;58;02;01 - 00;58;26;13 And it was a reminder for me as as somebody that's been here, ironically, 27 years, you know, he comes in and said, was it September, August 95, one time? Yep. Yeah. And I got out in December 95. So two ships, I'm getting out and he's getting in and I come to Oracle for 27 years that he's in the Marines for 27 years. 00;58;26;15 - 00;58;48;23 A lot of parallels in that universe is small here. But the idea then is in my in the terms that a board member has a chair to lead to lead this community, my term was coming up. And so I started to think about the transition plan, which all of us should in any position that we have, who's going to be the successor? 00;58;48;25 - 00;59;15;09 And I didn't know it then. It's not in my charge to pick, but only to recommend and it's based off of who at that moment, at that time is going to carry the torch or the guide on, if you will, for the betterment of the community. And so Derek's curiosity, his energy, his ambition, his passion, all of that stuff shines through the the things that he was dealing with as he's transitioning. 00;59;15;09 - 00;59;49;15 You never saw it come collect. I don't know about calm. I mean, we're going to have I say calm, but go ahead and say it every day. We'll say composed. Yeah, he's professional, but he's got a lot of energy, a lot of a lot of line of sight into the things that he's recognizing from the words that are being used to describe the situations, how we've done it in the past, what our mission is, what our vision is, how we play a part in the overarching strategy of not only the company, diversity, inclusion, the community, what are the priorities, how do we navigate? 00;59;49;15 - 01;00;21;19 How do I get basically he's replicating the things that he did growing up to learn the base of information, to build a foundation of knowledge that allows him to be more effective, more strategic, more intentional. He did that. He got nominated to change, to take over this this chair position. Congratulations on that. Thank you, sir. This conversation is is a lot of things, but it's also to give Derek a platform at the moment, not for the transition. 01;00;21;19 - 01;00;46;21 That's That's less the point. But the fact is that for whatever value Maven can carry into the community and the company, Derek is taking it from here. And so what we want to do now is give him the opportunity. Derek give you the opportunity to talk about what are we doing, when are we doing it, and how do you see us playing a much larger part in serving our community? 01;00;46;23 - 01;01;21;09 Well, first of all, I appreciate that. I appreciate it. I'm humbled to be selected. But before we talk about that, let's not brush over what you've done and the people before you. Chris, you've laid a foundation for the MAVEN organization, and that is not to be brushed over. And I say that because that's one of the things that truly drew me in that I have we have our organization here inside the company that says, Hey, look, we're for you. 01;01;21;09 - 01;01;36;28 We're we're a home for you work place where you can continue to serve with my weight. How can I be a part of that? And then to get it and to be able to talk with you or not come to you everyday. Because I know you're like, Who's this guy slacking me every day? What do. What are you talking about? 01;01;37;00 - 01;02;05;24 Well, why do you have questions? But like you said, I need to understand what this organization brought in the platform. You have worked with the leadership in Oracle to build for veterans and their families. Brother, we owe you a great debt. I truly appreciate what you have built here for the organization and for the veterans themselves. So truly appreciate it. 01;02;05;26 - 01;02;42;05 Yeah, I appreciate that. And yeah, so we'll do some shout outs then. Let's do this. So Geoff Rollins, Catherine Miller, Ramsey Sharif, John Casey, Bill Rocket, Elish Nolan, those are names of individuals that when we stood up Maven in 2015, Veterans Day 2015, it built a platform for us to be able to understand how we can extend our reach and bring people together to talk about being intentional, being focused, being like minded on needs, and then be able to represent that community through our actions. 01;02;42;08 - 01;03;14;02 So I appreciate you taking a minute. There's a no, it is important because again, we come from a military culture that our history is important to us and that leads us to my next thing about Maven. Maven is a home for us who have similar backgrounds where we could talk about things. And I will tell you, that's one of the key things for me when I engage with Maven, when I put a slack in there about, Oh, is that we get anybody could do the same thing. 01;03;14;02 - 01;03;55;26 Bri but do we get we can never to say to people, have you all understood what that meant? Wow, I love my civilian friends, they don't get the gist of what that's like not to have a weekend, say, debrief with Dexter, make it happen. If you let the troops go out with a weekend safety brief. So again, that for those of you listening out there, having that that security blanket, a maven to remind you a ground you some time on where you come from is important and for Oracle to allow us to have that platform makes us more productive employees. 01;03;55;26 - 01;04;29;05 And I'm glad that the organization sees the parallel in having that. So yeah, me too, because that with David Cross as the executive sponsor, you know, he and I and, you know, being able to have this even this podcast is, is an example of the support that we've been provided to allow us to, to do things that we're trying to do to extend the reach because it's it's about that one person that somewhere remote that's needing a little bit of something and you don't know what it is or when it's going to happen. 01;04;29;07 - 01;04;45;04 We're just trying to we're just trying to find all these different ways that to have an impact. And so, you know, it's the idea that we can do that. Now, there's also the community we talked about, and then I'll give it back to you. Is it it's a lot of support goes into it, a lot of effort goes into it. 01;04;45;04 - 01;05;07;04 So there's leaving out a ton of names. But I'm acknowledging anybody that's ever been a part of it. I'm thinking about you and I have a list, you know, to honor what we're trying to do here. That's exactly the what you just said is the impact that we want it. We want somebody coming in, being able to see it for what it is, appreciate it for what it is, and some of it's parity. 01;05;07;04 - 01;05;33;01 Right. The safety briefs and and whatnot. And it's those little nostalgic things that we can on that helps us kind of remember what's good in sometimes, you know reflect on the other components that matter more of the teammates that we've had and the experiences that we've shared. So that is what we're trying to achieve and that's key. So I will tell you as we go forward, because is going to be is going to be crucial. 01;05;33;01 - 01;05;56;15 So you and the team have managed as through COVID that that is no easy feat. You managed just to Kobe. But as we lean forward into the next F-1, going back to the hubs and everything and making sure that we get back in to the seats as manager and being part of their lines of business. And the business strategy is going to be key for MAVEN. 01;05;56;19 - 01;06;25;10 So again, that that's part of our goal as it I'm touching something that's key for us as we transition. So I'm not going to sit here and pillory it all. But being part of the lines of business as we transition to that strategy. Maven is going to help the organization into that. Again, that whole transition, you transition from the military world to the civilian world and to your see them or who Maven is going to help you with that. 01;06;25;10 - 01;06;53;13 Hey, we've been afar in this COVID environment transitioning back into disease. We're going to help everybody back into it and Maven is going to be a big part of that. So again, you've been able to manage that and we're going to help that by being more enriching with our in-person engagement. So we started off with the Veterans Day initiative with a lot of in-person Maven made sure that we hey, we sponsor in-person engagement because that eyeball contact is important. 01;06;53;18 - 01;07;22;07 Again, make a better person for the individual, which always trends translates back to a better business process. So that's key because everything Maven does, while we support the individual, it all translate back to a better business process for Oracle writ large. And with that, we're moving from a veteran ready organization. So we're more veteran focused. So right now Oracle is great. 01;07;22;09 - 01;07;47;04 What we do for veterans is point one, but we're taking it to the next level. We've intentional about our engagement with veterans, with our veteran outreach in our veteran initiatives, very intentional about that. And so that goes to our last thing that we wanted for outcome for this year is make sure that we support the veteran community needs on that transition process, know the veteran in the spouse. 01;07;47;06 - 01;08;12;20 So, you know, you wanted to get aware, hey, that's what we are. We're taking that foundation. You you've laid down and we're now building a house on it for veterans inside or what? That makes sense. It does now then. And it's it's high level, of course. And you're going to see what we hope to do is use less words and walk the walk by the actions. 01;08;12;21 - 01;08;48;03 And so setting the example through the actions. So a lot of the things that will say Derek talked about earlier is what what he learned and what he became most connected to is he's going to say what he's going to do and he's going to do what he says. This is the idea, very high level strategic oversight on what the plan is and how we're going to drive impact and be, you know, be more effective for the current scenario, whether it's what the company is trying to do or whether the, you know, the military is trying to do, how we can become a more integral part in the process of changing your trajectory, whether it's 01;08;48;03 - 01;09;11;14 a military transition or a career transition, It will be the stability that you can turn to as a resource without a doubt. And I use the word will, because there's no doubt in what we're trying to do is not even the question is not even a question about what I tell people. What we're going to do is we're going to make our video match our audio. 01;09;11;18 - 01;09;32;06 We're saying that. So, hey, guess what? Now you're you're going to see you're going to see it play out right in front of you. So we want the video to match the audio. Well said. Okay. So what are some nuggets that we expect to share that people can look out for as we get ready to close the conversation? 01;09;32;09 - 01;09;58;01 So something you can look for for us is the three pillars. We talk about the business line and let's let's take it from there as we close out. So I'm going to business now. We're going to look for veteran leadership opportunities inside of Oracle. So we are going to strengthen that mentorship program. The Co-Chair Stop paper is definitely working along with you, Kris. 01;09;58;08 - 01;10;27;06 You are going to work on that veteran mentorship program inside of Oracle along with DNI, so you can get ready to see that from the employee perspective. When we look internal, we're going to make sure that we have a partner that you had an initiative that you started a while back, and I want to take that and pick that back up and make sure that we have mentors inside of Maven to support Oracle again, while I landed. 01;10;27;06 - 01;10;57;21 Well, I probably could have been a whole lot better had I had a mentor early inside of Oracle. So one thing you start, I want to pick that back up and definitely massage that since we are back in person moving back into the office. I think that's going to be key. And then the last bullet that community focused, making sure that those veteran that are making transitions are from to retirement or career change. 01;10;57;21 - 01;11;24;02 Like you said, they have a place they know our landing pages and everything with veteran, the recruiting is getting better. They now have a target in place to land that. So those are the three things along those three pillars that you can see coming forward with us. Nice. And we can we can go deep and down. But I want to give you a wave top because so much inside of those. 01;11;24;05 - 01;11;44;00 Yep. No, I think this will be moving forward. This is going to be a regular occurrence where you and I will get together with David to join us, time permitting. It's just a matter of, you know, as we go through, it will build a communications plan that will include a status check. You know, here's what we did. Here's what we're going to do on top of what we just accomplished. 01;11;44;00 - 01;12;02;19 And so I think that's a regular check in with the community just to see what's what's going on. And I like that. I like the whole me and and the business, the kind of work I do. Just like you say. You go do what we ate. I'm good with that audio with the video, so only play it back. 01;12;02;22 - 01;12;31;15 Yep. Hey, I like it. Hold me accountable. I like your brother. Good. All right. So appreciate you having time. Come on, Derek. It's a matter of you're trying to establish for what's needed through your experience. I is an exciting phase of where we are. I'm looking forward to it. But I do know you're also busy, so I appreciate you taking time to be able to come on here and share this. 01;12;31;18 - 01;12;56;28 Any parting words? First of all, I appreciate you know, I'm glad I was able to make time. The one thing I can say in this this has been resident throughout. Ask for help if you need help, actually help. Again, Nathan is not just for work related things. I mean, man, there's so many people we do help do things in life, reach out. 01;12;56;28 - 01;13;17;26 We're community. And I, I got to say that just actually help. I do it every day and that's what I want to leave everybody with. Just think about that. Ask for help because we're family inside of a family. We're here for you. So we'll leave it at that. Thank you, Derek, so much. And looking forward to everything that's about to come. 01;13;17;29 - 01;13;57;23 Everyone else, thanks for listening. Keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

1
Gold Star Peak, Inc. with Kirk Alkire 1:12:47

2 years1:12:47

1:12:47

Kirk shares his story of family, service, and sacrifice and how he honors those through his actions as reminders of his purpose. An avid outdoorsman from early on, Kirk’s life choices brought him many memorable moments with his family that included seeing some amazing places while assigned to a few of the Army’s most storied units. These experiences also included significant and tragic events that eventually led to his ultimate mission of creating an organization committed to serving the gold star community by bringing people together as a way of healing, remembering, and honoring the memory of the fallen. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. - https://www.goldstarpeak.org/ - info@goldstarpeak.org - scholarships@goldstarpeak.org…

MAVEN

1
Values, Self Awareness, Support - Danny Santos: Marine Veteran and The Honor Foundation Fellow 1:23:27

2 years1:23:27

1:23:27

Danny and I talk about how his family and upbringing forged his values and resiliency to respond to challenges in ways that continued to shape his mindset and leadership qualities. A lifelong learner, Danny shares how he has further developed his ability to self-actualize while embracing those around him who provide the preferred support and encourage growth and a positive approach that keeps him moving forward as he faces what life brings. Emphasizing self-care, Danny also links ways to help us help ourselves as we put out to help others before, during, and after separating from the military. We’ve said before and we’ll say it again, take the time to know yourself well, surround yourself with those who are supportive, and find resources to help you move forward. https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannysantos323/ https://www.honor.org/ https://spiritofamerica.org/…

MAVEN

1
Oracle's Sarah Elkhart: Sr. Technical Program Manager and Air Force veteran 43:36

2 years43:36

43:36

Of the many transferrable skills veterans carry with them when separating from service, it may be said that being adaptable will be one of the most important skills developed and leveraged when finding our way on our path. In this episode, we cover a lot of ground that highlights how this important trait offers us all an opportunity to see what people are made of and how it helps being selected into roles where one may not have otherwise been noticed. Add this with putting effort into socializing and mentorship and you will experience the key ingredients to success. One thing is for sure, we’ve said before and we’ll say it again, know yourself well and find resources to help you move forward. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahelkhart/ - https://www.oracle.com/veterans…

MAVEN

1
Oracle NetSuite's Paola Castillo: Functional Consultant and Air Force Veteran 52:24

2 years52:24

52:24

Bravery, courage, and resilience are built from experiences that we all face in our own way. What makes us unique is how we respond and use what we learn from life’s lessons. Paola, or Lala as she is known within her circle, opens up about how her life’s experiences have strengthened her self-awareness and given her reason to keep moving forward by sharing, asking for help, and paying it forward using her purpose and passion as the foundation. Whether it is in her personal life or within her professional career, Lala demonstrates how bringing your authentic self into all areas of your life offers others simplicity and a natural way of connecting. One thing is for sure, you are not alone and this episode is for anyone looking for proof that there is light we can all find. Just ask. Website: https://paolanicole.co/ Podcast - Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-that-journey-for-us/id1581554312 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2WGCACGmZUbqNSVtLeksHp?si=cAVjt-jTRmW7dZMIv64b8w&nd=1…

MAVEN

1
Oracle's Milan Patel: Senior Vice President and Air Force Veteran 52:42

2 years52:42

52:42

After joining the Air Force and the FBI, Milan shares details and lessons learned from service, his transition, and his journey to the private sector. You ever wonder how your experience may compare to others and whether or not the choices you’re faced with making have been already paved by someone else? Life happens and when the opportunity to change presents itself at those inflection points, you need to have the right mindset and skills to accept the challenge with everything you’ve got. So what does it take? How do you add value? What do you demonstrate that contributes to doing what’s needed before you’re told? We get into the good stuff in this one. So, take a listen as we dig deep into the secret sauce of being a valuable part of a team.…

MAVEN

1
Reflection and Action 45:54

2 years45:54

45:54

The new year can be an excellent opportunity to reflect and reassess where you want to be and how to get there. This episode was a fun one where David and I talk through a few ways to help keep it simple for kicking the year off right. From thinking critically about what you need to do, mapping out a plan that serves as a guide, to then being prepared to act, these three simple considerations come with a few components and we cover some solid ones in this episode. So take a listen and as always, feedback is welcome! You may connect with David on Twitter at mrdbcross and you can always find me on LinkedIn.…

MAVEN

1
Readiness and Complacency 58:45

2 years58:45

58:45

Where preparation meets opportunity and what it takes to remain agile during change. You can be lucky or you can be intentional. Either way, putting yourself in the best possible situation to survive and thrive means remaining aware, taking action, and remembering to focus on what you can control. You’ve heard this before. It starts with taking personal inventory, surrounding yourself with others who are your champions and want the best for you, then learning how to be a better communicator to invite candid dialogue and learn what others consider to be important to bring value.…

MAVEN

1
Generations of Service - Veterans Day Episode 1:10:17

2 years1:10:17

1:10:17

In honor of Veterans Day, in this episode we are joined by several Oracle employees who are veterans from different eras of service. From the 70’s through the 2000’s, we brought them together to share their experiences of service. We talked about a few of the things that are still the same as well as the many changes that occurred between each era. What became clear is we all express our passion and purpose as we ventured down the path of paying forward. This episode will hopefully speak for itself. A warm thank you to our guests: Gene Griffe: USMC 77-98 and 04. Senior Manager, Federal Security Programs & Facilities Security Officer Rik Schneider: USN 88-97. Principal Member of Technical Staff Dean Bradley: USMC 86-91. Principal Sales Consultant David Cross: USN 91-96. MAVEN Executive Sponsor and SVP SaaS Chief Information Security Officer Zuzana Vankova: USAF 07-15. Staff Sales Consultant…

MAVEN

1
Be The Right Talent 1:20:38

2 years1:20:38

1:20:38

In this episode, I’m joined by co-host, David Cross and guest, Mindy Jaffar, Oracle’s Military Talent Recruiting Program Manager. Looking for opportunities where we fit best can be a taxing process. There are a few steps we can take to help prepare all of us to be a match. What started as an idea to share ways of finding the right talent, you’ll hear us lay the groundwork of how to BE the right talent. And this goes both ways – job seekers and hiring managers. Hear our viewpoints and note some pro-tips to consider when looking to have the right conversations that will hopefully set you up for success. So, take a listen as we get back to basics and encourage a people-focused approach to career decisions as we continue the mission to serve. And be sure to view the additional information in the episode description.…

MAVEN

1
Oracle NetSuite's Heather Miller: GVP Consulting and Veteran Affiliated Advocate 48:36

2 years48:36

48:36

Oracle NetSuite’s, Heather Miller, is Group Vice President for Global Customer Success. Responsible for driving business initiatives that support consulting and enablement, Heather is also a huge advocate and influence for creating pathways to find the right talent using a programmatic approach. Of the many programs NetSuite offers to do just that, hear how SuiteVets intentionally focuses on our military veteran affiliated community and why it is so successful. What are the sought-after skills and candidate potential to consider? Listen in and find out as we uncover the basics while we continue the mission to serve.…

MAVEN

1
Boots to Books with Peter Cline 1:11:17

2 years1:11:17

1:11:17

In this episode, Chris Spencer sits with Peter Cline - Army veteran and President and Founder of Boots to Books. Boots to Books is a nonprofit organization founded to help veterans find their next step by providing a number of services that connect them to valuable skill-development and employment resources. Peter and I dive into a few layers of how a service member may prepare ahead of time to map their journey. We also discuss how we should remember the traits and skills we already have, incorporate self-realization to be honest with ourselves, then apply what you learn and as you grow. - https://boots2books.com/ - https://bootstobooks.vfairs.com/…

MAVEN

1
Informal Leadership - The Role We Play 50:31

2 years50:31

50:31

In this episode I am joined by our co-host, David Cross, Oracle SVP and SaaS Chief Information Security Officer. David and I cover a few hot topics surrounding leadership – specifically informal leaders and the role we play. As I’m sure we all have experienced good leaders who are or were effective in helping us be better, we also have seen or heard of those leaders who sometimes come up short is one or more areas. David and I talk about some of the common things that are sometimes overlooked or not leveraged as we interact with others and this may serve as a reminder for many or something one has not yet realized or considered to be a useful tool to have in ready. One thing is for sure, we should bring value to the experience of others and hopefully this episode will do that for you. We also introduce a few books to serve as resources in case anyone is interested in learning more in their quest for knowledge…we’re only scraping the surface! As always, feedback is welcome and you may connect with David on Twitter at mrdbcross and you can always find me on linked in.…

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The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About

The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About

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The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About

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